KEEP IT 100, WHEN STORES TELL YOU THAT YOU HAVE TO HAVE THE "MARK" TO BUY AND SELL FOOD..

[The_Jackal]

And the Book of Revelation has been discredited by religious scholars a long time ago, a ton of church leaders don't even accept the book anymore

Source?

I'm at work now but if you look it up, many church denominations have rejected the Book of Revelation. Even Martin Luther said it's not worthy of putting in the Bible.

most Lutheran denomination believe and up hold revelations " saying a ton of church leaders" means what??? what is exactly a ton of church leaders??? If you go to the websites of every major church in the world and you ask them about the canonical nature of revelations they will uphold it. there are Lutheran bibles with the revelation in them

I won't deny most churches now accept the Book of Revelation as canon to the Bible. It seems like the ramblings of a crazy person to me though.

The book is dripping in symbolism so therefore it won't be easy for the layman or the expert to to really understand but it does have a clear organization so it's not just ramblings

Well I've read it and a lot of it is very creative thinking for sure. Dragons and beasts coming from the ocean and ruling over everyone, until Jesus comes back? And Jesus basically waging genocide all across the world until everyone worships him?

Okay if you say so, but after 2000 years, I still don't see magical beasts with 666 written on them.

The beasts are not actually animals they are symbols for something else like i told you the book has a lot of symbols and you have to STUDY A LOT to even create a coherent and scriptural justifiable perspective on it.

I studied it and Revelation still seems like a bunch of bad dreams, if some of the visions there concretely came true by now, it would make more sense. The imagery of Jesus stabbing people to death all over the world because the beast is more loved then Jesus in the future is very bizarre.

And a red beast coming from the sky with ten crowns and seven heads, worshipped as a god worldwide? Sounds like an animal to me. If the story isn't literal and I agree it isn't, I'm not really sure what Revelation's purpose is. It's not prophetic of anything.

You didnt study it or the history around it though. Reading doesnt equal study. Goes full circle into what I said about nobody learning anything. Ill drop some sparknotes

All prophecy foremost concern Israel

Israel at the time subjects of Rome who violental put down any uprising

Enter beast seven heads ten crows. This is how I know you didnt eally study

Seven heads with rome being known as the city of seven hills

Ten crows easily being seen as ten kings.

Rev

10 And there are seven kings: five are fallen, and one is, and the other is not yet come; and when he cometh, he must continue a short space.

One is= Nero

One who reigns short =Galba

That's only one interpretation though, there are several others. Up until this day, there are all kinds of ways to interpret the book, and that's my biggest problem with it. It's not clear one way or the other, though I agree the Roman Empire is likely among the references, there is way too much that is open to personal interpretation.
http://www.ptm.org/03PT/MarApr/4ViewsRev.htm

No there is not. I don't even know what website that is but according to them and the 4 views the only one that would contradict is the futurist and that requires taking every single thing in the bible literally and that's just foolish

Well many Christians believe the main events of Revelation will literally happen as is, threadstarter and millions of other Christians believe this and many church leaders have said this as well historically. We agree it's not to be taken literally but the book is written in a way that can easily lead people to think it should be taken seriously and literally.

There is no easy way for a believer of the Bible to distinguish between the metaphorical and the literal in Revelation.

I warn everyone who hears the words of the prophecy of this book: if anyone adds to them, God will add to that person the plagues described in this book. (NRSV 22:18)



--Sounds like a book that's meant to be taken mostly literally.....the author of Revelation clearly wanted people to read the book as is, not adding words or other prophecies to it.

Nobody is adding or subtracting anything from any prophecies. All we are doing is understand the knowledge of it, the history behind it, and how it relates to the past and current day.

 

[The_Jackal]

Also like @zzombie said there are parts that are literal and parts that are symbolic and the truth is you will never know because you honestly research. When I say research I don't mean going on Google and looking up information I mean reading the bible and trying to understand it. Problem not that your an unbeliever it's that your completly dismissive of it. I don't have to believe in Greek and Roman mythology to enjoy the stories and see the symbols and culture leak into it. It's not meant to be easy

 

[Ajackson17]

Also like @zzombie said there are parts that are literal and parts that are symbolic and the truth is you will never know because you honestly research. When I say research I don't mean going on Google and looking up information I mean reading the bible and trying to understand it. Problem not that your an unbeliever it's that your completly dismissive of it. I don't have to believe in Greek and Roman mythology to enjoy the stories and see the symbols and culture leak into it. It's not meant to be easy

He is saying all of it isn't true.... we know western semites did come from the Euphrates, that's a fact. The migration is definitely true, the details....meh...not so true in my research, but I can be wrong on some accounts. Did they really go around conquering people...yes they did, but they never mention the fact that Egypt kick their ass nor Hyksos period in which they lived in. They supported the Hyksos people and got messed up when the 18th dynasty rolled around. That is a fact. But this is why a lot of atheists/agnostics/skeptics are looked down upon cause you have some guys who don't study this or don't do a comparative study on it. The archaeology shows that the migration patterns did happen, but not in the way they said it happen. To make a great story regardless if there is a lot of historical evidence you must exaggerate to make it thrilling. I think that's what he is missing.

 

[MARIO_DRO]

You need a credit/debit card or some type of username/password to buy and sell through most online stores.

OHHH, SO YOU DONT HAVE A MONEY MACHINE HOOKED UP TO YOUR COMPUTER WHEN U BUY ONLINE??? I STICK MY DOLLARS IN MY CD SLOT AND PAY JUST LIKE THAT

SHUT YO DUMB ASS UP!

 

[MARIO_DRO]

Christians up until this day can't even agree which nation Babylon represents. Many preachers say America is Babylon, but some also say it's a nation that's yet to be formed. Some say it's the Catholic Church. The book is one wild goose chase, not sure why some still take it seriously. It's easy to see why past Christian officials fought so hard to prevent it from being accepted into canon.

WHAT DOES THAT HAVE TO DO WITH THE THREAD?

My basic point is there is no reason to take the Book of Revelation seriously, so much of it is not written clearly and its prophecies are not clear either, even to many Christians. Christians can't even agree which parts are literal and which are metaphorical.

NOHOMO, BUT..

BRUH, I BEEN FOLLOWING YOUR STORY ABOUT CHRIST FOR SOME YEARS NOW... I KNOW YOU USED TO BE A CHRISTIAN AND SOMETHING HAPPEND TO WHERE YOU GAVE UP ON CHRIST AND ITS LIKE NOW YOU ARE STILL HURT AND OR UPSET AT GOD AND YOU ARE DOING YOUR BEST TO PROVE HIS WORD WRONG.... I REALLY THINK YOU WANNA BELIEVE BUT JUST WANT GOD TO HEAR YOU.

 

[Bodhi]

You need a credit/debit card or some type of username/password to buy and sell through most online stores.

SHUT YO DUMB ASS UP!

..says the grown man who thought DNA determines what language you speak.

What I'm saying is, what makes this mark any different from something like a card that's already required to buy and sell online?

In order to have these types of things, you need a social security number.

I guess I should have simplified the argument for you.

Sorry.

 

[kingblaze84]

You need a credit/debit card or some type of username/password to buy and sell through most online stores.

SHUT YO DUMB ASS UP!

..says the grown man who thought DNA determines what language you speak.

What I'm saying is, what makes this mark any different from something like a card that's already required to buy and sell online?

In order to have these types of things, you need a social security number.

I guess I should have simplified the argument for you.

Sorry.

LOL but yeah, we use number marks to identify us already. It's been this way for a long time now.

 

[kingblaze84]

Christians up until this day can't even agree which nation Babylon represents. Many preachers say America is Babylon, but some also say it's a nation that's yet to be formed. Some say it's the Catholic Church. The book is one wild goose chase, not sure why some still take it seriously. It's easy to see why past Christian officials fought so hard to prevent it from being accepted into canon.

WHAT DOES THAT HAVE TO DO WITH THE THREAD?

My basic point is there is no reason to take the Book of Revelation seriously, so much of it is not written clearly and its prophecies are not clear either, even to many Christians. Christians can't even agree which parts are literal and which are metaphorical.

NOHOMO, BUT..

BRUH, I BEEN FOLLOWING YOUR STORY ABOUT CHRIST FOR SOME YEARS NOW... I KNOW YOU USED TO BE A CHRISTIAN AND SOMETHING HAPPEND TO WHERE YOU GAVE UP ON CHRIST AND ITS LIKE NOW YOU ARE STILL HURT AND OR UPSET AT GOD AND YOU ARE DOING YOUR BEST TO PROVE HIS WORD WRONG.... I REALLY THINK YOU WANNA BELIEVE BUT JUST WANT GOD TO HEAR YOU.

Well I would say my faith in the Bible god died away when I realized my prayers for world peace and less suffering worldwide didn't really go anywhere, and the year 2000 coming and nothing happening didn't help either lol. Then I started reading more about the prophecies of the Messiah and realized Jesus failed a ton of them and therefore was not a real messiah. And I was always the skeptical type anyway, I question almost everything until I see proof to believe it. It's not a personal thing as you make it seem, just more of an observation thing.

The funny thing though is that I am open to a higher power being out there, but I see very little reason to think the Bible god is real. The Book of Revelation doesn't help the Bible's case.

 

[kingblaze84]

Also like @zzombie said there are parts that are literal and parts that are symbolic and the truth is you will never know because you honestly research. When I say research I don't mean going on Google and looking up information I mean reading the bible and trying to understand it. Problem not that your an unbeliever it's that your completly dismissive of it. I don't have to believe in Greek and Roman mythology to enjoy the stories and see the symbols and culture leak into it. It's not meant to be easy

I enjoy mythology stories too, I've read many of the stories of past gods and find them interesting as well. But in the end, I probably am dismissive of Revelation. I guess I'm dismissive of it because so much of it is written as a giant, incoherent dream, and I always hear different answers from Christians themselves on which parts are literal and which are not. I've asked Christians if Jesus is really going to butcher billions of people worldwide with a sword and plagues for supporting different gods or being non-believers, and I've always gotten different answers.

I just don't think it's well written book for a so called prophecy, but as a story book, some parts are a little interesting.

 

[The_Jackal]

Also like @zzombie said there are parts that are literal and parts that are symbolic and the truth is you will never know because you honestly research. When I say research I don't mean going on Google and looking up information I mean reading the bible and trying to understand it. Problem not that your an unbeliever it's that your completly dismissive of it. I don't have to believe in Greek and Roman mythology to enjoy the stories and see the symbols and culture leak into it. It's not meant to be easy

I enjoy mythology stories too, I've read many of the stories of past gods and find them interesting as well. But in the end, I probably am dismissive of Revelation. I guess I'm dismissive of it because so much of it is written as a giant, incoherent dream, and I always hear different answers from Christians themselves on which parts are literal and which are not. I've asked Christians if Jesus is really going to butcher billions of people worldwide with a sword and plagues for supporting different gods or being non-believers, and I've always gotten different answers.

I just don't think it's well written book for a so called prophecy, but as a story book, some parts are a little interesting.

First bonded I honestly think your lying. Revelation is no different then most end time prophecies if you can comprehend those then you can at least grasp a little knowledge from it.

For the second bolded just keep it 100 your dismissive of it because you dislike/hate christianity and you didlike/hate christian God. Stop dancing around the topic like you don't when it's clear you do.

Also another error thst you face is by the time Jesus returns there are no different Gods the world wholly worships the beast. As far as the claim of butchering as in killing people with a sword.

Rev 19.15

And out of his mouth goeth a sharp sword, that with it he should smite the nations:

Rev 1.16

And he had in his right hand seven stars: and out of his mouth went a sharp twoedged sword

Rev 2.16

Repent; or else I will come unto thee quickly, and will fight against them with the sword of my mouth.

Along with a few other verses there is a reason why each time Jesus is mentioned with a sword it comes from his mouth but you rather not understand it and continue to justify your hatred of the religion

 

[kingblaze84]

Also like @zzombie said there are parts that are literal and parts that are symbolic and the truth is you will never know because you honestly research. When I say research I don't mean going on Google and looking up information I mean reading the bible and trying to understand it. Problem not that your an unbeliever it's that your completly dismissive of it. I don't have to believe in Greek and Roman mythology to enjoy the stories and see the symbols and culture leak into it. It's not meant to be easy

I enjoy mythology stories too, I've read many of the stories of past gods and find them interesting as well. But in the end, I probably am dismissive of Revelation. I guess I'm dismissive of it because so much of it is written as a giant, incoherent dream, and I always hear different answers from Christians themselves on which parts are literal and which are not. I've asked Christians if Jesus is really going to butcher billions of people worldwide with a sword and plagues for supporting different gods or being non-believers, and I've always gotten different answers.

I just don't think it's well written book for a so called prophecy, but as a story book, some parts are a little interesting.

First bonded I honestly think your lying. Revelation is no different then most end time prophecies if you can comprehend those then you can at least grasp a little knowledge from it.

For the second bolded just keep it 100 your dismissive of it because you dislike/hate christianity and you didlike/hate christian God. Stop dancing around the topic like you don't when it's clear you do.

Also another error thst you face is by the time Jesus returns there are no different Gods the world wholly worships the beast. As far as the claim of butchering as in killing people with a sword.

Rev 19.15

And out of his mouth goeth a sharp sword, that with it he should smite the nations:

Rev 1.16

And he had in his right hand seven stars: and out of his mouth went a sharp twoedged sword

Rev 2.16

Repent; or else I will come unto thee quickly, and will fight against them with the sword of my mouth.

Along with a few other verses there is a reason why each time Jesus is mentioned with a sword it comes from his mouth but you rather not understand it and continue to justify your hatred of the religion

I have no reason to lie about enjoying mythology stories, I've mentioned the Hindu, African and Native American gods many times here. I should have admitted to also disliking a bunch of the stories, and I fully admit to disliking the Bible as a whole. The Book of Revelation is a small part of why I dismiss the Bible, but I'll note I disliked the Book of Revelation even in my Christian days.

And I get Jesus's mouth/sword reference is often interpreted to mean he'll preach forcefully again, but what about the comets and plagues that Jesus will send to commit genocide against a huge part of humanity? I've heard priests and pastors interpret the part of Jesus' robe being soaked in blood as Jesus being soaked in the blood of his enemies, the worshippers of the beast. Jesus supposedly will also slaughter all the kings of the Earth and take their crowns, right? You can say one thing but once again, there are so many open ended interpretations of the book that it's hard for me to take it seriously.

 

[MARIO_DRO]

You need a credit/debit card or some type of username/password to buy and sell through most online stores.

SHUT YO DUMB ASS UP!

..says the grown man who thought DNA determines what language you speak.

What I'm saying is, what makes this mark any different from something like a card that's already required to buy and sell online?

In order to have these types of things, you need a social security number.

I guess I should have simplified the argument for you.

Sorry.

..TRAVEL THE WORLD SOMETIMES.. EVERYONE DOESNT HAVE A SSN

 

[Bodhi]

You need a credit/debit card or some type of username/password to buy and sell through most online stores.

SHUT YO DUMB ASS UP!

..says the grown man who thought DNA determines what language you speak.

What I'm saying is, what makes this mark any different from something like a card that's already required to buy and sell online?

In order to have these types of things, you need a social security number.

I guess I should have simplified the argument for you.

Sorry.

..TRAVEL THE WORLD SOMETIMES.. EVERYONE DOESNT HAVE A SSN

You don't say...?

That was only an example.

Get it together.

 

[The_Jackal]

Also like @zzombie said there are parts that are literal and parts that are symbolic and the truth is you will never know because you honestly research. When I say research I don't mean going on Google and looking up information I mean reading the bible and trying to understand it. Problem not that your an unbeliever it's that your completly dismissive of it. I don't have to believe in Greek and Roman mythology to enjoy the stories and see the symbols and culture leak into it. It's not meant to be easy

I enjoy mythology stories too, I've read many of the stories of past gods and find them interesting as well. But in the end, I probably am dismissive of Revelation. I guess I'm dismissive of it because so much of it is written as a giant, incoherent dream, and I always hear different answers from Christians themselves on which parts are literal and which are not. I've asked Christians if Jesus is really going to butcher billions of people worldwide with a sword and plagues for supporting different gods or being non-believers, and I've always gotten different answers.

I just don't think it's well written book for a so called prophecy, but as a story book, some parts are a little interesting.

First bonded I honestly think your lying. Revelation is no different then most end time prophecies if you can comprehend those then you can at least grasp a little knowledge from it.

For the second bolded just keep it 100 your dismissive of it because you dislike/hate christianity and you didlike/hate christian God. Stop dancing around the topic like you don't when it's clear you do.

Also another error thst you face is by the time Jesus returns there are no different Gods the world wholly worships the beast. As far as the claim of butchering as in killing people with a sword.

Rev 19.15

And out of his mouth goeth a sharp sword, that with it he should smite the nations:

Rev 1.16

And he had in his right hand seven stars: and out of his mouth went a sharp twoedged sword

Rev 2.16

Repent; or else I will come unto thee quickly, and will fight against them with the sword of my mouth.

Along with a few other verses there is a reason why each time Jesus is mentioned with a sword it comes from his mouth but you rather not understand it and continue to justify your hatred of the religion

I have no reason to lie about enjoying mythology stories, I've mentioned the Hindu, African and Native American gods many times here. I should have admitted to also disliking a bunch of the stories, and I fully admit to disliking the Bible as a whole. The Book of Revelation is a small part of why I dismiss the Bible, but I'll note I disliked the Book of Revelation even in my Christian days.

And I get Jesus's mouth/sword reference is often interpreted to mean he'll preach forcefully again, but what about the comets and plagues that Jesus will send to commit genocide against a huge part of humanity? I've heard priests and pastors interpret the part of Jesus' robe being soaked in blood as Jesus being soaked in the blood of his enemies, the worshippers of the beast. Jesus supposedly will also slaughter all the kings of the Earth and take their crowns, right? You can say one thing but once again, there are so many open ended interpretations of the book that it's hard for me to take it seriously.

You do because you come across as a habitual liar who constantly flip flops on his stance.

By the time plagues even come every righteous man/women is already spirited away the only evil that will be done will be against evil men.

To the second bolded again that's wrong.

Isaiah 63

2 Wherefore art thou red in thine apparel, and thy garments like him that treadeth in the winefat?

3 I have trodden the winepress alone; and of the people there was none with me: for I will tread them in mine anger, and trample them in my fury; and their blood shall be sprinkled upon my garments, and I will stain all my raiment.

4 For the day of vengeance is in mine heart, and the year of my redeemed is come.

5 And I looked, and there was none to help; and I wondered that there was none to uphold: therefore mine own arm brought salvation unto me; and my fury, it upheld me.

6 And I will tread down the people in mine anger, and make them drunk in my fury, and I will bring down their strength to the earth.

7 ¶I will mention the lovingkindnesses of the Lord, and the praises of the Lord, according to all that the Lord hath bestowed on us, and the great goodness toward the house of Israel, which he hath bestowed on them according to his mercies, and according to the multitude of his lovingkindnesses.



Its not in slaughter its in defense of the saints who have been slaughtered by the antichrist.

 

[rodneyskinner]

using number as symbols does not equal numerology. numerology is much more complex than that and a wide variety of cultures have used numbers as symbols including the Israelite one rev 13:18 is not asking you to figure out the future using numbers it's just giving you an identification card for the ultimate anti-Christ

that is all it's not asking you to add up the numbers and figure out the future,

So a prophecy is not telling you the future. Here's the problem. The number 6 in astrology is a man's number. If they just used it to identify a person sort of like a street address 1 thing. They used the context of the word in its astrological meaning. So the number 6 being a man's number got its meaning from Astrology. More importantly it is predicting a future event where you will only be able to trade and is a sign of the time. The bible account would not be translated without the use of astrological sources.

You can only use the bible to understand the symbols in the bible. You are assuming that how people in astrology used 6 is how the bible is using 6. Astrology is also a varied practice not all astrological systems are the same.

Prophecy tells you the future, it's limited information. astrology is an attempt to learn more than what the prophecy provides.

Not when the audience you are preaching know's astrology. It would be like me making a religion where you use the force and fight with light sabers. Now it would be like oh Star Wars. 5K Years from now you'd be like this from the word of God. You can't take from the other religions around you and act as if you are the creator or innovator.

 

[zzombie]

using number as symbols does not equal numerology. numerology is much more complex than that and a wide variety of cultures have used numbers as symbols including the Israelite one rev 13:18 is not asking you to figure out the future using numbers it's just giving you an identification card for the ultimate anti-Christ

that is all it's not asking you to add up the numbers and figure out the future,

So a prophecy is not telling you the future. Here's the problem. The number 6 in astrology is a man's number. If they just used it to identify a person sort of like a street address 1 thing. They used the context of the word in its astrological meaning. So the number 6 being a man's number got its meaning from Astrology. More importantly it is predicting a future event where you will only be able to trade and is a sign of the time. The bible account would not be translated without the use of astrological sources.

You can only use the bible to understand the symbols in the bible. You are assuming that how people in astrology used 6 is how the bible is using 6. Astrology is also a varied practice not all astrological systems are the same.

Prophecy tells you the future, it's limited information. astrology is an attempt to learn more than what the prophecy provides.

Not when the audience you are preaching know's astrology. It would be like me making a religion where you use the force and fight with light sabers. Now it would be like oh Star Wars. 5K Years from now you'd be like this from the word of God. You can't take from the other religions around you and act as if you are the creator or innovator.

Most Christians at the time that revelations would have been prophesied would have been poor people,uneducated people, lower class people,slaves so i doubt many of them knew anything about astrology also The problems is who is the audience for a prophecy??? is it for the people living now or 10 years from now ???how about 1000 years from now??? Christianity is an evolution of Judaism to understand Christianity on a deeper level it is necessary to understand Judaism and i don't mean modern Judaism. The question is what was early Judaism and where and how did it originate. How you define what this Judaism was will give you your answer to how you look at christian prophecy.

 

[luke1733]

WHAT ARE YOU GOING TO DO?

ACCEPT THE SIGN AND TRY TO SAVE THE LIFE OF YOU AND YOUR FAMILY

OR

WILL YOU SIT BACK AND THINK, " THAT DAM BIBLE DOES SPEAK ABOUT THE MARK OF THE BEAST AND THAT I WONT BE ABLE TO BUY ANYTHING WITHOUT IT. MAYBE I SHOULD FOLLOW CHRIST BECAUSE IT'S GETTING REAL OUT HERE..

ALL B.S. ASIDE.. YOU CAN BELIEVE IN WHO AND WHAT YOU WANT.. BUT WHEN THE TIME COMES, WILL YOU LEAN UNTO YOUR OWN UNDERSTANDING OR WILL YOU TAKE HEED TO THE WARNINGS THAT THE BIBLE PUT OUT ABOUT THIS THAT HAS BEEN OUT FOR HUNDREDS OF YEARS?

Revelation 13:17 And no one could buy or sell anything without that mark, which was either the name of the beast or the number representing his name.

I think it's going to be something like you can live to be 150 years old and be healthy, but this microchip is going to be able to fix and regulate your body by being able to receive medicines and distribute them in the blood stream to kill cancers and other diseases while also giving you nutritional value stuff.

This will be the real sales point. Do you want to be alive and healthy at 150 years old and functional in society or dead at 78 and broke and seen as a recluse?

Also identity theft is also leading the way to making this a way to prevent identity theft in the future.

Big decision, especially when people see it.

However, that chip was never stated in the bible. This is the quote: Revelations 13:16It also forced all people, great and small, rich and poor, free and slave, to receive a mark on their right hands or on their foreheads, 17so that they could not buy or sell unless they had the mark, which is the name of the beast or the number of its name.

However, aside from all that the previous verse 15 states basically everyone who doesn't worship the beast will be killed so............many won't ever have anything to worry about on that number/chip/beast

"The second beast was given power to give breath to the image of the first beast, so that the image could speak and cause all who refused to worship the image to be killed."

 

[Inglewood_B]

How come we can all agree to be dismissive of other ancient religions/pantheons as myth but when it comes to the Abrahamic religions it's "hate"?

And why is atheism considered by most here to be anti-Christian?

 

[Ajackson17]

How come we can all agree to be dismissive of other ancient religions/pantheons as myth but when it comes to the Abrahamic religions it's "hate"?

And why is atheism considered by most here to be anti-Christian?

Because Christianity is seen as the correct position on life and atheism is the most anti version of it. So when people think of these myths they don't even entertain it in the idea that their belief system is on the same level. They see the scriptures as evidence as truth even when you pit it against archealogical sites and new finds they have cognitive dissonance.

 

[CracceR]

im taking the mark b i need froot loops and fresh sneakers