Is hov officially the GROAT?

[Mister B.]

Kareem>Mike>>>Bron (as of now)

LL is either 6 or 7 after the BIG/Nas/PAC/Jay/Rakim order. And he's 7 based on how much you like KRS-One.

 

[GetoBoy]

Niggaz tryna grade in a bubble with a whole bunch of if you take this away or add this or this best ain't better than this best or this bad ain't better than this bad that's not how you grade you take EVERYTHING good bad best worse longevity highs lows impact influence diversity just everything that actually happened you see who checks the most boxes......

Y'all grading on a curve it's like taking a test and the teacher saying "his best answer is better than your best answer and his worse answer ain't as bad as your worse answer so we just not gonna take into account the rest of the test and give him the better grade"

If your comparing music...how would you like to compare

Album vs album.....highs vs highs and lows vs lows...consistency is a big factor...thats why Jay' s discography isn't that of Pac or nas

Jay-Z has had a tail of two careers....before blueprint great....after blueprint...not so much

You judge it all you don't judge "well Jay never had a illmatic and his worse album is worse than Nas worse so Nas is greater" the thing that I feel makes Jay the greatest is becuz he's been able to be versatile and still be great for 20 years meanwhile a rapper like Nas has for the most part stuck to his tried and true formula which isn't a bad thing but to be able to try new styles new flows new sounds new trends new formulas and be great through all of em imo makes you the greatest I mean he took a theme from a movie and damn near formed a classic out of it he took his playboy drug dealer ways and made classics out of it then took his cheating and turned that into a classic

For me your diversity of your greatness and the longevity of your greatness along with your skills and impact of what you say shows me if you're the greatest

 

[bck145]

Niggaz tryna grade in a bubble with a whole bunch of if you take this away or add this or this best ain't better than this best or this bad ain't better than this bad that's not how you grade you take EVERYTHING good bad best worse longevity highs lows impact influence diversity just everything that actually happened you see who checks the most boxes......

Y'all grading on a curve it's like taking a test and the teacher saying "his best answer is better than your best answer and his worse answer ain't as bad as your worse answer so we just not gonna take into account the rest of the test and give him the better grade"

If your comparing music...how would you like to compare

Album vs album.....highs vs highs and lows vs lows...consistency is a big factor...thats why Jay' s discography isn't that of Pac or nas

Jay-Z has had a tail of two careers....before blueprint great....after blueprint...not so much

You judge it all you don't judge "well Jay never had a illmatic and his worse album is worse than Nas worse so Nas is greater" the thing that I feel makes Jay the greatest is becuz he's been able to be versatile and still be great for 20 years meanwhile a rapper like Nas has for the most part stuck to his tried and true formula which isn't a bad thing but to be able to try new styles new flows new sounds new trends new formulas and be great through all of em imo makes you the greatest I mean he took a theme from a movie and damn near formed a classic out of it he took his playboy drug dealer ways and made classics out of it then took his cheating and turned that into a classic

For me your diversity of your greatness and the longevity of your greatness along with your skills and impact of what you say shows me if you're the greatest

But Jay-Z fails in the comparison of diversity next to nas....nas recreated his whole career with stillmatic...nas does emotion in songs better than Jay-Z....sure jayz recreated sound but like I said half of his career has not been great...so trying new things doesn't mean it's great

Nas has been more consistent with putting out quality albums which is why he is better than jayz....jayz has had a run since blueprint with 1 really good album of American gangster and a few duds

 

[GetoBoy]

Niggaz tryna grade in a bubble with a whole bunch of if you take this away or add this or this best ain't better than this best or this bad ain't better than this bad that's not how you grade you take EVERYTHING good bad best worse longevity highs lows impact influence diversity just everything that actually happened you see who checks the most boxes......

Y'all grading on a curve it's like taking a test and the teacher saying "his best answer is better than your best answer and his worse answer ain't as bad as your worse answer so we just not gonna take into account the rest of the test and give him the better grade"

If your comparing music...how would you like to compare

Album vs album.....highs vs highs and lows vs lows...consistency is a big factor...thats why Jay' s discography isn't that of Pac or nas

Jay-Z has had a tail of two careers....before blueprint great....after blueprint...not so much

You judge it all you don't judge "well Jay never had a illmatic and his worse album is worse than Nas worse so Nas is greater" the thing that I feel makes Jay the greatest is becuz he's been able to be versatile and still be great for 20 years meanwhile a rapper like Nas has for the most part stuck to his tried and true formula which isn't a bad thing but to be able to try new styles new flows new sounds new trends new formulas and be great through all of em imo makes you the greatest I mean he took a theme from a movie and damn near formed a classic out of it he took his playboy drug dealer ways and made classics out of it then took his cheating and turned that into a classic

For me your diversity of your greatness and the longevity of your greatness along with your skills and impact of what you say shows me if you're the greatest

But Jay-Z fails in the comparison of diversity next to nas....nas recreated his whole career with stillmatic...nas does emotion in songs better than Jay-Z....sure jayz recreated sound but like I said half of his career has not been great...so trying new things doesn't mean it's great

Nas has been more consistent with putting out quality albums which is why he is better than jayz....jayz has had a run since blueprint with 1 really good album of American gangster and a few duds

Nas recreated his whole career with stillmatic becuz ppl wasn't checking for him no more like that at that time.... Jay hasn't been as consistent sound wise as Nas may appear to be becuz like I said Nas sticks to his formula and imo that doesn't make you greater becuz you found a pocket that works for you and you stick to it greatness is being able to enter any pocket and show greatness and there isn't a pocket sound trend formula style etc that Jay hasn't shown he can be elite at becuz we all know Jay over soulful beats is him at his best so I'm sure he know he can give us the same thing in the same pocket album after album after album and look consistent doing that but imo that don't show greatness

 

[power_wisdom]

Niggaz tryna grade in a bubble with a whole bunch of if you take this away or add this or this best ain't better than this best or this bad ain't better than this bad that's not how you grade you take EVERYTHING good bad best worse longevity highs lows impact influence diversity just everything that actually happened you see who checks the most boxes......

Y'all grading on a curve it's like taking a test and the teacher saying "his best answer is better than your best answer and his worse answer ain't as bad as your worse answer so we just not gonna take into account the rest of the test and give him the better grade"

If your comparing music...how would you like to compare

Album vs album.....highs vs highs and lows vs lows...consistency is a big factor...thats why Jay' s discography isn't that of Pac or nas

Jay-Z has had a tail of two careers....before blueprint great....after blueprint...not so much

You judge it all you don't judge "well Jay never had a illmatic and his worse album is worse than Nas worse so Nas is greater" the thing that I feel makes Jay the greatest is becuz he's been able to be versatile and still be great for 20 years meanwhile a rapper like Nas has for the most part stuck to his tried and true formula which isn't a bad thing but to be able to try new styles new flows new sounds new trends new formulas and be great through all of em imo makes you the greatest I mean he took a theme from a movie and damn near formed a classic out of it he took his playboy drug dealer ways and made classics out of it then took his cheating and turned that into a classic

For me your diversity of your greatness and the longevity of your greatness along with your skills and impact of what you say shows me if you're the greatest

Nas said hip-hop is dead and made a great album about it. He made an album out what means to be a nigga. He made a album about being a middle age successful rapper and father dealing with a broken relationship. Wait a minute, didn't Jay just do that? Well Nas has inspired Jay. And that a fact. You keep talking about longevity, something Nas has over Jay. Nas is better than Jay in every category that is based on music, Mcing artistry. Jay went from wanting Nas on a song, to calling him his top 3 to fucking his baby momma, to wanting to end his career, to doing g a couple of songs with him. Bottom line is if you are talking about rapping, Nas is a better lyricist. He is more creative. He is a better story teller. He more versatile in his content. He better discography than Jay. And he has a top 3 goat album. And SD was way better than BP2. It got better reviews and in truth not a bad double album. People who neither like or dislike Jay hated that album. I remember when it first came out and I played it for my boy. He told after 5 songs "man turn that shit off" true story.

 

[mosincredible]

I'm not saying Jay wouldna probably eventually found a way to somewhat make a name for himself, but he wasn't that great when rap was as competitive as it ever was in the deepest era ever! Instead he was complaining about New York being soft since Snoop kicked over buildings but wasn't actively powerful enough to stand out and stop anybody from infact doing it, atleast musically he wasn't. Yeah there is something to be said about long gevity and that's why Ice cube, Nas, Scarface and even your boy Jay get appreciated to a certain degree, but in no way shape or form does them living a long time minimize the domination certain cats had in just a few years that it took others years to get that big. You still gotta respect Big, Pac and and guess who else, DMX because although it was short, their dominance was almost like its own movements that lived forever even through Jay taking advantage after they were gone opportunist style.

I'd argue rap is more competitive now. Why? Because everyone has an outlet. I could make a hot album right now and it could be heard. In 94-96, all of these voices were unable to be heard. Recording a quality album was too expensive to do. Jay is still huge in a time where literally every nigga with a computer can release an album.

 

[GetoBoy]

Niggaz tryna grade in a bubble with a whole bunch of if you take this away or add this or this best ain't better than this best or this bad ain't better than this bad that's not how you grade you take EVERYTHING good bad best worse longevity highs lows impact influence diversity just everything that actually happened you see who checks the most boxes......

Y'all grading on a curve it's like taking a test and the teacher saying "his best answer is better than your best answer and his worse answer ain't as bad as your worse answer so we just not gonna take into account the rest of the test and give him the better grade"

If your comparing music...how would you like to compare

Album vs album.....highs vs highs and lows vs lows...consistency is a big factor...thats why Jay' s discography isn't that of Pac or nas

Jay-Z has had a tail of two careers....before blueprint great....after blueprint...not so much

You judge it all you don't judge "well Jay never had a illmatic and his worse album is worse than Nas worse so Nas is greater" the thing that I feel makes Jay the greatest is becuz he's been able to be versatile and still be great for 20 years meanwhile a rapper like Nas has for the most part stuck to his tried and true formula which isn't a bad thing but to be able to try new styles new flows new sounds new trends new formulas and be great through all of em imo makes you the greatest I mean he took a theme from a movie and damn near formed a classic out of it he took his playboy drug dealer ways and made classics out of it then took his cheating and turned that into a classic

For me your diversity of your greatness and the longevity of your greatness along with your skills and impact of what you say shows me if you're the greatest

Nas said hip-hop is dead and made a great album about it. He made an album out what means to be a nigga. He made a album about being a middle age successful rapper and father dealing with a broken relationship. Wait a minute, didn't Jay just do that? Well Nas has inspired Jay. And that a fact. You keep talking about longevity, something Nas has over Jay. Nas is better than Jay in every category that is based on music, Mcing artistry. Jay went from wanting Nas on a song, to calling him his top 3 to fucking his baby momma, to wanting to end his career, to doing g a couple of songs with him. Bottom line is if you are talking about rapping, Nas is a better lyricist. He is more creative. He is a better story teller. He more versatile in his content. He better discography than Jay. And he has a top 3 goat album. And SD was way better than BP2. It got better reviews and in truth not a bad double album. People who neither like or dislike Jay hated that album. I remember when it first came out and I played it for my boy. He told after 5 songs "man turn that shit off" true story.

Aight man that's your opinion ain't no point in going back and forth you with you about a bunch of opinion based things in the end like I said from jump Jay has just as much of a case as anybody you can name rappers like Nas that have just as much of a case but no rapper has a better case so going back and forth about opinion based things that nobody gonna change they minds on is pointless

 

[LUClEN]

I'm not saying Jay wouldna probably eventually found a way to somewhat make a name for himself, but he wasn't that great when rap was as competitive as it ever was in the deepest era ever! Instead he was complaining about New York being soft since Snoop kicked over buildings but wasn't actively powerful enough to stand out and stop anybody from infact doing it, atleast musically he wasn't. Yeah there is something to be said about long gevity and that's why Ice cube, Nas, Scarface and even your boy Jay get appreciated to a certain degree, but in no way shape or form does them living a long time minimize the domination certain cats had in just a few years that it took others years to get that big. You still gotta respect Big, Pac and and guess who else, DMX because although it was short, their dominance was almost like its own movements that lived forever even through Jay taking advantage after they were gone opportunist style.

I'd argue rap is more competitive now. Why? Because everyone has an outlet. I could make a hot album right now and it could be heard. In 94-96, all of these voices were unable to be heard. Recording a quality album was too expensive to do. Jay is still huge in a time where literally every nigga with a computer can release an album.

There are more fish in the ocean now, but back then it was tougher to make a name for yourself. The game was dominated by a handful of veterans and legends. Now you got dope rappers popping up all the time, making albums on a $10,000 budget

 

[Olorun22]

Jay isn't the goat imo but he has the best career than any rapper has had

 

[GetoBoy]

Niggas is funny wit the longevity subpoints. Y'all act like a nigga just automatically better than some niggas just cuz they live to be on some Larry holmes flabby and sick shit and another nigga didn't live that long so they don't count. Iverson old, that don't mean Kyrie won't cross his ass up these days.

To be the greatest you have to show longevity....

We'd never call a singer the greatest off 2 albums

We'd never call a actor the greatest off 2 movies

We'd never call a athlete the greatest after 2 seasons

We'd never call a TV series the greatest off 2 episodes

We'd never a call producer the greatest off 2 projects

Etc....

Part of being the greatest at something is showing the ability to be elite at it for a long stretch of time and Jay is 20 years in still capable of dropping a classic like he just showed so in the it's hard to say somebody with 2 albums is greater becuz we judging him on only his highs meanwhile with 13 albums we judging you off highs and lows

First of all his new shit ain't a classic. But secondly and more importantly it's not fair to the niggas that died dominating the time period that the same guy yall are bowing down to couldn't. Big and Pac are getting penalized just cuz somebody decided to shoot them. Was Martin Luther King any less great impact wise just cuz he got murdered? Or is AL Sharpton and Jesse Jackson automatically better?! A larger sample size don't always mean that person was better.

That's not a good example becuz MLK died at 39 we had seen enough of his works to compare his impact if he died at 25 no his impact wouldn't be as great as Al Sharpton or Jesse Jackson..... And that's how greatness works if a bball players comes in and has 2 of the best seasons ever then gets injured and retires does he pass Jordan or Kareem??? If a pop star has 2 of the greatest albums we heard then he has a accident and can't perform no more is he greater than Mike Jackson??? If a actor has 2 of the best movies you've ever seen then never makes another move is he now a greater actor then Denzel??? It's not just about longevity it's also about being great during your longevity Snoop been around dropping albums B4 Nas and Jay but he not considered the goat becuz while he has longevity he don't have the quality Big got the quality but he literally had one album on the shelf when he passed you can't just ignore that... And yes this new joint is a classic whether you accept it or not might wanna check the pulse of that album outside your own opinion lol

 

[Trillfate]

All things being considered, at this point I honestly have a hard time understanding how anyone could have a serious argument for anyone BUT Jay.

Thats the problem, niggas aint doing this.. too much bias being posted

Or.....Maybe niggas is keepin it rap instead of talkin about everything else that comes with it. Financial accomplishments, business accomplishments do not make a great rapper, the art does. Artistically, he's there, but he doesn't stand alone.

If we're taking the wide view. Jay wins. Rapper view, he's a peer of the gods. But he's not thee god. But he has a case. It's highly debatable. But I said this would happen on the first page. It's also, highly subjective.

Nah i was arguing wide view, all around goatness in every aspect of HIP HOP, not just rapping because i assume that's what TS was asking

 

[metal face terrorist]

Niggaz tryna grade in a bubble with a whole bunch of if you take this away or add this or this best ain't better than this best or this bad ain't better than this bad that's not how you grade you take EVERYTHING good bad best worse longevity highs lows impact influence diversity just everything that actually happened you see who checks the most boxes......

Y'all grading on a curve it's like taking a test and the teacher saying "his best answer is better than your best answer and his worse answer ain't as bad as your worse answer so we just not gonna take into account the rest of the test and give him the better grade"

If your comparing music...how would you like to compare

Album vs album.....highs vs highs and lows vs lows...consistency is a big factor...thats why Jay' s discography isn't that of Pac or nas

Jay-Z has had a tail of two careers....before blueprint great....after blueprint...not so much

You judge it all you don't judge "well Jay never had a illmatic and his worse album is worse than Nas worse so Nas is greater" the thing that I feel makes Jay the greatest is becuz he's been able to be versatile and still be great for 20 years meanwhile a rapper like Nas has for the most part stuck to his tried and true formula which isn't a bad thing but to be able to try new styles new flows new sounds new trends new formulas and be great through all of em imo makes you the greatest I mean he took a theme from a movie and damn near formed a classic out of it he took his playboy drug dealer ways and made classics out of it then took his cheating and turned that into a classic

For me your diversity of your greatness and the longevity of your greatness along with your skills and impact of what you say shows me if you're the greatest

But Jay-Z fails in the comparison of diversity next to nas....nas recreated his whole career with stillmatic...nas does emotion in songs better than Jay-Z....sure jayz recreated sound but like I said half of his career has not been great...so trying new things doesn't mean it's great

Nas has been more consistent with putting out quality albums which is why he is better than jayz....jayz has had a run since blueprint with 1 really good album of American gangster and a few duds

Nas recreated his whole career with stillmatic becuz ppl wasn't checking for him no more like that at that time.... Jay hasn't been as consistent sound wise as Nas may appear to be becuz like I said Nas sticks to his formula and imo that doesn't make you greater becuz you found a pocket that works for you and you stick to it greatness is being able to enter any pocket and show greatness and there isn't a pocket sound trend formula style etc that Jay hasn't shown he can be elite at becuz we all know Jay over soulful beats is him at his best so I'm sure he know he can give us the same thing in the same pocket album after album after album and look consistent doing that but imo that don't show greatness

Niggas kill me with this shit. Nas sold over 3 million albums in 1999, how was nobody checking for him. He took the year 2000 off.

 

[Lefty_]

All things being considered, at this point I honestly have a hard time understanding how anyone could have a serious argument for anyone BUT Jay.

Thats the problem, niggas aint doing this.. too much bias being posted

Or.....Maybe niggas is keepin it rap instead of talkin about everything else that comes with it. Financial accomplishments, business accomplishments do not make a great rapper, the art does. Artistically, he's there, but he doesn't stand alone.

If we're taking the wide view. Jay wins. Rapper view, he's a peer of the gods. But he's not thee god. But he has a case. It's highly debatable. But I said this would happen on the first page. It's also, highly subjective.

Nah i was arguing wide view, all around goatness in every aspect of HIP HOP, not just rapping because i assume that's what TS was asking

If you takin every aspect, from music on out.... He checks all the boxes. Nobody else can check all the boxes. NOBODY.

 

[GetoBoy]

Niggaz tryna grade in a bubble with a whole bunch of if you take this away or add this or this best ain't better than this best or this bad ain't better than this bad that's not how you grade you take EVERYTHING good bad best worse longevity highs lows impact influence diversity just everything that actually happened you see who checks the most boxes......

Y'all grading on a curve it's like taking a test and the teacher saying "his best answer is better than your best answer and his worse answer ain't as bad as your worse answer so we just not gonna take into account the rest of the test and give him the better grade"

If your comparing music...how would you like to compare

Album vs album.....highs vs highs and lows vs lows...consistency is a big factor...thats why Jay' s discography isn't that of Pac or nas

Jay-Z has had a tail of two careers....before blueprint great....after blueprint...not so much

You judge it all you don't judge "well Jay never had a illmatic and his worse album is worse than Nas worse so Nas is greater" the thing that I feel makes Jay the greatest is becuz he's been able to be versatile and still be great for 20 years meanwhile a rapper like Nas has for the most part stuck to his tried and true formula which isn't a bad thing but to be able to try new styles new flows new sounds new trends new formulas and be great through all of em imo makes you the greatest I mean he took a theme from a movie and damn near formed a classic out of it he took his playboy drug dealer ways and made classics out of it then took his cheating and turned that into a classic

For me your diversity of your greatness and the longevity of your greatness along with your skills and impact of what you say shows me if you're the greatest

But Jay-Z fails in the comparison of diversity next to nas....nas recreated his whole career with stillmatic...nas does emotion in songs better than Jay-Z....sure jayz recreated sound but like I said half of his career has not been great...so trying new things doesn't mean it's great

Nas has been more consistent with putting out quality albums which is why he is better than jayz....jayz has had a run since blueprint with 1 really good album of American gangster and a few duds

Nas recreated his whole career with stillmatic becuz ppl wasn't checking for him no more like that at that time.... Jay hasn't been as consistent sound wise as Nas may appear to be becuz like I said Nas sticks to his formula and imo that doesn't make you greater becuz you found a pocket that works for you and you stick to it greatness is being able to enter any pocket and show greatness and there isn't a pocket sound trend formula style etc that Jay hasn't shown he can be elite at becuz we all know Jay over soulful beats is him at his best so I'm sure he know he can give us the same thing in the same pocket album after album after album and look consistent doing that but imo that don't show greatness

Niggas kill me with this shit. Nas sold over 3 million albums in 1999, how was nobody checking for him. He took the year 2000 off.

I guess kinda the same way ppl say nobody was checking for reasonable doubt when it came out and the album went gold when it came out welcome to the world of myths

 

[KamPushMe]

Niggaz tryna grade in a bubble with a whole bunch of if you take this away or add this or this best ain't better than this best or this bad ain't better than this bad that's not how you grade you take EVERYTHING good bad best worse longevity highs lows impact influence diversity just everything that actually happened you see who checks the most boxes......

Y'all grading on a curve it's like taking a test and the teacher saying "his best answer is better than your best answer and his worse answer ain't as bad as your worse answer so we just not gonna take into account the rest of the test and give him the better grade"

If your comparing music...how would you like to compare

Album vs album.....highs vs highs and lows vs lows...consistency is a big factor...thats why Jay' s discography isn't that of Pac or nas

Jay-Z has had a tail of two careers....before blueprint great....after blueprint...not so much

You judge it all you don't judge "well Jay never had a illmatic and his worse album is worse than Nas worse so Nas is greater" the thing that I feel makes Jay the greatest is becuz he's been able to be versatile and still be great for 20 years meanwhile a rapper like Nas has for the most part stuck to his tried and true formula which isn't a bad thing but to be able to try new styles new flows new sounds new trends new formulas and be great through all of em imo makes you the greatest I mean he took a theme from a movie and damn near formed a classic out of it he took his playboy drug dealer ways and made classics out of it then took his cheating and turned that into a classic

For me your diversity of your greatness and the longevity of your greatness along with your skills and impact of what you say shows me if you're the greatest

But Jay-Z fails in the comparison of diversity next to nas....nas recreated his whole career with stillmatic...nas does emotion in songs better than Jay-Z....sure jayz recreated sound but like I said half of his career has not been great...so trying new things doesn't mean it's great

Nas has been more consistent with putting out quality albums which is why he is better than jayz....jayz has had a run since blueprint with 1 really good album of American gangster and a few duds

Nas recreated his whole career with stillmatic becuz ppl wasn't checking for him no more like that at that time.... Jay hasn't been as consistent sound wise as Nas may appear to be becuz like I said Nas sticks to his formula and imo that doesn't make you greater becuz you found a pocket that works for you and you stick to it greatness is being able to enter any pocket and show greatness and there isn't a pocket sound trend formula style etc that Jay hasn't shown he can be elite at becuz we all know Jay over soulful beats is him at his best so I'm sure he know he can give us the same thing in the same pocket album after album after album and look consistent doing that but imo that don't show greatness

Niggas kill me with this shit. Nas sold over 3 million albums in 1999, how was nobody checking for him. He took the year 2000 off.

I guess kinda the same way ppl say nobody was checking for reasonable doubt when it came out and the album went gold when it came out welcome to the world of myths

Stop it nigga

 

[power_wisdom]

All things being considered, at this point I honestly have a hard time understanding how anyone could have a serious argument for anyone BUT Jay.

Thats the problem, niggas aint doing this.. too much bias being posted

Or.....Maybe niggas is keepin it rap instead of talkin about everything else that comes with it. Financial accomplishments, business accomplishments do not make a great rapper, the art does. Artistically, he's there, but he doesn't stand alone.

If we're taking the wide view. Jay wins. Rapper view, he's a peer of the gods. But he's not thee god. But he has a case. It's highly debatable. But I said this would happen on the first page. It's also, highly subjective.

Nah i was arguing wide view, all around goatness in every aspect of HIP HOP, not just rapping because i assume that's what TS was asking

If you takin every aspect, from music on out.... He checks all the boxes. Nobody else can check all the boxes. NOBODY.

Being a mogul or a billionaire isn't part of being a rapper. Shit impact not either. You can be the worst rapper with major impact. Same with sells. Both impact and sells might help solidify the point that you are the best. But it should be a criteria. The art form is what makes any great rapper great.

 

[GetoBoy]

Niggaz tryna grade in a bubble with a whole bunch of if you take this away or add this or this best ain't better than this best or this bad ain't better than this bad that's not how you grade you take EVERYTHING good bad best worse longevity highs lows impact influence diversity just everything that actually happened you see who checks the most boxes......

Y'all grading on a curve it's like taking a test and the teacher saying "his best answer is better than your best answer and his worse answer ain't as bad as your worse answer so we just not gonna take into account the rest of the test and give him the better grade"

If your comparing music...how would you like to compare

Album vs album.....highs vs highs and lows vs lows...consistency is a big factor...thats why Jay' s discography isn't that of Pac or nas

Jay-Z has had a tail of two careers....before blueprint great....after blueprint...not so much

You judge it all you don't judge "well Jay never had a illmatic and his worse album is worse than Nas worse so Nas is greater" the thing that I feel makes Jay the greatest is becuz he's been able to be versatile and still be great for 20 years meanwhile a rapper like Nas has for the most part stuck to his tried and true formula which isn't a bad thing but to be able to try new styles new flows new sounds new trends new formulas and be great through all of em imo makes you the greatest I mean he took a theme from a movie and damn near formed a classic out of it he took his playboy drug dealer ways and made classics out of it then took his cheating and turned that into a classic

For me your diversity of your greatness and the longevity of your greatness along with your skills and impact of what you say shows me if you're the greatest

But Jay-Z fails in the comparison of diversity next to nas....nas recreated his whole career with stillmatic...nas does emotion in songs better than Jay-Z....sure jayz recreated sound but like I said half of his career has not been great...so trying new things doesn't mean it's great

Nas has been more consistent with putting out quality albums which is why he is better than jayz....jayz has had a run since blueprint with 1 really good album of American gangster and a few duds

Nas recreated his whole career with stillmatic becuz ppl wasn't checking for him no more like that at that time.... Jay hasn't been as consistent sound wise as Nas may appear to be becuz like I said Nas sticks to his formula and imo that doesn't make you greater becuz you found a pocket that works for you and you stick to it greatness is being able to enter any pocket and show greatness and there isn't a pocket sound trend formula style etc that Jay hasn't shown he can be elite at becuz we all know Jay over soulful beats is him at his best so I'm sure he know he can give us the same thing in the same pocket album after album after album and look consistent doing that but imo that don't show greatness

Niggas kill me with this shit. Nas sold over 3 million albums in 1999, how was nobody checking for him. He took the year 2000 off.

I guess kinda the same way ppl say nobody was checking for reasonable doubt when it came out and the album went gold when it came out welcome to the world of myths

Stop it nigga

Where was the lie did it not go gold??

 

[metal face terrorist]

fuck the titangraphs. drop songs or verses. let the music speak for itself.

 

[Lefty_]

All things being considered, at this point I honestly have a hard time understanding how anyone could have a serious argument for anyone BUT Jay.

Thats the problem, niggas aint doing this.. too much bias being posted

Or.....Maybe niggas is keepin it rap instead of talkin about everything else that comes with it. Financial accomplishments, business accomplishments do not make a great rapper, the art does. Artistically, he's there, but he doesn't stand alone.

If we're taking the wide view. Jay wins. Rapper view, he's a peer of the gods. But he's not thee god. But he has a case. It's highly debatable. But I said this would happen on the first page. It's also, highly subjective.

Nah i was arguing wide view, all around goatness in every aspect of HIP HOP, not just rapping because i assume that's what TS was asking

If you takin every aspect, from music on out.... He checks all the boxes. Nobody else can check all the boxes. NOBODY.

Being a mogul or a billionaire isn't part of being a rapper. Shit impact not either. You can be the worst rapper with major impact. Same with sells. Both impact and sells might help solidify the point that you are the best. But it should be a criteria. The art form is what makes any great rapper great.

Being a mogul and a billionaire when it stems from the art is valid. Jay didn't have a cheat code, he's not white, he's not necessarily the most beloved, and he's not some kind of heart throb that the bitches hold on to. He got it from the mud as an artist, built his name up from RD to now.

His impact and sales come directly from the music. He has more than once changed the culture on a dime. He killed throw back jerseys, he made niggas stop drinkin cris, he got these niggas in they feelings about money to they ear. And many other things he's popularized, or deaded. He's made more entrepreneaurs through his music than anybody has made anything else. It all stemmed from the music, not a reality show, not any crazy antics. Dope music.

You could take that all away and he can bring his catalog into a room and 9 out of 10 niggas have to sit down.

You could walk him into a booth and 9 of 10 niggas have to sit down(See Exhibit A)

The businessman shit puts him far and away the greatest hip hop artist of all time. But if you take that away, and just base it on music. He's still heavily in the conversation when it comes to Goat status.

Exhibit A:

 

[bck145]

Niggaz tryna grade in a bubble with a whole bunch of if you take this away or add this or this best ain't better than this best or this bad ain't better than this bad that's not how you grade you take EVERYTHING good bad best worse longevity highs lows impact influence diversity just everything that actually happened you see who checks the most boxes......

Y'all grading on a curve it's like taking a test and the teacher saying "his best answer is better than your best answer and his worse answer ain't as bad as your worse answer so we just not gonna take into account the rest of the test and give him the better grade"

If your comparing music...how would you like to compare

Album vs album.....highs vs highs and lows vs lows...consistency is a big factor...thats why Jay' s discography isn't that of Pac or nas

Jay-Z has had a tail of two careers....before blueprint great....after blueprint...not so much

You judge it all you don't judge "well Jay never had a illmatic and his worse album is worse than Nas worse so Nas is greater" the thing that I feel makes Jay the greatest is becuz he's been able to be versatile and still be great for 20 years meanwhile a rapper like Nas has for the most part stuck to his tried and true formula which isn't a bad thing but to be able to try new styles new flows new sounds new trends new formulas and be great through all of em imo makes you the greatest I mean he took a theme from a movie and damn near formed a classic out of it he took his playboy drug dealer ways and made classics out of it then took his cheating and turned that into a classic

For me your diversity of your greatness and the longevity of your greatness along with your skills and impact of what you say shows me if you're the greatest

But Jay-Z fails in the comparison of diversity next to nas....nas recreated his whole career with stillmatic...nas does emotion in songs better than Jay-Z....sure jayz recreated sound but like I said half of his career has not been great...so trying new things doesn't mean it's great

Nas has been more consistent with putting out quality albums which is why he is better than jayz....jayz has had a run since blueprint with 1 really good album of American gangster and a few duds

Nas recreated his whole career with stillmatic becuz ppl wasn't checking for him no more like that at that time.... Jay hasn't been as consistent sound wise as Nas may appear to be becuz like I said Nas sticks to his formula and imo that doesn't make you greater becuz you found a pocket that works for you and you stick to it greatness is being able to enter any pocket and show greatness and there isn't a pocket sound trend formula style etc that Jay hasn't shown he can be elite at becuz we all know Jay over soulful beats is him at his best so I'm sure he know he can give us the same thing in the same pocket album after album after album and look consistent doing that but imo that don't show greatness

Niggas kill me with this shit. Nas sold over 3 million albums in 1999, how was nobody checking for him. He took the year 2000 off.

I guess kinda the same way ppl say nobody was checking for reasonable doubt when it came out and the album went gold when it came out welcome to the world of myths

Gold In the 90s wasn't shit tho

There's no reason to double quote but Jay-Z has not been able to go into multiple pockets and be great...he isn't as well rounded as some other artists

People been waiting for an insight on Jay-Zs life...he brought that on 4:44 and did not do it very well imo....thats just the latest example

Yes his flow and lyrics are great but his lane is not putting emotion to a song...it doesn't translate