Questions and Statements about God...

[The GMW]

Just because people were appointed high priests doesn't mean that they were without sin. Even the high priest were subjected to being put to death. The high priest was responsible not only for everyone else, but also his own. If they don't prepare correctly for the sacrifice, they die.

A priest may well be responsible for himself, but that doesn't change the fact that it makes no sense for him to be responsible for the salvation/damnation of other people, who have no control over his actions. Even if he is motivated to carry out the sacrifice correctly, the fact remains that he is a third party, unrelated to the sinner, who is sacrificing another such third party. The sinner is barely even involved in the whole thing, but if the sacrifice is successful, somehow it earns him forgiveness. What is the point of coming up with a system like that, where the means of earning forgiveness is impersonal and nearly effortless for the sinner himself? Why does there have to be blood, especially innocent blood that means nothing to the sinner?

 

[alissowack]

A priest may well be responsible for himself, but that doesn't change the fact that it makes no sense for him to be responsible for the salvation/damnation of other people, who have no control over his actions. Even if he is motivated to carry out the sacrifice correctly, the fact remains that he is a third party, unrelated to the sinner, who is sacrificing another such third party. The sinner is barely even involved in the whole thing, but if the sacrifice is successful, somehow it earns him forgiveness. What is the point of coming up with a system like that, where the means of earning forgiveness is impersonal and nearly effortless for the sinner himself? Why does there have to be blood, especially innocent blood that means nothing to the sinner?

Sin, according to the Bible, is not just an act of transgression. It is a condition that mankind is in. Before all these sacrifices through Moses, you had Abraham. Sacrifices wasn't implemented in his time. There was the sign of circumcision that showed you belong to God. However, it made people think that because they were circumcised, they didn't have to worry about trangressions; that there was no consequences for the acts of sin. So, Moses comes along and you have the law and the sacrifices.

 

[And Step]

along with the love of truth comes the hatred of the things associated with the flip side.

Elegantly put.

 

[The Lonious Monk]

You guys do realize that murder is defined as the unlawful causing of someone's death. Therefore if you kill someone in a situation that is deemed lawful such as self defense or an enemy combatant in a recognized war, that is not murder.

I think the most twisted commandments in the Bible are "Thou shall not commit murder" and "Thou shall not bear false witness against thy neighbor."

People have translated the first into "Thou shall not kill" which as discussed above is way more general than the original commandment is meant to be taken. In the Bible, God helped his chosen people kill other people so it should be obvious that the commandment isn't meant to be applied to any and all killing.

The second is even worse because it's gone through more stages of oversimplification. People have cut it to "Thou shall not bear false witness" and then outright changed it to "Thou shall not lie." Both lose some of the actual meaning of the commandment. The full commandment basically means that you shouldn't accuse people of things they did not do. In context, the Hebrew had a rudimentary court system and back then there were no video cameras or DNA evidence, so witness tesimony was pretty much the only form of evidence that existed. So you can imagine that people falsely accusing others was a big deal. The commandment is meant to combat that and it's very specific in what it's addressing. If you take out the neighbor part, that makes a difference. I could say I saw a UFO last night when I really didn't. That's bearing false witness to something, but it's not at all what the commandment is talking about. Simplifying it to lying is even worse. If you see a chick that looks a mess but you tell her she looks nice because you want to lift her spirits, that's a lie but it's not even close to what the commandment is talking about.

 

[TX_Made713]

is or is not the commandments written in stone?

 

[And Step]

is or is not the commandments written in stone?

Who said it was written in Stone. Do you know what stone represents?

It's the condition of the hearts of the people who received it. Hard hearted and Stiff necked.

You put rules and restrictions on your child so he doesn't harm himself due to his lack of experience, self control, and knowledge. As they grow older, and understanding comes, you don't need to lay down restrictions because they are mature.

So it is and it isn't.

 

[TX_Made713]

it isn't.

sums it up, so your saying god only stands by his laws when he wants to.

the laws in the court are just that, there is no "well you cant speed UNLESS......."

 

[BiblicalAtheist]

is or is not the commandments written in stone?

Only when it suits a purpose apparently.

 

[And Step]

sums it up, so your saying god only stands by his laws when he wants to.

the laws in the court are just that, there is no "well you cant speed UNLESS......."

Actually, that is not correct. There are certain laws on the books, that prevent certain people from participating in certain ventures, because they haven't reached a certain level of financial strength. That is what the SEC regulates. There are certain investments and ventures that are closed to you if you don't have a certain net worth. Thanks Joe Kennedy.

There are layers of laws. Scientists prove this everyday. Once they master an aspect of certain physical law they move up to a higher law. This is why men fly, talk on cell phones, view people half way around the world. They have accessed higher laws than the previous generation. Just because you haven't done something or don't know how doesn't mean it doesn't exist.

Study to show thy ass approved.

 

[TX_Made713]

Actually, that is not correct. There are certain laws on the books, that prevent certain people from participating in certain ventures, because they haven't reached a certain level of financial strength. That is what the SEC regulates. There are certain investments and ventures that are closed to you if you don't have a certain net worth. Thanks Joe Kennedy.

There are layers of laws. Scientists prove this everyday. Once they master an aspect of certain physical law they move up to a higher law. This is why men fly, talk on cell phones, view people half way around the world. They have accessed higher laws than the previous generation. Just because you haven't done something or don't know how doesn't mean it doesn't exist.

Study to show thy ass approved.

your trying really hard to justify something that cant be, i could counter that paragraph but youll find another way to make it sound logical....the law of science is just that...if your heart stops pumping blood you die, if your brain fails you die...if something goes in the air, it comes down....that is gravity...that is the law..of course if you design something to fly then that wouldnt count but the law wouldnt change itself, jsut the situation....

 

[The GMW]

Sin, according to the Bible, is not just an act of transgression. It is a condition that mankind is in. Before all these sacrifices through Moses, you had Abraham. Sacrifices wasn't implemented in his time. There was the sign of circumcision that showed you belong to God. However, it made people think that because they were circumcised, they didn't have to worry about trangressions; that there was no consequences for the acts of sin. So, Moses comes along and you have the law and the sacrifices.

That doesn't explain much... the history behind animal sacrifices is not what I'm interested in, I'm interested in why God would choose animal sacrifice of all things as the means of earning forgiveness. What makes animal sacrifice any better than circumcision, or writing a formal letter of apology for that matter?

 

[BiblicalAtheist]

Satan can't kill anyone, he can only fux with their head, see Job.

 

[alissowack]

That doesn't explain much... the history behind animal sacrifices is not what I'm interested in, I'm interested in why God would choose animal sacrifice of all things as the means of earning forgiveness. What makes animal sacrifice any better than circumcision, or writing a formal letter of apology for that matter?

It was more about mercy. In their sacrifices, they were not earning forgiveness. The sacrifices was delaying God's wrath. God was going to do this no matter if Moses and his people perfectly practiced good morals. Sin still needed to be dealt with. Though it is not relevant to your thread, the history leading up to the sacrifices ought to make you ask a question...How did Abraham earn God's favor? He didn't do it by animal sacrifices. Abraham didn't earn anything. In terms of salvation, what makes Moses era any different than Abraham?

 

[The GMW]

It was more about mercy. In their sacrifices, they were not earning forgiveness. The sacrifices was delaying God's wrath. God was going to do this no matter if Moses and his people perfectly practiced good morals. Sin still needed to be dealt with. Though it is not relevant to your thread, the history leading up to the sacrifices ought to make you ask a question...How did Abraham earn God's favor? He didn't do it by animal sacrifices. Abraham didn't earn anything. In terms of salvation, what makes Moses era any different than Abraham?

How could a sacrifice "delay" God's wrath? Why would seeing an animal die bring out God's merciful side? How was it possible for his "wrath" to be eased by something so arbitrary and irrelevant, not to mention pointlessly violent? That explains nothing, in fact it brings us back to square one: Why did blood sacrifices appease God?

If I'm not mistaken, Abraham is the one who was instructed to sacrifice his son to prove his loyalty to God. Is that what you're talking about?

 

[BiblicalAtheist]

He can't?

So he just has a strong Mack game?

I haven't come across any story telling of who he directly killed. Just says 'that murderer'.

 

[TX_Made713]

Satan can't kill anyone, he can only fux with their head, see Job.

what she said

 

[alissowack]

How could a sacrifice "delay" God's wrath? Why would seeing an animal die bring out God's merciful side? How was it possible for his "wrath" to be eased by something so arbitrary and irrelevant, not to mention pointlessly violent? That explains nothing, in fact it brings us back to square one: Why did blood sacrifices appease God?

If I'm not mistaken, Abraham is the one who was instructed to sacrifice his son to prove his loyalty to God. Is that what you're talking about?

Because of mankind's disobedience, we are no longer in God's favor. Death and Hell is what we deserve for that one disobedience. Our blood was to be spilled for our condition. However, God didn't end it all.

Abraham was instructed to sacrifice his son. But did it happen? Were there laws in place so that Abraham know about sacrifices?

 

[BiblicalAtheist]

For me it says, place no thing before god, keep your eyes on god. And the iniquity will be visited upon the children down the line because they learn the ways of the parents. Parents put all manner of things before their children even, let alone god. The children will learn this, and fall repeatedly in their errors, just like the parents.

 

[TX_Made713]

For me it says, place no thing before god, keep your eyes on god. And the iniquity will be visited upon the children down the line because they learn the ways of the parents. Parents put all manner of things before their children even, let alone god. The children will learn this, and fall repeatedly in their errors, just like the parents.

basically it is a trick to get people to mindlessly follow religion...a jealous god? come on now

 

[BiblicalAtheist]

basically it is a trick to get people to mindlessly follow religion...a jealous god? come on now

I don't know about the jealous part, just seems a little beneath a god to be jealous.