Questions and Statements about God...

[ThaChozenWun]

So the thing we call and believe to be the mind can be found in the brain? I don't understand this, because then wouldn't the mind be restricted to the brain? Like my brain can be here, but my mind off in another country.

How? If your mind is in another country it isn't doing so on it's own. It's recalling memory from the brain on what you have seen or learned.

 

[BiblicalAtheist]

How? If your mind is in another country it isn't doing so on it's own. It's recalling memory from the brain on what you have seen or learned.

Damn.... that's gotta be right, now that I try to put my mind somewhere it has never seen or heard of.

 

[fiat_money]

So the thing we call and believe to be the mind can be found in the brain? I don't understand this, because then wouldn't the mind be restricted to the brain? Like my brain can be here, but my mind off in another country.

No. As the usage of the word "noumenon" suggests, the "mind" is not something that exists within space/time.

 

[BiblicalAtheist]

No. As the usage of the word "noumenon" suggests, the "mind" is not something that exists within space/time.

Ok now I'm right confused all to hell.

 

[Jabu_Rule]

There is this guy at work who talks of such things yet he can never give me any credence to his theories. After questioning him for a while. He went into the theory of the number 7. SMH.

Thanks fiat_money. I didn't know the word to apply to this baffling concept.

The Incoherence of Solipsism
http://www.iep.utm.edu/solipsis/#H7

With the belief in the essential privacy of experience eliminated as false, the last presupposition underlying solipsism is removed and solipsism is shown as foundationless, in theory and in fact. One might even say, solipsism is necessarily foundationless, for to make an appeal to logical rules or empirical evidence the solipsist would implicitly have to affirm the very thing that he purportedly refuses to believe: the reality of intersubjectively valid criteria and a public, extra-mental world.

 

[Chike]

lol Creating your own reality has nothing to do with literally creating reality.... it has to do with your perception on reality.

For instance... One man's garbage is another man's treasure.

Our brains are built to store data and information based on our senses. If we had no senses, we'd be a tomato. Our brains are also able to create new independent thoughts but only by using the information that's already stored in your mind from previous experiences. This is why we cannot comprehend the 4th or 5th dimension... Because we have never had one experience in such dimension. This is also why new born babies aren't able to comprehend reality, because their minds are brand new to it and are only storing data, not processing it, until the mind develops enough and has enough information to be able to create it's own individual though process.

The universe will be here whether we are or not, but the universe needs us, or any other conscious beings out there to be able to experience itself, both the good and the bad.

 

[Jabu_Rule]

The universe will be here whether we are or not, but the universe needs us, or any other conscious beings out there to be able to experience itself, both the good and the bad.

Can you elaborate on this? Are you saying that the universe requires consciousness? What is good and bad in relationship to the universe?

If the universe will be here without us, how does it need us? What exactly is this experience?

 

[Chike]

Can you elaborate on this? Are you saying that the universe requires consciousness? What is good and bad in relationship to the universe?

If the universe will be here without us, how does it need us? What exactly is this experience?

The universe doesn't require consciousness unless it's trying to experience itself. I don't think the universe is a giant brain within itself... I could be wrong though to be honest, what do I know? But from what I'm aware of, the universe simply contains all the elements and environments and energy it requires to produce what we know of as a brain, and those 'ingredients' need to be formed in a specific way in order to function the way it does. Otherwise, why would we need a brain to think?

Good or bad is a way to describe function and disfunction I guess... Like A tree requires water to grow and live... that would be good. If you poured acid on the tree's roots, that would be bad (for the tree), because it would die. Now, acid by itself is not necessarily bad, it's just acid... but the act of pouring acid on the trees roots would be bad, because it's now creating disfunction. It's all relative.

 

[Jabu_Rule]

The universe doesn't require consciousness unless it's trying to experience itself. I don't think the universe is a giant brain within itself... I could be wrong though to be honest, what do I know? But from what I'm aware of, the universe simply contains all the elements and environments and energy it requires to produce what we know of as a brain, and those 'ingredients' need to be formed in a specific way in order to function the way it does. Otherwise, why would we need a brain to think?

So the universe doesn't need us then.

Good or bad is a way to describe function and disfunction I guess... Like A tree requires water to grow and live... that would be good. If you poured acid on the tree's roots, that would be bad (for the tree), because it would die. Now, acid by itself is not necessarily bad, it's just acid... but the act of pouring acid on the trees roots would be bad, because it's now creating disfunction. It's all relative.

The universe doesn't play by those rules. It holds no concern for a tree planted on planet earth. Earth doesn't hold any concern for the tree either nor does the thunder that splits it in two.

 

[Chike]

So the universe doesn't need us then.

The universe doesn't play by those rules. It holds no concern for a tree planted on planet earth. Earth doesn't hold any concern for the tree either nor does the thunder that splits it in two.

Again, that's all relative. The universe by itself doesn't hold concern for anything... because it's not consciously aware of anything... it just is what it is and functions the way it functions.

Answer me this question; Is acid good or bad for a tree?

Then answer me this question; Is Acid good or bad?

Then answer for both questions; Why?

 

[Jabu_Rule]

Again, that's all relative. The universe by itself doesn't hold concern for anything... because it's not consciously aware of anything... it just is what it is and functions the way it functions.

Answer me this question; Is acid good or bad for a tree?

Then answer me this question; Is Acid good or bad?

Then answer for both questions; Why?

How did this become about trees? I never said anything about good or bad not being relative. But it's relative to the lifeforms that hold concern for a particular state of being. I said it's not a concern of the universe. Therefore the universe doesn't need us nor does it need a tree. Also there isn't any particular function to the universe because we see that there are varying possibilities. I'm sure your not implying that though.

but the universe needs us, or any other conscious beings out there to be able to experience itself, both the good and the bad.

Those are your words.

 

[Chike]

How did this become about trees? I never said anything about good or bad not being relative. But it's relative to the lifeforms that hold concern for a particular state of being. I said it's not a concern of the universe. Therefore the universe doesn't need us nor does it need a tree. Also there isn't any particular function to the universe because we see that there are varying possibilities. I'm sure your not implying that though.

Those are your words.

I was just trying to use an analogy, but if we're on the same page, then nvm.

And when I said the universe needs us, I followed with why it would need us. It doesn't need us to exist, It just needs us in this form of existence to be able to experience itself.

 

[BiblicalAtheist]

I was just trying to use an analogy, but if we're on the same page, then nvm.

And when I said the universe needs us, I followed with why it would need us. It doesn't need us to exist, It just needs us in this form of existence to be able to experience itself.

Maybe need isn't the right word then, maybe "uses" is?

 

[fiat_money]

When personification of the universe goes wrong.

 

[Chike]

Maybe need isn't the right word then, maybe "uses" is?

Well is there another way the universe can experience itself without formulating a brain? It's like us saying, we use eyes to see in the light spectrum, but we don't need eyes to do so. We're just basically the eyes, ears, nose etc... of the universe.

 

[BiblicalAtheist]

Well is there another way the universe can experience itself without formulating a brain? It's like us saying, we use eyes to see in the light spectrum, but we don't need eyes to do so. We're just basically the eyes, ears, nose etc... of the universe.

I think the universe is conscious, has awareness and is intelligent on its own. It doesn't need or use human consciousness, awareness or intelligence at all. We just happen to get to partake of its attributes and enjoy those wonders.

 

[Jabu_Rule]

I was just trying to use an analogy, but if we're on the same page, then nvm.

And when I said the universe needs us, I followed with why it would need us. It doesn't need us to exist, It just needs us in this form of existence to be able to experience itself.

And that's the part you lost me at. What is this experience that you talk of and why would it need us to experience anything?

 

[Jabu_Rule]

I think the universe is conscious, has awareness and is intelligent on its own. It doesn't need or use human consciousness, awareness or intelligence at all. We just happen to get to partake of its attributes and enjoy those wonders.

Can you point to some examples of evidence for a conscious universe?

 

[BiblicalAtheist]

Can you point to some examples of evidence for a conscious universe?

The observer effect.

 

[Jabu_Rule]

The observer effect.

Elaborate.. links