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DarkRaiden;6933923 said:jaxn;6933790 said:DarkRaiden;6926750 said:jaxn;6922252 said:DarkRaiden;6921061 said:The Lonious Monk;6919012 said:DarkRaiden;6918450 said:Except they do. Cap has done nothing to exceed Batman's "punching through bazooka proof glass" or "kicking a guy through a missile proof door" thing. Cap has never shown to be faster than Batman in any way either. Batman and Cap have similar stats when you look at what they've done, not the flawed way you look at them and their "character concepts". Batman is very superhuman, just like Cap.
Deathstroke hitting Flash, dodging Starfire's blasts, easily beating people who are physically superior to him and giving it to high tiers has A LOT to do with how he'll handle Cap. It shows how fast he is, how good he is at what he does, the arsenal he has at his disposal. Also you're forgetting that his healing factor and durability are leagues above Caps.
Deathstroke has 5-10 ton feats, Cap stays closer to 2 like Batman does.
So, my way of looking at things which is basically to take what is stated about and established for the character is "flawed," but you're way of basing everything on a couple high level feats is right? Ok, I don't know how long you've been reading comics, but I'm sure you know that feats go up and down like roller coasters. In one comic a character can be chucking cars like ninja stars, and in another comic that same character can be struggling to lift an enemy that barely ways a ton. That's how it goes. Unless you've got Batman performing some feats and have proof that Cap couldn't do the same easier, you're not definitively proving anything.
Just look at Batman's rogue gallery. Hardly any of them have super powers. Hell, Bane is probably one of his strongest enemies. He's just a roided up human and he damn near killed Batman. Pretty much everyone Cap fights, is superhuman.
As for Deathstroke, everything you're saying in favor of him can be said for Cap. Cap has school pretty much all the Avengers at some point or the other. So again, your example of how well he does against JL members is meaningless. Hell, forget the Avengers. Cap has gone into the Cosmic arena and been revered for his prowess. When you have the respect of members of alien races that were space faring while humans were still trying to figure out fire, you're doing something right.
Cap has schooled Thor? I mean I've seen him beat Hulk (complete PIS), Iron Man was also PIS, and Spidey didn't fight back, never seen him even take Luke Cage, and he's worse than Wolverine and they've made that prety clear. Difference is Deathstroke stomps most street levels period. And his JL/Teen Titan feats are consistent and happen nearly every time.
As for Bats, punching bazooka proof doors and missile proof doors are mid-high level at best. his real high levels are PIS and don't make sense. Bane is strong AND a great fighter which is why he's a good villain. Same reason Cap has problems with Red Skull and other street levelers.
But mainly, Bats has 1 ton+ strength feats (that Cap can match, but doesn't tend to exceed) and they both have similar speed feats. They're nearly identical.
What street level characters does Cap have problems with? Red Skull is also superhuman. Batman doesn't have any feats that suggest he can lift 1 ton nor has he shown anything to suggest he's on par with Cap physically.
Red Skull (street level is street level), Wolverine, Black Panther, Deadpool, Hawkeye. That's who I got right now. Probably more.
Just admit you have no idea what you're talking about. You're not really telling me everyone in the street level category are the same are you? Red Skull, Wolverine, BP and Deadpool are all superhuman characters and are all >>>> Batman physically. Hawkeye has never in his history given Cap problems. This is just a flat out lie. Cap trained Hawkeye to become the leader and fighter that he is today.
Bruh, you literally said "what street level characters does Cap have problems with" and I named them. Hawkeye has flat out beaten Cap before. Yeah Cap trained him, but Hawkeye still won that one fight. If Cap can lose to Hawkeye, he can lose to Batman. And he has.
DarkRaiden;6935833 said:The Lonious Monk;6934145 said:DarkRaiden;6933923 said:Bruh, you literally said "what street level characters does Cap have problems with" and I named them. Hawkeye has flat out beaten Cap before. Yeah Cap trained him, but Hawkeye still won that one fight. If Cap can lose to Hawkeye, he can lose to Batman. And he has.
The problem is that the list given are all people who are above Batman and would most likely whoop his ass.
And I think you need to add some context to the Cap/Hawkeye fight because saying "This character beat him so this character can automatically beat him too doesn't work." For instance, if Hawkeye used some info he knew about Cap due to them being teammates to pull of the win, that wouldn't apply to Batman.
Hawkeye used some SLIGHT knowledge at best cause Cap was using the plasma shield. But the point was that someone on Hawkeye's level was able to take it to Cap. Batman's above Hawkeye's physical level and the arrows Hakweye uses are like a tame version of Batman's utility belt.
As for the street levelers, you tried to act like Cap was above Street Level and he's not. Simple as that. Yeah Batman struggles with Bane, but so would Cap without the Shield. Bats also beats people stronger than him like Croc and Man-Bat.
So I still maintain that they're even.
BTW Hawkeye vs. Cap fight I'm referring too:
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DarkRaiden;6937070 said:The Lonious Monk;6936008 said:I don't know. That's some pretty weak evidence right there. Can Cap be beaten by someone on Hawkeye or Batman's level. Yes, under the right conditions anyone can be beaten by anyone. However, I hardly think a fight where Cap spent more time trying to dissuade Clint than actually seriously fight him is a good indicator of how Batman would fare.
How not? Let's not forget that Hawkeye is much worse than Batman in every way.
a.mann;6938417 said:no way in Hell any rational person
walked out that theatre and STILL come to the conclusion Bats can take Cap in a fair one
Even if their are equally skilled
the very first scene of the movie perfectly demonstrated why Cap will eventually win
GrandMasterSour;6939193 said:Na, he fights like bats in the very first scene. The batman movies never ever did Bruce justice when it came to fights. Dude was just slow and boring as fuck.
jaxn;6945223 said:DarkRaiden;6933923 said:jaxn;6933790 said:DarkRaiden;6926750 said:jaxn;6922252 said:DarkRaiden;6921061 said:The Lonious Monk;6919012 said:DarkRaiden;6918450 said:Except they do. Cap has done nothing to exceed Batman's "punching through bazooka proof glass" or "kicking a guy through a missile proof door" thing. Cap has never shown to be faster than Batman in any way either. Batman and Cap have similar stats when you look at what they've done, not the flawed way you look at them and their "character concepts". Batman is very superhuman, just like Cap.
Deathstroke hitting Flash, dodging Starfire's blasts, easily beating people who are physically superior to him and giving it to high tiers has A LOT to do with how he'll handle Cap. It shows how fast he is, how good he is at what he does, the arsenal he has at his disposal. Also you're forgetting that his healing factor and durability are leagues above Caps.
Deathstroke has 5-10 ton feats, Cap stays closer to 2 like Batman does.
So, my way of looking at things which is basically to take what is stated about and established for the character is "flawed," but you're way of basing everything on a couple high level feats is right? Ok, I don't know how long you've been reading comics, but I'm sure you know that feats go up and down like roller coasters. In one comic a character can be chucking cars like ninja stars, and in another comic that same character can be struggling to lift an enemy that barely ways a ton. That's how it goes. Unless you've got Batman performing some feats and have proof that Cap couldn't do the same easier, you're not definitively proving anything.
Just look at Batman's rogue gallery. Hardly any of them have super powers. Hell, Bane is probably one of his strongest enemies. He's just a roided up human and he damn near killed Batman. Pretty much everyone Cap fights, is superhuman.
As for Deathstroke, everything you're saying in favor of him can be said for Cap. Cap has school pretty much all the Avengers at some point or the other. So again, your example of how well he does against JL members is meaningless. Hell, forget the Avengers. Cap has gone into the Cosmic arena and been revered for his prowess. When you have the respect of members of alien races that were space faring while humans were still trying to figure out fire, you're doing something right.
Cap has schooled Thor? I mean I've seen him beat Hulk (complete PIS), Iron Man was also PIS, and Spidey didn't fight back, never seen him even take Luke Cage, and he's worse than Wolverine and they've made that prety clear. Difference is Deathstroke stomps most street levels period. And his JL/Teen Titan feats are consistent and happen nearly every time.
As for Bats, punching bazooka proof doors and missile proof doors are mid-high level at best. his real high levels are PIS and don't make sense. Bane is strong AND a great fighter which is why he's a good villain. Same reason Cap has problems with Red Skull and other street levelers.
But mainly, Bats has 1 ton+ strength feats (that Cap can match, but doesn't tend to exceed) and they both have similar speed feats. They're nearly identical.
What street level characters does Cap have problems with? Red Skull is also superhuman. Batman doesn't have any feats that suggest he can lift 1 ton nor has he shown anything to suggest he's on par with Cap physically.
Red Skull (street level is street level), Wolverine, Black Panther, Deadpool, Hawkeye. That's who I got right now. Probably more.
Just admit you have no idea what you're talking about. You're not really telling me everyone in the street level category are the same are you? Red Skull, Wolverine, BP and Deadpool are all superhuman characters and are all >>>> Batman physically. Hawkeye has never in his history given Cap problems. This is just a flat out lie. Cap trained Hawkeye to become the leader and fighter that he is today.
Bruh, you literally said "what street level characters does Cap have problems with" and I named them. Hawkeye has flat out beaten Cap before. Yeah Cap trained him, but Hawkeye still won that one fight. If Cap can lose to Hawkeye, he can lose to Batman. And he has.
You named people who Cap has fought, not folks who give them problems..and besides, these same street level folks would beat the dog piss out of Batman..You're using enhanced individuals as your evidence. Batman isn't enhanced. Hawkeye beat Cap one time in over 50 years of comics and that's the evidence you're using? Have you read or seen any other appearances of the two? I'm asking because there's this thing in comics called high end showings..you should pay attention to them more.
GrandMasterSour;6939193 said:Na, he fights like bats in the very first scene. The batman movies never ever did Bruce justice when it came to fights. Dude was just slow and boring as fuck.
The Lonious Monk;6943860 said:By realistically, I'm guessing you mean comic realism, which even then isn't really correct since more often than not ninjas in comics are used as fodder.
gns;6952023 said:Smfh u dudes voting with your hearts nh.
But...but...it's Bruce(
Bats is in peak human physical condition(sometimes) Cap is above that shit, simple as that.
I fux with Batman too but dude can and has gotten his ass beat b4, it's no shame in admitting it.