Legend, Overrated, or GOAT Vol. 2: Jay-Z

[killaguwop]

I cannot fathom how people can call that man overrated, considering his catalog. I would even go as fas as to say he's underappreciated as an artist.

You have him listed as the GOAT, one of the best that have ever done it. Some say he's flat out the best that has ever done. If I don't think he fits those criteria, then by definition he's overrated. That doesn't mean I think he sucks. I just don't think he's as good as a lot of ya'll believe.

Ya'll say some ridiculous things though. How could he possibly be underappreciated? Everyone already acts like he's the greatest thing to have happen to Hip Hop. What more do you want? Do you believe the rap community should get down and collectively suck his dick or something? And his catalog isn't even all that great. Just because he's made a lot of albums doesn't mean he has a great catalog. Half of his albums are flat out forgettable, not horrible necessarily, but nothing mind boggling either.

i guess you right

 

[Lebong James]

legend, not GOAT...dude has too many crappy albums and is known more for his business savy than his music out side of hip hop forums

but i guess "what would u rather be? underpaid or overrated?"

 

[AZTG]

its really hard to judge Jays place in hip hop cause in a way he transcends hip hop. I mean, are we judging jay as a rapper, an icon, a business man, or as a brand?

looking at it objectively, judging jay as just a rapper, I would say he's a legend but not a GOAT. we all know jays best work is on GOAT status but his discography is inconsistent as fuck, plus he really hasn't spit anything GOAT worthy in years. A GOAT can't go years without really pushing lyrical barriers.

On the other hand though, look at everything Jay has accomplished. that man is a fucking brand all by himself. no one has accomplished as much in hip hop as Jay has. he is the blueprint everyone wants to follow but no body can.

I'm gonna vote him as a GOAT but when it comes to Jay this question is complex as fuck

 

[obnoxiouslyfresh]

I cannot fathom how people can call that man overrated, considering his catalog. I would even go as fas as to say he's underappreciated as an artist.

You have him listed as the GOAT, one of the best that have ever done it. Some say he's flat out the best that has ever done. If I don't think he fits those criteria, then by definition he's overrated. That doesn't mean I think he sucks. I just don't think he's as good as a lot of ya'll believe.

So if I think Ali is the greatest, does that mean that one could reasonably conclude that I think Tyson is overrated (based on popular opinion)? That's not necessarily true. That would demonstrate a very linear thought process to have you arrive there. I don't think that Rakim is the GOAT, nor have I ever found him to be that impressive personally. Notwithstanding, I still can see how his body of work has put him in a position to be heralded in such a way. I may not agree but I defnitely cannot say that I think he's undeserving of a considerable amount of people thinking just that. Overrated simply means that the acclaim is somehow unwarranted.

Ya'll say some ridiculous things though. How could he possibly be underappreciated? Everyone already acts like he's the greatest thing to have happen to Hip Hop. What more do you want? Do you believe the rap community should get down and collectively suck his dick or something? And his catalog isn't even all that great. Just because he's made a lot of albums doesn't mean he has a great catalog. Half of his albums are flat out forgettable, not horrible necessarily, but nothing mind boggling either.

I absolutely feel that he is underappreciated, as an ARTIST. As of late, he is praised foremost as an icon or for various business ventures. His catalog is exceptional. He's highly conceptual, which is part of the reason why I think he's underappreciated, and he happens to be one of very few rappers who is good at e v e r y t h i n g, in terms of his approach to music. We can go down the rubric from his story telling abilities, complexity, delivery, dexterity in cadence, wit, and just overall command of the English language. I'm not sure how many rappers can rival what he has put out.

@ The bold, he is, in fact, one of the greatesst things to happen to hip hop

B-)

 

[The Lonious Monk]

So if I think Ali is the greatest, does that mean that one could reasonably conclude that I think Tyson is overrated (based on popular opinion)? That's not necessarily true. That would demonstrate a very linear thought process to have you arrive there. I don't think that Rakim is the GOAT, nor have I ever found him to be that impressive personally. Notwithstanding, I still can see how his body of work has put him in a position to be heralded in such a way. I may not agree but I defnitely cannot say that I think he's undeserving of a considerable amount of people thinking just that. Overrated simply means that the acclaim is somehow unwarranted.

And I think the acclaim is unwarranted. If people rate him as the hands down best, and I feel he's not that at all, then IMO they are overrating him. It's just that simple. I don't think his catalog is good enough to put him there, and I think a lot of people tie his business savvy too closely to his ability as an MC.

I absolutely feel that he is underappreciated, as an ARTIST. As of late, he is praised foremost as an icon or for various business ventures. His catalog is exceptional. He's highly conceptual, which is part of the reason why I think he's underappreciated, and he happens to be one of very few rappers who is good at e v e r y t h i n g, in terms of his approach to music. We can go down the rubric from his story telling abilities, complexity, delivery, dexterity in cadence, wit, and just overall command of the English language. I'm not sure how many rappers can rival what he has put out.

He's praised more as an icon and businessman now because he's making more moves in those arenas than the music industry. It's not like people have suddenly stopped praising him as a rapper. Hell, he added an average ass verse to "Bitch Don't Kill My Vibe" and people were acting like that alone made the song into to the greatest thing to come out in the past decade.

I'd agree, that he's a very versatile rapper and he is definitely in the discussion of greatest ever. But people like you and a lot of his other fans act like anyone who suggests he's not at the very least Top 3 is crazy. That's a sign of overrating, because you can easily come up with 3 MCs that could be put ahead of him.

@ The bold, he is, in fact, one of the greatesst things to happen to hip hop

B-)

For you that might be true. In all honesty, Jay-Z could have never existed and it wouldn't really affect what I play at all. There are rappers out there, that no Hip Hop head can really say that about.

 

[D_Rap_Scholar]

Believe it or not, even after all these years of hearing Jay-Z spit on the mic, the brother is still growing on me...and there are several songs that really capture what I like most about him (Bring it On, Allure, Regrets, Street's Is Watching, Encore, Can I Live, Brookyln's Finest...just to name a few)...I dunno how I feel about the other shit he's done. Most of the stuff he's best known for sounds too commercial, and his subject matter can kinda get a little tiring - especially when he raps about his swag and money. @obnoxiouslyfresh seems to think the nigga Hov is a genius, but I've always felt creativity was one place where's been lacking. Unless I'm missing something....ya'll Hov fans wanna prove me wrong?

 

[D_Rap_Scholar]

@obnoxiouslyfresh how much of Jigga's greatness has to do with his success and how much of it has to do with the quality of his craft? Cause I'll bet you $50 bucks that if Jay-Z didn't blow up like he did, we wouldn't be having this conversation. He'd just be another nigga we'd give props to for sounding dope....but we wouldn't call him the GOAT.

That's why Jigga is kinda overrated to me...so many of his fans mistake his popularity and success as a indication to his emcee/artist skills......I think dude is nice, but the greatest of all time?!? Nahhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh........

 

[D_Rap_Scholar]

Me and The Lonious are on the same page.... to put Jay-Z in my Top 10 would be an insult to the pure emcees who are really are serious about their lyrical craft, and the artists who really want to push their work to new creative depths. lol for a while, I felt maaad guilty for not ranking Jay-Z high on my list. Until I heard Moment of Clarity......

If skills sold, truth be told, I'd probably be lyricly Talib Kweli

Truthfully, I wanna rhyme like common sense

But I did five mil, I ain't been rhymin' like common since

^^^When I heard Jay-Z say those words, I realized deep down, that I was right after all. It just goes to show that my priorities as a hip hop head were different than his. He wants to sell records, I wanna hear you spit a verse that makes my heart stop.

 

[mryounggun]

While Jay is without doubt the GOAT hands down...the whole premise of this thread is flawed. A lot of you niggas are arguing about the greatest lyricist or MC vs. the greatest rapper.

 

[StillFaggyAF]

Me and The Lonious are on the same page.... to put Jay-Z in my Top 10 would be an insult to the pure emcees who are really are serious about their lyrical craft, and the artists who really want to push their work to new creative depths. lol for a while, I felt maaad guilty for not ranking Jay-Z high on my list. Until I heard Moment of Clarity......

If skills sold, truth be told, I'd probably be lyricly Talib Kweli

Truthfully, I wanna rhyme like common sense

But I did five mil, I ain't been rhymin' like common since

^^^When I heard Jay-Z say those words, I realized deep down, that I was right after all. It just goes to show that my priorities as a hip hop head were different than his. He wants to sell records, I wanna hear you spit a verse that makes my heart stop.

name 10 emcees better than him and with better catalogs

 

[R.D.]

forever young is still dope to me *shrugs*

 

[nex gin]

There is no denying that he is one of the greatest to ever do it......and by greatest I am including his accolades stemming from his musical endeavors.....and those parlayed into his many other business accomplishments. Jay has transcended music at a level no other hip hop artist has. It would be str8 up hating to say he isn't a hip hop icon. For that alone, he is arguably the best to ever do it. If we are just talking about the overall quality of his musical catalog though??....meh......he's about half and half imo. He's got some dope shit and he's got some coasters. That still doesn't take away from the effect he and his music has had on the genre. His most standout albums to me are Reasonable Doubt, Blueprint, Black Album and American Gangster. All the others are average....maybe even subpar given what he is capable of when he's at his best.

 

[obnoxiouslyfresh]

Believe it or not, even after all these years of hearing Jay-Z spit on the mic, the brother is still growing on me...and there are several songs that really capture what I like most about him (Bring it On, Allure, Regrets, Street's Is Watching, Encore, Can I Live, Brookyln's Finest...just to name a few)...I dunno how I feel about the other shit he's done. Most of the stuff he's best known for sounds too commercial, and his subject matter can kinda get a little tiring - especially when he raps about his swag and money. @obnoxiouslyfresh seems to think the nigga Hov is a genius, but I've always felt creativity was one place where's been lacking. Unless I'm missing something....ya'll Hov fans wanna prove me wrong?

I definitely think he's a genius, at least in his own right. Unequivocally, the most clairvoyant MC, both as an artist and in his personal life, which adds to the mystique of why he simply cannot lose (as corny as that may sound). I have heard the argument that he's not creative. I can't disagree more. When you just consider how conceptual an album like American Gangster is, and that's just one example. His concept is his life, his creativity lies in the way he forms a story...a TRUE story, at that. I can't deny that man. He practically reinvents himself with everything he drops.

 

[obnoxiouslyfresh]

@obnoxiouslyfresh how much of Jigga's greatness has to do with his success and how much of it has to do with the quality of his craft? Cause I'll bet you $50 bucks that if Jay-Z didn't blow up like he did, we wouldn't be having this conversation. He'd just be another nigga we'd give props to for sounding dope....but we wouldn't call him the GOAT.

That's why Jigga is kinda overrated to me...so many of his fans mistake his popularity and success as a indication to his emcee/artist skills......I think dude is nice, but the greatest of all time?!? Nahhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh........

Honestly, it's hard to separate the two. Without the identity of the man, the story wouldn't be the same. As such, I'm not sure it would be as compelling

 

[rip.dilla]

If we are just talking about the overall quality of his musical catalog though??

Yes

That's what its all about for any rapper at all

Some people in this thread have mentioned Beyonce his wife already as accomplishments . ..

I laugh

 

[obnoxiouslyfresh]

So if I think Ali is the greatest, does that mean that one could reasonably conclude that I think Tyson is overrated (based on popular opinion)? That's not necessarily true. That would demonstrate a very linear thought process to have you arrive there. I don't think that Rakim is the GOAT, nor have I ever found him to be that impressive personally. Notwithstanding, I still can see how his body of work has put him in a position to be heralded in such a way. I may not agree but I defnitely cannot say that I think he's undeserving of a considerable amount of people thinking just that. Overrated simply means that the acclaim is somehow unwarranted.

And I think the acclaim is unwarranted. If people rate him as the hands down best, and I feel he's not that at all, then IMO they are overrating him. It's just that simple. I don't think his catalog is good enough to put him there, and I think a lot of people tie his business savvy too closely to his ability as an MC.

I absolutely feel that he is underappreciated, as an ARTIST. As of late, he is praised foremost as an icon or for various business ventures. His catalog is exceptional. He's highly conceptual, which is part of the reason why I think he's underappreciated, and he happens to be one of very few rappers who is good at e v e r y t h i n g, in terms of his approach to music. We can go down the rubric from his story telling abilities, complexity, delivery, dexterity in cadence, wit, and just overall command of the English language. I'm not sure how many rappers can rival what he has put out.

He's praised more as an icon and businessman now because he's making more moves in those arenas than the music industry. It's not like people have suddenly stopped praising him as a rapper. Hell, he added an average ass verse to "Bitch Don't Kill My Vibe" and people were acting like that alone made the song into to the greatest thing to come out in the past decade.

I'd agree, that he's a very versatile rapper and he is definitely in the discussion of greatest ever. But people like you and a lot of his other fans act like anyone who suggests he's not at the very least Top 3 is crazy. That's a sign of overrating, because you can easily come up with 3 MCs that could be put ahead of him.

Nah at all. I'm not suggesting that he should be in everyone's top 3. I'm basically saying the inverse. That calling him overrated is like asking "How can people so often mention him among the greats." To even pretend that you don't understand how is just dishonest imo.

 

[CJ]

If we are just talking about the overall quality of his musical catalog though??

Yes

That's what its all about for any rapper at all

Some people in this thread have mentioned Beyonce his wife already as accomplishments . ..

I laugh

I'm pretty sure they were being sarcastic

 

[Iceberg Slick]

Top 3 goats and he far from top 10 recently but you gotta recognize.

 

[buttuh_b]

Top 10.

 

[buttuh_b]

And he is overrated as well.