Iraqi troops suffer mass slaughter one mile from Baghdad: the general ISIS Chat thread

[zombie]

This has just become a back and forth not a discussion. It's reached a point where y'all are writing and neither side is really being reached or convince at least in my opinion

I can live with that in all honesty. The world mostly agrees with me and that's more then enough comfort for me. Janklow at least has reason behind his points, although most of the world obviously blames America mostly for the mess taking place there now. I did concede to some of his points though, so ideas are being exchanged. Zombie is just being Zombie, a so called Jamaican Black man who thinks like a 1400s Spaniard conquistador. His logic is almost gone at this point but he shockingly admitted Israel's settlement building isn't helping the situation. So that's progress on its own.

Maybe I should end the discussion though, depends on how the news in Iraq is going. I knew some people would stick to how they feel and that's okay, I mostly made this thread to show people that America going back into Iraq is mostly a waste of time

I think nothing like a conquistador, i don't want america to oppress the muslims in the mid-east or take their resources but the reality of the situation is these people are doing genocide they threaten the entire world and want to convert or kill everyone. they follow a religion that demand that all non-muslim live under subjugation in muslim lands i cannot blame israel for not wanting to accept these people into their society. You read the word apartheid and think it's like how south africa was, that's a simplistic and way of seeing things.

 

[zombie]

This has just become a back and forth not a discussion. It's reached a point where y'all are writing and neither side is really being reached or convince at least in my opinion

he wants us to care about the opinions of people who want to kill us and kill given the chance no matter what we do.

he wants to to abandon our closest ally, an ally that is surrounded by enemies even if doing so would send a horrible message to our other allies around the world.

he wants israel to accept potential terrorist as equal citizens even if doing so in the long term will destroy the state.

he also wants us to forget our responsibility of fixing iraq.

he is basically a coward in all this positions we must avoid confrontation that is what he wants.

what i want is for the united states to take back iraq and keep it as long as needed

i want us to support our allies no matter what the world says the usa should not bend ti world opinion

i want all threats of radical islam confronted.

i support israel existing as a jewish state

 

[Focal Point]

If Israel got off their racist shit with African blacks I'd have more respect for them than sympathy

 

[kingblaze84]

This has just become a back and forth not a discussion. It's reached a point where y'all are writing and neither side is really being reached or convince at least in my opinion

he wants us to care about the opinions of people who want to kill us and kill given the chance no matter what we do.

he wants to to abandon our closest ally, an ally that is surrounded by enemies even if doing so would send a horrible message to our other allies around the world.

he wants israel to accept potential terrorist as equal citizens even if doing so in the long term will destroy the state.

he also wants us to forget our responsibility of fixing iraq.

he is basically a coward in all this positions we must avoid confrontation that is what he wants.

what i want is for the united states to take back iraq and keep it as long as needed

i want us to support our allies no matter what the world says the usa should not bend ti world opinion

i want all threats of radical islam confronted.

i support israel existing as a jewish state

How much is all that going to cost? You admitted yourself America having a lot of debt is a bad thing, spending money nonstop on all this BS is part of what is making inflation in America worse and people nationwide are complaining about high expenses already. Neverending spending on military affairs is part of what broke the Spaniard Empire and British Empire, but if you really believe in what you're saying, let's see how this little war in Iraq plays out. Let's see how increasing recruitment worldwide (not just with ISIS) to fight against America due to foreign policy works out.

 

[janklow]

The grievances of Al-Qaeda don't have to be catered to obviously but it doesn't mean America has to ignore them either, ignoring the grievances means ignoring how millions around the world feel. But if one will take the words of the king of Jordan over a random Al-Qaeda member, then of course that's understandable

i think you ignore al-Qaeda and consider the grievances of the millions differently. i mean, of the king of Jordan and al-Qaeda say the exact same thing, you still listen to it. you just don't listen to it from the latter.

I can live with that in all honesty. The world mostly agrees with me and that's more then enough comfort for me. Janklow at least has reason behind his points, although most of the world obviously blames America mostly for the mess taking place there now.

i do my best

 

[(Nope)]

America needs to stop with the bullshit and leave the region or embrace being the villain. There is no fucking diplomacy in selectively bombing people; you are still bombing people. This thin veneer of diplomacy is insulting to the world and is conducive to nothing.

 

[kingblaze84]

The air strikes aren't stopping the chaos in Iraq, even in Baghdad smh, 45 people died in explosions all over Bagdhad yesterday....America needs Iraqi oil badly though, so I guess the interference in Iraq's affairs will continue, but this is gonna be a very expensive war. And I say that because ISIS in Iraq and Syria today captured many of the weapons and bullets America dropped over to Kurdish areas in Syria
http://news.yahoo.com/syrian-airstrikes-kill-8-town-near-jordan-122508707.html

IS fighters seize weapons cache meant for Kurds

BEIRUT (AP) — Islamic State group fighters seized at least one cache of weapons airdropped by U.S.-led coalition forces that were meant to supply Kurdish militiamen battling the extremist group in a border town, activists said Tuesday.

The cache of weapons included hand grenades, ammunition and rocket-propelled grenade launchers, according to a video uploaded by a media group loyal to the Islamic State group.

--Time for America to drop off some more weapons and aid over there....right? Let's hope this war is worth it

 

[janklow]

Time for America to drop off some more weapons and aid over there....right? Let's hope this war is worth it

eh, to be fair, low-level shit like that happens all the time with air drops. it looks dumb as hell, but it's not like we didn't accidental drop supplies that the Germans snagged in WWII, for example.

 

[kingblaze84]

Time for America to drop off some more weapons and aid over there....right? Let's hope this war is worth it

eh, to be fair, low-level shit like that happens all the time with air drops. it looks dumb as hell, but it's not like we didn't accidental drop supplies that the Germans snagged in WWII, for example.

That's fair, but how many American weapons, aid and ammo is ISIS going to get?! We might as well be arming them directly! I'm starting to wonder if this is all being done intentionally, I wouldn't doubt ISIS has spies and scouts speaking directly to American military members on the ground. It's like they know everything America is going to do ahead of time

 

[kingblaze84]

ISIS bombs are getting close to American embassy workers and soldiers in Baghdad, Iraq.....
http://hotair.com/archives/2014/10/21/isis-mortar-shells-now-landing-in-baghdads-green-zone/

In a bad sign for the future of security in Baghdad, ISIS forces are apparently close enough to the center of the Iraqi capital that they are firing mortars which are landing inside the heavily fortified Green Zone.

Officials in Baghdad confirmed on Tuesday that two mortars landed within 500 meters of the United States embassy in the Green Zone. That portion of the city houses Iraqi government facilities as well as American and British diplomatic installations. ISIS militants on Twitter reportedly claimed credit for striking targets inside the Green Zone moments after the attack.

--Might be time for Americans to leave Iraq, before things get uglier. ISIS is dying to get their hands on an American soldier and that's the last thing we need

 

[janklow]

That's fair, but how many American weapons, aid and ammo is ISIS going to get?! We might as well be arming them directly!

well, we're talking about grenades and such ... with a GPS tracker on them. again, there IS a difference between "air drop gets snagged" and "arming ISIS directly." if you ARE doing air drops, there's some variables at work there.

 

[kingblaze84]

That's fair, but how many American weapons, aid and ammo is ISIS going to get?! We might as well be arming them directly!

well, we're talking about grenades and such ... with a GPS tracker on them. again, there IS a difference between "air drop gets snagged" and "arming ISIS directly." if you ARE doing air drops, there's some variables at work there.

I don't think America is funding ISIS directly but it did in the past. America rushed to fund any rebels fighting against Assad for awhile and many of the rebels were ISIS/Al-Qaeda members (in disguise to be fair but why get involved when no one has been vetted there yet). And of course, America indirectly did it again by funding Syrian rebels 500 million dollars worth of ammo and weapons, money ISIS and its buddies will get. Saudi Arabia is playing us like crazy. The emirs and princes who support both groups in the region have to like this.

 

[janklow]

I don't think America is funding ISIS directly but it did in the past. America rushed to fund any rebels fighting against Assad for awhile and many of the rebels were ISIS/Al-Qaeda members (in disguise to be fair but why get involved when no one has been vetted there yet). And of course, America indirectly did it again by funding Syrian rebels 500 million dollars worth of ammo and weapons, money ISIS and its buddies will get. Saudi Arabia is playing us like crazy. The emirs and princes who support both groups in the region have to like this.

you might be overstating that funding when you call it arming, though, as the constantly complaint from rebels was "the US isn't actually giving us anything"

 

[kingblaze84]

I don't think America is funding ISIS directly but it did in the past. America rushed to fund any rebels fighting against Assad for awhile and many of the rebels were ISIS/Al-Qaeda members (in disguise to be fair but why get involved when no one has been vetted there yet). And of course, America indirectly did it again by funding Syrian rebels 500 million dollars worth of ammo and weapons, money ISIS and its buddies will get. Saudi Arabia is playing us like crazy. The emirs and princes who support both groups in the region have to like this.

you might be overstating that funding when you call it arming, though, as the constantly complaint from rebels was "the US isn't actually giving us anything"

The rebels have been complaining for some time, but they have received some funding to be fair. Not the amount they want, but since these rebels usually are losing, the weapons end up in ISIS hands anyway and it makes the problem worse.

 

[kingblaze84]

With all these American air strikes, why is Iraq's army unable to take back Mosul and the larger Iraqi cities it lost to ISIS?

 

[janklow]

The rebels have been complaining for some time, but they have received some funding to be fair. Not the amount they want, but since these rebels usually are losing, the weapons end up in ISIS hands anyway and it makes the problem worse.

to be fair, this seems to be overstating weapons ending up in ISIS's hands. there's a reason it's a big story about ISIS capturing US-provided goods in Iraq and never one about them being flush with US-provided goods from Syria.

With all these American air strikes, why is Iraq's army unable to take back Mosul and the larger Iraqi cities it lost to ISIS?

air strikes aren't really what's going to accomplish that

 

[kingblaze84]

The rebels have been complaining for some time, but they have received some funding to be fair. Not the amount they want, but since these rebels usually are losing, the weapons end up in ISIS hands anyway and it makes the problem worse.

to be fair, this seems to be overstating weapons ending up in ISIS's hands. there's a reason it's a big story about ISIS capturing US-provided goods in Iraq and never one about them being flush with US-provided goods from Syria.

With all these American air strikes, why is Iraq's army unable to take back Mosul and the larger Iraqi cities it lost to ISIS?

air strikes aren't really what's going to accomplish that

There's been some good news for the Iraqi forces lately, so who knows, maybe they have a shot in Mosul and the other big Sunni cities in a few months. It would depend on how many troops Iran is willing to send in

 

[janklow]

There's been some good news for the Iraqi forces lately, so who knows, maybe they have a shot in Mosul and the other big Sunni cities in a few months. It would depend on how many troops Iran is willing to send in

still going to depend on the politics; Iran can assist, but as a Shia nation, they can't REALLY address issues Sunnis/Kurds have had with the government by their presence alone.

 

[kingblaze84]

There's been some good news for the Iraqi forces lately, so who knows, maybe they have a shot in Mosul and the other big Sunni cities in a few months. It would depend on how many troops Iran is willing to send in

still going to depend on the politics; Iran can assist, but as a Shia nation, they can't REALLY address issues Sunnis/Kurds have had with the government by their presence alone.

So Iraq is fucked basically? Either that or Iraq prays the right dictator comes along. And if Iraqis are smart, allow a 3 part division of the country. Iraq isn't coming together anytime soon, it's not worth all the bloodshed they're going through, Iraqi soldiers can't fight outside Baghdad.

 

[janklow]

So Iraq is fucked basically? Either that or Iraq prays the right dictator comes along. And if Iraqis are smart, allow a 3 part division of the country. Iraq isn't coming together anytime soon, it's not worth all the bloodshed they're going through, Iraqi soldiers can't fight outside Baghdad.

look, call me an optimist, but i don't think "fucked" or "dictator" are the ONLY options in existence