Roland Martin vs. Dr. Umar Johnson

[semi-auto-mato]

credentials matter at times. in this case the only time his credentials matter is when we are talking about him building/starting a school. he needs to be board certified so that the education these young black men receive is recognized when they try to get into college or the workforce.

I don't always agree with what Dr. Umar says. I said early on that sometimes he comes across as sheisty. the way he plays with words and dodges some of the questions doesn't always sit well with me. I will listen to him though because he makes some good points at times and some stuff I agree with him on. Even if I don't agree with him I at least want to hear his reasoning. that's how it's suppose to go.

ask urself whats more important...the message or the messenger?

 

[D. Morgan]

credentials matter at times. in this case the only time his credentials matter is when we are talking about him building/starting a school. he needs to be board certified so that the education these young black men receive is recognized when they try to get into college or the workforce.

I don't always agree with what Dr. Umar says. I said early on that sometimes he comes across as sheisty. the way he plays with words and dodges some of the questions doesn't always sit well with me. I will listen to him though because he makes some good points at times and some stuff I agree with him on. Even if I don't agree with him I at least want to hear his reasoning. that's how it's suppose to go.

ask urself whats more important...the message or the messenger?

From what I've seen from most on this site the answer would be the messenger.

 

[JokerzWyld]

Every thread about Umar Johnson is exactly the same. It's just a bunch of stupid niggaz arguing about shit they don't know and have no interest learning.

Then there are the pseudo-journalistic posts that are filled with omissions, the videos of opinions from nobodies, etc. about a man who doesn't matter. I wish y'all fought racism this hard.

 

[Koltrain]

Why is this thread title worded like that? Roland didn't face off with UJ. Is that some sort of clickbait tactic?

Clickbait tactic? Lol, I'm not getting paid to post threads lol... To me, it's roland vs Umar because Roland set Umar up to be "dismantled" by that coon panel. The focus of the interview wasn't to hear Umar out.. It was solely to challenge his views.

Saying it was Roland vs Umar is misleading the truth, tho. His debate was with Roland's panelists. Roland only mediated and stepped in when the word "coon" got thrown around by UJ.

The title doesn't tell the right story, and makes it seem like a shock tactic.

Who's show is it?

Who was UJ mostly referring to? Whose show it actually is as is irrelevant. He could've did that shit on Bill Maher's show for all it matters.

The first ten minutes was Roland bringing up all points about Umar that are questionable..plus the video is titled that...

Take it how you will, no shock intended tho. If I wanted shock, I would've labelled it with the ic "coon" buzzword.

 

[blackrain]

They'd rather discuss who has the more robust alphabet soup then, the issues Umar has put on the table. Talk about worthless nonsense.

How does it keep missing ya'll that Umar is using those credentials to declare himself an authority to speak on said topics? If he didn't tout himself having a PHD nobody would bring it up...but he does so it's not wrong if somebody asks for proof of said degree and he can't produce to then ask "Well what else is he lying about"?

 

[blackrain]

Maybe the nigga wouldn't be so tense defending his degree if he could prove he actually had a doctorate...niggas really try and defend him by just brushing over that shit. The man is trying to start a school and ya'll just want to skip over all evidence that has been found pointing to him lying about his level of education?

@2stepz_ahead Everytime the topic of calling someone out for being wrong you go back to the same retort of "Well who is right all fo the time" or "Why does someone have to be perfect in order for you to listen"...Do you not get that perfection isnt' the goal but being accurate is? You stay giving people passes for talking nonsense solely based on "Well, ain't nobody perfect"...no shit...but it ain't a bad thing to get corrected when you're wrong. Especially when you're in certain positions it's definitely to your benefit.

because......the message always gets lost

case and point...alof are mentally fukked up on the grand scheme. they have to correct themselves. the have to listen and learn from others. others that will their own shit...but it not about the shit you can find on them but taking the message they was trying to give without saying you can not tell me because....

one of my mentors was a alcoholic.....that didnt mean he couldnt teach me about business. i learned alot. he spoke about why he drinks like he does. it was none of my business . so that shouldnt stop the message but i could offer advice about alcoholism that i learned from family members.

if you cant allow mistakes from others....you are assuming you are perfect and can teach.

everything dont need to be called out when the problem is much bigger than the person.

do i really need marriage advice from him? no..thats not im there for. if he has a problem respecting me for who i married....thats on him. im not going to prove to him who i fukk wont stop my work because my work wont stop.

I'm all for allowing people to make mistakes. That's how you learn. What you seem to be against though is calling people out and correcting them for making mistakes. That leads to nowhere but repeating the same mistakes. The message doesn't get lost because someone is imperfect. The message gets lost when that person can't acknowledge or is constantly given a pass for their mistakes and never learning from them. That's what you constantly seem to miss. And no every little thing shouldn't be called out but when someone who not only bills themselves as an educator but also wants to start a school has some funny shit on their own educational resume what sense would it make to just brush over that like its a small thing?

So, stop making the mistake of bringing up lame and trivial points that Umar has addressed year in and year out.

He cant even address where the money he collected went and last time he got called out on it started making memes about the person who asked him...this dude is not all y'all think he is. Niggas too easily drawn in by a "fuck the white man" stance. Just as gullible as the church folks you criticize

Care to support your dishonesty by quoting Umar saying "fuck the white man"?

It's Umar's detractors that believe him to be something more then what he is.

Umar is simply a Black man bringing issues and information to the table that affect Blacks todays and in many cases have affected us in the past as well.

I see him same I see Chuck D, Michael Eric Dyson, Cornell West, Wise Intelligent, and Tariq Nasheed to name a few. I don't have to agree with all of their ideas. But I am fully supporting a Black man that is willing to bring our issues to the forefront.. Yall keep worrying about trivial bullshit like degrees though, and money which, you have given none of.

You know that was not meant literally...and again Umar is the one touting these credentials. Nobody asked him to, he's doing it on his own. You don't need a college degree to talk about the things he does, but he uses the credentials and respect that comes with said degrees to say that people should take him more seriously when he does speak. Or else he wouldn't be so bent on people calling him "doctor" or claiming he's the world's most requested scholar. Clearly those titles matter to him. Nothing wrong with support, but blind support is always dangerous. Nigga out here collecting hundreds of thousands yet it's a bad thing to ask where the money is going? That's trivial? To make sure somebody is going to do what they said they will?

 

[blackrain]

credentials matter at times. in this case the only time his credentials matter is when we are talking about him building/starting a school. he needs to be board certified so that the education these young black men receive is recognized when they try to get into college or the workforce.

I don't always agree with what Dr. Umar says. I said early on that sometimes he comes across as sheisty. the way he plays with words and dodges some of the questions doesn't always sit well with me. I will listen to him though because he makes some good points at times and some stuff I agree with him on. Even if I don't agree with him I at least want to hear his reasoning. that's how it's suppose to go.

ask urself whats more important...the message or the messenger?

They can both be equally as important

 

[The Lonious Monk]

If we were living in the 60's niggas would've been like "why should we listen to Malcolm X, he was a criminal he was a pimp, he used to date white women, anybody that listens to him is a sheep, he's a fake Muslim"

True, but Malcolm himself also revised his stance and message in time. So you can't say people were wrong to criticize him, when in the end he had some of the same criticisms for himself.

 

[kzzl]

If we were living in the 60's niggas would've been like "why should we listen to Malcolm X, he was a criminal he was a pimp, he used to date white women, anybody that listens to him is a sheep, he's a fake Muslim"

This is what i was trying to get at.

Ill admit Umar wasnt the best chair to stand on when making this point, but when niggas are ready to go at Stevie Wonder for nothing, who is?

 

[NoCompetition]

If we were living in the 60's niggas would've been like "why should we listen to Malcolm X, he was a criminal he was a pimp, he used to date white women, anybody that listens to him is a sheep, he's a fake Muslim"

Ultimately though this guy has to stand on his own. Not deflecting to Hillary or Bill Maher as you did earlier. They have nothing to do with this. Why even go in that direction? Thats literally not connected. Maybe this is a glimpse into the mentality of those who are subsceptible to this type of thing. Change the subject and go in tangeants and just go, dont worry about connecting dots and making sense. Play the game And most of all...get their money. Emotional manipulations work good for that not reality. And Malcolm's credentials are not Umar Johnson's. People have pointed out various real inaccuracies, vagueness, flaws, and nonsensical positions he has taken. Its not about making up points its just seeing whats there. There is a lot of foolery.

 

[5th Letter]

If we were living in the 60's niggas would've been like "why should we listen to Malcolm X, he was a criminal he was a pimp, he used to date white women, anybody that listens to him is a sheep, he's a fake Muslim"

True, but Malcolm himself also revised his stance and message in time. So you can't say people were wrong to criticize him, when in the end he had some of the same criticisms for himself.

Most of y'all arguments are about his degrees and about money for his school. How does any of that make his points invalid? Just like bringing up Malcolm's past, it's a deflection tactic and a way to discredit. That's my point.

 

[5th Letter]

If we were living in the 60's niggas would've been like "why should we listen to Malcolm X, he was a criminal he was a pimp, he used to date white women, anybody that listens to him is a sheep, he's a fake Muslim"

Ultimately though this guy has to stand on his own. Not deflecting to Hillary or Bill Maher as you did earlier. They have nothing to do with this. Why even go in that direction? Thats literally not connected. Maybe this is a glimpse into the mentality of those who are subsceptible to this type of thing. Change the subject and go in tangeants and just go, dont worry about connecting dots and making sense. Play the game And most of all...get their money. Emotional manipulations work good for that not reality. And Malcolm's credentials are not Umar Johnson's. People have pointed out various real inaccuracies, vagueness, flaws, and nonsensical positions he has taken. Its not about making up points its just seeing whats there. There is a lot of foolery.

The same reason why those people on the panel defelected into his lineage and his degrees and money for his school, they had a issue with him and used those things to deflect and discredit and y'all are in here doing the same. Y'all are hypocrites shit on Umar but give passes to others that y'all like. Either be consistent or shut the fuck up.

 

[NoCompetition]

If we were living in the 60's niggas would've been like "why should we listen to Malcolm X, he was a criminal he was a pimp, he used to date white women, anybody that listens to him is a sheep, he's a fake Muslim"

Ultimately though this guy has to stand on his own. Not deflecting to Hillary or Bill Maher as you did earlier. They have nothing to do with this. Why even go in that direction? Thats literally not connected. Maybe this is a glimpse into the mentality of those who are subsceptible to this type of thing. Change the subject and go in tangeants and just go, dont worry about connecting dots and making sense. Play the game And most of all...get their money. Emotional manipulations work good for that not reality. And Malcolm's credentials are not Umar Johnson's. People have pointed out various real inaccuracies, vagueness, flaws, and nonsensical positions he has taken. Its not about making up points its just seeing whats there. There is a lot of foolery.

The same reason why those people on the panel defelected into his lineage and his degrees and money for his school, they had a issue with him and used those things to deflect and discredit and y'all are in here doing the same. Y'all are hypocrites shit on Umar but give passes to others that y'all like. Either be consistent or shut the fuck up.

I aint deflect to nobody. I talked about flaws in the political rhetoric and why these dude's dont properly take into account the realities of living in the actual society we live in. And why their rhetoric is incomplete, immature, and doesnt really make sense. As have others. In depth. But again the info has been presented and thats a good thing. It doesnt help anything to have someone leading people down faulty paths just because they can. Its only right for those who see more to shed light for the ones who dont see. As has been done.

 

[kzzl]

If we were living in the 60's niggas would've been like "why should we listen to Malcolm X, he was a criminal he was a pimp, he used to date white women, anybody that listens to him is a sheep, he's a fake Muslim"

Ultimately though this guy has to stand on his own. Not deflecting to Hillary or Bill Maher as you did earlier. They have nothing to do with this. Why even go in that direction? Thats literally not connected. Maybe this is a glimpse into the mentality of those who are subsceptible to this type of thing. Change the subject and go in tangeants and just go, dont worry about connecting dots and making sense. Play the game And most of all...get their money. Emotional manipulations work good for that not reality. And Malcolm's credentials are not Umar Johnson's. People have pointed out various real inaccuracies, vagueness, flaws, and nonsensical positions he has taken. Its not about making up points its just seeing whats there. There is a lot of foolery.

The same reason why those people on the panel defelected into his lineage and his degrees and money for his school, they had a issue with him and used those things to deflect and discredit and y'all are in here doing the same. Y'all are hypocrites shit on Umar but give passes to others that y'all like. Either be consistent or shut the fuck up.

Speaking specifically of Umars situation, this lack of paperwork will always leave a question mark over his head. Theres no running from that. If Umar was a white supremacist, he'd still need to have that shit.

Had dude not came on the scene with that, itd be different. But since he did, he needs to be consistent as well. If for nothing but to keep his enemy from having it as a weapon to use against him.

 

[5th Letter]

If we were living in the 60's niggas would've been like "why should we listen to Malcolm X, he was a criminal he was a pimp, he used to date white women, anybody that listens to him is a sheep, he's a fake Muslim"

Ultimately though this guy has to stand on his own. Not deflecting to Hillary or Bill Maher as you did earlier. They have nothing to do with this. Why even go in that direction? Thats literally not connected. Maybe this is a glimpse into the mentality of those who are subsceptible to this type of thing. Change the subject and go in tangeants and just go, dont worry about connecting dots and making sense. Play the game And most of all...get their money. Emotional manipulations work good for that not reality. And Malcolm's credentials are not Umar Johnson's. People have pointed out various real inaccuracies, vagueness, flaws, and nonsensical positions he has taken. Its not about making up points its just seeing whats there. There is a lot of foolery.

The same reason why those people on the panel defelected into his lineage and his degrees and money for his school, they had a issue with him and used those things to deflect and discredit and y'all are in here doing the same. Y'all are hypocrites shit on Umar but give passes to others that y'all like. Either be consistent or shut the fuck up.

I aint deflect to nobody. I talked about flaws in the political rhetoric and why these dude's dont properly take into account the realities of living in the actual society we live in. And why their rhetoric is incomplete, immature, and doesnt really make sense. As have others. In depth. But again the info has been presented and thats a good thing. It doesnt help anything to have someone leading people down faulty paths just because they can. Its only right for those who see more to shed light for the ones who dont see. As has been done.

What part of his "rhetoric is incomplete, immature and doesn't really make sense"?

 

[5th Letter]

If we were living in the 60's niggas would've been like "why should we listen to Malcolm X, he was a criminal he was a pimp, he used to date white women, anybody that listens to him is a sheep, he's a fake Muslim"

Ultimately though this guy has to stand on his own. Not deflecting to Hillary or Bill Maher as you did earlier. They have nothing to do with this. Why even go in that direction? Thats literally not connected. Maybe this is a glimpse into the mentality of those who are subsceptible to this type of thing. Change the subject and go in tangeants and just go, dont worry about connecting dots and making sense. Play the game And most of all...get their money. Emotional manipulations work good for that not reality. And Malcolm's credentials are not Umar Johnson's. People have pointed out various real inaccuracies, vagueness, flaws, and nonsensical positions he has taken. Its not about making up points its just seeing whats there. There is a lot of foolery.

The same reason why those people on the panel defelected into his lineage and his degrees and money for his school, they had a issue with him and used those things to deflect and discredit and y'all are in here doing the same. Y'all are hypocrites shit on Umar but give passes to others that y'all like. Either be consistent or shut the fuck up.

Speaking specifically of Umars situation, this lack of paperwork will always leave a question mark over his head. Theres no running from that. If Umar was a white supremacist, he'd still need to have that shit.

Had dude not came on the scene with that, itd be different. But since he did, he needs to be consistent as well. If for nothing but to keep his enemy from having it as a weapon to use against him.

His so called lack of paperwork does not or should it take away from his message and the work he has put in.

 

[bambu]

If we were living in the 60's niggas would've been like "why should we listen to Malcolm X, he was a criminal he was a pimp, he used to date white women, anybody that listens to him is a sheep, he's a fake Muslim"

Ultimately though this guy has to stand on his own. Not deflecting to Hillary or Bill Maher as you did earlier. They have nothing to do with this. Why even go in that direction? Thats literally not connected. Maybe this is a glimpse into the mentality of those who are subsceptible to this type of thing. Change the subject and go in tangeants and just go, dont worry about connecting dots and making sense. Play the game And most of all...get their money. Emotional manipulations work good for that not reality. And Malcolm's credentials are not Umar Johnson's. People have pointed out various real inaccuracies, vagueness, flaws, and nonsensical positions he has taken. Its not about making up points its just seeing whats there. There is a lot of foolery.

The same reason why those people on the panel defelected into his lineage and his degrees and money for his school, they had a issue with him and used those things to deflect and discredit and y'all are in here doing the same. Y'all are hypocrites shit on Umar but give passes to others that y'all like. Either be consistent or shut the fuck up.

Speaking specifically of Umars situation, this lack of paperwork will always leave a question mark over his head. Theres no running from that. If Umar was a white supremacist, he'd still need to have that shit.

Had dude not came on the scene with that, itd be different. But since he did, he needs to be consistent as well. If for nothing but to keep his enemy from having it as a weapon to use against him.

His so called lack of paperwork does not or should it take away from his message and the work he has put in.

No one gets a pass for false flagging a PhD.....

His main point in the interview was that blacks cannot marry white and truly be down for the cause....

Which has been proven as bullshit far before umar was born...

No hate and nothing wrong with being a lecturer.....

But...

What work has he put in....????

 

[lamontbdc]

He was looking into buying ST Paul. Man that shit is in the middle of fucking no where.

 

[blackrain]

If we were living in the 60's niggas would've been like "why should we listen to Malcolm X, he was a criminal he was a pimp, he used to date white women, anybody that listens to him is a sheep, he's a fake Muslim"

True, but Malcolm himself also revised his stance and message in time. So you can't say people were wrong to criticize him, when in the end he had some of the same criticisms for himself.

Most of y'all arguments are about his degrees and about money for his school. How does any of that make his points invalid? Just like bringing up Malcolm's past, it's a deflection tactic and a way to discredit. That's my point.

That's still a bad comparison. Malcom X actually used his past as a way talking point to tell people what to avoid and how it had his mind fucked up. He used his past as a way to give a foundation to what he would speak on. Same as Umar uses his claims of having a degree to speak on certain things involving the education system. Ya'll have yet to give a good reason to ignore why someone who wants to start a school should be allowed to just bypass any question about their own academic history.

 

[The Lonious Monk]

If we were living in the 60's niggas would've been like "why should we listen to Malcolm X, he was a criminal he was a pimp, he used to date white women, anybody that listens to him is a sheep, he's a fake Muslim"

True, but Malcolm himself also revised his stance and message in time. So you can't say people were wrong to criticize him, when in the end he had some of the same criticisms for himself.

Most of y'all arguments are about his degrees and about money for his school. How does any of that make his points invalid? Just like bringing up Malcolm's past, it's a deflection tactic and a way to discredit. That's my point.

I don't know who ya'll is, but I've never made an argument about his degrees or his money. I've always addressed the points he's made. So the first thing you cats need to do is stop treating everyone who is critical of Umar as if they are the same.

The second thing ya'll need to stop doing is acting like a person's credibility doesn't matter. Again, I believe people should move on from the degree argument, but it's silly to act like a man lying about his credentials isn't pertinent when he's using those credentials as proof that his ideas are valid. When the nigga says he has the expertise to create and run a school, he always leans on his credentials. If those credentials are a lie, then that should throw his expertise into question. So stop throwing that argument out as if it's just fluff. It's not. If you believe them questioning his credentials is unfounded, fine, but honestly Umar himself should have been able to shut it down a long time ago. I got degrees. If people questioned my degrees, it would be as easy as getting my phone and taking pictures of those degrees. He seems to get pissed that people keep harping on this, but doesn't seem to take even the easiest steps towards proving the naysayers wrong.

Bringing up Malcolm's past also wasn't a deflection. You can't say "Forget the white man. Let's build our own" if you are out there chasing white women. That's a legitimate criticism. The difference is Malcom addressed it and denounced his old life. Umar addresses the criticisms but he seems to get defensive and hostile about it, which is understandable when people are coming at you a certain way, but it doesn't make the criticisms unfounded.