If you believe the Devil will punish you in hell..

[Bodhi]

I'm asking DoYou that question.

But I'll answer your response. If you become something completely different or rather you are reborn in a way that completely changes the makeup of the soul, there is no eternal soul and the mind can be likened to such things as a string of physical phenomena that has no real and enduring existence.

The soul is eternal in that it always exist that does not mean that it is eternally the same. The mind is not the soul they are very similar but not the same thing.

Matt 22: 37

So being that the soul always exists regardless of what changes it goes through, god created satan by creating Lucifer. Lucifer and Satan are one in the same; its two names for the same soul. God created Lucifer knowing good and well that he would rename him satan in the future.

 

[Ajackson17]

Satan was taken from the God of Chaos from Set and was pronounced Set-hen. Set was a man who killed his brother was a King probably around 3500 B.C.

Do I believe in the possibility of a creator, very highly.

Now, do I believe in the bible as actual historical information, 20% and even that is shaky to say, but I believe these are myths and overblown and some taken from other religions and spirtual systems that were once in fact human things. For example, Odin is believed to be a King made into a god. Same with other pharoahs and kings. Humans tend to make life bigger than what it is.

 

[DoUwant2go2Heaven]

Ok.. I'll, again, ask you a question which you have yet to answer.

If god created my soul, am I the same soul whether I am following Christianity or not?

Are you the same soul today in essence, not disposition, as you were when you were "lost"?

I've been born again my friend. My soul has been re-born! Now Christ lives in me and His righteousness has been credited to my account. Thus when I see God, He will not see me, but Christ in me! Hallelujah!

If you never been born-again your soul still has sin smeared on it. Thus when you see God, He will see sin. Sin must be punished and because the sacrifice of Christ was refused, you must pay the penalty for sin yourself. God is just my friend. Amen.

 

[DoUwant2go2Heaven]

I'm asking DoYou that question.

But I'll answer your response. If you become something completely different or rather you are reborn in a way that completely changes the makeup of the soul, there is no eternal soul and the mind can be likened to such things as a string of physical phenomena that has no real and enduring existence.

The soul is eternal in that it always exist that does not mean that it is eternally the same. The mind is not the soul they are very similar but not the same thing.

Matt 22: 37

So being that the soul always exists regardless of what changes it goes through, god created satan by creating Lucifer. Lucifer and Satan are one in the same; its two names for the same soul. God created Lucifer knowing good and well that he would rename him satan in the future.

No. God created Lucifer. Lucifer became Satan when he rebelled.

Did God know in advance that this would happen? Of course. God knows all.

But just because God knew that Lucifer would rebel, doesn't nullify the responsibility that God gave to all of His creative intelligences, which is a responsibility to obey what He says despite the free will He gave us.

God didn't create robots my friend. God created beings that could understand what love is. Robots don't know what love is, they just do what they are programmed to do. God has higher plans for His creative intelligences, thus He gave us a will to understand, feel, and become familiar with what love is all about. Hallelujah!

And because God is the greatest, He paid the ultimate cost and demonstrated true love by sending His Son to die for the sins of humanity!

"Greater love hath no man than this, that a man lay down his life for his friends." John 15:13

There is no higher love that what God did for us my friend! God walked the walk my friend, not only talked the talk! How can anybody be saved if they reject so great a love as Jesus Christ?

 

[Bodhi]

Ok.. I'll, again, ask you a question which you have yet to answer.

If god created my soul, am I the same soul whether I am following Christianity or not?

Are you the same soul today in essence, not disposition, as you were when you were "lost"?

I've been born again my friend. My soul has been re-born! Now Christ lives in me and His righteousness has been credited to my account. Thus when I see God, He will not see me, but Christ in me! Hallelujah!

If you never been born-again your soul still has sin smeared on it. Thus when you see God, He will see sin. Sin must be punished and because the sacrifice of Christ was refused, you must pay the penalty for sin yourself. God is just my friend. Amen.

In other words, you're the same soul. Being reborn in your case suggests that there is a fundamental essence that is enduring.

 

[Bodhi]

God created Lucifer. Lucifer became Satan when he rebelled.

Did God know in advance that this would happen? Of course.

Then God is responsible for it. It's the only logical conclusion. If I create something that I know is going to be destructive, I'm responsible for the destruction that my creation causes because I indirectly played a part. It's my fault.

 

[zombie]

If something is re-born it is not the same thing as it was before.

 

[Bodhi]

If something is re-born it is not the same thing as it was before.

Not essentially. I'm talking about at the core of your being, what can be described as "you". Christian theology establishes the existence of this substantial and enduring thing that is your soul. You may not be the same soul as you were before as in you were not living the same lifestyle or in other words you do not subscribe, now, to the beliefs you once held in the past but fundamentally, you are the same being.

 

[zombie]

I'm asking DoYou that question.

But I'll answer your response. If you become something completely different or rather you are reborn in a way that completely changes the makeup of the soul, there is no eternal soul and the mind can be likened to such things as a string of physical phenomena that has no real and enduring existence.

The soul is eternal in that it always exist that does not mean that it is eternally the same. The mind is not the soul they are very similar but not the same thing.

Matt 22: 37

So being that the soul always exists regardless of what changes it goes through, god created satan by creating Lucifer. Lucifer and Satan are one in the same; its two names for the same soul. God created Lucifer knowing good and well that he would rename him satan in the future.

Angels don't have souls and i have read nothing that says they have them, ANGELS are spirits remember people erroneously use spirit and soul interchangeably i do that sometimes.

The ability to be re-born is a gift given to humans and when we are everything changes.

As for Lucifer becoming satan, GOD made lucifer and the other angels knowing they could rebel he knew that future could come to pass since angels have freewill god also must have know of the possibility that he would not rebel.

which future became reality was lucifers choice.

 

[illedout]

Romans 8:28

And we know that all things work together for good to those who love God,

to those who are the called according to His purpose.

Romans 8:29

For whom He foreknew, He also predestined to be conformed to the image of His Son,

that He might be the firstborn among many brethren.

Romans 8:30

Moreover whom He predestined, these He also called;

whom He called, these He also justified; and whom He justified,

these He also glorified.

*God doesn't make mistakes..

Satan had free will just like the rest of us,

and he doesn't have the power to punish anybody..

 

[zombie]

If something is re-born it is not the same thing as it was before.

Not essentially. I'm talking about at the core of your being, what can be described as "you". Christian theology establishes the existence of this substantial and enduring thing that is your soul. You may not be the same soul as you were before as in you were not living the same lifestyle or in other words you do not subscribe, now, to the beliefs you once held in the past but fundamentally, you are the same being.

This is where we disagree the bible clears says that we become a new creature i read that to mean everything about what you really are is new in gods eyes which means new spirit and soul so fundamentally you are a new being.

 

[KLICHE]

If something is re-born it is not the same thing as it was before.

Not essentially. I'm talking about at the core of your being, what can be described as "you". Christian theology establishes the existence of this substantial and enduring thing that is your soul. You may not be the same soul as you were before as in you were not living the same lifestyle or in other words you do not subscribe, now, to the beliefs you once held in the past but fundamentally, you are the same being.

This is where we disagree the bible clears says that we become a new creature i read that to mean everything about what you really are is new in gods eyes which means new spirit and soul so fundamentally you are a new being.

About the reborn thing, reminds me of an ex of mine.. we would do it all over the 2.5years, just partying etc. then when we split, months later she said she forgives me for any wrong doings because she is now a born again Christian.. I said thanks and didn't try wonder what brought on the change, and cut it short and we never spoke again.. then I see 10years later she still partying hard and God plays no part in her life?? Sorry just a random flashback on my part lol

 

[DoUwant2go2Heaven]

Ok.. I'll, again, ask you a question which you have yet to answer.

If god created my soul, am I the same soul whether I am following Christianity or not?

Are you the same soul today in essence, not disposition, as you were when you were "lost"?

I've been born again my friend. My soul has been re-born! Now Christ lives in me and His righteousness has been credited to my account. Thus when I see God, He will not see me, but Christ in me! Hallelujah!

If you never been born-again your soul still has sin smeared on it. Thus when you see God, He will see sin. Sin must be punished and because the sacrifice of Christ was refused, you must pay the penalty for sin yourself. God is just my friend. Amen.

In other words, you're the same soul. Being reborn in your case suggests that there is a fundamental essence that is enduring.

No. I am a new creature in Christ. Hence being born-again.

 

[DoUwant2go2Heaven]

God created Lucifer. Lucifer became Satan when he rebelled.

Did God know in advance that this would happen? Of course.

Then God is responsible for it. It's the only logical conclusion. If I create something that I know is going to be destructive, I'm responsible for the destruction that my creation causes because I indirectly played a part. It's my fault.

I disagree. God made all things good. He didn't tell Lucifer to rebel. He didn't tell Eve to take of the forbidden fruit. Rather God warned Adam and Eve of the consuences for disobdeince. That's what a loving being is suppose to do. But if you don't abide by the rules, consquences naturally follow.

God isn't indirectly responsible for the actions that His creatures take. That's the power of free will that God gifted us with. In order to understand what love truly is, God had to give His creatures a will to freely choose to experience what love is. Without free will we are robots, programmed to do what the designer designed.

Now if God programmed angels and humans as robots, and in turn programmed us to rebel against Him, than yes God would be responsible. But thank God that isn't the case. So your argument falls flat on it's face. Amen.

 

[DoUwant2go2Heaven]

Oceanic what do you know about butterflies?

 

[zombie]

If something is re-born it is not the same thing as it was before.

Not essentially. I'm talking about at the core of your being, what can be described as "you". Christian theology establishes the existence of this substantial and enduring thing that is your soul. You may not be the same soul as you were before as in you were not living the same lifestyle or in other words you do not subscribe, now, to the beliefs you once held in the past but fundamentally, you are the same being.

This is where we disagree the bible clears says that we become a new creature i read that to mean everything about what you really are is new in gods eyes which means new spirit and soul so fundamentally you are a new being.

About the reborn thing, reminds me of an ex of mine.. we would do it all over the 2.5years, just partying etc. then when we split, months later she said she forgives me for any wrong doings because she is now a born again Christian.. I said thanks and didn't try wonder what brought on the change, and cut it short and we never spoke again.. then I see 10years later she still partying hard and God plays no part in her life?? Sorry just a random flashback on my part lol

Being re-born god sees you different not that you become mr perfect but you accept christ as your savior.

 

[MARIO_DRO]

You'll have to excuse me; I'm on my phone so I'll try to address your reply as clearly as possible. I'll number my responses to each paragraph you've written, respectively.

1. If God created Lucifer, he created Satan. From what I understand, they're the same soul. Just because Lucifer had a change of heart doesn't make him a completely different being.

2. True, creators create but what doesn't make sense is God's supposed omnibenevolence and him knowingly creating an evil entity. When you knowingly do something or you do a thing where you know the outcome of said action, you are fully responsible. If god knowingly creates evil, he is inherently evil himself.

3. Any plan that involves unnecessary evil is not glorious, not to mention the fact that punishing others for your doings is immoral and attempting to reverse the effects of an act you've willfully committed, knowing beforehand all outcomes, is completely irrational. None of what god dies seems wise to me.

1. You fail to comprehend the power of names. God gives names to His creatures in order to define their character and make up. When God created Lucifer, He named him such because he was the "shining one". His name, Lucifer, matched his character and make-up because that is how God created him. When Lucifer rebelled, God changed his name to Satan because he was no longer the "shining one" but rather the "adversary". God didn't create Satan, Lucifer choose to become Satan (the adversary) because of his rebellion against Gods rule.

2. Ridiculous my friend. Human beings have children all the time regardless of the fact that they knowingly realize that one day their child will do bad, wrong, and evil things. But yet we still choose to have children despite the fact that one day that child will grow up and disrespect us, talk back to us, not listen to us, and rebel against us. Parents know that this will one day happen, but yet we still decide to have children regardless. Why? Because we want to reproduce ourselves through our offspring. We want children to love and nurture, despite the fact that they will one day reject all of our hard work, energy, time, and effort. But still love compels us to love our children no matter what.

The same can be said for God. Love is why He created all of us despite the fact that He knew many would reject His love. But because love always win, God is demonstrating the power of love so that all of creation will see how far God will go to reconcile all things back to Himself; Love goes so far that He even sent His Son to die on a cross in order to prove how far He would go to rescue the creatures He created. God not only talks the talk, but He walks the walk. God demonstrated His great love toward us, in that while we were yet sinners, Christ died for us! Can I get a Hallelujah! Praise the Lord forever and ever! Thank you Jesus!

3. The vastness of space is a inadequate representation of how far your thoughts are from Gods thoughts my friend. What seems wise to you is foolishness to God my friend. The wisdom of God is unsearchable my friend. Everything that God does is right, just, and good! There is nothing evil about the plan of God. What is evil is your rebellion against Him. Your failure to submit to His rule and authority is a terrible tragedy and a slap to His face. It's plain old pride. Your saying to the creator that you know better than Him. Your telling God that you can hold the universe together and all things in it with your life and brain power. I mean how utterly foolish is that my friend? It's like a piece of printer paper one day rising up against me and telling me that it doesn't want to go through the printer! How preposterous is that! But yet, here we are as clay creatures who are here today and gone tomorrow telling God that we know better than Him. My goodness! Praise God for His great mercy and patience. It amazes me to see how long-suffering God is toward us. All God has to do is flinch and we would be consumed in an instant. But yet God bares with us and our rebellion, because He will go to great lengths in order to receive us into His kingdom!

Give your life to Christ my friend and live forever with God! Be ye reconciled back to the Father! Put on immortality by the blood of Jesus Christ. God loves you my friend. It's futile to fight against it, because God will always get the last word. You will have to see Him one day and how can you stand before the King of the universe apart from Christ Jesus as your advocate? Don't go to His cosmic court room unclothed and dead in your trespasses in sins! Change your destiny today and accept the King as your Savior! He loves you my friend. Amen.

DAM... GREAT REBUTTAL!

 

[Splackavelli]

You'll have to excuse me; I'm on my phone so I'll try to address your reply as clearly as possible. I'll number my responses to each paragraph you've written, respectively.

1. If God created Lucifer, he created Satan. From what I understand, they're the same soul. Just because Lucifer had a change of heart doesn't make him a completely different being.

2. True, creators create but what doesn't make sense is God's supposed omnibenevolence and him knowingly creating an evil entity. When you knowingly do something or you do a thing where you know the outcome of said action, you are fully responsible. If god knowingly creates evil, he is inherently evil himself.

3. Any plan that involves unnecessary evil is not glorious, not to mention the fact that punishing others for your doings is immoral and attempting to reverse the effects of an act you've willfully committed, knowing beforehand all outcomes, is completely irrational. None of what god dies seems wise to me.

1. You fail to comprehend the power of names. God gives names to His creatures in order to define their character and make up. When God created Lucifer, He named him such because he was the "shining one". His name, Lucifer, matched his character and make-up because that is how God created him. When Lucifer rebelled, God changed his name to Satan because he was no longer the "shining one" but rather the "adversary". God didn't create Satan, Lucifer choose to become Satan (the adversary) because of his rebellion against Gods rule.

2. Ridiculous my friend. Human beings have children all the time regardless of the fact that they knowingly realize that one day their child will do bad, wrong, and evil things. But yet we still choose to have children despite the fact that one day that child will grow up and disrespect us, talk back to us, not listen to us, and rebel against us. Parents know that this will one day happen, but yet we still decide to have children regardless. Why? Because we want to reproduce ourselves through our offspring. We want children to love and nurture, despite the fact that they will one day reject all of our hard work, energy, time, and effort. But still love compels us to love our children no matter what.

The same can be said for God. Love is why He created all of us despite the fact that He knew many would reject His love. But because love always win, God is demonstrating the power of love so that all of creation will see how far God will go to reconcile all things back to Himself; Love goes so far that He even sent His Son to die on a cross in order to prove how far He would go to rescue the creatures He created. God not only talks the talk, but He walks the walk. God demonstrated His great love toward us, in that while we were yet sinners, Christ died for us! Can I get a Hallelujah! Praise the Lord forever and ever! Thank you Jesus!

3. The vastness of space is a inadequate representation of how far your thoughts are from Gods thoughts my friend. What seems wise to you is foolishness to God my friend. The wisdom of God is unsearchable my friend. Everything that God does is right, just, and good! There is nothing evil about the plan of God. What is evil is your rebellion against Him. Your failure to submit to His rule and authority is a terrible tragedy and a slap to His face. It's plain old pride. Your saying to the creator that you know better than Him. Your telling God that you can hold the universe together and all things in it with your life and brain power. I mean how utterly foolish is that my friend? It's like a piece of printer paper one day rising up against me and telling me that it doesn't want to go through the printer! How preposterous is that! But yet, here we are as clay creatures who are here today and gone tomorrow telling God that we know better than Him. My goodness! Praise God for His great mercy and patience. It amazes me to see how long-suffering God is toward us. All God has to do is flinch and we would be consumed in an instant. But yet God bares with us and our rebellion, because He will go to great lengths in order to receive us into His kingdom!

Give your life to Christ my friend and live forever with God! Be ye reconciled back to the Father! Put on immortality by the blood of Jesus Christ. God loves you my friend. It's futile to fight against it, because God will always get the last word. You will have to see Him one day and how can you stand before the King of the universe apart from Christ Jesus as your advocate? Don't go to His cosmic court room unclothed and dead in your trespasses in sins! Change your destiny today and accept the King as your Savior! He loves you my friend. Amen.

i'll do you one better, why didn't god just outright destroy satan/luficer instead of just allowing him to become the prince of evil and merely casting him down to the earth to live torment and deceive mankind.

 

[Bodhi]

This is where we disagree the bible clears says that we become a new creature i read that to mean everything about what you really are is new in gods eyes which means new spirit and soul so fundamentally you are a new being.

So when you make a decision to follow Christ, what happens to your old soul and where does this new one come from? Also, if you were a believer before and you were "reborn", what happens to your reborn soul if you become an atheist?

If you are reborn and absolutely everything changes, you are no longer you and you are basically switched out for something or someone else. In that case, God should have created the new soul from jump, especially since he knew it would happen. Essentially, the new soul didnt learn anything since it never was the old soul to begin with.

The ability to be re-born is a gift given to humans and when we are everything changes.

That's not a gift given to anybody. If what you're saying is that when you make a decision to follow Christ, you are destroyed and someone else replaces you, neither soul really gains anything from it.

As for Lucifer becoming satan, GOD made lucifer and the other angels knowing they could rebel he knew that future could come to pass since angels have freewill god also must have know of the possibility that he would not rebel.

which future became reality was lucifers choice.

No, if god is omniscient, he knew what choice lucifer would make before he made it. Since he knew that, and still created him, he's responsible. We've been through this open theism thing and it doesnt work unless you're willing to give up God's omniscience.

 

[Bodhi]

I disagree. God made all things good.

while knowing they would do evil.

He didn't tell Lucifer to rebel.

But he knew he would

God warned Adam and Eve of the consuences for disobdeince.

What's the reason for any warning? He knew, before and after he warned them, that they would disobey.

God isn't indirectly responsible for the actions that His creatures take.

Yes he is.

If I create a robot with artificial intelligence and the ability to make its own decisions, but I knew before I even made it that it would murder an innocent person.. and the robot eventually did that, would I be responsible for that persons death?

God had to give His creatures a will to freely choose to experience what love is.

So you're saying God has limits? Because if God can do anything, I'm pretty sure he could easily create man and woman to experience love without creating evil.

Without free will we are robots, programmed to do what the designer designed.

You say we have free will and we are still "programmed to do what the designer designed". For instance, there are physical and mental limits that generally come along with being human.

Now if God programmed angels and humans as robots, and in turn programmed us to rebel against Him, than yes God would be responsible.

He did. Theoretically, he programmed everything about us down to our every single thought. How? Because he's omniscient and omnipotent. If he's omniscient, he knew everything about me before he created me. He's also omnipotent so he had the power to change anything he didn't like. I'm here today as I am so anything about me is according to his will since obviously, I've been willed into existence. Everything about me was programmed to his liking.