Discovered on a faded scrap of papyrus, the words "Jesus said to them, 'My wife …'"

[Bodhi]

THATS LIKE SAYIN EVERYONE IN THE HOSPITAL SHOULD BE WELL...

WHEN U SUFFER FROM SIN, YOU GO TO CHURCH TO GET BETTER..

They would be if doctors and nurses were perfect but they aren't

God, on the other hand, is allegedly perfect

So again, why is the church imperfect?

 

[Jack_Riches]

u gave 3 out of 4 different accounts of eye witnesses who were there at the Crucifixion. in matthew and mark, he says "My God, My God..." this was to fulfill the prophecy of Psalm 22. So Him saying that would be the FIRST thing He said. The LAST thing he said was "I thirst", also to fulfill another prophecy in Pslams 69, bcuz he was thirsty (being nailed to a cross beaten nd bloodied will do that to u), his throat parched, needed a drink to proclaim His last statement, which was "It is finished". I dont see a contradiction ANYWHERE.

and we DO know who the authors were, except in the book of Hebrews. and they WERE eyewitnesses.

Paul did NOT make up his own law lol. Clearly u have not the slightest clue of what youre talking about with that statement

as far as the church creating the Bible? lol c'mon bro. u cant be serious. the original manuscripts are STILL here. what ur sayin is the followers existed before the leader basically. that sounds SO logical to me.

"I warn everyone who hears the words of the prophecy of this book: if anyone adds to them, God will add to him the plagues described in this book, and if anyone takes away from the words of the book of this prophecy, God will take away his share in the tree of life and in the holy city, which are described in this book."

 

[waterproof]

BROKE LAND do not know shit about scriptures and he's always act like know what he talking about, know where in the scripture it says that the church is perfect that's the bullshit

 

[KLICHE]

It's pretty interesting. Jesus never referred to himself as being God or the unique son of God or God in the flesh. Other people promoted that mostly, most notably Paul, who didn't even actually know Jesus. And the only Gospel that really goes out of it's way to portray Jesus as divine was John, and that particular book was the last of the Gospels written and was clearly in response to the debate over whether Jesus was divine or not.

do you even know what you are talking about?

John 10

30 I and the Father are one.”

32 but Jesus said to them, “I have shown you many good works from the Father. For which of these do you stone me?”

33 “We are not stoning you for any good work,” they replied, “but for blasphemy, because you, a mere man, claim to be God.”

34 Jesus answered them, “Is it not written in your Law, ‘I have said you are “gods”’[d]? 35 If he called them ‘gods,’ to whom the word of God came—and Scripture cannot be set aside— 36 what about the one whom the Father set apart as his very own and sent into the world? Why then do you accuse me of blasphemy because I said, ‘I am God’s Son’? 37 Do not believe me unless I do the works of my Father. 38 But if I do them, even though you do not believe me, believe the works, that you may know and understand that the Father is in me, and I in the Father.”

Doesn't say Jesus IS god though.

"i and the father are one" meaning we are the same. meaning i am god

I've viewed it as they hold the

It's pretty interesting. Jesus never referred to himself as being God or the unique son of God or God in the flesh. Other people promoted that mostly, most notably Paul, who didn't even actually know Jesus. And the only Gospel that really goes out of it's way to portray Jesus as divine was John, and that particular book was the last of the Gospels written and was clearly in response to the debate over whether Jesus was divine or not.

do you even know what you are talking about?

John 10

30 I and the Father are one.”

32 but Jesus said to them, “I have shown you many good works from the Father. For which of these do you stone me?”

33 “We are not stoning you for any good work,” they replied, “but for blasphemy, because you, a mere man, claim to be God.”

34 Jesus answered them, “Is it not written in your Law, ‘I have said you are “gods”’[d]? 35 If he called them ‘gods,’ to whom the word of God came—and Scripture cannot be set aside— 36 what about the one whom the Father set apart as his very own and sent into the world? Why then do you accuse me of blasphemy because I said, ‘I am God’s Son’? 37 Do not believe me unless I do the works of my Father. 38 But if I do them, even though you do not believe me, believe the works, that you may know and understand that the Father is in me, and I in the Father.”

These things though have been debated so many times. Some say why then was he praying to himself, that is if he was God himself. Wouldn't make sense to me, anyway. But then their are many contradictory things, like Jesus allegedly saying he does things by the will of the Father.. so guess he alone is not God in that regard. All I know is God is one and to me Jesus is his messenger and messiah to come again.

 

[Bodhi]

u gave 3 out of 4 different accounts of eye witnesses who were there at the Crucifixion. in matthew and mark, he says "My God, My God..." this was to fulfill the prophecy of Psalm 22. So Him saying that would be the FIRST thing He said. The LAST thing he said was "I thirst", also to fulfill another prophecy in Pslams 69, bcuz he was thirsty (being nailed to a cross beaten nd bloodied will do that to u), his throat parched, needed a drink to proclaim His last statement, which was "It is finished". I dont see a contradiction ANYWHERE.

My point is no one recorded him to have said the same thing.

There is also reason to believe that Matthew copied from Mark, using the writings of Mark as he wrote the writings of Matthew. Take a look here:http://dearestwarrior.blogspot.com/2005/10/some-evidence-that-matthew-copied-from.html

 

[Bodhi]

and we DO know who the authors were, except in the book of Hebrews. and they WERE eyewitnesses.

List all 40+ authors

 

[Bodhi]

Paul did NOT make up his own law lol. Clearly u have not the slightest clue of what youre talking about with that statement

That which I speak, I speak it not after the Lord

Let your women keep silence in the churches: for it is not permitted unto them to speak; but they are commanded to be under obedience as also saith the law.

And if they will learn any thing, let them ask their husbands at home: for it is a shame for women to speak in the church.

However, contrary to Paul, we have, in Luke, the prophet Anna who

never left the temple but worshiped night and day, fasting and praying. Coming up to them at that very moment, she gave thanks to God and spoke about the child to all who were looking forward to the redemption of Jerusalem.

In fact, one of the missing gospels excluded from the Bible is the gospel of Mary, a woman.

 

[Bodhi]

as far as the church creating the Bible? lol c'mon bro. u cant be serious. the original manuscripts are STILL here. what ur sayin is the followers existed before the leader basically. that sounds SO logical to me.

What I mean by that is that the church chose what Christian literature would be included and excluded from the finished product. The church created the Bible that you have today; you do not own the original writings. You have a translated, edited copy.

Paul "created" Christianity, based on the message of Jesus. It depends on who you appoint as the leader.

 

[alissowack]

and we DO know who the authors were, except in the book of Hebrews. and they WERE eyewitnesses.

List all 40+ authors

Is that really necessary? Would listing these authors make you go..."OK, I believe you"? Besides, would you want to know that if there are 40 plus authors that they are reliable or credible?

 

[Bodhi]

It is very necessary. It would surely help the Bible if we knew who the writers were and if they were credible or not. We ask that the authors of medical instruction at least have a reputation and education or else we can't take them seriously. I would like to know who wrote the bible and he claims to know. It is only right and logical that I ask him for details.

He says that there are 40+ authors of the Bible, then claims that he knows who all of the authors are and goes on to state that all of the authors were eye witnesses to what they wrote about. If he's going to make these claims, he needs to back them up, at least when talking to me. Otherwise, he need not have the audacity to tell me I don't know what I'm talking about.

 

[Bodhi]

The Mormons added onto the Bible. Where are their plagues?

 

[alissowack]

It is very necessary. It would surely help the Bible if we knew who the writers were and if they were credible or not. We ask that the authors of medical instruction at least have a reputation and education or else we can't take them seriously. I would like to know who wrote the bible and he claims to know. It is only right and logical that I ask him for details.

He says that there are 40+ authors of the Bible, then claims that he knows who all of the authors are and goes on to state that all of the authors were eye witnesses to what they wrote about. If he's going to make these claims, he needs to back them up, at least when talking to me. Otherwise, he need not have the audacity to tell me I don't know what I'm talking about.

Personally, I think you posed this challenge as an act of force and not a sincere concern for whether there are credible accounts of authors out there. This is not to say that you are the only guilty party in this. And what makes it "right" that he does present these authors in a world that doesn't suppose to know the difference between what is right or wrong?

 

[Bodhi]

He is free to practice his spirituality as he wishes, as well as everyone here. I am going to step out of this debate. Who am I to tell one how to view their own truths? I do not wish to create suffering and confusion. From this point, I will converse strictly in a friendly manner.

 

[Jack_Riches]

It is very necessary. It would surely help the Bible if we knew who the writers were and if they were credible or not. We ask that the authors of medical instruction at least have a reputation and education or else we can't take them seriously. I would like to know who wrote the bible and he claims to know. It is only right and logical that I ask him for details.

He says that there are 40+ authors of the Bible, then claims that he knows who all of the authors are and goes on to state that all of the authors were eye witnesses to what they wrote about. If he's going to make these claims, he needs to back them up, at least when talking to me. Otherwise, he need not have the audacity to tell me I don't know what I'm talking about.

once again. u are really misinformed. about A LOT. the fact that u said Paul created Christianity lmaoooo. do u even kno Paul's story? i doubt u do. and no one recorded him to say the same thing? whos him? Jesus?. Bro, do you selectively read? cuz it seems like u do. if i quote a Jay lyric, just a few bars, and someone else quoted another set of bars from the same song, and say YOU quoted the end of the song. is it right for someone who thinks like you to say Jay did not say those lyrics cuz all of our accounts werent the same? i thought so.

and ur other claims about missing books and what not..come on bro. there is absolutely NO credible evidence to support ur claim. you would have to refute what i said about the ORIGINAL MANUSCRIPTS WHICH ARE STILL HERE TODAY, to even THINK about claiming such idiotic tales about mis-translations and additions.

Forget just the mormons...u wanna kno what plague awaits anyone who dies without Christ? Hell.

 

[alissowack]

@west_brooklyn. Just because someone has a right to their beliefs doesn't mean they are "right" in what they believe...or that they have a respect for what they believe. The problem with people in religion sometimes is that they really don't respect what it is they are believing. They are just using religion for their own selfish motives. It is good to question people about what they believe, but it helps to get a better understanding on what it is they are believing and why they believe it...and not just going to trusted sites or authors or pick on those you know are "vulnerable". Go into enemy territory from time to time and at least see if there are respectable people out there that do represent what they believe well. There in people in my life I don't particularly agree with, but they command my respect.

 

[Bodhi]

Forget just the mormons...u wanna kno what plague awaits anyone who dies without Christ? Hell.

Ehh. I'm giving you an example of a group that has added to the Bible and have not yet received any "plagues" as far as I know. The Bible says that if anyone adds to the "prophecies" of this "scroll" or "book", which can be taken as the Book of Revelations (specifically the prophecy) and not the entire Bible. The writer(s) of Revelations did not know that a book of Christian literature would be put together and called "the Bible" so I doubt that the writer(s) meant that additions to "The Bible" would garner punishment. Either way, I don't believe it. Threatening a non theist with hell does not have any effect. A person would have to believe in hell to be scared of it.

and ur other claims about missing books and what not..come on bro. there is absolutely NO credible evidence to support ur claim.

http://gbgm-umc.org/umw/bible/outside.stm
http://www.icwseminary.org/lostbooks.htm

-----------

Dev. of Old Test. >>http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Development_of_the_Old_Testament_canon

Dev. of New Test. >>http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Development_of_the_New_Testament_canon

-----------

Or what about the book of Enoch? Is that in your copy of the Bible?
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Book_of_Enoch

and no one recorded him to say the same thing? whos him? Jesus?. Bro, do you selectively read? cuz it seems like u do. if i quote a Jay lyric, just a few bars, and someone else quoted another set of bars from the same song, and say YOU quoted the end of the song. is it right for someone who thinks like you to say Jay did not say those lyrics cuz all of our accounts werent the same? i thought so.

I'm pretty sure if someone very important today were to be killed, eye witnesses would be able to quote his last words and they would all agree as to what he/she said before he/she "gave up the ghost".

Luke wasn't even an eye witness:

1 Many have undertaken to draw up an account of the things that have been fulfilled[a] among us, 2 just as they were handed down to us by those who from the first were eyewitnesses and servants of the word. 3 With this in mind, since I myself have carefully investigated everything from the beginning, I too decided to write an orderly account for you, most excellent Theophilus, 4 so that you may know the certainty of the things you have been taught.

And to add onto what I said earlier (that we have enough evidence to suggest that Matthew copied from Mark), why did Matthew get his information from Mark if he was an eye witness to the events he describes?

Mark was not an eye witness either. He received his information from Peter.

No one knows who wrote these books. The authors were originally anonymous.

 

[Bodhi]

you would have to refute what i said about the ORIGINAL MANUSCRIPTS WHICH ARE STILL HERE TODAY, to even THINK about claiming such idiotic tales about mis-translations and additions.

Textual scholar Bart Ehrman writes: "It is true, of course, that the New Testament is abundantly attested in the manuscripts produced through the ages, but most of these manuscripts are many centuries removed from the originals, and none of them perfectly accurate. They all contain mistakes - altogether many thousands of mistakes. It is not an easy task to reconstruct the original words of the New Testament...."[2]

Every year, several New Testament manuscripts handwritten in the original Greek format are discovered. The latest substantial find was in 2008, when 47 new manuscripts were discovered in Albania; at least 17 of them unknown to Western scholars.[5] When comparing one manuscript to another, with the exception of the smallest fragments, no two copies agree completely throughout. There has been an estimate of 400,000 variations among all these manuscripts (from the 2nd to 15th century) which is more than there are words in the New Testament. This is less significant than may appear since it is a comparison across linguistic boundaries. More important estimates focus on comparing texts within languages. Those variations are considerably fewer. The vast majority of these are accidental errors made by scribes, and are easily identified as such: an omitted word, a duplicate line, a misspelling, a rearrangement of words. Some variations involve apparently intentional changes, which often make more difficult a determination of whether they were corrections from better exemplars, harmonizations between readings, or ideologically motivated.[6] Palaeography is the study of ancient writing, and textual criticism is the study of manuscripts in order to reconstruct a probable original text.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Biblical_manuscript

the fact that u said Paul created Christianity lmaoooo. do u even kno Paul's story? i doubt u do.

Jesus preached Judaism. Christianity did not come until after Jesus' death; Paul preached "Christianity", a faith based on the life and teachings of Jesus "the Christ". Jesus never once mentioned "Christianity". Paul had never met Jesus, btw. You can read more about that here:http://www.sullivan-county.com/news/paul/paul.htm

 

[Bodhi]

@west_brooklyn. Just because someone has a right to their beliefs doesn't mean they are "right" in what they believe...or that they have a respect for what they believe. The problem with people in religion sometimes is that they really don't respect what it is they are believing. They are just using religion for their own selfish motives. It is good to question people about what they believe, but it helps to get a better understanding on what it is they are believing and why they believe it...and not just going to trusted sites or authors or pick on those you know are "vulnerable". Go into enemy territory from time to time and at least see if there are respectable people out there that do represent what they believe well. There in people in my life I don't particularly agree with, but they command my respect.

I see where you are coming from. Very well. I will continue the debate

 

[supaman4321]

It's pretty interesting. Jesus never referred to himself as being God or the unique son of God or God in the flesh. Other people promoted that mostly, most notably Paul, who didn't even actually know Jesus. And the only Gospel that really goes out of it's way to portray Jesus as divine was John, and that particular book was the last of the Gospels written and was clearly in response to the debate over whether Jesus was divine or not.

do you even know what you are talking about?

John 10

30 I and the Father are one.”

32 but Jesus said to them, “I have shown you many good works from the Father. For which of these do you stone me?”

33 “We are not stoning you for any good work,” they replied, “but for blasphemy, because you, a mere man, claim to be God.”

34 Jesus answered them, “Is it not written in your Law, ‘I have said you are “gods”’[d]? 35 If he called them ‘gods,’ to whom the word of God came—and Scripture cannot be set aside— 36 what about the one whom the Father set apart as his very own and sent into the world? Why then do you accuse me of blasphemy because I said, ‘I am God’s Son’? 37 Do not believe me unless I do the works of my Father. 38 But if I do them, even though you do not believe me, believe the works, that you may know and understand that the Father is in me, and I in the Father.”

How can they be one in the same when the VERY LINE BEFORE THAT he says my Father is Greater than all, he is of course included in that all so why are you trying to make this man out to be schizophrenic?

29 "My Father, who has given them to me, is greater than all; no one can snatch them out of my Father’s hand."

he never called himself God or the exclusive son of God like the brother said; do YOU know what you're talking about?

 

[Bodhi]

edited posts