Paternity leave...Let's talk about it.

[Shuffington]

@mryounggun

The amount of time niggas saying they take off ain't a significant enough time to really make a life-shaping difference in a child's life. And even if it was, these same niggas chose to go back to work for one reason and one reason alone...not because their share of the duties has been fulfilled, or the mother had adjusted to whatever situation she in.. NO, simply bc they wasn't gettin' paid no more.

@blackrain

I have a 6yr old son and a son on the way. I would never, as a man, allow anyone to cover my responsibility to my child. My primary responsibility as a man is to provide, not to nurture, and the fact that most niggas will go back to work once paid time runs out leads me to believe that those niggas agree. Because aint no way in four hells you gon tell me that after 10 or so days off, your newborn baby is any better off with or without you on day 11, but you gon take your ass to work because the bills is due.

Your primary job as a parent is to both provide AND nurture. It's not a one or the other...and no the baby isn't better off which is why there's other countries in the world that offer paid paternity leave because it's not rocket science to know it takes 2 people to properly raise a child. The US is way behind on this shit.

Primary is a singular term...which mean only ONE can be primary, the other has to be secondary.

So you choose...

You're attempting to manipulate the definition and context behind what you're saying to fit your ridiculous pov. As a parent you can place emphasis on both being a provider and nurturing your child. As a parent it's your responsibility to do both and to neglect one under some false pretense of manhood just makes you look stupid as fuck. Is providing important? Of course. It costs money to raise a human being. Does that mean you shouldn't also make it a primary objective to nurture your child and give them a sense of security any child should have? Yes.

But how are you doing this if you chose to go back to work? If that's the case, why not take 6 months to where you can actually have an argument that you made a lasting impact on your child during the 'paternity' period...

My point has been the same..I dont have to manipulate shit. My primary goal as a man is to provide. Has been that way since man existed. Seems like you're trying to change the narrative which is why I suggested that this shit is contributing to the feminization of our society...

@Shuffington don't know how you cant see it with all these niggas in here sounding like single mothers lmao

• I just fail to understand what is " feminine " about a father taking advantage of the time allotted to him to support his new born and his baby mother/ wife at such a (what I would hope to be) magical time in their relationship.

• When you say your "primary" goal is to be a provider, imo its so limiting and it sells you short of all the other attributes that you may bring to the table at the same intensity. Its a semantics tag or an ego boost that does nothing for your family at the end of the day... Maybe it helps your girl cause she can count on you for money? ... or it gives you a reason not to do family sh*t? ... I dunno.

• Lastly, Every family will do what works for them. Hell, If you only want to take off the day of the birth and go back to "work" ... more power to you. I think all fathers have to make the personal choice of how long they will need to take off for paternity leave. Its less about the Feminization of society .... and more about catering to the needs of your family.... f*ck society.

 

[yellowtapesport]

@mryounggun

The amount of time niggas saying they take off ain't a significant enough time to really make a life-shaping difference in a child's life. And even if it was, these same niggas chose to go back to work for one reason and one reason alone...not because their share of the duties has been fulfilled, or the mother had adjusted to whatever situation she in.. NO, simply bc they wasn't gettin' paid no more.

@blackrain

I have a 6yr old son and a son on the way. I would never, as a man, allow anyone to cover my responsibility to my child. My primary responsibility as a man is to provide, not to nurture, and the fact that most niggas will go back to work once paid time runs out leads me to believe that those niggas agree. Because aint no way in four hells you gon tell me that after 10 or so days off, your newborn baby is any better off with or without you on day 11, but you gon take your ass to work because the bills is due.

I can only speak for myself and I didn't mention anything about making a life-shaping difference. Like I said in my post, my main reason for taking time off was to help the transition from not having a small mammal that literally depends on you for every single thing...to having a small mammal that depends on you for every single thing. As far as bonding, some of my best memories as a father are from 3am, me and my kid on the couch, a bottle in his mouth and NBA highlights on the TV.

Also...my shit was paid. Can't speak for anyone else. Matter fact, I actually coulda took WAY more paid time off than I did.

And I get that...please dont make it seem like I dont. My job said I have 51 days of PAID leave, but can take up to 12weeks.

What I'm saying is if we aint talking bout UNPAID time away from work, then you not doin this for the baby (even tho u prob never admit it). All that shit you just said you do I DO AND STILL GO TO WORK..not saying I'm better than anyone else just proves my point. Aint no difference (with the baby, mentally/developmentally) from day 10 to day 11, or day 14 to day 15...

The only difference is niggas aint gettin paid...or they bored out they fuckin mind

So miss me with all that 'independent woman' shit

I get what you're saying, but you don't seem to be paying attention to what I'm saying. I mentioned more than once that my goal with taking time off was to help with the TRANSITION INTO PARENTHOOD. I never once mentioned my taking time off work being for the benefit of my son. All the shit I said I did was gonna get done regardless. I even said that it's just EASIER TO DO IT when you don;t have to worry about going to work, also.

Like you, I was gonna do all that shit anyway. But if my job offers paid time off in order to make the transition easier, I don't understand the point in NOT taking it just to perpetuate some tough guy facade, on some 'As a man, I...' shit.

But that's me. I guess I just don't understand what angle you're approaching this from or what your point is. Maybe I missed some shit, fam. It's happened before.

I GOATed this but I aint tryna be on no 'as a man' shit I'm just sayin niggas lying to themselves if they tryna say they need leave from work to 'bond' with your child.

 

[Shuffington]

If I ever knocked up a chick or a hypothetical wife... I'm lucky enough to get 2 months of paid leave that I could use anytime for a whole year.

I'm using the f*ck out of it. All of it. If i need more time then We will have to work out a schedule that would benefit our family circumstances.

 

[yellowtapesport]

@mryounggun

The amount of time niggas saying they take off ain't a significant enough time to really make a life-shaping difference in a child's life. And even if it was, these same niggas chose to go back to work for one reason and one reason alone...not because their share of the duties has been fulfilled, or the mother had adjusted to whatever situation she in.. NO, simply bc they wasn't gettin' paid no more.

@blackrain

I have a 6yr old son and a son on the way. I would never, as a man, allow anyone to cover my responsibility to my child. My primary responsibility as a man is to provide, not to nurture, and the fact that most niggas will go back to work once paid time runs out leads me to believe that those niggas agree. Because aint no way in four hells you gon tell me that after 10 or so days off, your newborn baby is any better off with or without you on day 11, but you gon take your ass to work because the bills is due.

Your primary job as a parent is to both provide AND nurture. It's not a one or the other...and no the baby isn't better off which is why there's other countries in the world that offer paid paternity leave because it's not rocket science to know it takes 2 people to properly raise a child. The US is way behind on this shit.

Primary is a singular term...which mean only ONE can be primary, the other has to be secondary.

So you choose...

You're attempting to manipulate the definition and context behind what you're saying to fit your ridiculous pov. As a parent you can place emphasis on both being a provider and nurturing your child. As a parent it's your responsibility to do both and to neglect one under some false pretense of manhood just makes you look stupid as fuck. Is providing important? Of course. It costs money to raise a human being. Does that mean you shouldn't also make it a primary objective to nurture your child and give them a sense of security any child should have? Yes.

But how are you doing this if you chose to go back to work? If that's the case, why not take 6 months to where you can actually have an argument that you made a lasting impact on your child during the 'paternity' period...

My point has been the same..I dont have to manipulate shit. My primary goal as a man is to provide. Has been that way since man existed. Seems like you're trying to change the narrative which is why I suggested that this shit is contributing to the feminization of our society...

@Shuffington don't know how you cant see it with all these niggas in here sounding like single mothers lmao

• I just fail to understand what is " feminine " about a father taking advantage of the time allotted to him to support his new born and his baby mother/ wife at such a (what I would hope to be) magical time in their relationship.

• When you say your "primary" goal is to be a provider, imo its so limiting and it sells you short of all the other attributes that you may bring to the table. Its a semantics tag or an ego boost that does nothing for your family at the end of the day... Maybe it helps your girl cause she can count on you for money? ... or it gives you a reason not to do family sh*t? ... I dunno.

• Lastly, Every family will do what works for them. Hell, If you only want to take off the day of the birth and go back to "work" ... more power to you. I think all fathers have to make the personal choice of how long they will need to take off for paternity leave. Its less about the Feminization of society .... and more about catering to the needs of your family.... f*ck society.

Answer to bold: Nothing at all.

But to act like your presence as a man is 'needed' in an effort to make note of the fact you changed a few diapers and woke up in the middle of the night a few times for a few days you took off work while getting paid is a feminine train of thought imo.

Now I don't know everything, but that's why I asked the question...

And just because I have a 'primary' goal doesn't mean I neglect any of my other goals. I just respect the fact that those other goals (and now this new situation in life) all depend on that primary goal.

And I appreciate your third point because you're right..f*ck society lol

 

[HundredEyes]

In Sweden both parents get a 6 month paid leave which has been socially acceptable to the point that youre actually the odd one out as a man if you dont take the leave...

In Holland mothers get 3 months and fathers get....2 whole days man lmao.

In an ideal world it would be great if the Swedish model was available for all...lord knows people are idiots and need all the help they can get taking care of a baby...

I took a week....after that basically fucked my biorythme up by living like the gottdamn batman, barely any sleep at night but still about the business during the day...you know those 'ill be here all day' type of headaches you get after to much sleep? I get those fuckers now if I sleep more than 4/5 hours lol smh...have to find a way to reboot...

But yeah paternity leave should be atleast 3 months imo and paid for both...some people let the grandparents/maids/nurses etc help out but when it comes to society shit like this one always need to look at a standard (2 parent household as the minimum standard) and treat everyone like thats the case - cause not everyone has or wants family/maids involved - and get the appropiate help/understanding. Which can be easily achieved by following a insurance model similair to the swedes...

 

[banginscrew901]

@mryounggun

The amount of time niggas saying they take off ain't a significant enough time to really make a life-shaping difference in a child's life. And even if it was, these same niggas chose to go back to work for one reason and one reason alone...not because their share of the duties has been fulfilled, or the mother had adjusted to whatever situation she in.. NO, simply bc they wasn't gettin' paid no more.

@blackrain

I have a 6yr old son and a son on the way. I would never, as a man, allow anyone to cover my responsibility to my child. My primary responsibility as a man is to provide, not to nurture, and the fact that most niggas will go back to work once paid time runs out leads me to believe that those niggas agree. Because aint no way in four hells you gon tell me that after 10 or so days off, your newborn baby is any better off with or without you on day 11, but you gon take your ass to work because the bills is due.

I can only speak for myself and I didn't mention anything about making a life-shaping difference. Like I said in my post, my main reason for taking time off was to help the transition from not having a small mammal that literally depends on you for every single thing...to having a small mammal that depends on you for every single thing. As far as bonding, some of my best memories as a father are from 3am, me and my kid on the couch, a bottle in his mouth and NBA highlights on the TV.

Also...my shit was paid. Can't speak for anyone else. Matter fact, I actually coulda took WAY more paid time off than I did.

And I get that...please dont make it seem like I dont. My job said I have 51 days of PAID leave, but can take up to 12weeks.

What I'm saying is if we aint talking bout UNPAID time away from work, then you not doin this for the baby (even tho u prob never admit it). All that shit you just said you do I DO AND STILL GO TO WORK..not saying I'm better than anyone else just proves my point. Aint no difference (with the baby, mentally/developmentally) from day 10 to day 11, or day 14 to day 15...

The only difference is niggas aint gettin paid...or they bored out they fuckin mind

So miss me with all that 'independent woman' shit

Mine was unpaid and I wouldn't trade it in for a damn thing. Did 2 and a had months on both of em and like blackrain I enjoyed it cause them moments will never happen again. Staying up late at night she been up and you tired she look and smile at you she just melt my heart and was all worth them late nights. And we do have a bond her mom loves that about us.

 

[yellowtapesport]

@mryounggun

The amount of time niggas saying they take off ain't a significant enough time to really make a life-shaping difference in a child's life. And even if it was, these same niggas chose to go back to work for one reason and one reason alone...not because their share of the duties has been fulfilled, or the mother had adjusted to whatever situation she in.. NO, simply bc they wasn't gettin' paid no more.

@blackrain

I have a 6yr old son and a son on the way. I would never, as a man, allow anyone to cover my responsibility to my child. My primary responsibility as a man is to provide, not to nurture, and the fact that most niggas will go back to work once paid time runs out leads me to believe that those niggas agree. Because aint no way in four hells you gon tell me that after 10 or so days off, your newborn baby is any better off with or without you on day 11, but you gon take your ass to work because the bills is due.

I can only speak for myself and I didn't mention anything about making a life-shaping difference. Like I said in my post, my main reason for taking time off was to help the transition from not having a small mammal that literally depends on you for every single thing...to having a small mammal that depends on you for every single thing. As far as bonding, some of my best memories as a father are from 3am, me and my kid on the couch, a bottle in his mouth and NBA highlights on the TV.

Also...my shit was paid. Can't speak for anyone else. Matter fact, I actually coulda took WAY more paid time off than I did.

And I get that...please dont make it seem like I dont. My job said I have 51 days of PAID leave, but can take up to 12weeks.

What I'm saying is if we aint talking bout UNPAID time away from work, then you not doin this for the baby (even tho u prob never admit it). All that shit you just said you do I DO AND STILL GO TO WORK..not saying I'm better than anyone else just proves my point. Aint no difference (with the baby, mentally/developmentally) from day 10 to day 11, or day 14 to day 15...

The only difference is niggas aint gettin paid...or they bored out they fuckin mind

So miss me with all that 'independent woman' shit

Mine was unpaid and I wouldn't trade it in for a damn thing. Did 2 and a had months on both of em and like blackrain I enjoyed it cause them moments will never happen again. Staying up late at night she been up and you tired she look and smile at you she just melt my heart and was all worth them late nights. And we do have a bond her mom loves that about us.

Did your wife/BM go to work during those 2.5 months?

If yes, then you have effectively displayed my point about feminization...

@VIBE

 

[banginscrew901]

@mryounggun

The amount of time niggas saying they take off ain't a significant enough time to really make a life-shaping difference in a child's life. And even if it was, these same niggas chose to go back to work for one reason and one reason alone...not because their share of the duties has been fulfilled, or the mother had adjusted to whatever situation she in.. NO, simply bc they wasn't gettin' paid no more.

@blackrain

I have a 6yr old son and a son on the way. I would never, as a man, allow anyone to cover my responsibility to my child. My primary responsibility as a man is to provide, not to nurture, and the fact that most niggas will go back to work once paid time runs out leads me to believe that those niggas agree. Because aint no way in four hells you gon tell me that after 10 or so days off, your newborn baby is any better off with or without you on day 11, but you gon take your ass to work because the bills is due.

I can only speak for myself and I didn't mention anything about making a life-shaping difference. Like I said in my post, my main reason for taking time off was to help the transition from not having a small mammal that literally depends on you for every single thing...to having a small mammal that depends on you for every single thing. As far as bonding, some of my best memories as a father are from 3am, me and my kid on the couch, a bottle in his mouth and NBA highlights on the TV.

Also...my shit was paid. Can't speak for anyone else. Matter fact, I actually coulda took WAY more paid time off than I did.

And I get that...please dont make it seem like I dont. My job said I have 51 days of PAID leave, but can take up to 12weeks.

What I'm saying is if we aint talking bout UNPAID time away from work, then you not doin this for the baby (even tho u prob never admit it). All that shit you just said you do I DO AND STILL GO TO WORK..not saying I'm better than anyone else just proves my point. Aint no difference (with the baby, mentally/developmentally) from day 10 to day 11, or day 14 to day 15...

The only difference is niggas aint gettin paid...or they bored out they fuckin mind

So miss me with all that 'independent woman' shit

Mine was unpaid and I wouldn't trade it in for a damn thing. Did 2 and a had months on both of em and like blackrain I enjoyed it cause them moments will never happen again. Staying up late at night she been up and you tired she look and smile at you she just melt my heart and was all worth them late nights. And we do have a bond her mom loves that about us.

Did your wife/BM go to work during those 2.5 months?

If yes, then you have effectively displayed my point about feminization...

@VIBE

Nah she stayed off for 5 months

 

[Shuffington]

@mryounggun

The amount of time niggas saying they take off ain't a significant enough time to really make a life-shaping difference in a child's life. And even if it was, these same niggas chose to go back to work for one reason and one reason alone...not because their share of the duties has been fulfilled, or the mother had adjusted to whatever situation she in.. NO, simply bc they wasn't gettin' paid no more.

@blackrain

I have a 6yr old son and a son on the way. I would never, as a man, allow anyone to cover my responsibility to my child. My primary responsibility as a man is to provide, not to nurture, and the fact that most niggas will go back to work once paid time runs out leads me to believe that those niggas agree. Because aint no way in four hells you gon tell me that after 10 or so days off, your newborn baby is any better off with or without you on day 11, but you gon take your ass to work because the bills is due.

Your primary job as a parent is to both provide AND nurture. It's not a one or the other...and no the baby isn't better off which is why there's other countries in the world that offer paid paternity leave because it's not rocket science to know it takes 2 people to properly raise a child. The US is way behind on this shit.

Primary is a singular term...which mean only ONE can be primary, the other has to be secondary.

So you choose...

You're attempting to manipulate the definition and context behind what you're saying to fit your ridiculous pov. As a parent you can place emphasis on both being a provider and nurturing your child. As a parent it's your responsibility to do both and to neglect one under some false pretense of manhood just makes you look stupid as fuck. Is providing important? Of course. It costs money to raise a human being. Does that mean you shouldn't also make it a primary objective to nurture your child and give them a sense of security any child should have? Yes.

But how are you doing this if you chose to go back to work? If that's the case, why not take 6 months to where you can actually have an argument that you made a lasting impact on your child during the 'paternity' period...

My point has been the same..I dont have to manipulate shit. My primary goal as a man is to provide. Has been that way since man existed. Seems like you're trying to change the narrative which is why I suggested that this shit is contributing to the feminization of our society...

@Shuffington don't know how you cant see it with all these niggas in here sounding like single mothers lmao

• I just fail to understand what is " feminine " about a father taking advantage of the time allotted to him to support his new born and his baby mother/ wife at such a (what I would hope to be) magical time in their relationship.

• When you say your "primary" goal is to be a provider, imo its so limiting and it sells you short of all the other attributes that you may bring to the table. Its a semantics tag or an ego boost that does nothing for your family at the end of the day... Maybe it helps your girl cause she can count on you for money? ... or it gives you a reason not to do family sh*t? ... I dunno.

• Lastly, Every family will do what works for them. Hell, If you only want to take off the day of the birth and go back to "work" ... more power to you. I think all fathers have to make the personal choice of how long they will need to take off for paternity leave. Its less about the Feminization of society .... and more about catering to the needs of your family.... f*ck society.

Answer to bold: Nothing at all.

But to act like your presence as a man is 'needed' in an effort to make note of the fact you changed a few diapers and woke up in the middle of the night a few times for a few days you took off work while getting paid is a feminine train of thought imo.

Now I don't know everything, but that's why I asked the question...

And just because I have a 'primary' goal doesn't mean I neglect any of my other goals. I just respect the fact that those other goals (and now this new situation in life) all depend on that primary goal.

And I appreciate your third point because you're right..f*ck society lol

I will defer.... seeing as tho you've been through the process of having a newborn and I haven't. (I think thats what I read)

My thinking is this:

• Having not been through the process .... being AVAILABLE would be my main goal. AVAILABILITY IS KEY for me and my psyche and my wifey. If I'm working 50 minutes away in traffic I would feel like Im to far to be the protector that I need to be. My Act of Service would be to serve and protect. What that looks like? Could just be changing diapers and rocking the little one to sleep. It could also mean just allowing the wife time to herself.

I mean, it is my precious baby also... this is not just any ol kid that i don't give a sh*t about.

• Perhaps baby #2 would be different because we have been through this process and better know what we (wife and myself) are capable of.

 

[jetlifebih]

So my question is:

Does this contribute to the constant feminization of our society? Is it just a paid vacation?

WTF? Feminization?

I think the problem is that more men don't get longer paid leave time in general.

No feminization involved in wanting to spend time with your child at any moment in their life.

Niggas call the dumbest shit feminine. Yeah...wanting to actually raise your child and be there is feminine lol

So you need time off work to raise your child now???

You reachin (as usual) my nigga

HAWHAT ? ? ! !

he's not alone

yet i'm so wrong for pointing out the toxic ideas around masculinity, femininity, and sex

There’s toxicity in blurred ideas of masculinity and femininity and sex towards groups of people who on average show similar behavior....

The fact that more than half of men show more masculinity and more than half of women show more femininity naturally....shows us that these roles are important and blurring the lines would also have a negative effect...do any bad ideas come to your mind when thinking of these ideas??

not saying men and women aren't different...but even when differences are found, no one can conclude that they are all immutable because of environmental influences

and the general consensus among medical researchers is that differences between the sexes are greatly exaggerated

for me it's not about blurring the lines per se...its about pushing back against ideas like the idea stay at home fathers/husbands are weak or less than...or paternity leave is not necessary

is that really a bad thing bruh?

Honestly...the guy you describe is not the guy you would want....as your father, husband, son or brother....

yea i wouldn't want to date this man....but unfortunately we all have to share the earth with ppl who think like this...some of whom have power and influence....some of whom could make it harder for new fathers to take time off work

They are immutable biological differences tho, and not just physical...there are mental processes that come with being a male that will not change over time and will show in social settings same as being a female

I think the differences between men and women are subtle within certain sub groups or samples of the population, but the differences as a whole population aren’t sublte idk what general medical consensus you speak of

And I think when there are a large portion of fathers who aren’t even bringing in income, that need to focus on that, as that will help their situation more immediate than taking paternity leave especially in the black community

And don’t get it twisted I am not saying that paternity leave is a bad idea to those who are in the right situation and can afford it but we shouldn’t push it ahead of more important father issues

 

[Madame_CJSkywalker]

So my question is:

Does this contribute to the constant feminization of our society? Is it just a paid vacation?

WTF? Feminization?

I think the problem is that more men don't get longer paid leave time in general.

No feminization involved in wanting to spend time with your child at any moment in their life.

Niggas call the dumbest shit feminine. Yeah...wanting to actually raise your child and be there is feminine lol

So you need time off work to raise your child now???

You reachin (as usual) my nigga

HAWHAT ? ? ! !

he's not alone

yet i'm so wrong for pointing out the toxic ideas around masculinity, femininity, and sex

There’s toxicity in blurred ideas of masculinity and femininity and sex towards groups of people who on average show similar behavior....

The fact that more than half of men show more masculinity and more than half of women show more femininity naturally....shows us that these roles are important and blurring the lines would also have a negative effect...do any bad ideas come to your mind when thinking of these ideas??

not saying men and women aren't different...but even when differences are found, no one can conclude that they are all immutable because of environmental influences

and the general consensus among medical researchers is that differences between the sexes are greatly exaggerated

for me it's not about blurring the lines per se...its about pushing back against ideas like the idea stay at home fathers/husbands are weak or less than...or paternity leave is not necessary

is that really a bad thing bruh?

Honestly...the guy you describe is not the guy you would want....as your father, husband, son or brother....

yea i wouldn't want to date this man....but unfortunately we all have to share the earth with ppl who think like this...some of whom have power and influence....some of whom could make it harder for new fathers to take time off work

They are immutable biological differences tho, and not just physical...there are mental processes that come with being a male that will not change over time and will show in social settings same as being a female

I think the differences between men and women are subtle within certain sub groups or samples of the population, but the differences as a whole population aren’t sublte idk what general medical consensus you speak of

And I think when there are a large portion of fathers who aren’t even bringing in income, that need to focus on that, as that will help their situation more immediate than taking paternity leave especially in the black community

And don’t get it twisted I am not saying that paternity leave is a bad idea to those who are in the right situation and can afford it but we shouldn’t push it ahead of more important father issues

the existence of biological differences doesn't prove social and cultural influence to be obsolete. they work in tandem

and what are these mental processes that you speak of that cannot be changed or influenced/shaped?

a man deciding to take paternity leave to help the mother of his child adjust to her new life is not going to prevent the next man from getting a job or hurt the black community... would actually help prevent more broken homes considering how many relationships dissolve without a year or two once a child is introduced. blk women have always had to juggle raising children, domestic duties and holding down a full time job so that can obviously create a strain on any relationship

like others have said the role of a father and mother goes beyond just going to work

not to mention most paternity leave is paid...so i'm not exactly sure what ur beef is