"I Fear I May Have Integrated My People Into a Burning House" - Martin Luther King Jr.

[LEMZIMUS_RAMSEY]

Imo MLK and MX are like ying and yang. They were not perfect.

 

[The Lonious Monk]

Come on now. Comparing those two quotes just because they both have fire in them is stupid. MLK wasn't saying that Black people needed to save America for white people. He was saying that we needed to work so as to change America's ways of feeding off of and stepping all over the poor and disenfranchised. Being that Blacks are disproportionately poor and disenfranchised, he was still looking out for Black people. To me, he kinda looked forward and saw that integration would be pointless if America could just use economics to keep Blacks down in place of law.

Also, I agree with Zombie. I don't think we would be in quite the same position we are now if MLK had lived. The large part of the Black Communities problems is that everyone saw Integration as the "Great Success" instead of the first victory in a long war. So once integration came a long, that unity disappeared as everyone went to try and get thier own piece of the pie and what leadership we had disappeared or took the form of people more interested in photo ops than effecting real change. I think if MLK was still around, he would have tried to keep people focused. And these comments if they are true suggest he was of that mindset.

Why continue to speak and demonstrate for something you believe will be pointless?

Did you miss the second part of that sentence: "...if America could just use economics to keep Blacks down in place of law." In other words, he realized that there would have to be a second phase of black financial empowerment to go along with the Civil Rights movement.

some could argue that integration has done more harm to black people than good.. pre-integration or pre-civil rights era I should say you had very strong tight nit black communities... (Black Wall street in Tulsa OK in the 1920's as well as in Durham NC) and in many other cites and towns across the country Black people knew that they had to do for themselves. All those strong Black communities were either burned down or integrated..

Today you don't have a Black community, you have Black neighborhoods, but not a community...

So in many respects I feel like Martin King fought a good fight but at the end of the day why ask to sat at the table with other people when you have the ability to set you're own table.

I think you basically make the case for why integration was necessary though. What happened to Black Wall Street? It was wiped off the face of the Earth. That was only possible because of the position blacks had in the country at the time. Say what you want about integration, but it's made it impossible for something like that or Rosewood to ever happen again.

The fact is, integration was necessary. Blacks are a minority in this country. To really succeed, we had to get to the point where we were recognized by the law. Like I said before, the problem is not that integration happened. It's that people saw integration as THE victory, and basically abandoned everything that came before it.

 

[NeighborhoodNomad.]

"...if America could just use economics to keep Blacks down in place of law."

When did he say this?

 

[Arya Tsaddiq]

IMO, I think what MLK realized is that integration would open the door to the same "liberties" available to whites at the time. But I think he saw the big picture towards the end.

Not only would integration not solve the deep rooted issues facing the black community do to years of exploitation and targeted destruction, buy it would also further dissolve the cohesiveness of the black community. Integration ultimately just caused class warfare between blacks who were already divided enough. When mlk was alive, it probably was a time were blacks were most unified. But because if what he was trying to do, we just became apart of a broken system.

There are still people who are poor and less fortunate suffering from the same manufactured situations as they were back then just to a different degree. With integration, blacks will now just look to become apart of the "white man's" system to survive, when we could have used the unity to build and help our own. Now we have just become apart of a broken system. And it has become even more obvious as of late. Thus him saying he walked his people into a burning building.

I think he regretted what he originally set out to do and just felt as if he could have put the same message across, just with a different end goal in mind.

 

[white715]

The ic has some of the dumbest niggas on earth.

They were using the burning house in two different ways MLK was using it as a metaphor and Malcolm was talking about a literal house.

MLK talked about putting out the fire because it would affect black people. He saw that America's economic system was flawed and had to be changed in order for black people and poor people of all colors to truely be equal and free.

The whole reason he was in Memphis in the first place was to support underpaid black sanitation workers. MLK dedicated his life and lost his life fighting for the rights of black people, in what way does that make him a coon or a house nigga?

 

[white715]

And all yall niggas talking about how we never should have intergrated and black nationism stuff what the hell stopping yall from re-segragrating and starting yall own Black national movement?

Yall niggas is too bitch made to do anything but criticize someone that gave his life so that yours could be better.

 

[DillaDeaf]

Imo MLK and MX are like ying and yang. They were not perfect.

Actually I would go further than that, that MX and MLK needed each other, one couldn't exist without the other. That yin yang dynamic was perfect....They only had one meeting together, correct? Imagine if they kept meeting eacher other and never got killed? This would be something else entirely.

 

[NeighborhoodNomad.]

The ic has some of the dumbest niggas on earth.

They were using the burning house in two different ways MLK was using it as a metaphor and Malcolm was talking about a literal house.

MLK talked about putting out the fire because it would affect black people. He saw that America's economic system was flawed and had to be changed in order for black people and poor people of all colors to truely be equal and free.

The whole reason he was in Memphis in the first place was to support underpaid black sanitation workers. MLK dedicated his life and lost his life fighting for the rights of black people, in what way does that make him a coon or a house nigga?

It's all good to speculate from time to time but I don't remember him speaking publicly about changing the system before being a part of that system.

What he did say though was the quote in the o/p.

Remember the premise of the thread is:

Why would someone fight for something they don't believe in?

&

Why would someone fight for something they believed would be detrimental/destructive for those they are supposedly fighting for?

Because at the end of the day, MLK fought and was killed for a cause he no longer believed in.

And brother, if I'm wrong, enlighten me. I'm here to learn.

 

[south4life]

Look at it from both MLK's and X's perspective, they both wanted to change how Blacks were treated but, they had different ways of going about it.

I feel like had they both not been killed they would have came together to do something about that, because of their death we got The Black Panthers, my uncle David was in the Panthers chapter in Harlem and he told us the teachings of Huey Newton was even more aggressive then what Malcolm talked about and they were working on making a Black Nation so, we were eventually going in the right direction but, thanks to Eldridge Cleaver for dividing The Panthers, they started fighting each other instead of against the system.

 

[white715]

The ic has some of the dumbest niggas on earth.

They were using the burning house in two different ways MLK was using it as a metaphor and Malcolm was talking about a literal house.

MLK talked about putting out the fire because it would affect black people. He saw that America's economic system was flawed and had to be changed in order for black people and poor people of all colors to truely be equal and free.

The whole reason he was in Memphis in the first place was to support underpaid black sanitation workers. MLK dedicated his life and lost his life fighting for the rights of black people, in what way does that make him a coon or a house nigga?

It's all good to speculate from time to time but I don't remember him speaking publicly about changing the system before being a part of that system.

What he did say though was the quote in the o/p.

Remember the premise of the thread is:

Why would someone fight for something they don't believe in?

&

Why would someone fight for something they believed would be detrimental/destructive for those they are supposedly fighting for?

Because at the end of the day, MLK fought and was killed for a cause he no longer believed in.

And brother, if I'm wrong, enlighten me. I'm here to learn.

Dr. King said the above statement to Harry Belafonte in a conversation they had before his death. Belafonte startled at the statement said to him “What should we do?” Dr. King told him that we “Become the firemen, Let us not stand by and let the house burn.”

He is clearly stating that he believed we as a people could "put out the fire"

It wasn't that he no longer believed in what he had been fighting for he just saw that integration wouldn't be enough.

Dr. Martin Luther King Jr. realized that the struggle for integration would ultimately become a struggle for economic rights.

This^^^ is the reason why Dr. King was in Memphis that day he came to support Black sanitation workers

"The night before his assassination in April 1968, Martin Luther King told a group of striking sanitation workers in Memphis, Tennessee: “We’ve got to give ourselves to this struggle until the end. Nothing would be more tragic than to stop at this point in Memphis. We’ve got to see it through” (King, “I’ve Been to the Mountaintop,” 217). King believed the struggle in Memphis exposed the need for economic equality and social justice that he hoped his Poor People’s Campaign would highlight nationally."

 

[white715]

@NeighborhoodNomad. If you are really here to be educated go read some of his words, go to youtube and listen to his speeches, get to know the man and what he stood for and what he fought for, he is more than the I have a dream speech.
http://mlk-kpp01.stanford.edu/index.php/encyclopedia/encyclopedia/enc_poor_peoples_campaign/

Pay close attention to what he says at 1:04

 

[The Lonious Monk]

The sad thing about all of this is that black people have always had more in common with and been in a position to be better friends to poor white people that rich white people ever were. Poor white people were/are just to stupid to realize it. It's funny how well rich people pulled their strings. The last thing rich people ever want is for poor people of all races to unity and fight for economic equality, so they used race as a method of dividing conquering. This was done hundreds of years ago before blacks were even brought to the US as slaves, and even today it still works like a charm.

 

[NeighborhoodNomad.]

@white715

I hear what you're saying. But I don't understand why the agenda would be for we the people to become the firemen and put out a fire to a house/system that is designed to exploit and destroy us/the people. And to be outside of the house, realize it's on fire, and continue to walk in, while leading others into that very house makes no sense to me.

Why would MLK say "I've come across something that deeply disturbs me"... if he believed he was still doing the right thing. He had a moment of clarity and realized that we were about to get everything he had been fighting so passionately for, only to become the very thing (mentally) he was fighting against. If you want to be a guest in anyone's house, you must play their game or become like those who live in the house.

I like the idea of The Poor Peoples Campaign for economic justice. I support all forms of true justice. But justice will NEVER be executed through asking (your oppressors of all people), or marching. True justice requires revolution. Houses (systems) need to be allowed to be completely burned down. Foundations (mentalities) need to be uprooted. New foundations need to be laid. And new and better homes need to be built.

THE HOUSE!

THE HOUSE!

THE HOUSE IS ON FIRE!!!...

 

[NeighborhoodNomad.]

Oh, and just to be clear, I'm not saying/suggesting that MLK was saying the problem was/is integration. I'm saying he realized that integrating into a crooked system was/is the the problem.

I think MLK was trying to save the propagated "idea" of this country, by saying "I'm afraid that America may be losing what moral vision she may have had,..." When there was never any true morality in this country to begin with. As we all know, this country was built off bloodshed, deceit, slavery, and exploitation.

How can there ever be economic justice in a system that needs there to be a "lower class" in order for there to be an "upper class"?

 

[NeighborhoodNomad.]

Oh, and just to be clear, I'm not saying/suggesting that MLK was saying the problem was/is integration. I'm saying he realized that integrating into a crooked system was/is the the problem.

I think MLK was trying to save the propagated "idea" of this country, by saying "I'm afraid that America may be losing what moral vision she may have had,..." When there was never any true morality in this country to begin with. As we all know, this country was built off bloodshed, deceit, slavery, and exploitation.

How can there ever be economic justice in a system that needs there to be a "lower class" in order for there to be an "upper class"?

When did our society decide it owes everyone a decent existence....whatever happened to personal gumption and initiative? America is descending into a nation of takers who don't wanna work. People continue to wallow and wallow in self pity. America is no longer the home of the brave.

The America you speak of never existed. This country has always been a nation of takers who don't want to work. This land was taken from the Natives and built on the backs of slaves. It's not about self pity, it's about justice.

And as human beings, it's our duty to help others experience a decent existence.

 

[GSonII]

I love MLK and you can never fault a man for seeing something needs fixing then trying to fix it, but integration with these white people was the 2nd part of destroying blacks brought to America. The first part was obviously bringing them here.

 

[young_reezy]

Come on now. Comparing those two quotes just because they both have fire in them is stupid. MLK wasn't saying that Black people needed to save America for white people. He was saying that we needed to work so as to change America's ways of feeding off of and stepping all over the poor and disenfranchised. Being that Blacks are disproportionately poor and disenfranchised, he was still looking out for Black people. To me, he kinda looked forward and saw that integration would be pointless if America could just use economics to keep Blacks down in place of law.

Also, I agree with Zombie. I don't think we would be in quite the same position we are now if MLK had lived. The large part of the Black Communities problems is that everyone saw Integration as the "Great Success" instead of the first victory in a long war. So once integration came a long, that unity disappeared as everyone went to try and get thier own piece of the pie and what leadership we had disappeared or took the form of people more interested in photo ops than effecting real change. I think if MLK was still around, he would have tried to keep people focused. And these comments if they are true suggest he was of that mindset.

Why continue to speak and demonstrate for something you believe will be pointless?

Did you miss the second part of that sentence: "...if America could just use economics to keep Blacks down in place of law." In other words, he realized that there would have to be a second phase of black financial empowerment to go along with the Civil Rights movement.

some could argue that integration has done more harm to black people than good.. pre-integration or pre-civil rights era I should say you had very strong tight nit black communities... (Black Wall street in Tulsa OK in the 1920's as well as in Durham NC) and in many other cites and towns across the country Black people knew that they had to do for themselves. All those strong Black communities were either burned down or integrated..

Today you don't have a Black community, you have Black neighborhoods, but not a community...

So in many respects I feel like Martin King fought a good fight but at the end of the day why ask to sat at the table with other people when you have the ability to set you're own table.

I think you basically make the case for why integration was necessary though. What happened to Black Wall Street? It was wiped off the face of the Earth. That was only possible because of the position blacks had in the country at the time. Say what you want about integration, but it's made it impossible for something like that or Rosewood to ever happen again.

The fact is, integration was necessary. Blacks are a minority in this country. To really succeed, we had to get to the point where we were recognized by the law. Like I said before, the problem is not that integration happened. It's that people saw integration as THE victory, and basically abandoned everything that came before it.

I never said integration the only problem, but like you just stated it was not the victory. what it did was it made some people complacent.

 

[ImTheKangRoundHere]

With MLK help in this American dream alot of races are prospering in this country.a lot of people died for this cause and opportunity

 

[The Lonious Monk]

Oh, and just to be clear, I'm not saying/suggesting that MLK was saying the problem was/is integration. I'm saying he realized that integrating into a crooked system was/is the the problem.

I think MLK was trying to save the propagated "idea" of this country, by saying "I'm afraid that America may be losing what moral vision she may have had,..." When there was never any true morality in this country to begin with. As we all know, this country was built off bloodshed, deceit, slavery, and exploitation.

How can there ever be economic justice in a system that needs there to be a "lower class" in order for there to be an "upper class"?

When did our society decide it owes everyone a decent existence....whatever happened to personal gumption and initiative? America is descending into a nation of takers who don't wanna work. People continue to wallow and wallow in self pity. America is no longer the home of the brave.

The America you speak of never existed. This country has always been a nation of takers who don't want to work. This land was taken from the Natives and built on the backs of slaves. It's not about self pity, it's about justice.

And as human beings, it's our duty to help others experience a decent existence.

NO!!! this nation wasn't built on that premise IE take from others and don't ever contribute. Are U implying/claiming that blacks single handedly built this country? STOP with this nonsense about justice for all and we owe others a decent living/existence....how 'bout personal gumption and getting off ones lazy ass....this nation wasn't built on the back of lazy peoples.....I see homeless people everyday of my life and they aren't starving and, there's literally hundreds of organizations feeding and clothing them....wallow in self-pity and you'll never have 2 work a day in your life.

What did the US give the Native Americans for all the land and resources they took? Not a damn thing. They invoked Manifest Destiny, and claimed it was their divine right to take everything. What did the US give the slaves for all their hard work? Not a damn thing.

I'm not saying that people shouldn't work to live. Of course they should, but let's not act like a lot of people in power haven't shaped law and the country as a whole so that they could make max money off of minimal effort. That's what slavery was about. Rich plantation owners wanted to get richer and they didn't want to do the work or pay for the workers so they force people to do it virtually for free and that was sanctioned by this country for decades.

 

[lostsamuraisotakuend]

2013= end game zombie apocalypse will begin may- aug 2014