Is God's authority based on his omnipotence?

[soul rattler]

It's the one fallacious argument that defines most religions. Ever heard the expression "I don't have a heaven or help to put you in"? They all operate on the idea that their "god's" ability to give you eternal punishment or reward is what makes their rules right or just.

 

[zombie]

If god is less powerful than steve then god is not god Steve would be god.

 

[Rubato Garcia]

Steve created god so the masses wouldn't have someone tangible to overthrow

 

[UltraIncredible]

Who I am or am not banging seems to be a rather petty concern for a being with the power to achieve every goal possible. Both God and Steve sound like dicks.

 

[alissowack]

I've been thinking a lot about the idea of 'might makes right' for awhile now.

That said it seems that if hypothetically there were many celestial beings that exist, and the one referred to as God was very powerful but less powerful than another we will call Steve, then God's authority is jeopardized by Steve's power. If God were to say 'do not covet your wife' and Steve said 'Covet your wife every day' it makes sense that people would listen to Steve because Steve would have the power to punish you more severely than God.

I don't think anybody would listen to God over Steve in this scenario.

I think that it would help to understand just what the Bible says about God. If being omnipotent is just some power play, then just might be that the world needs to follow Steve. But it is not. It's about trusting God with every aspect our lives; including what is considered good or evil. In the "garden", we didn't do that. There is this saying I got from somewhere is that we really don't break the rules. The rules still stand whether we obey them or not. We break ourselves.

 

[LUClEN]

Well Zombie says that if there is a being stronger than "God" then it would have the be God.

You do bring up a good point, which I did hope to address. God is supposed to be the most powerful, the most moral and the most knowledgeable. If he wasn't the most powerful he still could be the most moral and the most knowledgeable. Would his word still have the same authority if a more powerful being existed?

This may be a poor analogy but I imagine it like Mexico where they have a government and a police force that is supposed to be good and wise, but its power is dwarfed by the gangs. So while the government represents a certain perspective there are many who do as the gangs say because of their power.

 

[Ajackson17]

Who knows if this being is all powerful? To us he/she/it does because we are weak. If anything iI believe there is not just one higher being.

 

[alissowack]

Well Zombie says that if there is a being stronger than "God" then it would have the be God.

You do bring up a good point, which I did hope to address. God is supposed to be the most powerful, the most moral and the most knowledgeable. If he wasn't the most powerful he still could be the most moral and the most knowledgeable. Would his word still have the same authority if a more powerful being existed?

This may be a poor analogy but I imagine it like Mexico where they have a government and a police force that is supposed to be good and wise, but its power is dwarfed by the gangs. So while the government represents a certain perspective there are many who do as the gangs say because of their power.

I don't think that the issue is about a show of strength. It is whether or not God is the reason for why power, morals, and knowledge exist. The Mexican gangs may show that they have power over government and police, but they can't say they brought the concept of power into existence...nor can the good and wise people can say they brought morals and knowledge into existence.

 

[BiblicalAtheist]

Hmmmmm..... indeed.

 

[Bodhi]

I don't think God's power is solely based on omnipotence. It's more so based on him being the creator; sort of a filial piety. So because he, theoretically speaking, is the all powerful source of all existence, his word would be miles above anyone else by default.

 

[LUClEN]

I don't think God's power is solely based on omnipotence. It's more so based on him being the creator; sort of a filial piety. So because he, theoretically speaking, is the all powerful source of all existence, his word would be miles above anyone else by default.

If I were to take my hypothetical further then, and say that the competing deity had the power to override "God's" will, would God still have the same authority? If Steve could send a good man to hell and a bad man to heaven at whim would God still command the same respect?

I am inclined to say no. However, I also realize that just because God may not be able to reward punish as he intends his commands are not any less moral or beneficial.

It just seems that if there is a competing power God's rightness is undermined and therefore not as powerful.

 

[Bodhi]

Well according to Christian theology, humans have free will independent of god's will. Even though, in theory, this idea of free will falls apart given what god is, if humans have the ability to decide their fate regardless of what god may have intended, there is already an example of gods will not being absolute in some sense however, he has absolute authority.

 

[Bodhi]

Take one of the Genesis stories for example..

God's will was that Adam and Eve live free of sin. Yet, they, independent of his will, disobeyed but his authority deemed the disobedience as punishable by exile. Again, this relationship is held together by god being creator, similar to that of parent and child.

 

[DoUwant2go2Heaven]

Sovereignty of God, ever heard of it?

 

[Bodhi]

Sovereignty of God, ever heard of it?

tell us about it instead of being a pompous asshole.

 

[DoUwant2go2Heaven]

Sovereignty of God, ever heard of it?

tell us about it instead of being a pompous asshole.

All I did was ask a question my friend. I don't know how you can interpret that as being "a pompous asshole", but I do apologize if I offended you.

But anyways the sovereignty of God overrules everything under His feet. That means that God is the supreme ruler and He can do and will do anything that pleases Him without anybody having the power to stop His will, plan, or purpose from being accomplished.

 

[Ajackson17]

Sounds like arrogance and definite ESTJ mindset.

 

[Bodhi]

Sovereignty of God, ever heard of it?

tell us about it instead of being a pompous asshole.

All I did was ask a question my friend. I don't know how you can interpret that as being "a pompous asshole", but I do apologize if I offended you.

But anyways the sovereignty of God overrules everything under His feet. That means that God is the supreme ruler and He can do and will do anything that pleases Him without anybody having the power to stop His will, plan, or purpose from being accomplished.

was his plan for all of mankind to go to heaven?

 

[DoUwant2go2Heaven]

Sovereignty of God, ever heard of it?

tell us about it instead of being a pompous asshole.

All I did was ask a question my friend. I don't know how you can interpret that as being "a pompous asshole", but I do apologize if I offended you.

But anyways the sovereignty of God overrules everything under His feet. That means that God is the supreme ruler and He can do and will do anything that pleases Him without anybody having the power to stop His will, plan, or purpose from being accomplished.

was his plan for all of mankind to go to heaven?

"The Lord is not slow in keeping his promise, as some understand slowness. Instead he is patient with you, not wanting anyone to perish, but everyone to come to repentance." 2 Peter 3:9

God wants to save every human being, but God will not force anyone to love Him. God gave man a will to choose. He will not impede upon mans choice to love Him or hate Him. Thus God demonstrates His love in order that man will choose the right path, and He demonstrated His love like this:

"But God demonstrated his love toward us, in that, while we were yet sinners, Christ died for us." Romans 5:8

Will you choose life today my friend?

 

[Bodhi]

Okay so if god's plan was for everyone to enter into heaven, and there are souls who are not in heaven, obviously and contrary to what you said, what god wants to happen can indeed be stopped.