BLACK FOLKS: IF THE G'MENT OFFERED YOU 1MILL TO LEAVE AMERICA TO GO TO AFRICA AND NEVER COME BACK

[Stiff]

People really want to talk "Black-Excellence" but when they get offered money to leave the country, abandon the culture that has derived from their Diasporic ancestors and just go blend in with any African people that they have no cultural ties to after 400 + years of separation, they say "Bet, let's go"

All while saying "American Blacks aren't doing shit anyway". If you take the money and leave cool. But don't try to claim it's on some Black empowerment.

Question: When you go back to Africa what tribe will you be apart of? What will be your ethnicity? You've come up with a western train-of-thought and are trying to take that and project it on to African natives, who mostly don't have that train-of-thought.

Throw some money at a bunch of Yorubas from Nigeria and ask them to pack up and leave their lands and never come back and go all the way down to Namibia. You think they're going to say "it's all good they're all Black like us, no problem let's go".

African-American is just as much of an ethnicity as Yoruba. We are all one race. We should all be united. We should respect the cultures and accomplishments of EVERY ethnicity that falls under the umbrella of the Black race. So don't shit on one ethnicity while trying to say it's in the name of Black Empowerment. It doesn't work like that.

 

[Stiff]

Of course you can trace the roots of hip-hop back to Africa. You can trace alot of our culture back to Africa...we did in fact come from Africa. No denying that.

America is home to 30,000 Black millionaires out of 42 million total black people. The entire continent of Africa has 1.6 billion people and only 100,000 millionaires (even including non-black Arabs, and whites that moved to Africa). If you really think Black people are in control of the majority of Africa I suggest you do some research. The same war that exists on Black people in U.S. exists in Africa, don't be delusional.

You don't think exploitation exists in Africa at the hands of Europeans and now Chinese on an extremely large scale? Do some research on who's getting rich off of the resources of Africa. Also, please don't compare what happened in Ferguson to some of the violence that happens in Africa to Africans. Alot of these new nations are still dealing with problems that were created during the colonialism era. Of course that's not the entire continent but I don't see what you're getting at when you bring up Ferguson.

What is this "move the goal post" style of posting you're using? Stay in the context of what this thread is about.

Are you forgetting that we start with a million US dollars on top of our current net worth before we make the trip? So the millionaire thing doesn't mean anything in the context of this thread, nor does being a millionaire mean the same thing in certain countries in Africa vs. the US, given important factors like the cost of living and currency conversion.

Not to mention, what does how many millionaire stats have to do with how well a nation is doing as a people? If everyone becomes a millionaire, the market adjusts, prices shoot up, purchasing power shoots down.

... My post was comparing the 2 situations. No one said exploitation didn't exist, I said there is a war on black people in the US and we're not even the majority, so we are at a lost no matter which way we try to move. In comparison to Africa and certain countries in Africa, where we are by far the majority.

The Ferguson thing was to show the blatant racism and how they have no problem escalating any issue when it comes to us and only us. It supports my war on black people statement. It has nothing to do with violence in certain areas in Africa, because once again, you can choose which country, city, neighborhood you live in. No one said you have to live in a war driven village, going through civil war.

Everything in my post was a direct response to each point you made.I didn't "move any goal posts". I brought up millionaires to counter where you said "So yeah, I don't see how the U.S is any better for us than Africa. Africa has a long list of black presidents or people in power, plenty of opportunity business-wise, limitless potential, and black is the norm. "

Also this Africa that you dream of where everybody is united and there's one Black African race working for the greater good of all Black people isn't what the situation is. Each African nation is home to various ethnic groups and tribes that are in many cases working to better their own situation. There's discrimination and conflicts that happen within the Black race in Africa. There's examples of systematic oppression that Blacks impose on other Blacks. My point is that everything you're running from by leaving America, you can find examples of over there. So I'm saying if that's why you're leaving then it's not a good reason. Africa isn't hell on earth at all--but it has its share of challenges as well.

I've heard Ghana is a great place though so :shrug:

My main issue was with people saying that Blacks didn't help build this country or that we haven't built anything worthwhile here. Hence I point out the amount of Black millionaires, which per capita is way more than the amount of millionaires in Africa. You accused me of looking down on Blacks, while in the same post you deny the existence of a distinct African-American culture. It seems to me you're looking down on Blacks in America while bigging up those in Africa. I'm not looking down on anybody, just don't shit on what we've accomplished as a people in this nation. Our ancestors deserve better. [/color=red]

Exactly.

If one holds such a perspective, you're striving to strip away the only fruits of our ancestors' oppression.

what exactly has been this fruit?? African-Americans are still at the bottom where is the path up? when all you have is money and no wealth after hundreds of years of work. you still remain a resource to make other people rich.

Well you’re now soliciting an entirely different argument. A debate about the socioeconomic progression of African-Americans is entirely different from an argument suggesting that the ancestors of African-Americans didn’t contribute at all to building America.

In essence, you’ve went from arguing that past blacks didn’t give a single contribution during the formation of America, to arguing that current blacks aren’t progressing as fast as you’d like them to.

Even if I were to agree with your cynical outlook (admittedly you've raise some reasonable issues) toward our progression.

Our current socioeconomic progression (or lack thereof) has no relevance to the quantifiable fact that our ancestors helped built this nation and impacted the fabric of American society.

i would say this african americans impacted society but i would not go so far to say you built america and actually the formation of america was done by white people. they wrote the bill of rights and the other documents that formed the government.

We both know that the US wasn't created in a vacuum. It didn't just magically poof out of thin air after a piece of paper was signed with a quill pen dipped in ink during the late 1700s.

Before the implementation of the US constitution, the actual development of the thirteen colonies was critically influenced by African slaves and after the implementation of the US constitution they proceeded to play a leading role in precipitating the industrialization of America - which ushered us into the modern era of being a technologically advanced global power.

It honestly bafflrs my mind that you guys love the us this much.

It's not about our love for the US.

Jono and Stiff conveyed it perfectly in their posts. It's simply intellectually dishonest to simplify this topic's hypothetical by glossing over the intricate details and prematurely attaching oneself to the "grass is always greener on the other side" outlook.

question: whats your opinion on Israel,their right of return law, and those that take advantage of that?

to all the fuck yeah murica folks

@JerryfromJerz‌ Don't even get me started on this. I don't personally believe that the modern nation of Israel or modern Jews have much genetical connection to the ancient Israelites. But that's a whole different thread.

 

[Stiff]

im looking for data

If you really want to take it there.. give me an example of any Black African nation and we can compare the living conditions by the numbers to Blacks in America

You guy's argument has now devolved to the denial of existence of Black progress or excellence in America. Amazing.

They make it seem that like we as African Americans just sat here and did not try to improve our conditions at all in the united states.If it wasn't for African Americans for civil rights a lot of foreign blacks would have came here and be drinking from the same "colored" water fountains ,getting lynched, chased by kkk members ,sitting on the back of the bus ,not having the right to vote etc.

So I find it so disrespectful when they make it seem we haven't accomplished anything since we got over here on those slave ships hundreds of years ago until now.

Yeah...thats the insecurity inside of them. They are clowns who only want to see things one way in order to boost their own fragile view of themselves.

They know about cointelpro

They know that the Suprwme Court passed every law possible to keep us fucked up.

They know about white flight and the desolation of the black school system in america.

They know about the welfare state and how that along with black men being fucked up from vietnam and shipped off to jail at staggering ratea fucked up the black family unit in America.

They know all of this but it feels better to point a finger at us and blame us for shit that was perpetrated against us.

That's why most of us are lime fuck them.

With that being said...I know who my real enemy is and with that kind if money I'm moving back to

And after all that shit u listed, and mind u, u have 95% more to go, alot of u niggas still wanna still stay in america.

Where on Africa do you plan to flee to where there isn't a long way to go to get where it ought to be? Be specific. @D0wn‌

 

[rip.dilla]

People always relocate to other countries and become citizens of their new country every day b.. .

The US is a prime example of mass migration from different nationalities around the world. (it was originally a land stripped of its original inhabitants)

Why should learning a new language and culture be a problem?

 

[count remy]

People always relocate to other countries and become citizens of their new country every day b.. .

The US is a prime example of mass migration from different nationalities around the world. (it was originally a land stripped of its original inhabitants)

Why should learning a new language and culture be a problem?

agree with this. Here's an article from last month about the number of Americans renouncing their citizenship is at an all time high.

Spoiler

Many Americans Renounce Citizenship, Hitting New Record

It may seem like a drop in the bucket, especially when droves want to immigrate to America. Still, the newly published names of individuals who renounced their U.S. citizenship or terminated long-term U.S. residency is up, with 576 for the quarter and 1,577 so far this year. The growing trend is a sad one, with record numbers of Americans renouncing their U.S. citizenship.

For all the immigrant arrivals, the trickle the other direction is becoming more pronounced. The tally was 2,999 for all of 2013, a 221% increase over the 932 who left in 2012. The Treasury Department is required to publish a quarterly list, a kind of public outing putting Americans on notice of who relinquished their rights. Consular expatriations, where people don’t file exit tax forms with the IRS, are apparently not counted.

Indeed, the Treasury Department’s published list states explicitly this is just those about whom the Secretary of the Treasury has data. It means these numbers are under-stated, some say considerably. The presence or absence of tax motivation used to impact how one would be taxed on departing the U.S. Today, it is no longer relevant why someone expatriates.

The law was changed in 2004, so tax consequences do not hinge on why one leaves. But that could change. After Facebook co-founder Eduardo Saverin departed permanently for Singapore with his IPO riches, there was an angry backlash. Mr. Saverin’s fly-away prompted such outrage that Senators Chuck Schumer and Bob Casey introduced a bill to double the exit tax to 30% for anyone leaving the U.S. for tax reasons.

(AP Photo/J. Scott Applewhite, File)

Most expatriations are motivated primarily by factors such as family and convenience. Complex or costly taxes can sway a decision but are often only one factor. Many now find America’s global income tax compliance and disclosure laws inconvenient or even oppressive.

For U.S. persons living and working in foreign countries, it is almost a given that they must report and pay tax where they live. But they must also continue to file taxes in the U.S. based on their worldwide income. Claiming foreign tax credit on one’s U.S. returns generally does not eliminate all double taxes.

U.S. taxes are complex, and enforcement fears are palpable. Moreover, the annual foreign bank account reports known as FBARs carry civil and even criminal penalties. Civil penalties alone can quickly consume the balance of an account. And then there is FATCA, which requires filing an annual Form 8938 once foreign assets reach a threshold.

Yet the real teeth of FATCA is reporting and disclosure by foreign banks, the systematic turning over of American names by foreign banks all over the world. Even Russia and China have signed on, as have over 70 countries. Many foreign banks simply do not want American account holders, period.

To leave America you generally must prove 5 years of U.S. tax compliance. If you have a net worth greater than $2 million or average annual net income tax for the 5 previous years of $155,000 or more (that’s tax, not income), you pay an exit tax. It is a capital gain tax as if you sold your property when you left. At least there’s an exemption of $680,000. Long-term residents giving up a Green Card can be required to pay the tax too. See High Cost To Go Green: Giving Up A Green Card.

A decision to expatriate should never be taken lightly. Taxes or not, it can be a big step. And around the world, more people are talking about taking it.
http://www.forbes.com/sites/robertw...cans-renounce-citizenship-hitting-new-record/

and that's not even what TS said. America isn't the end all be all. My brother hasn't lived state side since 1992. The job he has is with an american company that he can only hold as an american citizen. I don't know when this conversation turned into the move being a political statement but for $1 million, smh. Asians come from farther away with nothing but hope and desire.

 

[Stiff]

People always relocate to other countries and become citizens of their new country every day b.. .

The US is a prime example of mass migration from different nationalities around the world. (it was originally a land stripped of its original inhabitants)

Why should learning a new language and culture be a problem?

None at all. If people wish to learn a new language and culture of our African brothers that's not a bad thing at all. My main issue is with this notion that the culture of Black Ameicans is somehow inferior to the cultures of the people of native-born Africans. All of our cultures and histories should be respected equally.

We got people in here arguing that Blacks in America haven't progressed, that Blacks in America didn't contribute to the prosperity of America and that Blacks in America have no future. Somebody even questioned the very existence of a Black American culture. That's what I'm taking exception to. That's White supremacist rhetoric no matter where it comes from and it's just not true. Acting as if Blacks haven't built ANYTHING in America is crazy to me.

 

[Masterfultech]

People always relocate to other countries and become citizens of their new country every day b.. .

The US is a prime example of mass migration from different nationalities around the world. (it was originally a land stripped of its original inhabitants)

Why should learning a new language and culture be a problem?

None at all. If people wish to learn a new language and culture of our African brothers that's not a bad thing at all. My main issue is with this notion that the culture of Black Ameicans is somehow inferior to the cultures of the people of native-born Africans. All of our cultures and histories should be respected equally.

We got people in here arguing that Blacks in America haven't progressed, that Blacks in America didn't contribute to the prosperity of America and that Blacks in America have no future. Somebody even questioned the very existence of a Black American culture. That's what I'm taking exception to. That's White supremacist rhetoric no matter where it comes from and it's just not true. Acting as if Blacks haven't built ANYTHING in America is crazy to me.

@Stiff I agree with what you said but personally what do you think when you see the census and the future of us in America. People often talk of the fate of Latin American blacks soon coming for us.

 

[Stiff]

People always relocate to other countries and become citizens of their new country every day b.. .

The US is a prime example of mass migration from different nationalities around the world. (it was originally a land stripped of its original inhabitants)

Why should learning a new language and culture be a problem?

None at all. If people wish to learn a new language and culture of our African brothers that's not a bad thing at all. My main issue is with this notion that the culture of Black Ameicans is somehow inferior to the cultures of the people of native-born Africans. All of our cultures and histories should be respected equally.

We got people in here arguing that Blacks in America haven't progressed, that Blacks in America didn't contribute to the prosperity of America and that Blacks in America have no future. Somebody even questioned the very existence of a Black American culture. That's what I'm taking exception to. That's White supremacist rhetoric no matter where it comes from and it's just not true. Acting as if Blacks haven't built ANYTHING in America is crazy to me.

@Stiff I agree with what you said but personally what do you think when you see the census and the future of us in America. People often talk of the fate of Latin American blacks soon coming for us.

I don't think more Brown people in the country is automatically bad for Black people, because all that does is weaken the power of white supremacy. I just don't see Brown people coming in and realistically replacing Whites as oppressors. I'd have to see the situation of specific countries in Latin America as examples to speak directly to that. Most hispanics in America have the same political and economic interests as most Blacks and tend to lean liberal like Blacks(except Cubans if I'm not mistaken).

Also if we look at how much power Jewish people have in this country you can see how the number of people don't necessarily have to be indicative to the amount of power a group has. Time will tell ultimately but I don't think Blacks should be as alarmed as Whites about the influx of of Brown people because it's not OUR power structure that's being threatened.

 

[zombie]

People always relocate to other countries and become citizens of their new country every day b.. .

The US is a prime example of mass migration from different nationalities around the world. (it was originally a land stripped of its original inhabitants)

Why should learning a new language and culture be a problem?

None at all. If people wish to learn a new language and culture of our African brothers that's not a bad thing at all. My main issue is with this notion that the culture of Black Ameicans is somehow inferior to the cultures of the people of native-born Africans. All of our cultures and histories should be respected equally.

We got people in here arguing that Blacks in America haven't progressed, that Blacks in America didn't contribute to the prosperity of America and that Blacks in America have no future. Somebody even questioned the very existence of a Black American culture. That's what I'm taking exception to. That's White supremacist rhetoric no matter where it comes from and it's just not true. Acting as if Blacks haven't built ANYTHING in America is crazy to me.

@ the bolded literally nobody said that, you are being emotional and sensitive no one said that you have not progressed just that whatever progress you make will never be enough. HOW long are african americans going to march and pray and even riot before they realize they african americans need to start re-evaulating how they feel about america. Black americans have created alot and most of it benefits other ethnic groups more than it does them.

you created things but not america.

 

[zombie]

People always relocate to other countries and become citizens of their new country every day b.. .

The US is a prime example of mass migration from different nationalities around the world. (it was originally a land stripped of its original inhabitants)

Why should learning a new language and culture be a problem?

None at all. If people wish to learn a new language and culture of our African brothers that's not a bad thing at all. My main issue is with this notion that the culture of Black Ameicans is somehow inferior to the cultures of the people of native-born Africans. All of our cultures and histories should be respected equally.

We got people in here arguing that Blacks in America haven't progressed, that Blacks in America didn't contribute to the prosperity of America and that Blacks in America have no future. Somebody even questioned the very existence of a Black American culture. That's what I'm taking exception to. That's White supremacist rhetoric no matter where it comes from and it's just not true. Acting as if Blacks haven't built ANYTHING in America is crazy to me.

@Stiff I agree with what you said but personally what do you think when you see the census and the future of us in America. People often talk of the fate of Latin American blacks soon coming for us.

I don't think more Brown people in the country is automatically bad for Black people, because all that does is weaken the power of white supremacy. I just don't see Brown people coming in and realistically replacing Whites as oppressors. I'd have to see the situation of specific countries in Latin America as examples to speak directly to that. Most hispanics in America have the same political and economic interests as most Blacks and tend to lean liberal like Blacks(except Cubans if I'm not mistaken).

Also if we look at how much power Jewish people have in this country you can see how the number of people don't necessarily have to be indicative to the amount of power a group has. Time will tell ultimately but I don't think Blacks should be as alarmed as Whites about the influx of of Brown people because it's not OUR power structure that's being threatened.

Do you travel?? have you been to south and especially central america?? There are black/brown white supremacist latinos share interest with us for now that can and will change especially with certain hispanic nationalities they grow up looking down on us at home they won't start loving us here. jews have unity and economic self reliance the later is a thing black america seems to have traded for integration.

in capitalism you don't have a friend it's your group vs the others and any alliance is temporary.

 

[Stiff]

question: whats your opinion on Israel,their right of return law, and those that take advantage of that?

That question really isn't relevant lol...

Well without going too much in-depth about it (since it’s off topic) I’ll just admit I have a fairly cynical view of Israel overall and in regards to their law of return, its agenda-driven. Although to be fair if you delve deep enough into most diaspora politics, you’ll eventually discover some internal self-serving forces at play.

You cannot give slaves the credit for the industrialization of america, true it was the end of slavery that really created the impetus for the industrialization of the south but really it was coming anyway and slaves had no choice in the matter as is often the case blacks were non-willing factors in the direction america takes.

and america became a global power after ww2 and blacks were not allowed to play a major role in it.

the 13 colonies were a creation of england not african slaves

Ah, I see once again this is circling back to the incorrect semantic argument you put forth against stiff regarding what it means to “contribute”. There aren't any parts of the definitions that denote the 'willingness' of a contributor.

By definition, one can contribute to something even if it’s against their will or not done on purpose. If a starved, homeless man holds you at gun point, robs you and uses your money to buy food & water, regardless of whether you wanted to or not, you contributed to his survival.

Moreover, I didn't give slaves sole credit for the industrialization of America, but merely stated they were a salient factor – which is a historically documented, indisputable fact. Everyone knows a multitude of factors lead to the industrialization of America. The slaves had a direct and indirect influence on the industrialization, urbanization and transportation infrastructure of the US.

You’re incorrect about when the US became a global power. The US became a global power after WW1. By 1920, America’s economic proficiency was among the world’s best.

I agree with you about the birth of the colonies. However, that self-evident factoid doesn't disapprove or even address my quantifiable assertion that the actually development of the colonies (to the country they eventually transformed into) were critically influenced by African slaves, and it’s documented that roughly 90% of Colonial American population livelihood revolved around agriculture. We've obviously reached a point in this discussion where trivializing our ancestor’s cultivation of cash crops, is a pointless exercise on your part - empirical evidence is simply not in your favor.

I ANSWERED THIS ALREADY maybe you missed it but your given meaning starts off with by saying a contribution is "A GIFT"

gift/gift/

noun

a thing given willingly to someone without payment; a present.

a natural ability or talent.

verb

give (something) as a gift, especially formally or as a donation or bequest.

so if a contribution is a gift it has to be willingly given and that's not a matter of semantics, it's what the word actually means

non willling actors and things with no choice cannot contribute you cannot extort me and claim i contributed to you. the mafia does not get contributions.

the 13 colonies used slave labor key word being used once again you might as well say that it was the farm animals and crops that deserve the props for their survival and development into america why not give the same respect to the irish that you give to the african slaves in the 13 colonies.

you believe that the slave that was used like a tractor deserves the props for what he was forced to do, i do not it is irelevlent how much money they made for america or how much capital they created. because they had no choice.

ok alright you can say america became a global power after ww1 but that depends on what you consider a global power an argument can be made that america became one far before that. one thing is sure it was the winning of ww2 that really made the usa what it if today in terms of it's global influence.

Lol so you're just going to highlight the first entry of the definition, which supports your argument but completely ignore the second entry which shuts it down

con·trib·ute

verb \kən-ˈtri-byət, -(ˌ)byüt also & especially before -ed or -ing -ˈtri-bət; chiefly British also ˈkän-trə-ˌbyüt\

: to give (something, such as money, goods, or time) to help a person, group, cause, or organization

: to help to cause something to happen

: to write (something, such as a story, poem, or essay) for a magazine

From the nation's founding up until the end of the Civil War, the entire South was a slave-based economy.

Plantation-grown cotton was the foundation of the antebellum southern economy.

But the American financial and shipping industries were also dependent on slave-produced cotton. So was the British textile industry

Source

Those slaves were pretty much entirely African descent. That means the South DEPENDED on the labor of those Africans to maintain and grow its economy, whether they were whistling as they worked or not is completely irrelevant.

And stop comparing the recognition owed to inanimate objects to that of human beings. Just because that's the belief that white slaveowners had at the time doesn't mean it's a respectable belief to hold as a Black Man in 2014.

@Zombie

 

[zombie]

People really want to talk "Black-Excellence" but when they get offered money to leave the country, abandon the culture that has derived from their Diasporic ancestors and just go blend in with any African people that they have no cultural ties to after 400 + years of separation, they say "Bet, let's go"

All while saying "American Blacks aren't doing shit anyway". If you take the money and leave cool. But don't try to claim it's on some Black empowerment.

Question: When you go back to Africa what tribe will you be apart of? What will be your ethnicity? You've come up with a western train-of-thought and are trying to take that and project it on to African natives, who mostly don't have that train-of-thought.

Throw some money at a bunch of Yorubas from Nigeria and ask them to pack up and leave their lands and never come back and go all the way down to Namibia. You think they're going to say "it's all good they're all Black like us, no problem let's go".

African-American is just as much of an ethnicity as Yoruba. We are all one race. We should all be united. We should respect the cultures and accomplishments of EVERY ethnicity that falls under the umbrella of the Black race. So don't shit on one ethnicity while trying to say it's in the name of Black Empowerment. It doesn't work like that.

Leaving the nation does not mean leaving the culture, you are not tied to america you don't have to be a slave to america. I left jamaica, i am still a jamaican. if you leave america you will still be african american, you don't have to join any tribe just be yourself. namibia is less developed than nigeria so an intelligent yoruba won't go, but give him one million and he just might nigerians are hustlers like that.

you never been to africa you don't know these people at all, you have to be respectful but be yourself if you go over there trying to be more african than them they are going to laugh at you. the difference between african american and most africans in all the nations i've been to don't amount to much really. especially amongst the younger generation they have actually begin to slowly think like us in there own way that is what i have observed

 

[zombie]

question: whats your opinion on Israel,their right of return law, and those that take advantage of that?

That question really isn't relevant lol...

Well without going too much in-depth about it (since it’s off topic) I’ll just admit I have a fairly cynical view of Israel overall and in regards to their law of return, its agenda-driven. Although to be fair if you delve deep enough into most diaspora politics, you’ll eventually discover some internal self-serving forces at play.

You cannot give slaves the credit for the industrialization of america, true it was the end of slavery that really created the impetus for the industrialization of the south but really it was coming anyway and slaves had no choice in the matter as is often the case blacks were non-willing factors in the direction america takes.

and america became a global power after ww2 and blacks were not allowed to play a major role in it.

the 13 colonies were a creation of england not african slaves

Ah, I see once again this is circling back to the incorrect semantic argument you put forth against stiff regarding what it means to “contribute”. There aren't any parts of the definitions that denote the 'willingness' of a contributor.

By definition, one can contribute to something even if it’s against their will or not done on purpose. If a starved, homeless man holds you at gun point, robs you and uses your money to buy food & water, regardless of whether you wanted to or not, you contributed to his survival.

Moreover, I didn't give slaves sole credit for the industrialization of America, but merely stated they were a salient factor – which is a historically documented, indisputable fact. Everyone knows a multitude of factors lead to the industrialization of America. The slaves had a direct and indirect influence on the industrialization, urbanization and transportation infrastructure of the US.

You’re incorrect about when the US became a global power. The US became a global power after WW1. By 1920, America’s economic proficiency was among the world’s best.

I agree with you about the birth of the colonies. However, that self-evident factoid doesn't disapprove or even address my quantifiable assertion that the actually development of the colonies (to the country they eventually transformed into) were critically influenced by African slaves, and it’s documented that roughly 90% of Colonial American population livelihood revolved around agriculture. We've obviously reached a point in this discussion where trivializing our ancestor’s cultivation of cash crops, is a pointless exercise on your part - empirical evidence is simply not in your favor.

I ANSWERED THIS ALREADY maybe you missed it but your given meaning starts off with by saying a contribution is "A GIFT"

gift/gift/

noun

a thing given willingly to someone without payment; a present.

a natural ability or talent.

verb

give (something) as a gift, especially formally or as a donation or bequest.

so if a contribution is a gift it has to be willingly given and that's not a matter of semantics, it's what the word actually means

non willling actors and things with no choice cannot contribute you cannot extort me and claim i contributed to you. the mafia does not get contributions.

the 13 colonies used slave labor key word being used once again you might as well say that it was the farm animals and crops that deserve the props for their survival and development into america why not give the same respect to the irish that you give to the african slaves in the 13 colonies.

you believe that the slave that was used like a tractor deserves the props for what he was forced to do, i do not it is irelevlent how much money they made for america or how much capital they created. because they had no choice.

ok alright you can say america became a global power after ww1 but that depends on what you consider a global power an argument can be made that america became one far before that. one thing is sure it was the winning of ww2 that really made the usa what it if today in terms of it's global influence.

Lol so you're just going to highlight the first entry of the definition, which supports your argument but completely ignore the second entry which shuts it down

con·trib·ute

verb \kən-ˈtri-byət, -(ˌ)byüt also & especially before -ed or -ing -ˈtri-bət; chiefly British also ˈkän-trə-ˌbyüt\

: to give (something, such as money, goods, or time) to help a person, group, cause, or organization

: to help to cause something to happen

: to write (something, such as a story, poem, or essay) for a magazine

From the nation's founding up until the end of the Civil War, the entire South was a slave-based economy.

Plantation-grown cotton was the foundation of the antebellum southern economy.

But the American financial and shipping industries were also dependent on slave-produced cotton. So was the British textile industry

Source

Those slaves were pretty much entirely African descent. That means the South DEPENDED on the labor of those Africans to maintain and grow its economy, whether they were whistling as they worked or not is completely irrelevant.

And stop comparing the recognition owed to inanimate objects to that of human beings. Just because that's the belief that white slaveowners had at the time doesn't mean it's a respectable belief to hold as a Black Man in 2014.

@Zombie

Now you want to argue words?? ok. but all these words connote willful action not being forced

help/help/

verb

make it easier for (someone) to do something by offering one's services or resources.

serve someone with (food or drink).

you cannot categorize someone doing something for you as "help" if you are forcing them to to do it and the slaves having no self determination might as well have been inanimate objects, right or wrong has nothing to do with the equation my analysis is an emotionless one . the year we are in is unimportant , the mindsets of white people now or then is unimportant. what actually happened is important

and what happened is they (whites) used blacks to build the economy much the same way farmers use cows except we were much more profitable cows.

 

[Masterfultech]

People always relocate to other countries and become citizens of their new country every day b.. .

The US is a prime example of mass migration from different nationalities around the world. (it was originally a land stripped of its original inhabitants)

Why should learning a new language and culture be a problem?

None at all. If people wish to learn a new language and culture of our African brothers that's not a bad thing at all. My main issue is with this notion that the culture of Black Ameicans is somehow inferior to the cultures of the people of native-born Africans. All of our cultures and histories should be respected equally.

We got people in here arguing that Blacks in America haven't progressed, that Blacks in America didn't contribute to the prosperity of America and that Blacks in America have no future. Somebody even questioned the very existence of a Black American culture. That's what I'm taking exception to. That's White supremacist rhetoric no matter where it comes from and it's just not true. Acting as if Blacks haven't built ANYTHING in America is crazy to me.

@Stiff I agree with what you said but personally what do you think when you see the census and the future of us in America. People often talk of the fate of Latin American blacks soon coming for us.

I don't think more Brown people in the country is automatically bad for Black people, because all that does is weaken the power of white supremacy. I just don't see Brown people coming in and realistically replacing Whites as oppressors. I'd have to see the situation of specific countries in Latin America as examples to speak directly to that. Most hispanics in America have the same political and economic interests as most Blacks and tend to lean liberal like Blacks(except Cubans if I'm not mistaken).

Also if we look at how much power Jewish people have in this country you can see how the number of people don't necessarily have to be indicative to the amount of power a group has. Time will tell ultimately but I don't think Blacks should be as alarmed as Whites about the influx of of Brown people because it's not OUR power structure that's being threatened.

Actually as more Mestizo come in certain jobs are being deferred to them rather than blacks. (There was actually a thread about it not to long ago (http://community.allhiphop.com/disc...ic-opportunities-for-african-americans#latest ). Also I like to add that mestizo aren't the only ones crossing over as Hispanic/Latino whites are coming too and this all adds to the white supremacist power structure because their own white supremacist power structure. And I reference Latin American blacks because of "the casta" if you have any idea about it and the new socio-economic divides it can bring for blacks.

 

[Stiff]

People really want to talk "Black-Excellence" but when they get offered money to leave the country, abandon the culture that has derived from their Diasporic ancestors and just go blend in with any African people that they have no cultural ties to after 400 + years of separation, they say "Bet, let's go"

All while saying "American Blacks aren't doing shit anyway". If you take the money and leave cool. But don't try to claim it's on some Black empowerment.

Question: When you go back to Africa what tribe will you be apart of? What will be your ethnicity? You've come up with a western train-of-thought and are trying to take that and project it on to African natives, who mostly don't have that train-of-thought.

Throw some money at a bunch of Yorubas from Nigeria and ask them to pack up and leave their lands and never come back and go all the way down to Namibia. You think they're going to say "it's all good they're all Black like us, no problem let's go".

African-American is just as much of an ethnicity as Yoruba. We are all one race. We should all be united. We should respect the cultures and accomplishments of EVERY ethnicity that falls under the umbrella of the Black race. So don't shit on one ethnicity while trying to say it's in the name of Black Empowerment. It doesn't work like that.

Leaving the nation does not mean leaving the culture, you are not tied to america you don't have to be a slave to america. I left jamaica, i am still a jamaican. if you leave america you will still be african american, you don't have to join any tribe just be yourself. namibia is less developed than nigeria so an intelligent yoruba won't go, but give him one million and he just might nigerians are hustlers like that.

you never been to africa you don't know these people at all, you have to be respectful but be yourself if you go over there trying to be more african than them they are going to laugh at you. the difference between african american and most africans in all the nations i've been to don't amount to much really. especially amongst the younger generation they have actually begin to slowly think like us in there own way that is what i have observed

And every single nation in Africa is less developed than The United States and is less developed than the people of Black America if it were its own country. So by your own words and logic an intelligent Black American wouldn't go. Checkmate I rest my case

 

[zombie]

People really want to talk "Black-Excellence" but when they get offered money to leave the country, abandon the culture that has derived from their Diasporic ancestors and just go blend in with any African people that they have no cultural ties to after 400 + years of separation, they say "Bet, let's go"

All while saying "American Blacks aren't doing shit anyway". If you take the money and leave cool. But don't try to claim it's on some Black empowerment.

Question: When you go back to Africa what tribe will you be apart of? What will be your ethnicity? You've come up with a western train-of-thought and are trying to take that and project it on to African natives, who mostly don't have that train-of-thought.

Throw some money at a bunch of Yorubas from Nigeria and ask them to pack up and leave their lands and never come back and go all the way down to Namibia. You think they're going to say "it's all good they're all Black like us, no problem let's go".

African-American is just as much of an ethnicity as Yoruba. We are all one race. We should all be united. We should respect the cultures and accomplishments of EVERY ethnicity that falls under the umbrella of the Black race. So don't shit on one ethnicity while trying to say it's in the name of Black Empowerment. It doesn't work like that.

Leaving the nation does not mean leaving the culture, you are not tied to america you don't have to be a slave to america. I left jamaica, i am still a jamaican. if you leave america you will still be african american, you don't have to join any tribe just be yourself. namibia is less developed than nigeria so an intelligent yoruba won't go, but give him one million and he just might nigerians are hustlers like that.

you never been to africa you don't know these people at all, you have to be respectful but be yourself if you go over there trying to be more african than them they are going to laugh at you. the difference between african american and most africans in all the nations i've been to don't amount to much really. especially amongst the younger generation they have actually begin to slowly think like us in there own way that is what i have observed

And every single nation in Africa is less developed than The United States and is less developed than the people of Black America if it were its own country. So by your own words and logic an intelligent Black American wouldn't go. Checkmate I rest my case

the difference is there is no nation called black america there is just america the only thing you have proven in this thread is that black americans are still slave minded you love a nation that shits on you and will continue to do so.

in 50 years your children will be 3rd class citizens

 

[zombie]

african americans are rich but you are not more developed than africans because your riches come from other people you don't own shit and the money you make working for other races you quickly give right back to them. but i guess if that's your idea of development you are right

 

[Shuffington]

Y'all Gonna argue this one till the death i see.

Personally would be scared for blacks world wide if there was a government sponsored program to give

27-39 million Blacks in America 1 million dollars each ! To move ONLY to an African country. ONLY. Do you know how much money that is!?

It would probably be some covert slave/debt to sell to China since they own most of it, and they're so deep in Africa

as far as investment goes.

This shit wouldn't be pretty… cause nothing is that simple.

I guess for a thread premise thats been done a few times… its fun to discuss.

Carry on

 

[zombie]

Y'all Gonna argue this one till the death i see.

Personally would be scared for blacks world wide if there was a government sponsored program to give

27-39 million Blacks in America 1 million dollars each ! To move ONLY to an African country. ONLY. Do you know how much money that is!?

It would probably be some covert slave/debt to sell to China since they own most of it, and their so deep in Africa

as far as investment goes.

This shit wouldn't be pretty… cause nothing is that simple.

I guess for a thread premise thats been done a few times… its fun to discuss.

Carry on

well, the details of the thread premise is fucking stupid look who created it. but the idea of rich black people going to africa is a golden one

 

[StillFaggyAF]

People always relocate to other countries and become citizens of their new country every day b.. .

The US is a prime example of mass migration from different nationalities around the world. (it was originally a land stripped of its original inhabitants)

Why should learning a new language and culture be a problem?

None at all. If people wish to learn a new language and culture of our African brothers that's not a bad thing at all. My main issue is with this notion that the culture of Black Ameicans is somehow inferior to the cultures of the people of native-born Africans. All of our cultures and histories should be respected equally.

We got people in here arguing that Blacks in America haven't progressed, that Blacks in America didn't contribute to the prosperity of America and that Blacks in America have no future. Somebody even questioned the very existence of a Black American culture. That's what I'm taking exception to. That's White supremacist rhetoric no matter where it comes from and it's just not true. Acting as if Blacks haven't built ANYTHING in America is crazy to me.

@Stiff I agree with what you said but personally what do you think when you see the census and the future of us in America. People often talk of the fate of Latin American blacks soon coming for us.

I don't think more Brown people in the country is automatically bad for Black people, because all that does is weaken the power of white supremacy. I just don't see Brown people coming in and realistically replacing Whites as oppressors. I'd have to see the situation of specific countries in Latin America as examples to speak directly to that. Most hispanics in America have the same political and economic interests as most Blacks and tend to lean liberal like Blacks(except Cubans if I'm not mistaken).

Also if we look at how much power Jewish people have in this country you can see how the number of people don't necessarily have to be indicative to the amount of power a group has. Time will tell ultimately but I don't think Blacks should be as alarmed as Whites about the influx of of Brown people because it's not OUR power structure that's being threatened.

I think you should travel/study Latin America and their black history as a clue yo what may happen in the Us. Latinos can he of everyrace BUT in recent census es they have been increasingly identifying as white (simultaneously, in their home countries more and more people are acknowledging their African ancestry) They have a larger population than blacks and are increasing in wealth and power. And while certain latino ethnicities are / can be allied with blacks, many are not and they seek white American acceptance. Personally, I think ligh skin hispanics will be come socially white like italians and irish did in the 20th century and continue white supremacy in the us.