You gotta respect Hyundai... they going riight for the 300C...

[wilberdmillz]

Hyundai really needs to stop being lazy and re-brand these luxury vehicles they trying to come out with

they are going to make the same mistake that Mazda made in the 90s and end up fucking up their identity

a lot more customers would be willing to buy Hyundai's high end cars, but they can't get past Hyundai historic "cheap" label

I dont think they need to set up a whole new dealer network and infrastructure for the brand. Just rebadge the vehicles as pure Genesis and set a separate area in the dealership just for the Genesis brand with exclusive sales people/tech etc. Hyundai's proposition right now is great value for dollar, incurring more expense would reduce that proposition.

Kinda like Fiat is doing with SRT? I think it will work initially but once people realize its still Hyundai it won't matter. No matter what anyone says the new Viper is still a Dodge. As said it's all about marketing though.

 

[rage]

Hyundai really needs to stop being lazy and re-brand these luxury vehicles they trying to come out with

they are going to make the same mistake that Mazda made in the 90s and end up fucking up their identity

a lot more customers would be willing to buy Hyundai's high end cars, but they can't get past Hyundai historic "cheap" label

I dont think they need to set up a whole new dealer network and infrastructure for the brand. Just rebadge the vehicles as pure Genesis and set a separate area in the dealership just for the Genesis brand with exclusive sales people/tech etc. Hyundai's proposition right now is great value for dollar, incurring more expense would reduce that proposition.

Kinda like Fiat is doing with SRT? I think it will work initially but once people realize its still Hyundai it won't matter. No matter what anyone says the new Viper is still a Dodge. As said it's all about marketing though.

Lexus was (and is still a Toyota) at one point. Hyundai and Kia are both rapidly shedding the budget stigma. Both of them keep having record sales months, quarters and years. I don't think the old school prejudices are going to be a problem within the next 5 to 10 years. German cars are getting exposed for being just as unreliable if not MORE unreliable than American, Asian cars. There was a reliability study done by a german magazine that took a survey of over 200,000 cars and owners and Hyundai came out on top, beating out Benz, Bimmer, Audi etc.

 

[Aristo_V300]

Hyundai been stepped they game up... I'd buy a Genesis if there weren't other cars I wanted more.

 

[GettinLo]

FWD???

Remember kids: V8 + FWD = No Bueno.

Uhhh...these are all RWD...

Bet. Then it makes sense.

I, for one, am glad that RWD is making a strong comeback. The dark days of big ass/powerful ass engines in FWD cars may be over soon.

Someone PLEASE tell the geniuses @ Acura this

 

[rage]

FWD???

Remember kids: V8 + FWD = No Bueno.

Uhhh...these are all RWD...

Bet. Then it makes sense.

I, for one, am glad that RWD is making a strong comeback. The dark days of big ass/powerful ass engines in FWD cars may be over soon.

Someone PLEASE tell the geniuses @ Honda this

Fixed....the Japs really need to get on the RWD bandwagon and quickly. For Honda not to have ONE RWD platform in the NA market is disgusting. The Accord Coupe should be RWD and there should be a new CL based on that platform.

 

[Alpha1ONE]

I like the fact that hyundai is trying to lean towards luxury- they some sleek and nice joints in thier lineup.. but everytime I see a Genesis I always thing to my self "its a Hyundai under the hood tho"..

 

[t_m_a_c_f_a_n73088]

Hyundai shed that cheap label a long time ago. Fact is(and I've heard people say this out their mouth) certain people won't cop a genesis no matter how nice it is because they can't stunt in a hyundai. I have a sonata and a maxima and my sonata holds up just as well if not better than the max

 

[konceptjones]

Hyundai shed that cheap label a long time ago. Fact is(and I've heard people say this out their mouth) certain people won't cop a genesis no matter how nice it is because they can't stunt in a hyundai. I have a sonata and a maxima and my sonata holds up just as well if not better than the max

Nah bruh. Hyundai is still known for god awful looking or boring, mundane looking shitbox cars. Only recently have they made an attempt to change that perception.

Prior to 2010, Hyundai cars looked like shit, plain, or just fuckin odd. The Tiburon looked like a pile of cow shit until the 2nd Gen redesign and then was hampered with an underpowered V6 in it's best iteration.

The Accent always looked like the designer was on LSD when he designed it up to the 2010 redesign.

The Sonata was butt ugly and struggled to find an identity until the 2010 redesign (oddly, the best looking was also the most boring looking, the 88-93 Sonata).

The Elantra was always a "meh" looking car. Again, the 2010 redesigned made it a good looking ride.

It's gonna take time before they can overcome the stigma attached to their name. For 25 years ('85-2010), the name "Hyundai" stood for "cheap shitty car you only buy 'cause you have to".

 

[wilberdmillz]

Hyundai shed that cheap label a long time ago. Fact is(and I've heard people say this out their mouth) certain people won't cop a genesis no matter how nice it is because they can't stunt in a hyundai. I have a sonata and a maxima and my sonata holds up just as well if not better than the max

Nah bruh. Hyundai is still known for god awful looking or boring, mundane looking shitbox cars. Only recently have they made an attempt to change that perception.

Prior to 2010, Hyundai cars looked like shit, plain, or just fuckin odd. The Tiburon looked like a pile of cow shit until the 2nd Gen redesign and then was hampered with an underpowered V6 in it's best iteration.

The Accent always looked like the designer was on LSD when he designed it up to the 2010 redesign.

The Sonata was butt ugly and struggled to find an identity until the 2010 redesign (oddly, the best looking was also the most boring looking, the 88-93 Sonata).

The Elantra was always a "meh" looking car. Again, the 2010 redesigned made it a good looking ride.

It's gonna take time before they can overcome the stigma attached to their name. For 25 years ('85-2010), the name "Hyundai" stood for "cheap shitty car you only buy 'cause you have to".

Exactly!! This recent redesign is a good step though.

 

[blakfyahking]

cats in here agreeing that Hyundai still got brand issues

but don't think they need to set up a separate "luxury" division?

cats need to pay attention to branding issues like this..............cause this is typical of what businesses do to fuck up a good product

this is especially a big issue in the car industry, which is why it seems like many cars today are starting to look more and more like their competitors

and in the end it leaves consumers with less options to choose from IMO

common cause of car companies folding/having problems is due to poor branding and/or support from their manufacturing base

some examples: GM, Ford, Dodge (hell all american car companies for that matter haha), Mazda (SMH), and Jaguar

 

[wilberdmillz]

Ford? Last I checked that were doing pretty good.

 

[t_m_a_c_f_a_n73088]

Hyundai shed that cheap label a long time ago. Fact is(and I've heard people say this out their mouth) certain people won't cop a genesis no matter how nice it is because they can't stunt in a hyundai. I have a sonata and a maxima and my sonata holds up just as well if not better than the max

Nah bruh. Hyundai is still known for god awful looking or boring, mundane looking shitbox cars. Only recently have they made an attempt to change that perception.

Prior to 2010, Hyundai cars looked like shit, plain, or just fuckin odd. The Tiburon looked like a pile of cow shit until the 2nd Gen redesign and then was hampered with an underpowered V6 in it's best iteration.

The Accent always looked like the designer was on LSD when he designed it up to the 2010 redesign.

The Sonata was butt ugly and struggled to find an identity until the 2010 redesign (oddly, the best looking was also the most boring looking, the 88-93 Sonata).

The Elantra was always a "meh" looking car. Again, the 2010 redesigned made it a good looking ride.

It's gonna take time before they can overcome the stigma attached to their name. For 25 years ('85-2010), the name "Hyundai" stood for "cheap shitty car you only buy 'cause you have to".

as far as looks go yea I definitely agree. I thought you were talking reliability wise...

 

[rage]

cats in here agreeing that Hyundai still got brand issues

but don't think they need to set up a separate "luxury" division?

cats need to pay attention to branding issues like this..............cause this is typical of what businesses do to fuck up a good product

this is especially a big issue in the car industry, which is why it seems like many cars today are starting to look more and more like their competitors

and in the end it leaves consumers with less options to choose from IMO

common cause of car companies folding/having problems is due to poor branding and/or support from their manufacturing base

some examples: GM, Ford, Dodge (hell all american car companies for that matter haha), Mazda (SMH), and Jaguar

Creating a new luxury division will only add cost to the cars. Something has to pay for the cost of the new infrastructure and overhead. This removes any value proposition Hyundai currently has.

 

[blakfyahking]

Ford? Last I checked that were doing pretty good.

yes Ford............maybe currently they are doing fine

but people forget a couple years ago how Ford's Automotive Group sold off a lot of its brands

Ford used to own Aston Martin, Jaguar, Volvo, Range Rover, and used to push out its own luxury brand Mercury

but because of branding issues like Hyundai is close to doing with their attempt to step into the luxury market, Ford needed to trim down and preserve their brand (and save money by preserving other brands they were diluting)

Brands are important, especially in the car industry...........just look at what Ford did to Mazda when Ford only had a 33% stake

Mazda had the potential to become niche sports and luxury vehicles today............now they make just family cars SMH

cats in here agreeing that Hyundai still got brand issues

but don't think they need to set up a separate "luxury" division?

cats need to pay attention to branding issues like this..............cause this is typical of what businesses do to fuck up a good product

this is especially a big issue in the car industry, which is why it seems like many cars today are starting to look more and more like their competitors

and in the end it leaves consumers with less options to choose from IMO

common cause of car companies folding/having problems is due to poor branding and/or support from their manufacturing base

some examples: GM, Ford, Dodge (hell all american car companies for that matter haha), Mazda (SMH), and Jaguar

Creating a new luxury division will only add cost to the cars. Something has to pay for the cost of the new infrastructure and overhead. This removes any value proposition Hyundai currently has.

not really cause when you start competing in luxury markets, people pay that extra cost (premium) for the brand

somebody already said that the main reason most people ain't ready to jump on Hyundai's luxury cars just yet because the brand doesn't bring a stunt factor to it yet

and if the Equus is already competing in above a $50K+ range, their value proposition is still preserved if you consider reliability is the one factor that has been getting customers to pay attention to Hyundai more

think about it, if a BMW and a Hyundai are the same price, how is Hyundai's value proposition hurt if it's more reliable (thus cheaper to own)?

artificially keeping ya cars lower priced only dilutes the brand and leaves you less wiggle room to push the envelope in the future.............you looking at least another 20 or so years before mofos would even be willing to consider a Hyundai next to a BMW/Benz in having "stunting power" haha

 

[wilberdmillz]

@blakfyahking Ford did the right thing getting rid of the dead weight and thats why they're in such a good position. Ford's Luxury division is and always has been Lincoln and they have some nice cars out. I also find it crazy how fords new car front ends look very Aston like.

That's GM's problem, they have to many brands and shit looks the same. Yukon,Tahoe,Excalade ALL look the same IMO they're hurting themselves by doing this. GM did right by ending Hummer and Pontiac as well.

 

[blakfyahking]

@blakfyahking Ford did the right thing getting rid of the dead weight and thats why they're in such a good position. Ford's Luxury division is and always has been Lincoln and they have some nice cars out. I also find it crazy how fords new car front ends look very Aston like.

That's GM's problem, they have to many brands and shit looks the same. Yukon,Tahoe,Excalade ALL look the same IMO they're hurting themselves by doing this. GM did right by ending Hummer and Pontiac as well.

the problem wasn't really that Ford got rid of dead weight

they just poorly mismanaged the brands of several vehicles

for example: just like GM has too many similar vehicles...................Ford was doing something even worse by sharing platforms between vehicles with starkly different brands

wtf was they thinking trying to share a platform of the Ford Mondeo with the X-type and thinking that shit wouldn't degrade Jaguar's brand at all?

GM has been getting away with brands that look similar because each truck brand serves a different market.............GM's real issue is its brands overseas, and their inability to manage the brands of its cars in the same way it does trucks

picking between an Escalade and Tahoe makes way more sense than picking between a Pontiac and an Oldsmobile when you consider the manufacturing support across similar vehicles

 

[wilberdmillz]

@blakfyahking Ford did the right thing getting rid of the dead weight and thats why they're in such a good position. Ford's Luxury division is and always has been Lincoln and they have some nice cars out. I also find it crazy how fords new car front ends look very Aston like.

That's GM's problem, they have to many brands and shit looks the same. Yukon,Tahoe,Excalade ALL look the same IMO they're hurting themselves by doing this. GM did right by ending Hummer and Pontiac as well.

the problem wasn't really that Ford got rid of dead weight

they just poorly mismanaged the brands of several vehicles

for example: just like GM has too many similar vehicles...................Ford was doing something even worse by sharing platforms between vehicles with starkly different brands

wtf was they thinking trying to share a platform of the Ford Mondeo with the X-type and thinking that shit wouldn't degrade Jaguar's brand at all?

GM has been getting away with brands that look similar because each truck brand serves a different market.............GM's real issue is its brands overseas, and their inability to manage the brands of its cars in the same way it does trucks

picking between an Escalade and Tahoe makes way more sense than picking between a Pontiac and an Oldsmobile when you consider the manufacturing support across similar vehicles

Agreed

 

[konceptjones]

cats in here agreeing that Hyundai still got brand issues

but don't think they need to set up a separate "luxury" division?

cats need to pay attention to branding issues like this..............cause this is typical of what businesses do to fuck up a good product

this is especially a big issue in the car industry, which is why it seems like many cars today are starting to look more and more like their competitors

and in the end it leaves consumers with less options to choose from IMO

common cause of car companies folding/having problems is due to poor branding and/or support from their manufacturing base

some examples: GM, Ford, Dodge (hell all american car companies for that matter haha), Mazda (SMH), and Jaguar

Here's the problem Hyundai faces with setting up a "Luxury" nameplate:

Honda was known as a company that made extremely reliable, if a bit boring cars. In the 80's, Honda's US offerings were limited to the Accord, CVCC/Civic, Prelude, and the CRX. Honda, however, had entered into a joint venture with Rover to develop a car in much the same way that GM and Toyota did the same earlier in the decade to develop the Nova/Corolla twins. The resulting car, the Legend, was sold under the Acura nameplate, and in order to give buyers a choice, they brought over the Honda Quint Integra, rebadged as the Acura Integra. (incidentally, the Rover variant of the legend, the Rover 800 was also sold in the US under the nameplate Sterling... Shouted out by Greg Nice on "Sometimes I Rhyme Slow").

Toyota did it successfully because they didn't have the stigma of "cheap car" and they had a shit ton of cars they could bring to the states under a luxury nameplate. They developed the LS400 as a new car specifically to create a flagship luxury model and a brand and took a few existing cars and added them to the mix. The SC series is the 3rd generation Toyota Soarer (first two gens not available in north america). The GS was based on a then two year old Toyota Aristo. The ES was famously based on the Camary, with the original ES250 looking so much like the Camary that it got clowned (Toyota took it off that platform for the 2nd gen, but it went back on the Camary platform for gen 3 onward).

Nissan, like Toyota, didn't have the stigma either. In fact, Nissan was known for performance oriented cars like the ZX series, Silvia/SX series (S12 200SX and up), NX series, and Maxima SE as well as the well known yet never released in America Skyline GT-R. Nissan. With Honda's Acura namplate doing well, and Toyota's Lexus on the horizon, they took their Nissan President, tweaked it and rebadged it as the Infiniti Q45, then they took the Nissan Leopard and rebadged it as the Infiniti M30. Playing one-up, they also took the M30 and chopped the top for a convertible variant which no other Japanese luxury make had at the time.

Mazda did attempt to create a line of cars under the nameplate "Amati" but it never got off the ground. I had to do a wikipedia search 'cause my memory is fuzzy on it, but apparently the Mazda Millenia was originally supposed to be an Amati car along with a coupe based on the RWD Mazda Cosmos coupe (which I remember from the 90's as a car I wished Mazda brought over to the US), and a V12 variant of the 929. It probably would have done well, but Mazda didn't think so and scrapped the whole plan.

Why this worked for these companies but won't for Hyundai is that not one of these companies have the "cheap" label attached. All were respected as companies that made well built, long lasting cars so no one batted an eye when they wanted to go upscale.

No one will trust a "luxury" Hyundai. Not for a looooon time.

 

[rage]

Nobody is buying a Hyundai over a BMW if they are priced similarly....it will NEVER happen. Hyundai (and KIA) have had MONSTER sales for the past 2 years.They will need a few more years of that before even thinking about launching another brand.

 

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