Questions and Statements about God...

[fiat_money]

The observer effect.

Isn't the more abstract definition of this effect mainly applicable to just quantum mechanics? Most of the time, it refers to a person's observing unknowingly affecting the system being observed or erroneously making measurements.

How would that make the universe "conscious"?

 

[Jabu_Rule]

The observer effect.

The observer effect

In physics, the term observer effect refers to changes that the act of observation will make on the phenomenon being observed. This is often the result of instruments that, by necessity, alter the state of what they measure in some manner. A commonplace example is checking the pressure in an automobile tire; this is difficult to do without letting out some of the air, thus changing the pressure. This effect can be observed in many domains of physics.

Are you inflating or misrepresenting the ideas behind concepts to support your argument?

 

[Chike]

And that's the part you lost me at. What is this experience that you talk of and why would it need us to experience anything?

We are the universe. for you to say it needs us, is like saying it needs itself. it needs to be in our form is what I mean.

 

[Jabu_Rule]

We are the universe. for you to say it needs us, is like saying it needs itself. it needs to be in our form is what I mean.

I see what your saying. Basically your saying; because we are part of the universe or made of the universe and we are observing the universe, then the universe is observing itself. Interesting concept.

 

[Chike]

I see what your saying. Basically your saying; because we are part of the universe or made of the universe and we are observing the universe, then the universe is observing itself. Interesting concept.

bingo. If people would replace God with Universe, they'd basically be one step closer to understanding the bible.

 

[Jabu_Rule]

bingo. If people would replace God with Universe, they'd basically be one step closer to understanding the bible.

I always looked at the bible as a convoluted philosophical observation of our reality mixed with imposed divinity and rules a for control and obedience. It's the same issues that past pagan religions had when kings were mad into Gods by the will of a higher God. The problem is that it's biased towards a particular group and the theories don't add up for me. How exactly does this concept apply to the bible though? Give an example.

 

[BiblicalAtheist]

How would that make the universe "conscious"?

I guess because consciousness interacts with consciousness.

Are you inflating or misrepresenting the ideas behind concepts to support your argument?

It was watching videos of shows and I'm pretty sure they themselves were talking about a conscious universe and using the observer effect as supporting evidence. I'm far from a physicist and am taking their word for the things they've discovered and said. Don't know what else to tell ya.

 

[Jabu_Rule]

I guess because consciousness interacts with consciousness.

That only means that various forms of the universe is conscious. Not the entirety of the universe. At least not the various observable parts.

It was watching videos of shows and I'm pretty sure they themselves were talking about a conscious universe and using the observer effect as supporting evidence. I'm far from a physicist and am taking their word for the things they've discovered and said. Don't know what else to tell ya.

I get where your coming from but with that i say, take everything with a grain of salt. Think on the subject, compare it and then come with your own conclusion. Try to base that conclusion on evidence or admit that it's just a theory based on speculation. Notice that the theories don't always hold water. The thing about science as opposed to religion is that it allows for correction and opposing views based on sound counter argument. Scientist are not always willing to give up their position. This is why they need to be exposed by their peers and no one should follow their opinion on faith.

 

[BiblicalAtheist]

That only means that various forms of the universe is conscious. Not the entirety of the universe. At least not the various observable parts.

What do you mean, cuz after reading this I want to say everything we know and understand about the universe is that everything, is made up of atoms, there is nothing else, but I'm not sure I am understanding what you wrote correctly.

I get where your coming from but with that i say, take everything with a grain of salt. Think on the subject, compare it and then come with your own conclusion. Try to base that conclusion on evidence or admit that it's just a theory based on speculation. Notice that the theories don't always hold water. The thing about science as opposed to religion is that it allows for correction and opposing views based on sound counter argument. Scientist are not always willing to give up their position. This is why they need to be exposed by their peers and no one should follow their opinion on faith.

Oh most definitely I agree, but I guess I'm more partial to science because we do have physical things that can be examined.

 

[Jabu_Rule]

What do you mean, cuz after reading this I want to say everything we know and understand about the universe is that everything, is made up of atoms, there is nothing else, but I'm not sure I am understanding what you wrote correctly.

An asteroid isn't conscious yet it exist in the universe. Objects interact with other objects via gravity. Gravity is product a force that is created from the rotation of various objects such as the sun and planets. That same unconscious reactionary force is one of the components necessary to facilitate life on earth.

Science is meant to be impartial and unbiased. Science is an action of observation and testing that leads to understanding. Humans are guilty of creating the bias by the vary act of analyzing the data.

 

[fiat_money]

I guess because consciousness interacts with consciousness....

That holds no significance, because consciousness can also interact with that which is inanimate or that which is "unconscious".

So that would do nothing to show the universe is "conscious".

 

[Chike]

I always looked at the bible as a convoluted philosophical observation of our reality mixed with imposed divinity and rules a for control and obedience. It's the same issues that past pagan religions had when kings were mad into Gods by the will of a higher God. The problem is that it's biased towards a particular group and the theories don't add up for me. How exactly does this concept apply to the bible though? Give an example.

Well I've always taken the whole 'god's wrath' or 'god's judgement' thing as a cause and effect based upon the laws of nature. For example, god not wanting man to be homosexual or he will die. I don't think it's a god person who just doesnt want us to be homosexual just because he said so... I think it's another way to described the universal law that man and man cannot reproduce... If humanity lived completely in a homosexual nature, humanity would die off.

I believe the bible is
written this way for one of two reasons. 1) It was written by those who did not understand what was going on in scientific terms. or 2) It was written FOR those who did not understand what was going on in scientific terms.... by E.T.s who had a more advanced knowledge of the universe.

imo, given the very philosophical and deep nature in which the bible was written, it's E.T. who wrote the bible. I mean I don't know every story or every verse in the bible, I just know enough to base my opinions, but I think there are more than one version of the word God. God as in the universe, and God(s) as in E.T. Then there's Lord, Christ and Holy Spirit. But I wont get into that, cuz it's off topic, and I don't know too much about it anyways.

 

[Jabu_Rule]

Well I've always taken the whole 'god's wrath' or 'god's judgement' thing as a cause and effect based upon the laws of nature. For example, god not wanting man to be homosexual or he will die. I don't think it's a god person who just doesn't want us to be homosexual just because he said so... I think it's another way to described the universal law that man and man cannot reproduce... If humanity lived completely in a homosexual nature, humanity would die off.

I believe the bible is
written this way for one of two reasons. 1) It was written by those who did not understand what was going on in scientific terms. or 2) It was written FOR those who did not understand what was going on in scientific terms.... by E.T.s who had a more advanced knowledge of the universe.

imo, given the very philosophical and deep nature in which the bible was written, it's E.T. who wrote the bible. I mean I don't know every story or every verse in the bible, I just know enough to base my opinions, but I think there are more than one version of the word God. God as in the universe, and God(s) as in E.T. Then there's Lord, Christ and Holy Spirit. But I wont get into that, cuz it's off topic, and I don't know too much about it anyways.

I can cosign you up to the E.T. part. Humans were very observant even before civilization began. I think you should start giving more credit to the E.T.'s of planet earth. Just look at the crazy stuff we've created from scratch in the last 100 years. You can claim that E.T. did it but all of the things that were created are especially well documented in our age from their inception to their completion. This is not to discount a possibility of alien intervention, but too many civilizations created their own wonders without sharing the same philosophies. Egyptian and Mayan culture accumulated plenty of knowledge by observing the stars for generations. Their creations appear to be manufactured by those on earth that looked at constellations from earth.

There wasn't the abundance of smog that we have so I'm sure events were clearer with the naked eye but no where in comparison to the things that we've created today. The god theory seems to have origin in the praise of the most powerful source known to us at the time which was the sun. It is still the most important object in the sky for us do to it granting us life via it's energies. The origin also seems to find origin in the king or pharaoh who was considered to be the incarnation of god or a supreme being. The ruler was on top so people could make an easy correlation with superiority and divinity. Of course his control was facilitated by others to retain power for those parties (sounds familiar?). No one even talks about the completely differing views of the eastern Asian people who had little interaction with the western cultures other then through India which has an mixture of philosophies.

The knowledge that we have is an accumulation of knowledge handed down just like the bible only better documented but can be just as biased and used for control if not challenged.

 

[MeTaL]

We are the universe. for you to say it needs us, is like saying it needs itself. it needs to be in our form is what I mean.

Hmm, I believe everything is energy. Energy cannot be created nor destroyed. Energy is neither male or female. Energy is consciousness. Some will say yes, and some will say no. For example consider human body as an analogy for God. Human body is a pyramidal hierarchy composed of organs of various abilities distributed at different levels. The greatest organs are located towards apex of the pyramid. Size of the top organs reduce dramatically as their share of body control rises in inverse proportion. Thus the minuscule apex becomes the ‘brain’.

 

[Chike]

Hmm, I believe everything is energy. Energy cannot be created nor destroyed. Energy is neither male or female. Energy is consciousness. Some will say yes, and some will say no. For example consider human body as an analogy for God. Human body is a pyramidal hierarchy composed of organs of various abilities distributed at different levels. The greatest organs are located towards apex of the pyramid. Size of the top organs reduce dramatically as their share of body control rises in inverse proportion. Thus the minuscule apex becomes the ‘brain’.

 

[Jabu_Rule]

Hmm, I believe everything is energy. Energy cannot be created nor destroyed. Energy is neither male or female. Energy is consciousness. Some will say yes, and some will say no. For example consider human body as an analogy for God. Human body is a pyramidal hierarchy composed of organs of various abilities distributed at different levels. The greatest organs are located towards apex of the pyramid. Size of the top organs reduce dramatically as their share of body control rises in inverse proportion. Thus the minuscule apex becomes the ‘brain’.

 

[MeTaL]

I too believe we're energy and vibrations. Everything needs energy to move, and life needs energy to live. I heard of our bodies being temples, so I can understand the pyramid analogy, though this is the first time I've ever heard of the analogy of our bodies be god.

Precisely, just think of the sun, this planet needs it, every living organism depends on it. If the sun was to burn out and die, eventually all life form will die.

 

[KTULU IS BACK]

Precisely, just think of the sun, this planet needs it, every living organism depends on it. If the sun was to burn out and die, eventually all life form will die.

And?

The Earth is just one of the many millions of planets that are likely to harbor life.

Stars die all the time, taking with them any living thing that depended on their warmth.

The universe isn't here FOR US. We're just here in it.

 

[KTULU IS BACK]

Energy is consciousness.

Really.

So the energy produced by the gasoline burning in my truck is "consciousness."

Why do you people read the introductory chapter of high school physics textbooks and then stop reading further?

The real world is fascinating, but you have to confuse yourselves with all this new-agey nonsense.

 

[MeTaL]

This would hold true only if it is proven that elements within the universe all comprise a reason and necessity. We are unique in that most of our body serves a purpose but it isn't uniquely necessary in it's form other then to interact with our environment and figure out how to navigate it. A virus does this with out all of these faculties. The consciousness that we have is energy but it is self awareness that creates this consciousness. Life does not equal consciousness. Really we are speaking about the mind which are really reactions contained within the brain. The energies around us are created from reactions under pressure. Consciousness isn't necessary for those reactions to take place. The reactions that are necessary for consciousness are so numerous that it creates complexity.

If you break down the roots like a program you will notice that it is basic cause and effect. Logic is a observation of the possibilities of the effect and how often it can be reproduced from randomness. We use tools to artificially reproduce this randomness to the point where it's perceived to be orderly. It never truly is. For example, a program is never as accurate as we intend it to be. It is only accurate often enough to satisfy. You also have to take note that no solar system is similar and not one component holds necessity (even the sun). Cells divide and create clones as close to perfection as possible to support it's intended event. Cells eventually degrade and fall victim to chaos which is the true foundation of the universe.

We are made of luck and probability. The luck is evolution which dictates that if your species survives then you did good. If you don't then that was the end of your era. Consciousness derived from our ability to survive ever more complex chaotic moments which helped us to accumulate more data to insure against future chaotic event. We're basically autonomous self aware, self replicating programs with built in logic gates that react to environmental change.

Very interesting, Holds account on true occasions. But I agree and disagree with luck and probability. Let me tell why I disagree, before I tell I agree.

I disagree because their there is a theory, that for every possible event there are infinite number of possible outcomes, all of which do happen, but in different quantum realities. Though hypothetically, "if universe/reality is infinite", as in, endless cycle of rebirth and collapse, then anything is possible, including all events which can happen, do, in their own iteration of reality.

Now let tell why I agree. I agree because The universe is infinite yet bounded and is of finite mass and volume. It has a time of origin, as you said, "Consciousness isn't necessary for those reactions to take place. The reactions that are necessary for consciousness are so numerous that it creates complexity." So in conclusion matter and energy are never created or destroyed, they change forms. So the configuration and reconfigurations of matter and energy can mathematically approach infinity, and that all such combination and permutations have not already occurred.