You gotta respect Hyundai... they going riight for the 300C...

[konceptjones]

hyundai started to gain steam in 03 with them bringing out the V6 Tiburon.

yeah, but it was waaaaaaay underpowered for what it looked like. Shoulda had at least 200hp. The V6 powered competition had 200 or more (210hp in the Eclipse) and even the 4 bangers had more power (Celica had ~190hp, Prelude had ~200hp, Scion TC supercharged had 200hp, Saturn Ion Redline had 200hp in normal trim and 240hp with factory Stage 2).

The Genesis coupe was the real step in the right direction. RWD, lots of power and enough twist to get it off the line quickly.

 

The user and all related content has been deleted.

 

[rage]

hyundai started to gain steam in 03 with them bringing out the V6 Tiburon.

yeah, but it was waaaaaaay underpowered for what it looked like. Shoulda had at least 200hp. The V6 powered competition had 200 or more (210hp in the Eclipse) and even the 4 bangers had more power (Celica had ~190hp, Prelude had ~200hp, Scion TC supercharged had 200hp, Saturn Ion Redline had 200hp in normal trim and 240hp with factory Stage 2).

The Genesis coupe was the real step in the right direction. RWD, lots of power and enough twist to get it off the line quickly.

The next GC is gonna have the 5.0 V8 from the Genesis Sedan R-spec....or a twin turbo V6.

 

[konceptjones]

We forget that this was once what Hyundai considered a "performance coupe"

The turbo version had a mind numbing 115hp. Went from 0 to 60 in an amazing 9.5 seconds.

 

[rage]

We forget that this was once what Hyundai considered a "performance coupe"

The turbo version had a mind numbing 115hp. Went from 0 to 60 in an amazing 9.5 seconds.

You know thats not "terrible" for that category of car in that time period. I mean 2.0L Golf GTI's were making 115hp as well (non VR6 obviously) in 1995.

 

[blakfyahking]

cats in here agreeing that Hyundai still got brand issues

but don't think they need to set up a separate "luxury" division?

cats need to pay attention to branding issues like this..............cause this is typical of what businesses do to fuck up a good product

this is especially a big issue in the car industry, which is why it seems like many cars today are starting to look more and more like their competitors

and in the end it leaves consumers with less options to choose from IMO

common cause of car companies folding/having problems is due to poor branding and/or support from their manufacturing base

some examples: GM, Ford, Dodge (hell all american car companies for that matter haha), Mazda (SMH), and Jaguar

Here's the problem Hyundai faces with setting up a "Luxury" nameplate:

Honda was known as a company that made extremely reliable, if a bit boring cars. In the 80's, Honda's US offerings were limited to the Accord, CVCC/Civic, Prelude, and the CRX. Honda, however, had entered into a joint venture with Rover to develop a car in much the same way that GM and Toyota did the same earlier in the decade to develop the Nova/Corolla twins. The resulting car, the Legend, was sold under the Acura nameplate, and in order to give buyers a choice, they brought over the Honda Quint Integra, rebadged as the Acura Integra. (incidentally, the Rover variant of the legend, the Rover 800 was also sold in the US under the nameplate Sterling... Shouted out by Greg Nice on "Sometimes I Rhyme Slow").

Toyota did it successfully because they didn't have the stigma of "cheap car" and they had a shit ton of cars they could bring to the states under a luxury nameplate. They developed the LS400 as a new car specifically to create a flagship luxury model and a brand and took a few existing cars and added them to the mix. The SC series is the 3rd generation Toyota Soarer (first two gens not available in north america). The GS was based on a then two year old Toyota Aristo. The ES was famously based on the Camary, with the original ES250 looking so much like the Camary that it got clowned (Toyota took it off that platform for the 2nd gen, but it went back on the Camary platform for gen 3 onward).

Nissan, like Toyota, didn't have the stigma either. In fact, Nissan was known for performance oriented cars like the ZX series, Silvia/SX series (S12 200SX and up), NX series, and Maxima SE as well as the well known yet never released in America Skyline GT-R. Nissan. With Honda's Acura namplate doing well, and Toyota's Lexus on the horizon, they took their Nissan President, tweaked it and rebadged it as the Infiniti Q45, then they took the Nissan Leopard and rebadged it as the Infiniti M30. Playing one-up, they also took the M30 and chopped the top for a convertible variant which no other Japanese luxury make had at the time.

Mazda did attempt to create a line of cars under the nameplate "Amati" but it never got off the ground. I had to do a wikipedia search 'cause my memory is fuzzy on it, but apparently the Mazda Millenia was originally supposed to be an Amati car along with a coupe based on the RWD Mazda Cosmos coupe (which I remember from the 90's as a car I wished Mazda brought over to the US), and a V12 variant of the 929. It probably would have done well, but Mazda didn't think so and scrapped the whole plan.

Why this worked for these companies but won't for Hyundai is that not one of these companies have the "cheap" label attached. All were respected as companies that made well built, long lasting cars so no one batted an eye when they wanted to go upscale.

No one will trust a "luxury" Hyundai. Not for a looooon time.

the fact that you mentioned the Mazda Millenia gave your post extra credibility cause you obviously know what you are talking about

me personally, I'm a car purist so this is one of my favorite topics haha

I got a Mazda Millenia I keep as a daily driver now, and I love the car, but hate how Mazda fucked up its potential

the Millenia replaced the 929 Mazda (my 1st legal whip) and I fell in love with Mazda as a teen

however, because they poorly executed it as a pre-luxury vehicle, Mazda brand is in shambles today

Mazda had the potential to be competing with luxury brands today because the designs and innovations in the Millenia were some of the 1st ideas that even luxury cars today use.............shit is a tragedy to see how Mazda messed up even with Ford's money backing them (and Ford sharing platforms again is what fucked up Mazda SMH)

I'll address the rest of your post in another post

Nobody is buying a Hyundai over a BMW if they are priced similarly....it will NEVER happen. Hyundai (and KIA) have had MONSTER sales for the past 2 years.They will need a few more years of that before even thinking about launching another brand.

10 yrs ago the bolded was obviously true

however, the fact that BMW has brought out these smaller, cheaper vehicles recently lets you know that Hyundai has become a serious threat

BMWs are only getting by Hyundais currently because of the strong brand and their road performance

but let Hyundai come out with a 500HP car and set up its luxury brand correctly, shit will def be a different story champ

 

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[blakfyahking]

/titangraph alert haha

also as far as Honda, Toyota, Nissan

these three brands enjoy a lot of manufacturing support.............which means not only is it cheaper to maintain their luxury vehicles, but they also enjoy heavy aftermarket support

Honda was able to pull off Acura because they had a motorcycle racing heritage........and Honda was smart enough to recognize that there was an open market for mid-range luxury vehicles that offered a more affordable standard of quality.....................combining Honda's motorcycle heritage with a new luxury brand was smart because Honda recognized that there was a market for them to make luxury vehicles, but it didn't make sense to risk messing with selling their bread and butter (ie. Civics and later Accords). Diluting any "luxury" brand would have only diminished the "stunt factor" that a luxury vehicle is suppose to provide

Nissan had already become successful selling Datsuns, and eventually recognized the need to compete with Honda's new Acura brand. But Nissan was already like Mazda in the sense that they had racer/sports like vehicles that could serve a niche market. Nissan knew that even though cars like the Fairlady Z and later the Maxima were great cars, they saw that there were customers who were checking for Nissan but were looking for more luxury. Hence it made sense to come out with Infiniti

Toyota was the same way as Honda as far as being successful selling small vehicles except Toyota's marketing and manufacturing expertise gave it an edge over the other two. Toyota was able to sell both small family cars like Honda, but was also able to sell sportier cars like Nissan. So Toyota knew they were going to have to have a luxury brand too, hence Lexus was born

The thing about Japanese cars is they have an advantage in electronics integration in their vehicles, and they historically gained in US markets because of their fuel efficiency

Hyundai is screwed in the sense that it doesn't have a racing heritage, nor did it have great manufacturing support which meant the 1st time Hyundai sold Excels in the 80s, potential customers weren't willing invest a lot in purchasing many other Hyundai products

now that Hyundai has improved its quality thru better manufacturing and support, now customers are willing to consider the Hyundai as a legitimate car. Hyundai could have ended up like Mazda, but they were at least smart enough to recognize that pre-luxury is a dangerous category to compete in. Especially if your ultimate goal is to compete in the higher categories that BMW and MB serve

Hyundai would be wise to take advantage to re-badge their luxury cars now while the rest of the car industry is shaky

 

[rage]

Hyundai really needs to stop being lazy and re-brand these luxury vehicles they trying to come out with

they are going to make the same mistake that Mazda made in the 90s and end up fucking up their identity

a lot more customers would be willing to buy Hyundai's high end cars, but they can't get past Hyundai historic "cheap" label

I dont think they need to set up a whole new dealer network and infrastructure for the brand. Just rebadge the vehicles as pure Genesis and set a separate area in the dealership just for the Genesis brand with exclusive sales people/tech etc. Hyundai's proposition right now is great value for dollar, incurring more expense would reduce that proposition.

Kinda like Fiat is doing with SRT? I think it will work initially but once people realize its still Hyundai it won't matter. No matter what anyone says the new Viper is still a Dodge. As said it's all about marketing though.

Lexus was (and is still a Toyota) at one point. Hyundai and Kia are both rapidly shedding the budget stigma. Both of them keep having record sales months, quarters and years. I don't think the old school prejudices are going to be a problem within the next 5 to 10 years. German cars are getting exposed for being just as unreliable if not MORE unreliable than American, Asian cars. There was a reliability study done by a german magazine that took a survey of over 200,000 cars and owners and Hyundai came out on top, beating out Benz, Bimmer, Audi etc.

One thing you need to take into account.. Folks who buy German cars.. Do not buy them for reliability.. Reliability is probably at the end of their list of reasons why they buy German... A German car buyer IMO wouldnt even consider anything from Hyundai or Kia.. Whether they rebrand it or not... Although rebranding would probably help these auto makers..

I agree 100% even Hyundai execs will admit this to you. I dont think they are going after zee Germans, but by benchmarking the germans they are pounding on the Japs like Acura and Infiniti...maybe a little Lexus.

 

The user and all related content has been deleted.

 

[rage]

Hyundai really needs to stop being lazy and re-brand these luxury vehicles they trying to come out with

they are going to make the same mistake that Mazda made in the 90s and end up fucking up their identity

a lot more customers would be willing to buy Hyundai's high end cars, but they can't get past Hyundai historic "cheap" label

I dont think they need to set up a whole new dealer network and infrastructure for the brand. Just rebadge the vehicles as pure Genesis and set a separate area in the dealership just for the Genesis brand with exclusive sales people/tech etc. Hyundai's proposition right now is great value for dollar, incurring more expense would reduce that proposition.

Kinda like Fiat is doing with SRT? I think it will work initially but once people realize its still Hyundai it won't matter. No matter what anyone says the new Viper is still a Dodge. As said it's all about marketing though.

Lexus was (and is still a Toyota) at one point. Hyundai and Kia are both rapidly shedding the budget stigma. Both of them keep having record sales months, quarters and years. I don't think the old school prejudices are going to be a problem within the next 5 to 10 years. German cars are getting exposed for being just as unreliable if not MORE unreliable than American, Asian cars. There was a reliability study done by a german magazine that took a survey of over 200,000 cars and owners and Hyundai came out on top, beating out Benz, Bimmer, Audi etc.

One thing you need to take into account.. Folks who buy German cars.. Do not buy them for reliability.. Reliability is probably at the end of their list of reasons why they buy German... A German car buyer IMO wouldnt even consider anything from Hyundai or Kia.. Whether they rebrand it or not... Although rebranding would probably help these auto makers..

I agree 100% even Hyundai execs will admit this to you. I dont think they are going after zee Germans, but by benchmarking the germans they are pounding on the Japs like Acura and Infiniti...maybe a little Lexus.

I mean that's a helluva strategy.. To be the BEST.. You have to beat the Best...

That's my issue with Domestic cars.. I'm a first generation African American.. I picked up my foreign/German car obsession up while living in Ghana as a kid.. But at the same time.. I am a proud American.. If Detroit were to put out cars comparable to the German's I would seriously consider it.. I refer this example all the time.. THe Camaro.. When I got rid of my Range Rover... I seriously considered getting one.. But the fuckin interior pissed me the fuck off.. Navigation wasnt even an option back then.. How the fuck can you bring such a well designed car to market and short change the customer on the interior?..

Granted it isnt supposed to be nor marketed as a luxury car.. But that car deserves a better designed interior.. With higher quality interior materials.. Even if it tacks on another 15k to the price.. You might lose some buyers but you would steal ones directly from the Germans..

LoL.. Thats my American car rant for the day. haha..

just need 8 years of a republican run government... you'll see another upswing in the muscle car group.

believe that.

You sure?.. Cuz it seems to me under the last republican run government is when Detroit was struggling and was pumping out BS.. They have gotten better during the current administration...

Yup, the current admin is FAR FAR tougher on automakers in terms of MPG, Safety etc. This forces car companies to be innovative and push their designs further. This benefits the customers...I mean we have a 600hp cars getting damn near 30mpg (MP4-12c). The new LT1 has 26mpg with 25% less emissions. Its a great time for car lovers.

 

[blakfyahking]

Hyundai really needs to stop being lazy and re-brand these luxury vehicles they trying to come out with

they are going to make the same mistake that Mazda made in the 90s and end up fucking up their identity

a lot more customers would be willing to buy Hyundai's high end cars, but they can't get past Hyundai historic "cheap" label

I dont think they need to set up a whole new dealer network and infrastructure for the brand. Just rebadge the vehicles as pure Genesis and set a separate area in the dealership just for the Genesis brand with exclusive sales people/tech etc. Hyundai's proposition right now is great value for dollar, incurring more expense would reduce that proposition.

Kinda like Fiat is doing with SRT? I think it will work initially but once people realize its still Hyundai it won't matter. No matter what anyone says the new Viper is still a Dodge. As said it's all about marketing though.

Lexus was (and is still a Toyota) at one point. Hyundai and Kia are both rapidly shedding the budget stigma. Both of them keep having record sales months, quarters and years. I don't think the old school prejudices are going to be a problem within the next 5 to 10 years. German cars are getting exposed for being just as unreliable if not MORE unreliable than American, Asian cars. There was a reliability study done by a german magazine that took a survey of over 200,000 cars and owners and Hyundai came out on top, beating out Benz, Bimmer, Audi etc.

One thing you need to take into account.. Folks who buy German cars.. Do not buy them for reliability.. Reliability is probably at the end of their list of reasons why they buy German... A German car buyer IMO wouldnt even consider anything from Hyundai or Kia.. Whether they rebrand it or not... Although rebranding would probably help these auto makers..

the bolded is true

but if there wasn't a possibility of German car buyers being open-minded to other brands, MB wouldn't be struggling to keep up with BMW

and BMW wouldn't be willing to put out all these new smaller cars

and of course I'm talking about mid-luxury car buyers (5-series, E-Class and down)

anybody buying high-end (6-series and up, CLS-class and up) more than likely doesn't care about maintenance and long term viability of their car

 

[aneed123]

Hyundai needs to separate its name from the luxuary brand they come out with.... have folk think its two separate companies for its initial launch so it can get the casual car buyer who will think they are buying a "new luxury brand" the right promotion and people behind it ie celebrities " kind like how 50 pushed the 300" and Game had the "magnum in his videos" and they could get off the ground hype wise.... the thing that helped Toyota,Nissan, and Honda is that alot of people ie women/youth didnt know that Lexus/Infiniti/and Acura were under that brand. The Genesis is a beautiful car but too many folk wont buy it cuz its a "Hyundai" and they would rather spend that big amount of bread on a "known" luxuary brand. shot out to whoever mentioned that Mazda Millenia... It used to remind me of the the old Infini Q with the round face

 

[konceptjones]

Hyundai really needs to stop being lazy and re-brand these luxury vehicles they trying to come out with

they are going to make the same mistake that Mazda made in the 90s and end up fucking up their identity

a lot more customers would be willing to buy Hyundai's high end cars, but they can't get past Hyundai historic "cheap" label

I dont think they need to set up a whole new dealer network and infrastructure for the brand. Just rebadge the vehicles as pure Genesis and set a separate area in the dealership just for the Genesis brand with exclusive sales people/tech etc. Hyundai's proposition right now is great value for dollar, incurring more expense would reduce that proposition.

Kinda like Fiat is doing with SRT? I think it will work initially but once people realize its still Hyundai it won't matter. No matter what anyone says the new Viper is still a Dodge. As said it's all about marketing though.

Lexus was (and is still a Toyota) at one point. Hyundai and Kia are both rapidly shedding the budget stigma. Both of them keep having record sales months, quarters and years. I don't think the old school prejudices are going to be a problem within the next 5 to 10 years. German cars are getting exposed for being just as unreliable if not MORE unreliable than American, Asian cars. There was a reliability study done by a german magazine that took a survey of over 200,000 cars and owners and Hyundai came out on top, beating out Benz, Bimmer, Audi etc.

One thing you need to take into account.. Folks who buy German cars.. Do not buy them for reliability.. Reliability is probably at the end of their list of reasons why they buy German... A German car buyer IMO wouldnt even consider anything from Hyundai or Kia.. Whether they rebrand it or not... Although rebranding would probably help these auto makers..

I agree 100% even Hyundai execs will admit this to you. I dont think they are going after zee Germans, but by benchmarking the germans they are pounding on the Japs like Acura and Infiniti...maybe a little Lexus.

I mean that's a helluva strategy.. To be the BEST.. You have to beat the Best...

That's my issue with Domestic cars.. I'm a first generation African American.. I picked up my foreign/German car obsession up while living in Ghana as a kid.. But at the same time.. I am a proud American.. If Detroit were to put out cars comparable to the German's I would seriously consider it.. I refer this example all the time.. THe Camaro.. When I got rid of my Range Rover... I seriously considered getting one.. But the fuckin interior pissed me the fuck off.. Navigation wasnt even an option back then.. How the fuck can you bring such a well designed car to market and short change the customer on the interior?..

Granted it isnt supposed to be nor marketed as a luxury car.. But that car deserves a better designed interior.. With higher quality interior materials.. Even if it tacks on another 15k to the price.. You might lose some buyers but you would steal ones directly from the Germans..

LoL.. Thats my American car rant for the day. haha..

just need 8 years of a republican run government... you'll see another upswing in the muscle car group.

believe that.

You sure?.. Cuz it seems to me under the last republican run government is when Detroit was struggling and was pumping out BS.. They have gotten better during the current administration...

let us not forget that this was released during the Bush era:

 

The user and all related content has been deleted.

 

[rage]

^^^^

This is true, Benz E classes are taxis in Germany, BMW 3 series are essentially civics there. In fact TUV did a reliability test of over 200,000 cars over 5 years and Hyundai came out on top beating all the German brands.

 

[louis rich]

Hyundai really needs to stop being lazy and re-brand these luxury vehicles they trying to come out with

they are going to make the same mistake that Mazda made in the 90s and end up fucking up their identity

a lot more customers would be willing to buy Hyundai's high end cars, but they can't get past Hyundai historic "cheap" label

I dont think they need to set up a whole new dealer network and infrastructure for the brand. Just rebadge the vehicles as pure Genesis and set a separate area in the dealership just for the Genesis brand with exclusive sales people/tech etc. Hyundai's proposition right now is great value for dollar, incurring more expense would reduce that proposition.

Kinda like Fiat is doing with SRT? I think it will work initially but once people realize its still Hyundai it won't matter. No matter what anyone says the new Viper is still a Dodge. As said it's all about marketing though.

Lexus was (and is still a Toyota) at one point. Hyundai and Kia are both rapidly shedding the budget stigma. Both of them keep having record sales months, quarters and years. I don't think the old school prejudices are going to be a problem within the next 5 to 10 years. German cars are getting exposed for being just as unreliable if not MORE unreliable than American, Asian cars. There was a reliability study done by a german magazine that took a survey of over 200,000 cars and owners and Hyundai came out on top, beating out Benz, Bimmer, Audi etc.

One thing you need to take into account.. Folks who buy German cars.. Do not buy them for reliability.. Reliability is probably at the end of their list of reasons why they buy German... A German car buyer IMO wouldnt even consider anything from Hyundai or Kia.. Whether they rebrand it or not... Although rebranding would probably help these auto makers..

the bolded is true

but if there wasn't a possibility of German car buyers being open-minded to other brands, MB wouldn't be struggling to keep up with BMW

and BMW wouldn't be willing to put out all these new smaller cars

and of course I'm talking about mid-luxury car buyers (5-series, E-Class and down)

anybody buying high-end (6-series and up, CLS-class and up) more than likely doesn't care about maintenance and long term viability of their car

@ the bold, u do know these are all the same cars? 5-6ers & E-CLS....nothing high end about them, unless u add M or AMG

 

[blakfyahking]

Hyundai really needs to stop being lazy and re-brand these luxury vehicles they trying to come out with

they are going to make the same mistake that Mazda made in the 90s and end up fucking up their identity

a lot more customers would be willing to buy Hyundai's high end cars, but they can't get past Hyundai historic "cheap" label

I dont think they need to set up a whole new dealer network and infrastructure for the brand. Just rebadge the vehicles as pure Genesis and set a separate area in the dealership just for the Genesis brand with exclusive sales people/tech etc. Hyundai's proposition right now is great value for dollar, incurring more expense would reduce that proposition.

Kinda like Fiat is doing with SRT? I think it will work initially but once people realize its still Hyundai it won't matter. No matter what anyone says the new Viper is still a Dodge. As said it's all about marketing though.

Lexus was (and is still a Toyota) at one point. Hyundai and Kia are both rapidly shedding the budget stigma. Both of them keep having record sales months, quarters and years. I don't think the old school prejudices are going to be a problem within the next 5 to 10 years. German cars are getting exposed for being just as unreliable if not MORE unreliable than American, Asian cars. There was a reliability study done by a german magazine that took a survey of over 200,000 cars and owners and Hyundai came out on top, beating out Benz, Bimmer, Audi etc.

One thing you need to take into account.. Folks who buy German cars.. Do not buy them for reliability.. Reliability is probably at the end of their list of reasons why they buy German... A German car buyer IMO wouldnt even consider anything from Hyundai or Kia.. Whether they rebrand it or not... Although rebranding would probably help these auto makers..

the bolded is true

but if there wasn't a possibility of German car buyers being open-minded to other brands, MB wouldn't be struggling to keep up with BMW

and BMW wouldn't be willing to put out all these new smaller cars

and of course I'm talking about mid-luxury car buyers (5-series, E-Class and down)

anybody buying high-end (6-series and up, CLS-class and up) more than likely doesn't care about maintenance and long term viability of their car

@ the bold, u do know these are all the same cars? 5-6ers & E-CLS....nothing high end about them, unless u add M or AMG

nosign......I basically posted that as a guide to distinguish between $50K and up being a different luxury market than $50K and below

there is a difference between the average cat copping a 535 or E-Class, vs. a cat buying a 6-series or CLS

then if you throw in AMG and M the differences are even greater

real talk you can't even really consider your shit luxury unless you starting off at the least $50K with a V8......and even that is kind of low balling it