Misogynoir: Black women are placed at the bottom because of anti-Blackness (long read)

[Ubuntu1]

@ubuntu1 black women do not consider themselves as feminist. So your argument is invalid.

They are seen as a womanist.

Funny thing is that you did not read the whole post or comprehend it.

Im sorry that i dont read wall of texts by self-proclaim pedophiles.

I am not a pedophile, self-proclaimed or otherwise, and even if I were that wouldn't detract from my argument. Come up with a real argument that doesn't rely on some silly ad hominem.

A cornerstone of feminist theory is the ability to choose what you want to do without hindrance;

If by 'hindrance' you mean physical coercion, I think this is the cornerstone of libertarianism. In Western societies, women can do almost everything a man can do (the one exception that comes to mind is walking around topless, in some places), maybe not without criticism but the same goes for men. The vast majority of complaints feminists have don't involve the violation of women's autonomy (very often they are the ones undermining women's autonomy). Women are slightly more than half of the voting population, there is no power that men, as a 'group' have over them. If 'feminism' refers to something other than gender equality (which I'm for but is egalitarianism, not feminism or masculinism) or patriarchy theory and the invalidation of anti-male sexism and female privilege, like just being 'pro-female', then that 'feminism' I wouldn't necessarily have a problem with.

i don't

In that case, men are also sometimes hindered from doing what they want to do so I don't know why you're framing it as a woman's issue.

 

[Colin$mackabi$h]

there is a reason why all the really successful peoples and nations in history have been patriarchal and it's because men seek to do better and create better for their women and children, and we aggressively do what we have to do to better our situation in a way that women simply don't seem as well equipped to do this.

yeah I know correlation is not causation but sometimes it should be enough

Criminally slept on post.

 

[Ubuntu1]

@ubuntu1 black women do not consider themselves as feminist. So your argument is invalid.

They are seen as a womanist.

Funny thing is that you did not read the whole post or comprehend it.

Im sorry that i dont read wall of texts by self-proclaim pedophiles.

I am not a pedophile, self-proclaimed or otherwise, and even if I were that wouldn't detract from my argument. Come up with a real argument that doesn't rely on some silly ad hominem.

A cornerstone of feminist theory is the ability to choose what you want to do without hindrance;

If by 'hindrance' you mean physical coercion, I think this is the cornerstone of libertarianism. In Western societies, women can do almost everything a man can do (the one exception that comes to mind is walking around topless, in some places), maybe not without criticism but the same goes for men. The vast majority of complaints feminists have don't involve the violation of women's autonomy (very often they are the ones undermining women's autonomy). Women are slightly more than half of the voting population, there is no power that men, as a 'group' have over them. If 'feminism' refers to something other than gender equality (which I'm for but is egalitarianism, not feminism or masculinism) or patriarchy theory and the invalidation of anti-male sexism and female privilege, like just being 'pro-female', then that 'feminism' I wouldn't necessarily have a problem with.

i don't

In that case, men are also sometimes hindered from doing what they want to do so I don't know why you're framing it as a woman's issue.

I'm not. I'm stating a cornerstone of a broad theory.

You are if you think 'feminism' is the solution to a problem that affects men and women.

 

[Splackavelli]

She rants and raves at any chance against black men. She beleives EVERY black man is a Taye Diggs Sambo coon who dates white women and despise black women. She thinks every black man is low down and dusty and should be exterminated. It looks like she had a bad expereince with black men and is using it to over generalize all of us as coons who hate they own black mother.

You have a non-black woman in your signature, yet you are trying to come for me. You are a coon. You are everything I talk about. Bye.

A coon is black man or women who talk up a non black folk but talk down their own women. I am a man who will say a woman is bad if she attracts me. I wont lie to myself for not saying the broad on my sig isnt attractive. Black women are on top of my list and i never talked down about them like the weirdo no social skills coons at thecoli.com who make threads day after day about how much they despise black women. I plan on marrying a black women i dated mostly black women so stfu. I dont chastise black women who find a white man or latino man attractive.

You give no ideas on how to fix the black community. You just find it easier to critique then find ideas to help build a national black agenda or a black economy or black empowerment.

Interracial relationships reaffirm white supremacy.

Yep SixSickSims is definitely back. Welcome home gurrl.

 

[Splackavelli]

She rants and raves at any chance against black men. She beleives EVERY black man is a Taye Diggs Sambo coon who dates white women and despise black women. She thinks every black man is low down and dusty and should be exterminated. It looks like she had a bad expereince with black men and is using it to over generalize all of us as coons who hate they own black mother.

You have a non-black woman in your signature, yet you are trying to come for me. You are a coon. You are everything I talk about. Bye.

A coon is black man or women who talk up a non black folk but talk down their own women. I am a man who will say a woman is bad if she attracts me. I wont lie to myself for not saying the broad on my sig isnt attractive. Black women are on top of my list and i never talked down about them like the weirdo no social skills coons at thecoli.com who make threads day after day about how much they despise black women. I plan on marrying a black women i dated mostly black women so stfu. I dont chastise black women who find a white man or latino man attractive.

You give no ideas on how to fix the black community. You just find it easier to critique then find ideas to help build a national black agenda or a black economy or black empowerment.

Interracial relationships reaffirm white supremacy.

Yep SixSickSins is definitely back. Welcome home gurrl.

 

[Purr]

Yall are soooo off topic that it's hilarious to see this in action.

Not one spoke about misogynoir, except for a very few.

Not one spoke about the issues regarding black women, except grouping us all together as a monolithic group (e.g, black people).

Funny, I only made this thread because BLACK MEN (hi @Elzo69Renaissance‌) on the ic asked me to addressed the issue at hand, instead of "derailing" every male-centric thread about blackness.

Also, I am quite baffled by yall over use of the word, "feminism" & "feminist", when I a BLACK WOMAN explained that most black women do not see or consider themselves as feminist due to white women and NBPoC (non-black people of color) women subscribing to anti-blackness; where black women are not allowed in these spaces to speak about their unique experiences because it "excludes" other women, which is racist as fuck.

This was not an article. It was my own words and thoughts, where i had referenced the writer to givea clearer point to my analysis.

 

[blacktux]

Good thread.

Black women have always had it worse than black men.

As far as patriarchy goes, people protect what benefits them.

 

[jetlifebih]

Good thread.

Black women have always had it worse than black men.

As far as patriarchy goes, people protect what benefits them.

We have had it equally rough saying one side had it worst is dividing us

 

[blacktux]

Outside of mathematics or machines there is nothing equal in the real world.

Its either better or worse. Not being divisive but just from my grasp on history id say black women had it worse.

Its important to take the time to understand their struggle individually so that there is a greater sense of empathy.

 

[Ubuntu1]

No I'm not, I was quite literally stating a fact. You assumed I thought it was a solution, I did not state that, do not put words into my mouth.

Stating a fact =/= thinking it the "solution". You do understand that right? Not a particularly hard concept to grasp.

I assumed that you identified with the theory you were explaining and I had reason to. From what you described, this is a normative 'theory'. The feminists you describe are advocating being able to do what you want without hindrance, not just making a matter of fact empirical claim about society. Problem : not being able to do what you want without hindrance. Solution, or at least objective, - being able to do what you want without hindrance. My criticism stands whether you were matter of factly describing a political/social/moral ideology or identifying with it, if you identify the movement encouraging the freedom to do what you want without hindrance with an inherently gender biased term you are either a) implying that women alone, or in some unique way, are discouraged from doing what they want without hindrance or b) you acknowledge that men have the same problem but simply don't care.

Actually a lot BW feminists and womanists don't demean women who decide to be a housewife/take on the traditional gender roles assigned to women. This is such a huge misconception.

You can't really believe that there are no white feminists who are against demeaning women for voluntarily taking on some traditional gender roles. You're not as different as you seem to think, you're as in-group biased as white feminists are. You act as though there's some deep, inherent psychological difference between black women and white women, not just in general due to maybe culture and socialization, but by virtue of their being black/white, that's causing an ideological difference between 'black' feminism and 'white' feminism, aside maybe from stances on distinctly racial issues that black feminists might take for reasons other than their being 'feminists'.

Usually the same (white) women who disrespect women who abide by traditional gender roles, are the same women who tell muslim women how oppressed they are while talking over them and silencing them.

This is what I mean, it's not as though there are no white women who would agree with you and all black women would. You'll probably respond that you're just making a generalization but I don't think white western feminism is being falsely conflated with feminism/womanism 'in general', the basic tenet of 'feminism' (which justifies the gender biased term itself - it wouldn't, in my view, even if women really were the primary victims of sexism or systematically discriminated against in a way that men are not) is patriarchy theory; the idea that society is set up to discriminate against women for the benefit of men. The actual statistics discrediting the idea of a static and universal male privilege are completely ignored by feminists.

To emphasize my point on there being no difference between white feminism and feminism 'in general' (you talk about white women ignoring the autonomy of Muslim women when claiming how oppressed they are); the opening post briefly touches on women's bodies being objectified (which is all the more laughable considering how many pictures of half-naked, attractive men who are an 'unrealistic standard of beauty' thread starter has posted) while completely ignoring the fact that strippers, adult film stars, sex workers, celebrities, models and every day women voluntarily objectify themselves. This written by a black 'womanist', not a white feminist with a condescending attitude toward her fellow women of different cultures.

If feminism was just being pro-woman unity or woman pride or identifying with and caring about fellow women then I would have no issue with it but the problem is you make false empirical claims about society that are biased toward the interests of your in-group and you present your group self-interest under the guise of 'egalitarianism' when you hold men and women to different moral standards and pick and choose which double standards to criticize or when to oppose and even just acknowledge sex based discrimination. I have *never* come across any version of feminism that did not completely invalidate the concept of anti-male sexism and female privilege (not men being 'indirectly' harmed by anti-female sexism and male privilege but anti-male sexism and female privilege as an independent concern and not a by-product of women's issues) and make claims about society that contradict all of the available evidence. It would be meaningful to talk about anti-white racism and racist black people even under American slavery or South African apartheid when black people really were the sole (direct) victims of systematic racism so as if the actual claims about society that feminists make being completely untrue wasn't bad enough their attitude that men could never be the victims of anti-male sexism and female privilege and that women lack the power to be sexist when they are just as physically capable of carrying out the same acts that sexist men can is fundamentally irrational.

 

[Purr]

No I'm not, I was quite literally stating a fact. You assumed I thought it was a solution, I did not state that, do not put words into my mouth.

Stating a fact =/= thinking it the "solution". You do understand that right? Not a particularly hard concept to grasp.

I assumed that you identified with the theory you were explaining and I had reason to. From what you described, this is a normative 'theory'. The feminists you describe are advocating being able to do what you want without hindrance, not just making a matter of fact empirical claim about society. Problem : not being able to do what you want without hindrance. Solution, or at least objective, - being able to do what you want without hindrance. My criticism stands whether you were matter of factly describing a political/social/moral ideology or identifying with it, if you identify the movement encouraging the freedom to do what you want without hindrance with an inherently gender biased term you are either a) implying that women alone, or in some unique way, are discouraged from doing what they want without hindrance or b) you acknowledge that men have the same problem but simply don't care.

Actually a lot BW feminists and womanists don't demean women who decide to be a housewife/take on the traditional gender roles assigned to women. This is such a huge misconception.

You can't really believe that there are no white feminists who are against demeaning women for voluntarily taking on some traditional gender roles. You're not as different as you seem to think, you're as in-group biased as white feminists are. You act as though there's some deep, inherent psychological difference between black women and white women, not just in general due to maybe culture and socialization, but by virtue of their being black/white, that's causing an ideological difference between 'black' feminism and 'white' feminism, aside maybe from stances on distinctly racial issues that black feminists might take for reasons other than their being 'feminists'.

Usually the same (white) women who disrespect women who abide by traditional gender roles, are the same women who tell muslim women how oppressed they are while talking over them and silencing them.

This is what I mean, it's not as though there are no white women who would agree with you and all black women would. You'll probably respond that you're just making a generalization but I don't think white western feminism is being falsely conflated with feminism/womanism 'in general', the basic tenet of 'feminism' (which justifies the gender biased term itself - it wouldn't, in my view, even if women really were the primary victims of sexism or systematically discriminated against in a way that men are not) is patriarchy theory; the idea that society is set up to discriminate against women for the benefit of men. The actual statistics discrediting the idea of a static and universal male privilege are completely ignored by feminists.

To emphasize my point on there being no difference between white feminism and feminism 'in general' (you talk about white women ignoring the autonomy of Muslim women when claiming how oppressed they are); the opening post briefly touches on women's bodies being objectified (which is all the more laughable considering how many pictures of half-naked, attractive men who are an 'unrealistic standard of beauty' thread starter has posted) while completely ignoring the fact that strippers, adult film stars, sex workers, celebrities, models and every day women voluntarily objectify themselves. This written by a black 'womanist', not a white feminist with a condescending attitude toward her fellow women of different cultures.

If feminism was just being pro-woman unity or woman pride or identifying with and caring about fellow women then I would have no issue with it but the problem is you make false empirical claims about society that are biased toward the interests of your in-group and you present your group self-interest under the guise of 'egalitarianism' when you hold men and women to different moral standards and pick and choose which double standards to criticize or when to oppose and even just acknowledge sex based discrimination. I have *never* come across any version of feminism that did not completely invalidate the concept of anti-male sexism and female privilege (not men being 'indirectly' harmed by anti-female sexism and male privilege but anti-male sexism and female privilege as an independent concern and not a by-product of women's issues) and make claims about society that contradict all of the available evidence. It would be meaningful to talk about anti-white racism and racist black people even under American slavery or South African apartheid when black people really were the sole (direct) victims of systematic racism so as if the actual claims about society that feminists make being completely untrue wasn't bad enough their attitude that men could never be the victims of anti-male sexism and female privilege and that women lack the power to be sexist when they are just as physically capable of carrying out the same acts that sexist men can is fundamentally irrational.

Yeah...I literally didn't read this because there is no way you could have typed this dissertation if you were just acknowledging the facts:

- I didn't say I thought feminism/womanism was the "solution". Fact.

- I was clarifying some misconceptions about feminism/woman, nothing more, nothing less. Fact.

- Feminism/womanism isn't the core issue of this thread. Fact

With that in mind, not sure why you continue to type out titangraph after titangraph about a theory you despise so much.

my bad for the tangent @Charlie_

@Peeny_Wally girl youre good. It's that most people have reading comprehension issues.

 

[Rosbailamos]

This thread is a big attack on masculinity

 

[Ubuntu1]

Yeah...I literally didn't read this because there is no way you could have typed this dissertation if you were just acknowledging the facts:

- I didn't say I thought feminism/womanism was the "solution". Fact.

- I was clarifying some misconceptions about feminism/woman, nothing more, nothing less. Fact.

- Feminism/womanism isn't the core issue of this thread. Fact

With that in mind, not sure why you continue to type out titangraph after titangraph about a theory you despise so much.

my bad for the tangent @Charlie_

If you're not willing to read someone's argument then you're in no position to criticize it. Just say something like "ha ha, didn't read" if you have to but any rebuttal you give is invalid if you openly admit that you didn't read what you're rebutting. Had you read and understood my post you would realize that your counter points are meaningless because :

1) - Stop harping on my claiming that you think feminism is the "solution" to men and women not being able to do what they want to without hindrance. The objective of 'feminism/womanism', as you described it, is being able to do what you want to without hindrance and identifying this normative ideology under an inherently gender biased term implies that it is a women's issue when it isn't. If you weren't touting the ideology you described, fine, my post had nothing to do with you, then.

2) - In my post I explained why I don't think "white" feminism is being wrongly conflated with "feminism in general". In other words, I don't recognize what you consider to be "misconceptions" about feminism as misconceptions.

3) - Feminism *is* the core issue of this thread because what's being touted as 'black womanism' is fundamentally no different than mainstream feminism with a dash of ethnocentrism. Had you read my post, you would have understood that this 'fact', as well as your second point, is in dispute which is why I don't 'acknowledge' it. Your first point was also ridiculous because you act like every post I make must be about you personally, I couldn't possibly be commenting on the flaws of the ideology in question.

(Really, Wally, did you really just say that feminism/womanism isn't the core issue of this thread? Did you really say that shit? Am I being 'punked'?)

Why you did type post after post in the Rachel Dolezal thread? For God's sake, you actually wrote to some organization to complain about her. It's not about 'despising' feminism (and I definitely do not despise all feminists, just so we're clear. I consider some of them to be misguided but good people) it's about there being something wrong with the world view. Wrong in that it makes claims about society that aren't true and wrong because it is a morally and logically inconsistent ideology. Feminism is harmful and you can't expect me to passively accept bullshit just because you, thread starter and others declare it to be true and rational. You don't so why should I?

 

[EmpressZulu]

This thread is a big attack on masculinity

No, it's not. As white male patriarchy has been the cause of many black male deaths. The problem is black men who seek to sling sexist and anti-black female victorian paridigm's onto Black women. However, truth be told these ism's are rooted in iniquity and programmed in the nervous systems of black people. Which is why if white people no-longer existed, white supremacy will continue to live, as we are the ones who now wear Ku Klux Klan regalia and insignia. Look at Rap/Hip-Hop videos, its one of the most sexist/racist paradigm's right next to the porn industry, where the value of a black woman is based on her skin tone, which is no different than black women who were placed on the auction blocks in Louisiana, Virginia, or South Carolina, where a lighter skin black woman was worth a little more than that of the darker skinned one.

Black men who look like this:

Do not place value on women who look like:

Until they have the white man's DNA and look like this....

Or just another ethnicity. These pathology's are rooted in the nervous system, and are passed down as negative energy that continue to manifest within every generation. And quiet as its kept, many mixed race and lighter skin black women are now recognizing their light skin privilege, misogynoir, and fetishization as they are now being placed right in the bucket with those darker skin black women, as black men now have access to the bodies of non-black women, where they can project their KKK style politic at all black women no matter the level of blackness.

This is why a person like Kanye West, can marry a white woman (yes, Armenians are Caucasian) who has had plastic surgery, which has been designed to imitate the black woman body, and put it on a pedestal as long as such features are no longer in black skin.

White feminist are taking note too... As in places like California where the highest percentage of interracial relationships are taking place, white women are instantly becoming single mothers

Truth be told its all a mental illness.

 

[phukkyou2]

Not all Redbones and Yellowbones were created equal.

And most definitely not all chocolate kisses and pancake syrup shawties

The reality is is that the Jews and The Pales perpetuate this type of propaganda more than we do.

You'd have a stronger case arguing that more people are wrongfully scared of Africa rather than Dark Skin

 

[EmpressZulu]

Not all Redbones and Yellowbones were created equal.

And most definitely not all chocolate kisses and pancake syrup shawties

The reality is is that the Jews and The Pales perpetuate this type of propaganda more than we do.

You'd have a stronger case arguing that more people are wrongfully scared of Africa rather than Dark Skin

This is white supremacy rhetoric.

@fortyacres&amule

don't even bother, she trolls most of the time

Anytime, somebody speak the truth you people label it as trolling. A point of view that is different from your own is not trolling. Let me make a post about white men, and their racism, no problem. However, let me make a post about any race of woman who is not black, you niggas troll and flag my post, like you are being paid to do so.

 

[zzombie]

EmpressZulu you can have a different opinion but because you intensely generalize everything , people call you a troll.

 

[D0wn]

Empress Zulu be spitting Facts... some times.

 

[BrazilianHairMoney]

I didn't read most of this, but I will say that I am shocked at the lack of support and understanding black women receive on many issues.

I agree with this shit but they need to do away with weaves, makeups and religion for me to take them serious (deep rooted self depreciation attached to the first 2 imo)

white women wear weaves.. when black women comb their hair we accused of tryna look white even when its our real hair.. not all black women want to wear bush and locs. its not self deprecation, its just style and preferences

 

[R0mp]

Empress Zulu be spitting Facts... some times.

How can you say you have grievances w/ members of a group if you want to mingle w/ those that birthed them is, I think, one of her main appeals.