Why do people call the devil a "thief, liar, and murderer"?

[zzombie]

this dude is under six feet and under 200 pounds and is talking about he's physically strong lmao lolololo.

this dude is also too apprehensive about the future to have children yet is talking about he's mentally strong lmao lololol

LMAO.....I've never lost a fight before, you thought I was exaggerating about that in the GNS? I wasn't.

And people can be mentally tough and not want kids. Everyone knows what works best for them. Was Wilt Chamberlain mentally weak??

You probably never got in a real fight then. You are like 5'4 150 pounds, , Nigga who are your fighting??? I mean seriously.

Not wanting children doesn't make you weak it's your given reason that makes you mentally weak.

I've never been in a real fight?? LOL that's funny! I sent a 6'1, 220 pound dude to the hospital like 7 years ago, sent another tall guy to the hospital four years ago. Both needed surgery, and I smashed one of their bitches a few weeks later. I can say more but I don't want people thinking I'm trying to brag.

And my reason of not wanting the stress doesn't make me weak. I'm not into changing diapers or waking up early to bottle feed. If I'm weak, then so was Wilt Chamberlain, he said the same shit I said.

Lolololololoooooolololololi.....lmao And foh @ you expecting me to believe those lies. The only way you are doing that shit is with a sucker punch and even then the bigger guy has to be either an idiot or be 220 pounds of fat

Short guys stay living in fantasy worlds.

You told me in another thread that you didn't want kids because you worry about the world they will be coming into. That mindframe is what makes you weak.

AHAHAHAHAHA!!!!!!! You think only 6 footers can fight?? SMH, how tall are you fool. You must have never watched Animal Planet, there are plenty of small or short animals that make animals twice their size cry with pain. You must be a wack ass fighter, unlike me.

In fact I beat someone's ass so bad one year that when cops got called, they thought someone beat him with a tire iron. He was 6'0 tall at least. No lies, all truth, but keep denying that. You're only boosting my ego.

As far as my reasons for not wanting kids, you named my secondary reason. But the main reason is I want my freedom. Wanting freedom doesn't make someone weak, but your Bible god sure seems weak when it comes to saving its followers from getting their heads chopped off.

nah short people can fight but you are 150 pounds the odds of you knocking out someone 220 pounds and taller than you are not in your favor. you can probably do that to some fat ass out of shape guy or if you sucker punch some body but a straight up fight FUCK OUT OF HERE ducktales nigga ducktales.

last I checked I was 225 and I am 6'1 and not out of shape. You don't have to make children I am not calling you a bitch for that you don't want the responsibility that's fine. however your secondary reasons makes you a bitch because in essence what you are saying is that you are afraid.

 

[alissowack]

@allissowack

If Jesus's death for his beliefs comforts you and helps you deal with the world and yourself, okay no problem. I just don't understand why the Bible god turns into a massive killer or commands the deaths of others that don't want to pray or believe in it. If it wasn't for the Abrahamic god's support and co-signing of savage behavior at times, I wouldn't be as disgusted by it. The lies do not help either, I know we have a philosophical difference on whether it's lies Jesus tells or if it's, I don't know, whatever you say it is. At face value, he gave some misleading statements.

Mark 11:24

"Therefore I tell you, whatever you ask for in prayer, believe that you have received it, and it will be yours."



Ummm....that didn't happen in Nigeria with Boko Haram. Didn't work out in Libya. I've seen the prayers on Twitter for myself....prayers to Jesus didn't work those times. It didn't save him either.

And people are noticing how bad the world is getting in some ways, but it's not like THAT is gonna make people have more faith in the Abrahamic god. If anything, it makes many people doubt it more.

But in what context are you using Mark 11:24? Are you using it in light of what God has done already...or are you using God to serve as some genie who churns up wishes.

But I'll risk it and go ahead and answer. He's a genie in your perspective. He is suppose to just give you stuff on command. You don't care if He doesn't care how He does it or why He does it...or whether someone is just playing Him like...OK, I conned Him to do this once; let me see if I can get Him to do it again.

When I come to God in prayer, I come in light of what He has done through Jesus...which is more than enough. That sets my perspective on how I need to pray. My prayer in the difficult times of people's lives is that God grants them a spiritual wellbeing; that their souls are comforted and given strength to persevere. I try not to pray for circumstances to get better or worse for I don't know how God is using those circumstances in people's lives...for all I know, asking God to bring about wealth and prosperity may bring out the worst in a person.

Prayer did "work" for Jesus. Through his sacrifice, he gets to one day be reunited with the people who trusted in His Father's Will for their lives. Jesus didn't see his death as a setback. He saw it as something that needed to happen and in the way that it needed to happen.

Well he said what he said in the book, maybe the writers of the Bible misheard what he said. The words speak for itself, there are other passages very similar to that.

I find it interesting that his death wasn't seen as a setback but the prophecies weren't finished, and still haven't been after all this time. If you can let all that slide, good for you. You're more patient then me, cuz 2,000 plus years of prophecies not being fulfilled sounds like a hell of a setback.

...pretty much what Satan did to Jesus in the desert. Satan quotes Psalms 91:11-12 to Jesus as a reason to throw himself down. Jesus knew what that scripture said, but he knew what Satan was using it for...so he quotes Deuteronomy 6:16. You want Mark 11:24 to support your perspective on the Bible.

When Jesus was crucified, his followers saw it as a set back. They were under the impression that he would come and establish political rule over the land, but he didn't come for that. Again, according to the Bible, he did do what he set out to do...save mankind from sin. That's more than enough. Now if you are referring to Jesus's return...if it happens, then it does. But, that is not the focus. People in the Old Testament who knew of Jesus coming never got a chance to see him, but I doubt they were sitting around waiting for some type of confirmation.

Okay you're more trusting than I am lol. I've always been the skeptical, thinking type. The only kind of god I would worship would be a powerful one. It seems the kind of god you worship doesn't fit into my criteria, and likely never will.

As a strong man physically and mentally, I dislike weakness from so called higher powers. Jesus claiming it would answer prayers for its followers and being unable to do so in major cases is a huge sign of weakness for me.

Because the Bible god is unable to show its powers anymore, I can't in all honesty, even call it a god. A god is supposed to be powerful.....I don't see those characteristics in your god in these modern times. But if you see them, good for you. I'll continue my heathen lifestyle in a meanwhile.

I don't see how exactly what I posted has anything to do with me being more or less trusting than you. But, I have been trying to emphasize that trust is essential.

Now you are sounding like Israel in the Bible...that the only way they would feel like God is worthy of worship is that He displays power and might...and can cook according to you. If God (of the Bible) does exists, we are either for Him or against Him. There is no variety in how we want God to be. God is who God is. Besides, what good is power if you don't trust in anybody who has it? Power is not good just for the sake of having it.

Well that's the thing, you believe in the Bible god despite all the prophecies not being fulfilled after all this time, while I do not trust the Bible god. That's the trust I am speaking about. I don't really have a reason TO trust the Bible god, with all the broken promises via the UNFULFILLED prophecies. After 2,000 plus years, it had its chance.

And your god is who it is, that is true. But because of that, it's not really giving me and other heathens/ non-religious folk a reason to believe anything its holy books say. If a god can't prove its power after 2,000 plus years, and yet it was all active back in the day, why should I NOT believe that your god is dead or maybe never really existed? Trust needs to be a two way street. I can't put trust in something if it won't even show itself or its power.

A god is supposed to be powerful and act powerful. If it doesn't act like none of those things, I would feel silly praying or worshipping it. I would feel strange praying to such an impotent being, as I did back when I was Christian.

What is so "unfulfilling" about what Jesus did for the sins of mankind? That was why he came. That is why I believe. Again, if Jesus did not die and rise from the grave, then...as Paul would say...our faith is in vain. Not only that, God lied...especially to Adam and Eve after the fall make everything up to that moment meaningless. Why would God tell Noah to build an ark of tell Moses to deliver Israel out of Egypt...and everything else if it didn't get the world one step closer to Jesus's arrival into the world?

Trust is a two way street...but it doesn't mean that God hasn't first taken the initiative. You are under the impression that God hasn't done anything up to this point so it is on Him to show and prove when you ask. I can't help if that is what you think, but my hope is that you reconsider...for I believe that day is coming when you will get your wish; that someone will show and prove and you will be amazed, but he won't be God.

 

[kingblaze84]

this dude is under six feet and under 200 pounds and is talking about he's physically strong lmao lolololo.

this dude is also too apprehensive about the future to have children yet is talking about he's mentally strong lmao lololol

LMAO.....I've never lost a fight before, you thought I was exaggerating about that in the GNS? I wasn't.

And people can be mentally tough and not want kids. Everyone knows what works best for them. Was Wilt Chamberlain mentally weak??

You probably never got in a real fight then. You are like 5'4 150 pounds, , Nigga who are your fighting??? I mean seriously.

Not wanting children doesn't make you weak it's your given reason that makes you mentally weak.

I've never been in a real fight?? LOL that's funny! I sent a 6'1, 220 pound dude to the hospital like 7 years ago, sent another tall guy to the hospital four years ago. Both needed surgery, and I smashed one of their bitches a few weeks later. I can say more but I don't want people thinking I'm trying to brag.

And my reason of not wanting the stress doesn't make me weak. I'm not into changing diapers or waking up early to bottle feed. If I'm weak, then so was Wilt Chamberlain, he said the same shit I said.

Lolololololoooooolololololi.....lmao And foh @ you expecting me to believe those lies. The only way you are doing that shit is with a sucker punch and even then the bigger guy has to be either an idiot or be 220 pounds of fat

Short guys stay living in fantasy worlds.

You told me in another thread that you didn't want kids because you worry about the world they will be coming into. That mindframe is what makes you weak.

AHAHAHAHAHA!!!!!!! You think only 6 footers can fight?? SMH, how tall are you fool. You must have never watched Animal Planet, there are plenty of small or short animals that make animals twice their size cry with pain. You must be a wack ass fighter, unlike me.

In fact I beat someone's ass so bad one year that when cops got called, they thought someone beat him with a tire iron. He was 6'0 tall at least. No lies, all truth, but keep denying that. You're only boosting my ego.

As far as my reasons for not wanting kids, you named my secondary reason. But the main reason is I want my freedom. Wanting freedom doesn't make someone weak, but your Bible god sure seems weak when it comes to saving its followers from getting their heads chopped off.

nah short people can fight but you are 150 pounds the odds of you knocking out someone 220 pounds and taller than you are not in your favor. you can probably do that to some fat ass out of shape guy or if you sucker punch some body but a straight up fight FUCK OUT OF HERE ducktales nigga ducktales.

last I checked I was 225 and I am 6'1 and not out of shape. You don't have to make children I am not calling you a bitch for that you don't want the responsibility that's fine. however your secondary reasons makes you a bitch because in essence what you are saying is that you are afraid.

Far from ducktales, but my true stories are so incredible, you think they're fake LOLOLOLOLOLOL

Thanks again for the ego boost. I don't know why you keep saying this, but thanks anyway. And I've never had a fight against a fat guy.

And my reasons for not wanting kids are fine with me, and actually have nothing to do with the thread anyway. Nice derail tactic though, considering you couldn't prove your other points.

 

[kingblaze84]

@alissowack

That last sentence was hilarious lol. Someone will show and prove itself to me someday, and it won't be god?

Maybe so, but who is to say that the apostles actually saw Jesus coming back from the dead? Maybe they saw a ghost or alien that fooled them as well. Or maybe Peter had a weird dream and took it as Jesus coming back. After all, it's not like Jesus is walking around Times Square or Fordham Road now. See, it's easy for anyone to say things like that. But hey, anything is possible. I just hope whatever pops up on me someday doesn't do it when I'm taking a shower. That would scare the hell out of me.

 

[zzombie]

this dude is under six feet and under 200 pounds and is talking about he's physically strong lmao lolololo.

this dude is also too apprehensive about the future to have children yet is talking about he's mentally strong lmao lololol

LMAO.....I've never lost a fight before, you thought I was exaggerating about that in the GNS? I wasn't.

And people can be mentally tough and not want kids. Everyone knows what works best for them. Was Wilt Chamberlain mentally weak??

You probably never got in a real fight then. You are like 5'4 150 pounds, , Nigga who are your fighting??? I mean seriously.

Not wanting children doesn't make you weak it's your given reason that makes you mentally weak.

I've never been in a real fight?? LOL that's funny! I sent a 6'1, 220 pound dude to the hospital like 7 years ago, sent another tall guy to the hospital four years ago. Both needed surgery, and I smashed one of their bitches a few weeks later. I can say more but I don't want people thinking I'm trying to brag.

And my reason of not wanting the stress doesn't make me weak. I'm not into changing diapers or waking up early to bottle feed. If I'm weak, then so was Wilt Chamberlain, he said the same shit I said.

Lolololololoooooolololololi.....lmao And foh @ you expecting me to believe those lies. The only way you are doing that shit is with a sucker punch and even then the bigger guy has to be either an idiot or be 220 pounds of fat

Short guys stay living in fantasy worlds.

You told me in another thread that you didn't want kids because you worry about the world they will be coming into. That mindframe is what makes you weak.

AHAHAHAHAHA!!!!!!! You think only 6 footers can fight?? SMH, how tall are you fool. You must have never watched Animal Planet, there are plenty of small or short animals that make animals twice their size cry with pain. You must be a wack ass fighter, unlike me.

In fact I beat someone's ass so bad one year that when cops got called, they thought someone beat him with a tire iron. He was 6'0 tall at least. No lies, all truth, but keep denying that. You're only boosting my ego.

As far as my reasons for not wanting kids, you named my secondary reason. But the main reason is I want my freedom. Wanting freedom doesn't make someone weak, but your Bible god sure seems weak when it comes to saving its followers from getting their heads chopped off.

nah short people can fight but you are 150 pounds the odds of you knocking out someone 220 pounds and taller than you are not in your favor. you can probably do that to some fat ass out of shape guy or if you sucker punch some body but a straight up fight FUCK OUT OF HERE ducktales nigga ducktales.

last I checked I was 225 and I am 6'1 and not out of shape. You don't have to make children I am not calling you a bitch for that you don't want the responsibility that's fine. however your secondary reasons makes you a bitch because in essence what you are saying is that you are afraid.

Far from ducktales, but my true stories are so incredible, you think they're fake LOLOLOLOLOLOL

Thanks again for the ego boost. I don't know why you keep saying this, but thanks anyway. And I've never had a fight against a fat guy.

And my reasons for not wanting kids are fine with me, and actually have nothing to do with the thread anyway. Nice derail tactic though, considering you couldn't prove your other points.

I actually did prove my other points but you see you are stubborn, no matter what anyone says to you, you have made up your mind not to except.

The irony of our whole discussion is that you an the perfect example of god giving up someone to their own delusions and their rejection of truth.

 

[kingblaze84]

this dude is under six feet and under 200 pounds and is talking about he's physically strong lmao lolololo.

this dude is also too apprehensive about the future to have children yet is talking about he's mentally strong lmao lololol

LMAO.....I've never lost a fight before, you thought I was exaggerating about that in the GNS? I wasn't.

And people can be mentally tough and not want kids. Everyone knows what works best for them. Was Wilt Chamberlain mentally weak??

You probably never got in a real fight then. You are like 5'4 150 pounds, , Nigga who are your fighting??? I mean seriously.

Not wanting children doesn't make you weak it's your given reason that makes you mentally weak.

I've never been in a real fight?? LOL that's funny! I sent a 6'1, 220 pound dude to the hospital like 7 years ago, sent another tall guy to the hospital four years ago. Both needed surgery, and I smashed one of their bitches a few weeks later. I can say more but I don't want people thinking I'm trying to brag.

And my reason of not wanting the stress doesn't make me weak. I'm not into changing diapers or waking up early to bottle feed. If I'm weak, then so was Wilt Chamberlain, he said the same shit I said.

Lolololololoooooolololololi.....lmao And foh @ you expecting me to believe those lies. The only way you are doing that shit is with a sucker punch and even then the bigger guy has to be either an idiot or be 220 pounds of fat

Short guys stay living in fantasy worlds.

You told me in another thread that you didn't want kids because you worry about the world they will be coming into. That mindframe is what makes you weak.

AHAHAHAHAHA!!!!!!! You think only 6 footers can fight?? SMH, how tall are you fool. You must have never watched Animal Planet, there are plenty of small or short animals that make animals twice their size cry with pain. You must be a wack ass fighter, unlike me.

In fact I beat someone's ass so bad one year that when cops got called, they thought someone beat him with a tire iron. He was 6'0 tall at least. No lies, all truth, but keep denying that. You're only boosting my ego.

As far as my reasons for not wanting kids, you named my secondary reason. But the main reason is I want my freedom. Wanting freedom doesn't make someone weak, but your Bible god sure seems weak when it comes to saving its followers from getting their heads chopped off.

nah short people can fight but you are 150 pounds the odds of you knocking out someone 220 pounds and taller than you are not in your favor. you can probably do that to some fat ass out of shape guy or if you sucker punch some body but a straight up fight FUCK OUT OF HERE ducktales nigga ducktales.

last I checked I was 225 and I am 6'1 and not out of shape. You don't have to make children I am not calling you a bitch for that you don't want the responsibility that's fine. however your secondary reasons makes you a bitch because in essence what you are saying is that you are afraid.

Far from ducktales, but my true stories are so incredible, you think they're fake LOLOLOLOLOLOL

Thanks again for the ego boost. I don't know why you keep saying this, but thanks anyway. And I've never had a fight against a fat guy.

And my reasons for not wanting kids are fine with me, and actually have nothing to do with the thread anyway. Nice derail tactic though, considering you couldn't prove your other points.

I actually did prove my other points but you see you are stubborn, no matter what anyone says to you, you have made up your mind not to except.

The irony of our whole discussion is that you an the perfect example of god giving up someone to their own delusions and their rejection of truth.

Well the irony of what you said is that those doubts started when I was a Christian. The Bible god sends delusions of doubt to even Christians? How very strange. I guess it gave up on the questions I had. Oh well.

 

[zzombie]

this dude is under six feet and under 200 pounds and is talking about he's physically strong lmao lolololo.

this dude is also too apprehensive about the future to have children yet is talking about he's mentally strong lmao lololol

LMAO.....I've never lost a fight before, you thought I was exaggerating about that in the GNS? I wasn't.

And people can be mentally tough and not want kids. Everyone knows what works best for them. Was Wilt Chamberlain mentally weak??

You probably never got in a real fight then. You are like 5'4 150 pounds, , Nigga who are your fighting??? I mean seriously.

Not wanting children doesn't make you weak it's your given reason that makes you mentally weak.

I've never been in a real fight?? LOL that's funny! I sent a 6'1, 220 pound dude to the hospital like 7 years ago, sent another tall guy to the hospital four years ago. Both needed surgery, and I smashed one of their bitches a few weeks later. I can say more but I don't want people thinking I'm trying to brag.

And my reason of not wanting the stress doesn't make me weak. I'm not into changing diapers or waking up early to bottle feed. If I'm weak, then so was Wilt Chamberlain, he said the same shit I said.

Lolololololoooooolololololi.....lmao And foh @ you expecting me to believe those lies. The only way you are doing that shit is with a sucker punch and even then the bigger guy has to be either an idiot or be 220 pounds of fat

Short guys stay living in fantasy worlds.

You told me in another thread that you didn't want kids because you worry about the world they will be coming into. That mindframe is what makes you weak.

AHAHAHAHAHA!!!!!!! You think only 6 footers can fight?? SMH, how tall are you fool. You must have never watched Animal Planet, there are plenty of small or short animals that make animals twice their size cry with pain. You must be a wack ass fighter, unlike me.

In fact I beat someone's ass so bad one year that when cops got called, they thought someone beat him with a tire iron. He was 6'0 tall at least. No lies, all truth, but keep denying that. You're only boosting my ego.

As far as my reasons for not wanting kids, you named my secondary reason. But the main reason is I want my freedom. Wanting freedom doesn't make someone weak, but your Bible god sure seems weak when it comes to saving its followers from getting their heads chopped off.

nah short people can fight but you are 150 pounds the odds of you knocking out someone 220 pounds and taller than you are not in your favor. you can probably do that to some fat ass out of shape guy or if you sucker punch some body but a straight up fight FUCK OUT OF HERE ducktales nigga ducktales.

last I checked I was 225 and I am 6'1 and not out of shape. You don't have to make children I am not calling you a bitch for that you don't want the responsibility that's fine. however your secondary reasons makes you a bitch because in essence what you are saying is that you are afraid.

Far from ducktales, but my true stories are so incredible, you think they're fake LOLOLOLOLOLOL

Thanks again for the ego boost. I don't know why you keep saying this, but thanks anyway. And I've never had a fight against a fat guy.

And my reasons for not wanting kids are fine with me, and actually have nothing to do with the thread anyway. Nice derail tactic though, considering you couldn't prove your other points.

I actually did prove my other points but you see you are stubborn, no matter what anyone says to you, you have made up your mind not to except.

The irony of our whole discussion is that you an the perfect example of god giving up someone to their own delusions and their rejection of truth.

Well the irony of what you said is that those doubts started when I was a Christian. The Bible god sends delusions of doubt to even Christians? How very strange. I guess it gave up on the questions I had. Oh well.

God doesn't give up people people to their delusions unless that's what they truly want.

Christians have doubts about many things in their lives the whole point is to exercise faith so that God can teach you and prove his word to you..

 

[alissowack]

@alissowack

That last sentence was hilarious lol. Someone will show and prove itself to me someday, and it won't be god?

Maybe so, but who is to say that the apostles actually saw Jesus coming back from the dead? Maybe they saw a ghost or alien that fooled them as well. Or maybe Peter had a weird dream and took it as Jesus coming back. After all, it's not like Jesus is walking around Times Square or Fordham Road now. See, it's easy for anyone to say things like that. But hey, anything is possible. I just hope whatever pops up on me someday doesn't do it when I'm taking a shower. That would scare the hell out of me.

It sounds backwards...until you consider Satan. People have the impression that Satan's deception is obvious. He knows how to be on his best behavior. He can masquerade as an angel of light. If that day comes, he will do all of the things you wish for the sake of keeping you from knowing the truth about God.

Paul understood the weight of the claim by addressing how much of the Bible hinges on the death and resurrection of Jesus. If it didn't happen, then the Bible becomes worthless and his sacrifice for the cause is in vain. He didn't act as a person aimlessly trying to convince somebody of something he seen.

 

[kingblaze84]

@alissowack

That last sentence was hilarious lol. Someone will show and prove itself to me someday, and it won't be god?

Maybe so, but who is to say that the apostles actually saw Jesus coming back from the dead? Maybe they saw a ghost or alien that fooled them as well. Or maybe Peter had a weird dream and took it as Jesus coming back. After all, it's not like Jesus is walking around Times Square or Fordham Road now. See, it's easy for anyone to say things like that. But hey, anything is possible. I just hope whatever pops up on me someday doesn't do it when I'm taking a shower. That would scare the hell out of me.

It sounds backwards...until you consider Satan. People have the impression that Satan's deception is obvious. He knows how to be on his best behavior. He can masquerade as an angel of light. If that day comes, he will do all of the things you wish for the sake of keeping you from knowing the truth about God.

Paul understood the weight of the claim by addressing how much of the Bible hinges on the death and resurrection of Jesus. If it didn't happen, then the Bible becomes worthless and his sacrifice for the cause is in vain. He didn't act as a person aimlessly trying to convince somebody of something he seen.

Lol, well anything is possible. Maybe Satan will pop up to me someday, but maybe Zeus will too. Or maybe Hercules. Or the ghost of Biggie Smalls, there are all kinds of things that could pop up on me. It may or may not be a devil but I'm hoping if something powerful appears to me someday, it can take the questions I'm bound to have.

Paul did seemed convinced of what he saw, and he claims he saw Jesus. But I've seen people on the train who claimed to have spoken to god too, and they describe a different god then the one Paul spoke of. Paul probably did see something, but whatever he saw was unable to save him during his day of judgment. Zeus seemed to be a little more powerful then that.

Are you aware of the many miracles of Zeus? I've been impressed reading about the stories of him saving his followers, unlike some other gods.

 

[alissowack]

@kingblaze84 Miracles don't mean anything if it doesn't serve a higher purpose. There were people that Jesus raised from the dead before he ever was yet they wasn't as influential. Paul seeing the resurrected Jesus did more to answer the question "why" instead of "how". It did more to connect the dots than some display of supernatural power. If Jesus's Death and Resurrection didn't happen, there would be more at stake than just being called delusional. It would discredit all that Bible has said about Jesus and that is what Paul understood. There wouldn't be a need to preach the gospel because the "good news" didn't happen.

 

[kingblaze84]

@kingblaze84 Miracles don't mean anything if it doesn't serve a higher purpose. There were people that Jesus raised from the dead before he ever was yet they wasn't as influential. Paul seeing the resurrected Jesus did more to answer the question "why" instead of "how". It did more to connect the dots than some display of supernatural power. If Jesus's Death and Resurrection didn't happen, there would be more at stake than just being called delusional. It would discredit all that Bible has said about Jesus and that is what Paul understood. There wouldn't be a need to preach the gospel because the "good news" didn't happen.

Zeus was worshipped for over 3,000 years though, he was very influential for his time. Even Jesus hasn't been worshipped that long, and Rah and Horus were worshipped for even longer then that. Same with Shiva and Krishna, Hindu gods that have close to a billion followers.

It's possible your Jesus "rose" from the dead, but it's not the first or only being to have died for the sins of others. Krishna died for our sins too. Many people also saw Krishna rise from the dead. Krishna performed probably even more miracles then Jesus did, and his purpose was to be a savior too.

Jesus isn't really unique, there have been much more powerful gods. Imagine someone nailing Hercules to a cross. As you can see, I'm more impressed with powerful gods. Your god doesn't impress me, too weak for my taste. It seems too helpless.

 

[alissowack]

@kingblaze84 Miracles don't mean anything if it doesn't serve a higher purpose. There were people that Jesus raised from the dead before he ever was yet they wasn't as influential. Paul seeing the resurrected Jesus did more to answer the question "why" instead of "how". It did more to connect the dots than some display of supernatural power. If Jesus's Death and Resurrection didn't happen, there would be more at stake than just being called delusional. It would discredit all that Bible has said about Jesus and that is what Paul understood. There wouldn't be a need to preach the gospel because the "good news" didn't happen.

Zeus was worshipped for over 3,000 years though, he was very influential for his time. Even Jesus hasn't been worshipped that long, and Rah and Horus were worshipped for even longer then that. Same with Shiva and Krishna, Hindu gods that have close to a billion followers.

It's possible your Jesus "rose" from the dead, but it's not the first or only being to have died for the sins of others. Krishna died for our sins too. Many people also saw Krishna rise from the dead. Krishna performed probably even more miracles then Jesus did, and his purpose was to be a savior too.

Jesus isn't really unique, there have been much more powerful gods. Imagine someone nailing Hercules to a cross. As you can see, I'm more impressed with powerful gods. Your god doesn't impress me, too weak for my taste. It seems too helpless.

But my question is why would anybody want to believe that Jesus rose from the dead? I've already said that his death and resurrection is not unique in my last post by saying there were others before him. It is believed that his death and resurrection served a higher purpose.

Most people worship deities because they believe they greatly influence their interactions with certain aspects of life. The "miraculous-ness" of their attributes was just in the details. You seem to only be interested in the how good the magic show need to be in order to believe. Some magicians are usually good about letting you know if it is a trick they are performing because they understand they are doing it to entertain the masses; not to save the world.

 

[soul rattler]

This is why salvation is such an idiotic concept.

G-d puts man in a position to fail, knowing they would surely fail, punishes them for failing, makes an elaborate plan to save SOME of them, and expects GRATITUDE for it?

Fuck that. If the police planted coke on you then locked you up on drug charges, only to let you go months later, would you be greatful to them? If they claimed to have done it for your good, would you love them for granting you the experience? If you had a lawyer that was willing to fight the charges on your behalf, would you blame them for your predicament?

I think the police example is a bad one. Cops planting drugs on somebody means the accused didn't have a choice in the matter. The cop's intentions were to find someone guilty whether they were guilty of something or not. I doubt cops bust people to teach them some valuable life lesson. That just goes against how justice system is suppose to work. Now if I was falsely accused, I would feel some type of way about it, but my hope is that I can step back and see that it is in our sinful nature to lie on each other.

Being in a position to fail is totally different than failing. Jesus was in a desert yet he chose God. You still have a choice to either do what's right or wrong.

I was referring to humanity and the fall of man. Adam and Eve didn't choose to be created, nor could they have understood the gravity of punishment that resulted from eating from the tree. In that regard, their hands we're tied.

Their hands were not tied. Adam and Eve didn't need to know the gravity of the consequence. They just need to trust God with the things He said to do or not do. However, they placed their trust in what the serpent had to say.

What does it mean to be told you'll die when you have no idea what death is?

If I say, "don't post in this thread again or you'll vlopadorp", you won't even know what to truly make of it because you have no idea what "vlopadorp" is.

But what does that have to do with trusting God? Adam and Eve may not have known what death was, but they should have known in their time in the garden that God knew what's best for them. He hadn't done anything to betray their trust. But the serpent did.

And in regards to that "vlopadorp"...if I knew you to be trustworthy; that you mean well to all those you gave sound advice to, I would take your word for it even if I don't know what that word is. But, I don't trust you...and you shouldn't trust me either. I would want to know.

Again, and I said this before, it has nothing to do with trust. The serpent didn't do anything for them to distrust it either so trust is a non-factor.

There is, however, the responsibility that goes along with being an all powerful creator. You don't put your creation in a position to fail and then punish them when they do. If it were a parent and child, we would call the parent unfit.

 

[soul rattler]

Oh and I almost forgot to throw this little nugget out there.....

Satan and the devil? Two different entities. They aren't interchangeable names or titles. Neither is Lucifer by the way. So, I ask again, what lies has the DEVIL told?

 

[soul rattler]

Better question ts would've been...............how did the devil get in the garden in the first place?

The devil was never in the garden, nor did the devil exist at that time.

 

[soul rattler]

Better question ts would've been...............how did the devil get in the garden in the first place?

The devil was never in the garden, nor did the devil exist at that time.

The "devil" is a name given to evil. The snake represented evil. The garden represented heaven on earth.

Now why would God let evil in heaven? Some say God let "Us" have a choice to fuck up by our own choices.

The problem with your claim is that evil hadn't existed yet. The devil hadn't come into existence when man first sinned.

The serpent was just a serpent, not an immortal entity in disguise. Genesis simply described it as a cunning creature, nothing more.

 

[alissowack]

This is why salvation is such an idiotic concept.

G-d puts man in a position to fail, knowing they would surely fail, punishes them for failing, makes an elaborate plan to save SOME of them, and expects GRATITUDE for it?

Fuck that. If the police planted coke on you then locked you up on drug charges, only to let you go months later, would you be greatful to them? If they claimed to have done it for your good, would you love them for granting you the experience? If you had a lawyer that was willing to fight the charges on your behalf, would you blame them for your predicament?

I think the police example is a bad one. Cops planting drugs on somebody means the accused didn't have a choice in the matter. The cop's intentions were to find someone guilty whether they were guilty of something or not. I doubt cops bust people to teach them some valuable life lesson. That just goes against how justice system is suppose to work. Now if I was falsely accused, I would feel some type of way about it, but my hope is that I can step back and see that it is in our sinful nature to lie on each other.

Being in a position to fail is totally different than failing. Jesus was in a desert yet he chose God. You still have a choice to either do what's right or wrong.

I was referring to humanity and the fall of man. Adam and Eve didn't choose to be created, nor could they have understood the gravity of punishment that resulted from eating from the tree. In that regard, their hands we're tied.

Their hands were not tied. Adam and Eve didn't need to know the gravity of the consequence. They just need to trust God with the things He said to do or not do. However, they placed their trust in what the serpent had to say.

What does it mean to be told you'll die when you have no idea what death is?

If I say, "don't post in this thread again or you'll vlopadorp", you won't even know what to truly make of it because you have no idea what "vlopadorp" is.

But what does that have to do with trusting God? Adam and Eve may not have known what death was, but they should have known in their time in the garden that God knew what's best for them. He hadn't done anything to betray their trust. But the serpent did.

And in regards to that "vlopadorp"...if I knew you to be trustworthy; that you mean well to all those you gave sound advice to, I would take your word for it even if I don't know what that word is. But, I don't trust you...and you shouldn't trust me either. I would want to know.

Again, and I said this before, it has nothing to do with trust. The serpent didn't do anything for them to distrust it either so trust is a non-factor.

There is, however, the responsibility that goes along with being an all powerful creator. You don't put your creation in a position to fail and then punish them when they do. If it were a parent and child, we would call the parent unfit.

But the serpent did do something. This is the thing about deception...it's goal is to not make you aware that you are being lied to. We do this to each other everyday and some of us are living our lives based on a lie. Yet, you think the serpent didn't have this in mind when getting Adam and Eve to eat from the tree. The serpent wanted to use their trust for selfish gain.

When the Bible says that God is all-powerful, it's not saying so as a "job requirement". It is saying so to invite trust; to establish relationship.

 

[soul rattler]

This is why salvation is such an idiotic concept.

G-d puts man in a position to fail, knowing they would surely fail, punishes them for failing, makes an elaborate plan to save SOME of them, and expects GRATITUDE for it?

Fuck that. If the police planted coke on you then locked you up on drug charges, only to let you go months later, would you be greatful to them? If they claimed to have done it for your good, would you love them for granting you the experience? If you had a lawyer that was willing to fight the charges on your behalf, would you blame them for your predicament?

I think the police example is a bad one. Cops planting drugs on somebody means the accused didn't have a choice in the matter. The cop's intentions were to find someone guilty whether they were guilty of something or not. I doubt cops bust people to teach them some valuable life lesson. That just goes against how justice system is suppose to work. Now if I was falsely accused, I would feel some type of way about it, but my hope is that I can step back and see that it is in our sinful nature to lie on each other.

Being in a position to fail is totally different than failing. Jesus was in a desert yet he chose God. You still have a choice to either do what's right or wrong.

I was referring to humanity and the fall of man. Adam and Eve didn't choose to be created, nor could they have understood the gravity of punishment that resulted from eating from the tree. In that regard, their hands we're tied.

Their hands were not tied. Adam and Eve didn't need to know the gravity of the consequence. They just need to trust God with the things He said to do or not do. However, they placed their trust in what the serpent had to say.

What does it mean to be told you'll die when you have no idea what death is?

If I say, "don't post in this thread again or you'll vlopadorp", you won't even know what to truly make of it because you have no idea what "vlopadorp" is.

But what does that have to do with trusting God? Adam and Eve may not have known what death was, but they should have known in their time in the garden that God knew what's best for them. He hadn't done anything to betray their trust. But the serpent did.

And in regards to that "vlopadorp"...if I knew you to be trustworthy; that you mean well to all those you gave sound advice to, I would take your word for it even if I don't know what that word is. But, I don't trust you...and you shouldn't trust me either. I would want to know.

Again, and I said this before, it has nothing to do with trust. The serpent didn't do anything for them to distrust it either so trust is a non-factor.

There is, however, the responsibility that goes along with being an all powerful creator. You don't put your creation in a position to fail and then punish them when they do. If it were a parent and child, we would call the parent unfit.

But the serpent did do something. This is the thing about deception...it's goal is to not make you aware that you are being lied to. We do this to each other everyday and some of us are living our lives based on a lie. Yet, you think the serpent didn't have this in mind when getting Adam and Eve to eat from the tree. The serpent wanted to use their trust for selfish gain.

When the Bible says that God is all-powerful, it's not saying so as a "job requirement". It is saying so to invite trust; to establish relationship.

What gain??? What does a random serpent have to gain from getting man to disobey an all powerful entity?

Since you want to talk about trust, how about Adam and Eve trusting G-d not to set them up for the okiedoke? Trusting G-d not to give them free will and the opportunity to get kicked out of paradise, live in misery, and die physically? There was no salvation, no holy ghost, no blessings. Just knowing that they had everything and lost it over some fucking fruit.

 

[kingblaze84]

@kingblaze84 Miracles don't mean anything if it doesn't serve a higher purpose. There were people that Jesus raised from the dead before he ever was yet they wasn't as influential. Paul seeing the resurrected Jesus did more to answer the question "why" instead of "how". It did more to connect the dots than some display of supernatural power. If Jesus's Death and Resurrection didn't happen, there would be more at stake than just being called delusional. It would discredit all that Bible has said about Jesus and that is what Paul understood. There wouldn't be a need to preach the gospel because the "good news" didn't happen.

Zeus was worshipped for over 3,000 years though, he was very influential for his time. Even Jesus hasn't been worshipped that long, and Rah and Horus were worshipped for even longer then that. Same with Shiva and Krishna, Hindu gods that have close to a billion followers.

It's possible your Jesus "rose" from the dead, but it's not the first or only being to have died for the sins of others. Krishna died for our sins too. Many people also saw Krishna rise from the dead. Krishna performed probably even more miracles then Jesus did, and his purpose was to be a savior too.

Jesus isn't really unique, there have been much more powerful gods. Imagine someone nailing Hercules to a cross. As you can see, I'm more impressed with powerful gods. Your god doesn't impress me, too weak for my taste. It seems too helpless.

But my question is why would anybody want to believe that Jesus rose from the dead? I've already said that his death and resurrection is not unique in my last post by saying there were others before him. It is believed that his death and resurrection served a higher purpose.

Most people worship deities because they believe they greatly influence their interactions with certain aspects of life. The "miraculous-ness" of their attributes was just in the details. You seem to only be interested in the how good the magic show need to be in order to believe. Some magicians are usually good about letting you know if it is a trick they are performing because they understand they are doing it to entertain the masses; not to save the world.

Why would people want to believe Jesus rose from the dead? Same reason many people believe Krishna, Horus, Dionysius and others rose from the dead. I'm sure Jesus was a charismatic person, assuming he was actually a real, single person. Several people called themselves Christ back in the day. People often attach supernatural abilities with charismatic people, for a long time some people thought even the Roman emperor Nero rose from the dead.

And Jesus didn't save the world though, I see homeless, struggling, handicapped, and starving people on my way to work everyday. I also see them on my way coming home from work, mostly in Manhattan, supposedly the richest city in America. Jesus didn't really save anything, unless you believe Jesus is saving people in the afterlife. He may inspire people, which is fine, but Bill Gates and Thomas Edison can inspire people too lol. Plenty of gods in history said they need to be believed in to be saved in the afterlife.

I don't need to see a magic show exactly, I can see that watching David Blaine. But I don't see any evidence the Bible god is even a god. It doesn't act like a god now, that's for sure. I see nature at work, but nature is far from loving, caring, and compassionate. Word to the spider I saw eating a fly alive yesterday.

 

[kingblaze84]

Oh and I almost forgot to throw this little nugget out there.....

Satan and the devil? Two different entities. They aren't interchangeable names or titles. Neither is Lucifer by the way. So, I ask again, what lies has the DEVIL told?

I've noticed how easy it is to point out the MANY lies and crimes against humanity that have come from the Bible "god" (it's a phony god, not a real one) but I have yet to see any lies the devil has told. Very telling. One reason I had to stop being Christian, I couldn't take the double speak and phony bullshit anymore.