Is hov officially the GROAT?

[GetoBoy]

Niggaz tryna grade in a bubble with a whole bunch of if you take this away or add this or this best ain't better than this best or this bad ain't better than this bad that's not how you grade you take EVERYTHING good bad best worse longevity highs lows impact influence diversity just everything that actually happened you see who checks the most boxes......

Y'all grading on a curve it's like taking a test and the teacher saying "his best answer is better than your best answer and his worse answer ain't as bad as your worse answer so we just not gonna take into account the rest of the test and give him the better grade"

If your comparing music...how would you like to compare

Album vs album.....highs vs highs and lows vs lows...consistency is a big factor...thats why Jay' s discography isn't that of Pac or nas

Jay-Z has had a tail of two careers....before blueprint great....after blueprint...not so much

You judge it all you don't judge "well Jay never had a illmatic and his worse album is worse than Nas worse so Nas is greater" the thing that I feel makes Jay the greatest is becuz he's been able to be versatile and still be great for 20 years meanwhile a rapper like Nas has for the most part stuck to his tried and true formula which isn't a bad thing but to be able to try new styles new flows new sounds new trends new formulas and be great through all of em imo makes you the greatest I mean he took a theme from a movie and damn near formed a classic out of it he took his playboy drug dealer ways and made classics out of it then took his cheating and turned that into a classic

For me your diversity of your greatness and the longevity of your greatness along with your skills and impact of what you say shows me if you're the greatest

But Jay-Z fails in the comparison of diversity next to nas....nas recreated his whole career with stillmatic...nas does emotion in songs better than Jay-Z....sure jayz recreated sound but like I said half of his career has not been great...so trying new things doesn't mean it's great

Nas has been more consistent with putting out quality albums which is why he is better than jayz....jayz has had a run since blueprint with 1 really good album of American gangster and a few duds

Nas recreated his whole career with stillmatic becuz ppl wasn't checking for him no more like that at that time.... Jay hasn't been as consistent sound wise as Nas may appear to be becuz like I said Nas sticks to his formula and imo that doesn't make you greater becuz you found a pocket that works for you and you stick to it greatness is being able to enter any pocket and show greatness and there isn't a pocket sound trend formula style etc that Jay hasn't shown he can be elite at becuz we all know Jay over soulful beats is him at his best so I'm sure he know he can give us the same thing in the same pocket album after album after album and look consistent doing that but imo that don't show greatness

Niggas kill me with this shit. Nas sold over 3 million albums in 1999, how was nobody checking for him. He took the year 2000 off.

I guess kinda the same way ppl say nobody was checking for reasonable doubt when it came out and the album went gold when it came out welcome to the world of myths

Gold In the 90s wasn't shit tho

There's no reason to double quote but Jay-Z has not been able to go into multiple pockets and be great...he isn't as well rounded as some other artists

People been waiting for an insight on Jay-Zs life...he brought that on 4:44 and did not do it very well imo....thats just the latest example

Yes his flow and lyrics are great but his lane is not putting emotion to a song...it doesn't translate

He didn't do a good job on this album and gold wasn't shit??? Smh I can tell you really don't like Jay with those takes but I guess that's your opinion you are in the VERY small minority which should tell you something but hey that's your opinion

 

[bck145]

Niggaz tryna grade in a bubble with a whole bunch of if you take this away or add this or this best ain't better than this best or this bad ain't better than this bad that's not how you grade you take EVERYTHING good bad best worse longevity highs lows impact influence diversity just everything that actually happened you see who checks the most boxes......

Y'all grading on a curve it's like taking a test and the teacher saying "his best answer is better than your best answer and his worse answer ain't as bad as your worse answer so we just not gonna take into account the rest of the test and give him the better grade"

If your comparing music...how would you like to compare

Album vs album.....highs vs highs and lows vs lows...consistency is a big factor...thats why Jay' s discography isn't that of Pac or nas

Jay-Z has had a tail of two careers....before blueprint great....after blueprint...not so much

You judge it all you don't judge "well Jay never had a illmatic and his worse album is worse than Nas worse so Nas is greater" the thing that I feel makes Jay the greatest is becuz he's been able to be versatile and still be great for 20 years meanwhile a rapper like Nas has for the most part stuck to his tried and true formula which isn't a bad thing but to be able to try new styles new flows new sounds new trends new formulas and be great through all of em imo makes you the greatest I mean he took a theme from a movie and damn near formed a classic out of it he took his playboy drug dealer ways and made classics out of it then took his cheating and turned that into a classic

For me your diversity of your greatness and the longevity of your greatness along with your skills and impact of what you say shows me if you're the greatest

But Jay-Z fails in the comparison of diversity next to nas....nas recreated his whole career with stillmatic...nas does emotion in songs better than Jay-Z....sure jayz recreated sound but like I said half of his career has not been great...so trying new things doesn't mean it's great

Nas has been more consistent with putting out quality albums which is why he is better than jayz....jayz has had a run since blueprint with 1 really good album of American gangster and a few duds

Nas recreated his whole career with stillmatic becuz ppl wasn't checking for him no more like that at that time.... Jay hasn't been as consistent sound wise as Nas may appear to be becuz like I said Nas sticks to his formula and imo that doesn't make you greater becuz you found a pocket that works for you and you stick to it greatness is being able to enter any pocket and show greatness and there isn't a pocket sound trend formula style etc that Jay hasn't shown he can be elite at becuz we all know Jay over soulful beats is him at his best so I'm sure he know he can give us the same thing in the same pocket album after album after album and look consistent doing that but imo that don't show greatness

Niggas kill me with this shit. Nas sold over 3 million albums in 1999, how was nobody checking for him. He took the year 2000 off.

I guess kinda the same way ppl say nobody was checking for reasonable doubt when it came out and the album went gold when it came out welcome to the world of myths

Gold In the 90s wasn't shit tho

There's no reason to double quote but Jay-Z has not been able to go into multiple pockets and be great...he isn't as well rounded as some other artists

People been waiting for an insight on Jay-Zs life...he brought that on 4:44 and did not do it very well imo....thats just the latest example

Yes his flow and lyrics are great but his lane is not putting emotion to a song...it doesn't translate

He didn't do a good job on this album and gold wasn't shit??? Smh I can tell you really don't like Jay with those takes but I guess that's your opinion you are in the VERY small minority which should tell you something but hey that's your opinion

Hes my third favorite rapper...but when you are talking about the elites you have to be nit pick...but yeah gold wasn't shit..who are you fooling acting like everyone didn't go gold or platinum back then

And no I don't think 4:44 Is a good album at all

 

[DNB1]

Of course.

 

[GetoBoy]

Niggaz tryna grade in a bubble with a whole bunch of if you take this away or add this or this best ain't better than this best or this bad ain't better than this bad that's not how you grade you take EVERYTHING good bad best worse longevity highs lows impact influence diversity just everything that actually happened you see who checks the most boxes......

Y'all grading on a curve it's like taking a test and the teacher saying "his best answer is better than your best answer and his worse answer ain't as bad as your worse answer so we just not gonna take into account the rest of the test and give him the better grade"

If your comparing music...how would you like to compare

Album vs album.....highs vs highs and lows vs lows...consistency is a big factor...thats why Jay' s discography isn't that of Pac or nas

Jay-Z has had a tail of two careers....before blueprint great....after blueprint...not so much

You judge it all you don't judge "well Jay never had a illmatic and his worse album is worse than Nas worse so Nas is greater" the thing that I feel makes Jay the greatest is becuz he's been able to be versatile and still be great for 20 years meanwhile a rapper like Nas has for the most part stuck to his tried and true formula which isn't a bad thing but to be able to try new styles new flows new sounds new trends new formulas and be great through all of em imo makes you the greatest I mean he took a theme from a movie and damn near formed a classic out of it he took his playboy drug dealer ways and made classics out of it then took his cheating and turned that into a classic

For me your diversity of your greatness and the longevity of your greatness along with your skills and impact of what you say shows me if you're the greatest

But Jay-Z fails in the comparison of diversity next to nas....nas recreated his whole career with stillmatic...nas does emotion in songs better than Jay-Z....sure jayz recreated sound but like I said half of his career has not been great...so trying new things doesn't mean it's great

Nas has been more consistent with putting out quality albums which is why he is better than jayz....jayz has had a run since blueprint with 1 really good album of American gangster and a few duds

Nas recreated his whole career with stillmatic becuz ppl wasn't checking for him no more like that at that time.... Jay hasn't been as consistent sound wise as Nas may appear to be becuz like I said Nas sticks to his formula and imo that doesn't make you greater becuz you found a pocket that works for you and you stick to it greatness is being able to enter any pocket and show greatness and there isn't a pocket sound trend formula style etc that Jay hasn't shown he can be elite at becuz we all know Jay over soulful beats is him at his best so I'm sure he know he can give us the same thing in the same pocket album after album after album and look consistent doing that but imo that don't show greatness

Niggas kill me with this shit. Nas sold over 3 million albums in 1999, how was nobody checking for him. He took the year 2000 off.

I guess kinda the same way ppl say nobody was checking for reasonable doubt when it came out and the album went gold when it came out welcome to the world of myths

Gold In the 90s wasn't shit tho

There's no reason to double quote but Jay-Z has not been able to go into multiple pockets and be great...he isn't as well rounded as some other artists

People been waiting for an insight on Jay-Zs life...he brought that on 4:44 and did not do it very well imo....thats just the latest example

Yes his flow and lyrics are great but his lane is not putting emotion to a song...it doesn't translate

He didn't do a good job on this album and gold wasn't shit??? Smh I can tell you really don't like Jay with those takes but I guess that's your opinion you are in the VERY small minority which should tell you something but hey that's your opinion

Hes my third favorite rapper...but when you are talking about the elites you have to be nit pick...but yeah gold wasn't shit..who are you fooling acting like everyone didn't go gold or platinum back then

And no I don't think 4:44 Is a good album at all

If you go gold that's something you can't say nobody was checking for something that went gold but in the same breathe feel like ppl were checking for Nas in 99 becuz he sold 3 mill or whatever when he dropped 2 albums that year..... That sense doesn't add up to me

And by 95% of hip hop 4:44 was a great album and a classic by alot so I respect your opinion but you have to come to grips with the idea that you might not be right

 

[rip.dilla]

Niggaz tryna grade in a bubble with a whole bunch of if you take this away or add this or this best ain't better than this best or this bad ain't better than this bad that's not how you grade you take EVERYTHING good bad best worse longevity highs lows impact influence diversity just everything that actually happened you see who checks the most boxes......

Y'all grading on a curve it's like taking a test and the teacher saying "his best answer is better than your best answer and his worse answer ain't as bad as your worse answer so we just not gonna take into account the rest of the test and give him the better grade"

If your comparing music...how would you like to compare

Album vs album.....highs vs highs and lows vs lows...consistency is a big factor...thats why Jay' s discography isn't that of Pac or nas

Jay-Z has had a tail of two careers....before blueprint great....after blueprint...not so much

You judge it all you don't judge "well Jay never had a illmatic and his worse album is worse than Nas worse so Nas is greater" the thing that I feel makes Jay the greatest is becuz he's been able to be versatile and still be great for 20 years meanwhile a rapper like Nas has for the most part stuck to his tried and true formula which isn't a bad thing but to be able to try new styles new flows new sounds new trends new formulas and be great through all of em imo makes you the greatest I mean he took a theme from a movie and damn near formed a classic out of it he took his playboy drug dealer ways and made classics out of it then took his cheating and turned that into a classic

For me your diversity of your greatness and the longevity of your greatness along with your skills and impact of what you say shows me if you're the greatest

But Jay-Z fails in the comparison of diversity next to nas....nas recreated his whole career with stillmatic...nas does emotion in songs better than Jay-Z....sure jayz recreated sound but like I said half of his career has not been great...so trying new things doesn't mean it's great

Nas has been more consistent with putting out quality albums which is why he is better than jayz....jayz has had a run since blueprint with 1 really good album of American gangster and a few duds

Nas recreated his whole career with stillmatic becuz ppl wasn't checking for him no more like that at that time.... Jay hasn't been as consistent sound wise as Nas may appear to be becuz like I said Nas sticks to his formula and imo that doesn't make you greater becuz you found a pocket that works for you and you stick to it greatness is being able to enter any pocket and show greatness and there isn't a pocket sound trend formula style etc that Jay hasn't shown he can be elite at becuz we all know Jay over soulful beats is him at his best so I'm sure he know he can give us the same thing in the same pocket album after album after album and look consistent doing that but imo that don't show greatness

Niggas kill me with this shit. Nas sold over 3 million albums in 1999, how was nobody checking for him. He took the year 2000 off.

I guess kinda the same way ppl say nobody was checking for reasonable doubt when it came out and the album went gold when it came out welcome to the world of myths

Gold In the 90s wasn't shit tho

There's no reason to double quote but Jay-Z has not been able to go into multiple pockets and be great...he isn't as well rounded as some other artists

People been waiting for an insight on Jay-Zs life...he brought that on 4:44 and did not do it very well imo....thats just the latest example

Yes his flow and lyrics are great but his lane is not putting emotion to a song...it doesn't translate

He didn't do a good job on this album and gold wasn't shit??? Smh I can tell you really don't like Jay with those takes but I guess that's your opinion you are in the VERY small minority which should tell you something but hey that's your opinion

Hes my third favorite rapper...but when you are talking about the elites you have to be nit pick...but yeah gold wasn't shit..who are you fooling acting like everyone didn't go gold or platinum back then

And no I don't think 4:44 Is a good album at all

And by 95% of hip hop 4:44 was a great album and a classic by alot so I respect your opinion but you have to come to grips with the idea that you might not be right

Hahahahaha my nigga.... where you getting your stats from?

 

[GetoBoy]

Niggaz tryna grade in a bubble with a whole bunch of if you take this away or add this or this best ain't better than this best or this bad ain't better than this bad that's not how you grade you take EVERYTHING good bad best worse longevity highs lows impact influence diversity just everything that actually happened you see who checks the most boxes......

Y'all grading on a curve it's like taking a test and the teacher saying "his best answer is better than your best answer and his worse answer ain't as bad as your worse answer so we just not gonna take into account the rest of the test and give him the better grade"

If your comparing music...how would you like to compare

Album vs album.....highs vs highs and lows vs lows...consistency is a big factor...thats why Jay' s discography isn't that of Pac or nas

Jay-Z has had a tail of two careers....before blueprint great....after blueprint...not so much

You judge it all you don't judge "well Jay never had a illmatic and his worse album is worse than Nas worse so Nas is greater" the thing that I feel makes Jay the greatest is becuz he's been able to be versatile and still be great for 20 years meanwhile a rapper like Nas has for the most part stuck to his tried and true formula which isn't a bad thing but to be able to try new styles new flows new sounds new trends new formulas and be great through all of em imo makes you the greatest I mean he took a theme from a movie and damn near formed a classic out of it he took his playboy drug dealer ways and made classics out of it then took his cheating and turned that into a classic

For me your diversity of your greatness and the longevity of your greatness along with your skills and impact of what you say shows me if you're the greatest

But Jay-Z fails in the comparison of diversity next to nas....nas recreated his whole career with stillmatic...nas does emotion in songs better than Jay-Z....sure jayz recreated sound but like I said half of his career has not been great...so trying new things doesn't mean it's great

Nas has been more consistent with putting out quality albums which is why he is better than jayz....jayz has had a run since blueprint with 1 really good album of American gangster and a few duds

Nas recreated his whole career with stillmatic becuz ppl wasn't checking for him no more like that at that time.... Jay hasn't been as consistent sound wise as Nas may appear to be becuz like I said Nas sticks to his formula and imo that doesn't make you greater becuz you found a pocket that works for you and you stick to it greatness is being able to enter any pocket and show greatness and there isn't a pocket sound trend formula style etc that Jay hasn't shown he can be elite at becuz we all know Jay over soulful beats is him at his best so I'm sure he know he can give us the same thing in the same pocket album after album after album and look consistent doing that but imo that don't show greatness

Niggas kill me with this shit. Nas sold over 3 million albums in 1999, how was nobody checking for him. He took the year 2000 off.

I guess kinda the same way ppl say nobody was checking for reasonable doubt when it came out and the album went gold when it came out welcome to the world of myths

Gold In the 90s wasn't shit tho

There's no reason to double quote but Jay-Z has not been able to go into multiple pockets and be great...he isn't as well rounded as some other artists

People been waiting for an insight on Jay-Zs life...he brought that on 4:44 and did not do it very well imo....thats just the latest example

Yes his flow and lyrics are great but his lane is not putting emotion to a song...it doesn't translate

He didn't do a good job on this album and gold wasn't shit??? Smh I can tell you really don't like Jay with those takes but I guess that's your opinion you are in the VERY small minority which should tell you something but hey that's your opinion

Hes my third favorite rapper...but when you are talking about the elites you have to be nit pick...but yeah gold wasn't shit..who are you fooling acting like everyone didn't go gold or platinum back then

And no I don't think 4:44 Is a good album at all

And by 95% of hip hop 4:44 was a great album and a classic by alot so I respect your opinion but you have to come to grips with the idea that you might not be right

Hahahahaha my nigga.... where you getting your stats from?

Just taking mental notes from everyone from reviewers to celebs to niggas on the internet haven't heard many say it's not a good album a vast majority have called it a great album didn't think you'd take the 95% literally........ Nevermind I should have known you would smh

 

[rip.dilla]

Why wouldn't I take it literally? It looked like you were cooking up numbers just 'cos you a super stan...

 

[Revolver Ocelot]

i think niggas need to know that there is a difference between great and best..

shit dont aways run concurrent..

Mayweather is technically a better boxer than Ali..

but he aint greater than..

jus sayin..

Jay is technically a better rapper than big. But he ain't greater than.

20+ yrs >> 3yrs

Biggie the BoJack of hiphop..

All of that and he doesn't have a better performance than victory, and he doesn't have a better album than ready to die........

When you distill it all the way down to just gettin in the both and rapping.....

Big > Jay

my nigga i like Big over Jay..

im not the biggest Jay fan at all..

but c'mo!!? Big aint take hiphop to this level.. Jay did..

this is why Jordan is greater than Kareem but ill slap fire to a nigga sayin he better..

Jordan took the NBA to the next level..

Biggie was a fuckin artist..

as dope as he was he was jus that..

street level shit..

we talkin about compare that to a fuckin music mogul who went and owned his own company and was president of the company that owned his conpany..

gettin his masters ownin stakes in a sports team.. big kickin it wit Buffet..

when Hilliary bitch ass needed votes they aint call Common..

Jays that nigga man..

it aint even nothin to argue..

Well then how come Jay wasn't doing that when Big was alive? How come when they was both here Jay of the two of them was considered more of the low level street nigga? Even when Big died Big was ahead of Jay in mainstream success so if Big wouldna died I have every reason to believe everything Jay has and accomplished woulda been Biggie's legacy instead. Nigga died and Jay saw what Big was tryna do and put his blinker on in his car and switched to that Lane and that's how he got to the top. If Big and Pac were alive Jay never gets this far.

Niggas need to stop w/ this retarded ass, dumb ass "When Pac/Big was alive, Jay....." or "If Pac/Big was still alive Jay....."

Reasonable Doubt dropped 3 months before Pac died and 9 months before Big.

Fuck, I'm surprised you niggas haven't pinned their deaths on Jay, since you know, he wouldn't have been shit if they were still alive.

 

[Built 4 cuban linx]

i think niggas need to know that there is a difference between great and best..

shit dont aways run concurrent..

Mayweather is technically a better boxer than Ali..

but he aint greater than..

jus sayin..

Jay is technically a better rapper than big. But he ain't greater than.

20+ yrs >> 3yrs

Biggie the BoJack of hiphop..

All of that and he doesn't have a better performance than victory, and he doesn't have a better album than ready to die........

When you distill it all the way down to just gettin in the both and rapping.....

Big > Jay

my nigga i like Big over Jay..

im not the biggest Jay fan at all..

but c'mo!!? Big aint take hiphop to this level.. Jay did..

this is why Jordan is greater than Kareem but ill slap fire to a nigga sayin he better..

Jordan took the NBA to the next level..

Biggie was a fuckin artist..

as dope as he was he was jus that..

street level shit..

we talkin about compare that to a fuckin music mogul who went and owned his own company and was president of the company that owned his conpany..

gettin his masters ownin stakes in a sports team.. big kickin it wit Buffet..

when Hilliary bitch ass needed votes they aint call Common..

Jays that nigga man..

it aint even nothin to argue..

Well then how come Jay wasn't doing that when Big was alive? How come when they was both here Jay of the two of them was considered more of the low level street nigga? Even when Big died Big was ahead of Jay in mainstream success so if Big wouldna died I have every reason to believe everything Jay has and accomplished woulda been Biggie's legacy instead. Nigga died and Jay saw what Big was tryna do and put his blinker on in his car and switched to that Lane and that's how he got to the top. If Big and Pac were alive Jay never gets this far.

Niggas need to stop w/ this retarded ass, dumb ass "When Pac/Big was alive, Jay....." or "If Pac/Big was still alive Jay....."

Reasonable Doubt dropped 3 before Pac died and 9 months before Big.

Fuck, I'm surprised you niggas haven't pinned their deaths on Jay, since you know, he wouldn't have been shit if they were still alive.

Funny enough, some Tupac Stan actually wrote and published a book saying that jayz pulled the trigger on pac in Vegas so he can get more famous... It's called the white book or something

 

[power_wisdom]

All things being considered, at this point I honestly have a hard time understanding how anyone could have a serious argument for anyone BUT Jay.

Thats the problem, niggas aint doing this.. too much bias being posted

Or.....Maybe niggas is keepin it rap instead of talkin about everything else that comes with it. Financial accomplishments, business accomplishments do not make a great rapper, the art does. Artistically, he's there, but he doesn't stand alone.

If we're taking the wide view. Jay wins. Rapper view, he's a peer of the gods. But he's not thee god. But he has a case. It's highly debatable. But I said this would happen on the first page. It's also, highly subjective.

Nah i was arguing wide view, all around goatness in every aspect of HIP HOP, not just rapping because i assume that's what TS was asking

If you takin every aspect, from music on out.... He checks all the boxes. Nobody else can check all the boxes. NOBODY.

Being a mogul or a billionaire isn't part of being a rapper. Shit impact not either. You can be the worst rapper with major impact. Same with sells. Both impact and sells might help solidify the point that you are the best. But it should be a criteria. The art form is what makes any great rapper great.

Being a mogul and a billionaire when it stems from the art is valid. Jay didn't have a cheat code, he's not white, he's not necessarily the most beloved, and he's not some kind of heart throb that the bitches hold on to. He got it from the mud as an artist, built his name up from RD to now.

His impact and sales come directly from the music. He has more than once changed the culture on a dime. He killed throw back jerseys, he made niggas stop drinkin cris, he got these niggas in they feelings about money to they ear. And many other things he's popularized, or deaded. He's made more entrepreneaurs through his music than anybody has made anything else. It all stemmed from the music, not a reality show, not any crazy antics. Dope music.

You could take that all away and he can bring his catalog into a room and 9 out of 10 niggas have to sit down.

You could walk him into a booth and 9 of 10 niggas have to sit down(See Exhibit A)

The businessman shit puts him far and away the greatest hip hop artist of all time. But if you take that away, and just base it on music. He's still heavily in the conversation when it comes to Goat status.

Exhibit A:

Being a business man has nothing to do with rap skills or being the Groat. That's like saying Puff is the best hip-hop mogul because he can rap. Or Dr Dre is a better producer than Premo because he a mogul. Most artist are not good at business. That's why they get jerked. And that's been going on since the begin of the music industry.

 

[MeekMonizzLLLLLLe14]

i think niggas need to know that there is a difference between great and best..

shit dont aways run concurrent..

Mayweather is technically a better boxer than Ali..

but he aint greater than..

jus sayin..

Jay is technically a better rapper than big. But he ain't greater than.

20+ yrs >> 3yrs

Biggie the BoJack of hiphop..

All of that and he doesn't have a better performance than victory, and he doesn't have a better album than ready to die........

When you distill it all the way down to just gettin in the both and rapping.....

Big > Jay

my nigga i like Big over Jay..

im not the biggest Jay fan at all..

but c'mo!!? Big aint take hiphop to this level.. Jay did..

this is why Jordan is greater than Kareem but ill slap fire to a nigga sayin he better..

Jordan took the NBA to the next level..

Biggie was a fuckin artist..

as dope as he was he was jus that..

street level shit..

we talkin about compare that to a fuckin music mogul who went and owned his own company and was president of the company that owned his conpany..

gettin his masters ownin stakes in a sports team.. big kickin it wit Buffet..

when Hilliary bitch ass needed votes they aint call Common..

Jays that nigga man..

it aint even nothin to argue..

Well then how come Jay wasn't doing that when Big was alive? How come when they was both here Jay of the two of them was considered more of the low level street nigga? Even when Big died Big was ahead of Jay in mainstream success so if Big wouldna died I have every reason to believe everything Jay has and accomplished woulda been Biggie's legacy instead. Nigga died and Jay saw what Big was tryna do and put his blinker on in his car and switched to that Lane and that's how he got to the top. If Big and Pac were alive Jay never gets this far.

Niggas need to stop w/ this retarded ass, dumb ass "When Pac/Big was alive, Jay....." or "If Pac/Big was still alive Jay....."

Reasonable Doubt dropped 3 months before Pac died and 9 months before Big.

Fuck, I'm surprised you niggas haven't pinned their deaths on Jay, since you know, he wouldn't have been shit if they were still alive.

How do we know that for sure? That is the issue when niggas try to use the small sample size of big and pac and assume they would have still kill it for another few decades in rap. During the small period of time they were alive both were flawless in many ways. But we have seen many top notch MC's fall off of break up with a group (NWA and Tribe) and some of those parts didn't continue to be consistent.

Shit Nas had one of the best 2 out the gate start in hip hop history with illmatic and IWW and even he couldn't keep up that quality for the 3rd and 4th and 5th album front to back.

 

[NoCompetition]

2Pac

That's my favorite.

He was like a genius with it. And its not like he really had to try to make those raps that put into words things others couldnt in a way that had such effect. He was the biggest rapper when he was alive. Impact, effect, even the intangible things I think its Pac. Jay z has had a great career though really and I think a case could be made for him. I fck with dude's music through the years but not as much as Pac. Like AEOM and Makavelli are albums I must have in my collection for instance. I've had em all this time and others. Taking nothing from Jay he has some of my favorite rap songs ever too and is an inspiration for business and stuff. But greatest rapper ever Pac to me. Dude was just different in that regard. The closest parallel I could come up with is Jordan. There have been contenders but really no one has caught or surpassed him. Like Kobe came pretty close but. And I think with Pac it may even be moreso.

 

[Revolver Ocelot]

i think niggas need to know that there is a difference between great and best..

shit dont aways run concurrent..

Mayweather is technically a better boxer than Ali..

but he aint greater than..

jus sayin..

Jay is technically a better rapper than big. But he ain't greater than.

20+ yrs >> 3yrs

Biggie the BoJack of hiphop..

All of that and he doesn't have a better performance than victory, and he doesn't have a better album than ready to die........

When you distill it all the way down to just gettin in the both and rapping.....

Big > Jay

my nigga i like Big over Jay..

im not the biggest Jay fan at all..

but c'mo!!? Big aint take hiphop to this level.. Jay did..

this is why Jordan is greater than Kareem but ill slap fire to a nigga sayin he better..

Jordan took the NBA to the next level..

Biggie was a fuckin artist..

as dope as he was he was jus that..

street level shit..

we talkin about compare that to a fuckin music mogul who went and owned his own company and was president of the company that owned his conpany..

gettin his masters ownin stakes in a sports team.. big kickin it wit Buffet..

when Hilliary bitch ass needed votes they aint call Common..

Jays that nigga man..

it aint even nothin to argue..

Well then how come Jay wasn't doing that when Big was alive? How come when they was both here Jay of the two of them was considered more of the low level street nigga? Even when Big died Big was ahead of Jay in mainstream success so if Big wouldna died I have every reason to believe everything Jay has and accomplished woulda been Biggie's legacy instead. Nigga died and Jay saw what Big was tryna do and put his blinker on in his car and switched to that Lane and that's how he got to the top. If Big and Pac were alive Jay never gets this far.

Niggas need to stop w/ this retarded ass, dumb ass "When Pac/Big was alive, Jay....." or "If Pac/Big was still alive Jay....."

Reasonable Doubt dropped 3 months before Pac died and 9 months before Big.

Fuck, I'm surprised you niggas haven't pinned their deaths on Jay, since you know, he wouldn't have been shit if they were still alive.

How do we know that for sure? That is the issue when niggas try to use the small sample size of big and pac and assume they would have still kill it for another few decades in rap. During the small period of time they were alive both were flawless in many ways. But we have seen many top notch MC's fall off of break up with a group (NWA and Tribe) and some of those parts didn't continue to be consistent.

Shit Nas had one of the best 2 out the gate start in hip hop history with illmatic and IWW and even he couldn't keep up that quality for the 3rd and 4th and 5th album front to back.

FOH

I Am was dope

Stillmatic is a classic

I'll give you Nastradamus being mediocre.

 

[MeekMonizzLLLLLLe14]

i think niggas need to know that there is a difference between great and best..

shit dont aways run concurrent..

Mayweather is technically a better boxer than Ali..

but he aint greater than..

jus sayin..

Jay is technically a better rapper than big. But he ain't greater than.

20+ yrs >> 3yrs

Biggie the BoJack of hiphop..

All of that and he doesn't have a better performance than victory, and he doesn't have a better album than ready to die........

When you distill it all the way down to just gettin in the both and rapping.....

Big > Jay

my nigga i like Big over Jay..

im not the biggest Jay fan at all..

but c'mo!!? Big aint take hiphop to this level.. Jay did..

this is why Jordan is greater than Kareem but ill slap fire to a nigga sayin he better..

Jordan took the NBA to the next level..

Biggie was a fuckin artist..

as dope as he was he was jus that..

street level shit..

we talkin about compare that to a fuckin music mogul who went and owned his own company and was president of the company that owned his conpany..

gettin his masters ownin stakes in a sports team.. big kickin it wit Buffet..

when Hilliary bitch ass needed votes they aint call Common..

Jays that nigga man..

it aint even nothin to argue..

Well then how come Jay wasn't doing that when Big was alive? How come when they was both here Jay of the two of them was considered more of the low level street nigga? Even when Big died Big was ahead of Jay in mainstream success so if Big wouldna died I have every reason to believe everything Jay has and accomplished woulda been Biggie's legacy instead. Nigga died and Jay saw what Big was tryna do and put his blinker on in his car and switched to that Lane and that's how he got to the top. If Big and Pac were alive Jay never gets this far.

Niggas need to stop w/ this retarded ass, dumb ass "When Pac/Big was alive, Jay....." or "If Pac/Big was still alive Jay....."

Reasonable Doubt dropped 3 months before Pac died and 9 months before Big.

Fuck, I'm surprised you niggas haven't pinned their deaths on Jay, since you know, he wouldn't have been shit if they were still alive.

How do we know that for sure? That is the issue when niggas try to use the small sample size of big and pac and assume they would have still kill it for another few decades in rap. During the small period of time they were alive both were flawless in many ways. But we have seen many top notch MC's fall off of break up with a group (NWA and Tribe) and some of those parts didn't continue to be consistent.

Shit Nas had one of the best 2 out the gate start in hip hop history with illmatic and IWW and even he couldn't keep up that quality for the 3rd and 4th and 5th album front to back.

FOH

I Am was dope

Stillmatic is a classic

I'll give you Nastradamus being mediocre.

He still made albums that were dope and great. But no album in Nasir's catalog is on the same level of IWW or illmatic.

 

[DR. JEK]

Niggas is funny wit the longevity subpoints. Y'all act like a nigga just automatically better than some niggas just cuz they live to be on some Larry holmes flabby and sick shit and another nigga didn't live that long so they don't count. Iverson old, that don't mean Kyrie won't cross his ass up these days.

To be the greatest you have to show longevity....

We'd never call a singer the greatest off 2 albums

We'd never call a actor the greatest off 2 movies

We'd never call a athlete the greatest after 2 seasons

We'd never call a TV series the greatest off 2 episodes

We'd never a call producer the greatest off 2 projects

Etc....

Part of being the greatest at something is showing the ability to be elite at it for a long stretch of time and Jay is 20 years in still capable of dropping a classic like he just showed so in the it's hard to say somebody with 2 albums is greater becuz we judging him on only his highs meanwhile with 13 albums we judging you off highs and lows

First of all his new shit ain't a classic. But secondly and more importantly it's not fair to the niggas that died dominating the time period that the same guy yall are bowing down to couldn't. Big and Pac are getting penalized just cuz somebody decided to shoot them. Was Martin Luther King any less great impact wise just cuz he got murdered? Or is AL Sharpton and Jesse Jackson automatically better?! A larger sample size don't always mean that person was better.

That's not a good example becuz MLK died at 39 we had seen enough of his works to compare his impact if he died at 25 no his impact wouldn't be as great as Al Sharpton or Jesse Jackson..... And that's how greatness works if a bball players comes in and has 2 of the best seasons ever then gets injured and retires does he pass Jordan or Kareem??? If a pop star has 2 of the greatest albums we heard then he has a accident and can't perform no more is he greater than Mike Jackson??? If a actor has 2 of the best movies you've ever seen then never makes another move is he now a greater actor then Denzel??? It's not just about longevity it's also about being great during your longevity Snoop been around dropping albums B4 Nas and Jay but he not considered the goat becuz while he has longevity he don't have the quality Big got the quality but he literally had one album on the shelf when he passed you can't just ignore that... And yes this new joint is a classic whether you accept it or not might wanna check the pulse of that album outside your own opinion lol

What you are missing is Jay was around and came out at the same time as those cats Pac and Big and No one fucked wit Jay more than they did those other two. How many classics you think Big woulda had if Jay got shot instead of him? You think Pac wouldn't be bigger than Jay is? Dude had a rap career on fire AND was getting to be sought after as far as movie roles. Jay ain't in movies even now!! Pac woulda had a more thorough following from the masses now than Jay ever dreamed of. Nigga damn near more popular than Jay right now and he's fuckin dead!!

Look, you can say what you want and I seen your examples up there and you would have a point otherwise if it wasn't for the fact that Jay dropped same time as Pac, Same time as Big. It's hard to compare Jordan and Kareem (maybe there is where my MLK comparison is also flawed) because their dominance overlapped each others era's. These guys was around for the same era and it took both Pac and Big to get killed out for Jay to bite their blueprint (no pun intended) and run with it.

And 4.44 isn't on the level as Blueprint, I'm sorry, you're just reaching tryna push that down niggas throats.

 

[DR. JEK]

Niggaz tryna grade in a bubble with a whole bunch of if you take this away or add this or this best ain't better than this best or this bad ain't better than this bad that's not how you grade you take EVERYTHING good bad best worse longevity highs lows impact influence diversity just everything that actually happened you see who checks the most boxes......

Y'all grading on a curve it's like taking a test and the teacher saying "his best answer is better than your best answer and his worse answer ain't as bad as your worse answer so we just not gonna take into account the rest of the test and give him the better grade"

If your comparing music...how would you like to compare

Album vs album.....highs vs highs and lows vs lows...consistency is a big factor...thats why Jay' s discography isn't that of Pac or nas

Jay-Z has had a tail of two careers....before blueprint great....after blueprint...not so much

You judge it all you don't judge "well Jay never had a illmatic and his worse album is worse than Nas worse so Nas is greater" the thing that I feel makes Jay the greatest is becuz he's been able to be versatile and still be great for 20 years meanwhile a rapper like Nas has for the most part stuck to his tried and true formula which isn't a bad thing but to be able to try new styles new flows new sounds new trends new formulas and be great through all of em imo makes you the greatest I mean he took a theme from a movie and damn near formed a classic out of it he took his playboy drug dealer ways and made classics out of it then took his cheating and turned that into a classic

For me your diversity of your greatness and the longevity of your greatness along with your skills and impact of what you say shows me if you're the greatest

But Jay-Z fails in the comparison of diversity next to nas....nas recreated his whole career with stillmatic...nas does emotion in songs better than Jay-Z....sure jayz recreated sound but like I said half of his career has not been great...so trying new things doesn't mean it's great

Nas has been more consistent with putting out quality albums which is why he is better than jayz....jayz has had a run since blueprint with 1 really good album of American gangster and a few duds

Nas recreated his whole career with stillmatic becuz ppl wasn't checking for him no more like that at that time.... Jay hasn't been as consistent sound wise as Nas may appear to be becuz like I said Nas sticks to his formula and imo that doesn't make you greater becuz you found a pocket that works for you and you stick to it greatness is being able to enter any pocket and show greatness and there isn't a pocket sound trend formula style etc that Jay hasn't shown he can be elite at becuz we all know Jay over soulful beats is him at his best so I'm sure he know he can give us the same thing in the same pocket album after album after album and look consistent doing that but imo that don't show greatness

Niggas kill me with this shit. Nas sold over 3 million albums in 1999, how was nobody checking for him. He took the year 2000 off.

I guess kinda the same way ppl say nobody was checking for reasonable doubt when it came out and the album went gold when it came out welcome to the world of myths

Gold In the 90s wasn't shit tho

There's no reason to double quote but Jay-Z has not been able to go into multiple pockets and be great...he isn't as well rounded as some other artists

People been waiting for an insight on Jay-Zs life...he brought that on 4:44 and did not do it very well imo....thats just the latest example

Yes his flow and lyrics are great but his lane is not putting emotion to a song...it doesn't translate

He didn't do a good job on this album and gold wasn't shit??? Smh I can tell you really don't like Jay with those takes but I guess that's your opinion you are in the VERY small minority which should tell you something but hey that's your opinion

Hes my third favorite rapper...but when you are talking about the elites you have to be nit pick...but yeah gold wasn't shit..who are you fooling acting like everyone didn't go gold or platinum back then

And no I don't think 4:44 Is a good album at all

These Jigga warriors will swear Jay z doo do smell like cologne next thing we know. The guy IS a good rapper but people won't even put things in proper perspective when it comes to talking about dude.

 

[DR. JEK]

I'm not saying Jay wouldna probably eventually found a way to somewhat make a name for himself, but he wasn't that great when rap was as competitive as it ever was in the deepest era ever! Instead he was complaining about New York being soft since Snoop kicked over buildings but wasn't actively powerful enough to stand out and stop anybody from infact doing it, atleast musically he wasn't. Yeah there is something to be said about long gevity and that's why Ice cube, Nas, Scarface and even your boy Jay get appreciated to a certain degree, but in no way shape or form does them living a long time minimize the domination certain cats had in just a few years that it took others years to get that big. You still gotta respect Big, Pac and and guess who else, DMX because although it was short, their dominance was almost like its own movements that lived forever even through Jay taking advantage after they were gone opportunist style.

I'd argue rap is more competitive now. Why? Because everyone has an outlet. I could make a hot album right now and it could be heard. In 94-96, all of these voices were unable to be heard. Recording a quality album was too expensive to do. Jay is still huge in a time where literally every nigga with a computer can release an album.

Like 90 percent of the people that drop now are more about the melodic chanting type beats and hooks. Bars don't have to be interesting or original and strong subject matter can be allowed to not exit. It's not more competitive now, if anything the fact that whoever can drop should be an indictment on rap, not perceived as more competitive.

 

[JJ_Evans]

2 Pac is without question #1, but Jay Z is now #2 in my opinion

 

[DR. JEK]

I learned to stop listening to IC niggas a long time ago anyway because right now Jay Z the best thing since sliced bread.

Soon as I do a Saturday thread tho and if I was to put 99 problems song against Pete Rocks Troy or something and it lose 14 to 0 or 16 to 2 in votes cats turn on me as if I shoulda knew better.

Only thing I can reply back is:

"thought Jay was the Greatest of all time tho!"

 

[DNB1]

2 Pac is without question #1, but Jay Z is now #2 in my opinion

Why is 2 PAC the goat tho?