I need someone to make sense of Farrakhan being born again....

[MARIO_DRO]

BOTTOM LINE

HE USED TO BE A CHRISTIAN.. NOW HE'S SAYING THAT JESUS IS HIS REDEAMER

HE WAS APOLOGIZING FOR ALLLLLL THE STUFF THAT HE HAS BEEN TEACHING ALL THESE YEARS THAT MAY HAVE CAUSED PEOPLE TO STRAY

 

[The Lonious Monk]

I dont know about NOI but true Islam accepts/believes in Christ

No disrespek to the NOI by "true"

Not as Christians do though. To truly be a Christian, you have to believe that Christ was the son of God and died as a penance for the sins of the world. Muslims believe that Jesus was a highly revered prophet (maybe even the highest depending on who you ask), however he wasn't divine and he didn't really die on the cross.

I dont know about NOI but true Islam accepts/believes in Christ

No disrespek to the NOI by "true"

NOI definitely believes in Jesus. They believe that Moses, Jesus and Muhammad are the holiest profits of Islam. They also believe in the TRUTHS of the bible. They acknowledge that some of the bible is true but the majority of it has been tampered with, polluted and corrupted. The NOI believes that you can't be a Muslim if you don't believe in Jesus. orthodox Islam believes the same. They just don't believe that Jesus was fathered by a ghost or any of that hocus pocus born of a virgin stuff. They do believe in the resurrection of Christ though.

Not exactly. An actual Muslim can correct me if I'm wrong, but Muslims don't believe Jesus died on the cross. They believe that God replaced him with another person and took him to heaven. There he is still alive and waiting for the day that God will send him back to rule over his people.

Also, from an athiest standpoint, it's fine to call Jesus divine birth hocus pocus. However, it's silly to say that when coming from the standpoint of a religion that has more than enough of its own supernatural stuff.

You're correct we don't believe Isa (as) died on the cross. Allah raised Isa to the heavens, and will return to lead all who submit to Allah's will in prayer.

Muslims believe that Isa was conceived without Mary having had sexual intercourse with a man. As Allah has the power to do all things. This is covered in.. Surah 19 Maryam .

Cool, didn't want to misrepresent anyone's faith.

Anyway, Christians and Muslims shouldn't be beefing. That's stupid. Both groups serve the same God and largely believe in the importance of the same people up until the introduction of Paul/Mohammed.

However, it's a mistake to believe that Christianity and Islam is interchangeable. If you believe in one, you pretty much have to believe the other is wrong, so it's natural that there would be a competition between the two groups for followers. That said, in either case, both pretty much mandate that each person has to make the right choice for him or herself, so in the end what matters isn't the people pushing a particular set of beliefs, it's the heart of the person that chooses to believe. Ultimately, Christians and Muslims can work together for common goals, but by both sets of doctrines there really is a limit to how much could or should mingle. A Christian leading a sect of Muslims should probably be denounced by both sides if that is what's going on here.

 

[Kwan Dai]

I dont know about NOI but true Islam accepts/believes in Christ

No disrespek to the NOI by "true"

Not as Christians do though. To truly be a Christian, you have to believe that Christ was the son of God and died as a penance for the sins of the world. Muslims believe that Jesus was a highly revered prophet (maybe even the highest depending on who you ask), however he wasn't divine and he didn't really die on the cross.

I dont know about NOI but true Islam accepts/believes in Christ

No disrespek to the NOI by "true"

NOI definitely believes in Jesus. They believe that Moses, Jesus and Muhammad are the holiest profits of Islam. They also believe in the TRUTHS of the bible. They acknowledge that some of the bible is true but the majority of it has been tampered with, polluted and corrupted. The NOI believes that you can't be a Muslim if you don't believe in Jesus. orthodox Islam believes the same. They just don't believe that Jesus was fathered by a ghost or any of that hocus pocus born of a virgin stuff. They do believe in the resurrection of Christ though.

Not exactly. An actual Muslim can correct me if I'm wrong, but Muslims don't believe Jesus died on the cross. They believe that God replaced him with another person and took him to heaven. There he is still alive and waiting for the day that God will send him back to rule over his people.

Also, from an athiest standpoint, it's fine to call Jesus divine birth hocus pocus. However, it's silly to say that when coming from the standpoint of a religion that has more than enough of its own supernatural stuff.

You're correct we don't believe Isa (as) died on the cross. Allah raised Isa to the heavens, and will return to lead all who submit to Allah's will in prayer.

Muslims believe that Isa was conceived without Mary having had sexual intercourse with a man. As Allah has the power to do all things. This is covered in.. Surah 19 Maryam .

Cool, didn't want to misrepresent anyone's faith.

Anyway, Christians and Muslims shouldn't be beefing. That's stupid. Both groups serve the same God and largely believe in the importance of the same people up until the introduction of Paul/Mohammed.

However, it's a mistake to believe that Christianity and Islam is interchangeable. If you believe in one, you pretty much have to believe the other is wrong, so it's natural that there would be a competition between the two groups for followers. That said, in either case, both pretty much mandate that each person has to make the right choice for him or herself, so in the end what matters isn't the people pushing a particular set of beliefs, it's the heart of the person that chooses to believe. Ultimately, Christians and Muslims can work together for common goals, but by both sets of doctrines there really is a limit to how much could or should mingle. A Christian leading a sect of Muslims should probably be denounced by both sides if that is what's going on here.

I don't think it's anyone's place to denounce. If, Farrahkhan and his followers "choose" to go down this route it's their prerogative. It's the same as making a choice to believe in any other spiritual\belief system.

 

[a.mann]

Over a decade ago he started using a more ""user friendly"" approach towards his sermons as to not completely alienate black Christians, like when he first took over the Nation.

And for the most part this has worked to the attract more open-minded.....

but this....this is a very interesting turn of events to say the least.

 

[The Lonious Monk]

I don't think it's anyone's place to denounce. If, Farrahkhan and his followers "choose" to go down this route it's their prerogative. It's the same as making a choice to believe in any other spiritual\belief system.

To some extent I agree, but only if they separate themselves. I think there is a problem when you claim to be a member of one belief system but push things that are fundamentally inconsistent with that system.

 

[Kwan Dai]

I don't think it's anyone's place to denounce. If, Farrahkhan and his followers "choose" to go down this route it's their prerogative. It's the same as making a choice to believe in any other spiritual\belief system.

To some extent I agree, but only if they separate themselves. I think there is a problem when you claim to be a member of one belief system but push things that are fundamentally inconsistent with that system.

Muslims do not fully believe we are totally different from Jew or Christians. Jew and Christians are referred to as people of the book. And those that follow the Torah (jews) and Injil (christians) according to there original revelation to worship God and God only are on the "right path". A Muslim has to believe in ALL of the prophets and the religious books sent to the people for guidance in order to consider oneself a Muslim. There are five other pillars which, I will not bore you with.

So, with this being the case Farrakhan doesn't see himself as preaching\teaching against Islamic tenets.

 

[The Lonious Monk]

I don't think it's anyone's place to denounce. If, Farrahkhan and his followers "choose" to go down this route it's their prerogative. It's the same as making a choice to believe in any other spiritual\belief system.

To some extent I agree, but only if they separate themselves. I think there is a problem when you claim to be a member of one belief system but push things that are fundamentally inconsistent with that system.

Muslims do not fully believe we are totally different from Jew or Christians. Jew and Christians are referred to as people of the book. And those that follow the Torah (jews) and Injil (christians) according to there original revelation to worship God and God only are on the "right path". A Muslim has to believe in ALL of the prophets and the religious books sent to the people for guidance in order to consider oneself a Muslim. There are five other pillars which, I will not bore you with.

So, with this being the case Farrakhan doesn't see himself as preaching\teaching against Islamic tenets.

Yeah, but doesn't the Quran specifically condemn the Christian deification of Jesus and the Jewish reverence shown towards Moses?

 

[AZTG]

I don't think it's anyone's place to denounce. If, Farrahkhan and his followers "choose" to go down this route it's their prerogative. It's the same as making a choice to believe in any other spiritual\belief system.

To some extent I agree, but only if they separate themselves. I think there is a problem when you claim to be a member of one belief system but push things that are fundamentally inconsistent with that system.

Muslims do not fully believe we are totally different from Jew or Christians. Jew and Christians are referred to as people of the book. And those that follow the Torah (jews) and Injil (christians) according to there original revelation to worship God and God only are on the "right path". A Muslim has to believe in ALL of the prophets and the religious books sent to the people for guidance in order to consider oneself a Muslim. There are five other pillars which, I will not bore you with.

So, with this being the case Farrakhan doesn't see himself as preaching\teaching against Islamic tenets.

Yeah, but doesn't the Quran specifically condemn the Christian deification of Jesus and the Jewish reverence shown towards Moses?

Not if they follow their books as originally intended.

There is a debate however that both the Torah and Bible have been corrupted and changed by man.

 

[The Lonious Monk]

I don't think it's anyone's place to denounce. If, Farrahkhan and his followers "choose" to go down this route it's their prerogative. It's the same as making a choice to believe in any other spiritual\belief system.

To some extent I agree, but only if they separate themselves. I think there is a problem when you claim to be a member of one belief system but push things that are fundamentally inconsistent with that system.

Muslims do not fully believe we are totally different from Jew or Christians. Jew and Christians are referred to as people of the book. And those that follow the Torah (jews) and Injil (christians) according to there original revelation to worship God and God only are on the "right path". A Muslim has to believe in ALL of the prophets and the religious books sent to the people for guidance in order to consider oneself a Muslim. There are five other pillars which, I will not bore you with.

So, with this being the case Farrakhan doesn't see himself as preaching\teaching against Islamic tenets.

Yeah, but doesn't the Quran specifically condemn the Christian deification of Jesus and the Jewish reverence shown towards Moses?

Not if they follow their books as originally intended.

There is a debate however that both the Torah and Bible have been corrupted and changed by man.

They most certainly have. The Quaran likely has too, though probably not to the same extent since it's not a compendium of different books from different authors like the Bible and Torah.

 

[AZTG]

I don't think it's anyone's place to denounce. If, Farrahkhan and his followers "choose" to go down this route it's their prerogative. It's the same as making a choice to believe in any other spiritual\belief system.

To some extent I agree, but only if they separate themselves. I think there is a problem when you claim to be a member of one belief system but push things that are fundamentally inconsistent with that system.

Muslims do not fully believe we are totally different from Jew or Christians. Jew and Christians are referred to as people of the book. And those that follow the Torah (jews) and Injil (christians) according to there original revelation to worship God and God only are on the "right path". A Muslim has to believe in ALL of the prophets and the religious books sent to the people for guidance in order to consider oneself a Muslim. There are five other pillars which, I will not bore you with.

So, with this being the case Farrakhan doesn't see himself as preaching\teaching against Islamic tenets.

Yeah, but doesn't the Quran specifically condemn the Christian deification of Jesus and the Jewish reverence shown towards Moses?

Not if they follow their books as originally intended.

There is a debate however that both the Torah and Bible have been corrupted and changed by man.

They most certainly have. The Quaran likely has too, though probably not to the same extent since it's not a compendium of different books from different authors like the Bible and Torah.

Not defending it, but there are about 3 million people on earth that have memorized the koran. They are called Hafiz. There have always been a group of Hafiz ever since prophet Muhammads time. They are to gaurd the Koran from ever being changed.

I personally cant sit here and say I believe that the Koran has always stayed the same though.

 

[HerbalVaporCapers]

I don't think it's anyone's place to denounce. If, Farrahkhan and his followers "choose" to go down this route it's their prerogative. It's the same as making a choice to believe in any other spiritual\belief system.

To some extent I agree, but only if they separate themselves. I think there is a problem when you claim to be a member of one belief system but push things that are fundamentally inconsistent with that system.

Muslims do not fully believe we are totally different from Jew or Christians. Jew and Christians are referred to as people of the book. And those that follow the Torah (jews) and Injil (christians) according to there original revelation to worship God and God only are on the "right path". A Muslim has to believe in ALL of the prophets and the religious books sent to the people for guidance in order to consider oneself a Muslim. There are five other pillars which, I will not bore you with.

So, with this being the case Farrakhan doesn't see himself as preaching\teaching against Islamic tenets.

Accepting Christ as your savior, and believing in his divinity would though.

As Muslims we believe that the return of Jesus pbuh will bring the coming of the Mahdi, or Messiah, but not that Jesus pbuh is the Messiah himself.

Perhaps someone who is more familiar with NOI beliefs can confirm or deny this, but isn't Wallace Fard Muhammad considered Allah incarnate on Earth in their beliefs? If so, then this alone would make what they believe outside the realm of Islam and not Muslims in the first place

 

[SolemnSauce]

This cool and all, but this like the reformed kingpin coming back to the hood and saying it ain't cool to slang dope.

I think we way past that my nigga

 

[blackgod813]

They believe the bible is about us now like chattel slavery they dont believe the shit was prophecy

 

[Kwan Dai]

I don't think it's anyone's place to denounce. If, Farrahkhan and his followers "choose" to go down this route it's their prerogative. It's the same as making a choice to believe in any other spiritual\belief system.

To some extent I agree, but only if they separate themselves. I think there is a problem when you claim to be a member of one belief system but push things that are fundamentally inconsistent with that system.

Muslims do not fully believe we are totally different from Jew or Christians. Jew and Christians are referred to as people of the book. And those that follow the Torah (jews) and Injil (christians) according to there original revelation to worship God and God only are on the "right path". A Muslim has to believe in ALL of the prophets and the religious books sent to the people for guidance in order to consider oneself a Muslim. There are five other pillars which, I will not bore you with.

So, with this being the case Farrakhan doesn't see himself as preaching\teaching against Islamic tenets.

Accepting Christ as your savior, and believing in his divinity would though.

As Muslims we believe that the return of Jesus pbuh will bring the coming of the Mahdi, or Messiah, but not that Jesus pbuh is the Messiah himself.

Perhaps someone who is more familiar with NOI beliefs can confirm or deny this, but isn't Wallace Fard Muhammad considered Allah incarnate on Earth in their beliefs? If so, then this alone would make what they believe outside the realm of Islam and not Muslims in the first place

Correct. But I am not arguing what I believe as a Muslim. I am assuming what Farrakhan may believe.

Fard did consider himself as such. But the NOI theology has morphed over the many years of it's existence.

 

[7figz]

Shit, try to make sense of anyone being "born again".

 

[Kwan Dai]

I don't think it's anyone's place to denounce. If, Farrahkhan and his followers "choose" to go down this route it's their prerogative. It's the same as making a choice to believe in any other spiritual\belief system.

To some extent I agree, but only if they separate themselves. I think there is a problem when you claim to be a member of one belief system but push things that are fundamentally inconsistent with that system.

Muslims do not fully believe we are totally different from Jew or Christians. Jew and Christians are referred to as people of the book. And those that follow the Torah (jews) and Injil (christians) according to there original revelation to worship God and God only are on the "right path". A Muslim has to believe in ALL of the prophets and the religious books sent to the people for guidance in order to consider oneself a Muslim. There are five other pillars which, I will not bore you with.

So, with this being the case Farrakhan doesn't see himself as preaching\teaching against Islamic tenets.

Yeah, but doesn't the Quran specifically condemn the Christian deification of Jesus and the Jewish reverence shown towards Moses?

Not if they follow their books as originally intended.

There is a debate however that both the Torah and Bible have been corrupted and changed by man.

They most certainly have. The Quaran likely has too, though probably not to the same extent since it's not a compendium of different books from different authors like the Bible and Torah.

Not defending it, but there are about 3 million people on earth that have memorized the koran. They are called Hafiz. There have always been a group of Hafiz ever since prophet Muhammads time. They are to gaurd the Koran from ever being changed.

I personally cant sit here and say I believe that the Koran has always stayed the same though.

This is correct. The Quran is preserved through the Hafiz. And for Muslims it's a promise from God that the Quran would remain untainted. You could put a Hafiz from different countries in a room and they would all recite the Quran the exact same. Now translations and interpretations are an entirely different thing.

 

[The Lonious Monk]

Shit, try to make sense of anyone being "born again".

lol of all the things in the Bible that should be one of the easiest to understand. "Born Again" is just a symbolic term and it's not even limited to Christian lexicon.

 

[7figz]

Shit, try to make sense of anyone being "born again".

lol of all the things in the Bible that should be one of the easiest to understand. "Born Again" is just a symbolic term and it's not even limited to Christian lexicon.

So it's BS like the rest of the bible then ?

 

[The Lonious Monk]

Shit, try to make sense of anyone being "born again".

lol of all the things in the Bible that should be one of the easiest to understand. "Born Again" is just a symbolic term and it's not even limited to Christian lexicon.

So it's BS like the rest of the bible then ?

If that's what you choose to believe, sure.