Why do/don't you believe in god?

[alissowack]

@maestro_lungs. On the one hand, you say that Nature has stopped some people from believing in God. Yet, in the same post you question whether I think Nature is "mom". Why would you think nature cares to stop or start anything? Why speak up on what nature, according to you, will eventually do to mankind anyway? If Nature does what it does, then you don't have to need to "force" it or defend it.

 

[maestro_lungs]

@maestro_lungs. On the one hand, you say that Nature has stopped some people from believing in God. Yet, in the same post you question whether I think Nature is "mom". Why would you think nature cares to stop or start anything? Why speak up on what nature, according to you, will eventually do to mankind anyway? If Nature does what it does, then you don't have to need to "force" it or defend it.

Try to Stay in Context. When I Say Nature Has Stopped some Believing in God. I Mean The Study of it. As We Learn More, We Discard The Myths that Religion has Giving us on God in Regards to Nature! Never said Nothing about Nature Caring to stop or Start Something or What it'll do to Mankind. It's not a Being with Emotions. I Was asking You if You Thought it was!

 

[maestro_lungs]

Nigga don't talk down or question my prerogative, I simply just stated why I choose to believe in God.

Whoa Whoa Fella, Lotta Heat Coming From that Side of The Screen...lol! If You Don't Want Your Beliefs Challenged, Maybe you Should keep Them to Yourself! You Put Your Reason on Why You Believe & I Challenged it as Invalid. You Basically Said You Believe cause of Your Personal Feeling or Experience. I Don't See that as a Reason to Believe. If I Was White & I Hated Blacks cause of a Personal Feeling or Experience, Would That Make it Right?

 

[BlackxChild]

Eveyone has the right to feel how they want it doesnt prevent it from being stupid though.

 

[maestro_lungs]

Nigga, there U go with your black & white logic.... how is my personal feelings & experiences invalid to my beliefs if that'z what influenced & formulated my perspective. I responded solely to the thread title & u responded to me, lke U looking to attack someone else's beliefs because of your own insecurities. I don't give a damn what you "don't see as a reason to believe" in God. The answers to this topic are completely subjective & it's MY outlook on life. Your last sentence has no place in any reasonable argument, 'cause everyone has the right to feel what they want if there is a root to that sentiment.

It's Not Evidence. If You Let Your Personal Experience & Personal Feelings Guide all Your Judgments where would You be? For starters: Lots of people have personal experiences of God. And those experiences are wildly different. Even completely contradictory. Some people experience a loving God who only wants us to be happy and take care of one another -- others experience a vengeful God who rigidly judges every petty detail of our lives. Some people experience a nebulous World-Soul God, a fluid spirit animating all life -- others experience a personal God, with a distinct personality and strong opinions and feelings. (Opinions etc. which, again, vary wildly from believer to believer.) Etc. The feelings people have in their hearts about God are almost as varied as the people having them. And these feelings change significantly throughout history. If all these people were perceiving the same God... why would that be true? I Gotta a Right to Feel How I Want or Believe what I Want, But Not in Public Forum & Not Expect to be Challenged. If I Said I Believe in Smurfs, You'd Want Some Kind of Evidence Other Than a Personal Experience or Feeling from Me or You'd Dismiss me as Crazy! What Make's This Different? I Ain't Attack you by Mentioning How I Thought Your Reasons for Believing was Basically a Personal Feelings. I Don't even Know You. I Attacked Your Belief as Absurd & Not Enough of a Reason or Evidence to say you Believe. I Think I Covered Why The Heart & Mind are not to be Completely Trusted. That is Why Science has The Scientific Method to Minimize those Mistakes.

 

[maestro_lungs]

Get a grip of yourself homeboy, I never expressed my reasons as evidence in any of my posts. What is the title of the post? There is no evidence to disprove that God does not exist neither.

The problem with u & people with your thinking is that you think that overt evidence is the end-all-& be-all of truth. I'm not a christian, a muslim, and most definitely not an atheist, but I CHOOSE believe in God.

U think everything has to be static and quantifiable for it to be consistent with truth and evidence. I can use science to prove that you are lacking in understanding just like those same scientists are, & along with the rest of human beings the world.

At the sub atomic particle level, it is possible for any given particle to be in two places within space at the same time. Shit is just weird & flat out "absurd" at that plane, & all conventional laws of physics are utterly useless & inapplicable. So what can you tell me?

If my belief is "absurd", so be it it. All truths are parallel.

This is True, There is No Evidence to Disprove or Prove the Existence of Anything. You Just Go with the Best Case Scenario as You do with anything in life. The fact that we can't have 100% certainty doesn't mean that we can't assess which ideas are more or less likely. We can't know for 100% certain that the earth orbits the sun -- it could all be some horrible Satanic deception, or space aliens playing a practical joke -- but we can be pretty darned sure that it's very likely indeed. Reasonable plausibility, supported by carefully gathered and rigorously tested positive evidence, is the objective. And there is no reason to apply the "Reasonable plausibility supported by evidence" standard to the belief in God. It Has Nothing to do with Being Absolute as You're trying to Make what I'm saying out to be!

 

[maestro_lungs]

I Understand The Limits of Science, But It's The Best We Have for Determining What is Real & What is Not in The Real World. I Totally Agree The Human Mind is Light Years Beyond Science, But It Has MAJOR Flaws in Determining what's Real. Science Still has Yrs Before it Fully Understands the Brain. Neuro Science is Still Young, But I Refuse to say What we Don't Understand yet must be the work of God with the Brain or Anything in Life. We Don't do That with anything in Life. What is Not Revealed will be in Due Time.

 

[maestro_lungs]

I have seen a lot of arguments for the existence of God. And they all boil down to one or more of the following:

The argument from authority. (Example: "God exists because the Bible says God exists.")

The argument from personal experience. (Example: "God exists because I feel in my heart that God exists.")

The argument that religion shouldn't have to logically defend its claims. (Example: "God is an entity that cannot be proven by reason or evidence.")

Or the redefining of God into an abstract principle -- so abstract that it can't be argued against, but also so abstract that it scarcely deserves the name God. (Example: "God is love.")

And all these arguments are incredibly weak.

Sacred books and authorities can be mistaken. I have yet to see a sacred book that doesn't have any mistakes. (The Bible, for just one example, is shot full of them.) And the feelings in people's hearts can definitely be mistaken. They are mistaken, demonstrably so, much of the time. Instinct and intuition play an important part of human understanding and experience... but they should never be treated as the final word on a subject.

 

[maestro_lungs]

Well my argument would be from my personal conscious/subconscious experiences, supplemented with the experiences and sentiments expressed to me by my loved ones.

It's not a left-brain process of reasoning.

Hell, even Einstein and other geniuses of ancient & modern believe in a higher power personified as God.

I Understand That. I'm Just saying, You Wouldn't Let me use that as Evidence if I Was Trying to Prove The Smurfs are Real, Why Would you Let it be Evidence in this Situation? Far as Einstein & Other Intelligent People in History. This is True that There are Scientist who Believe in God, But That Number is Low like 40% & When you get to Life Sciences Like Biology. The Number who Believe is Less than 10% & Einstein Spoke on Many Occasions of Him Not Believing in a Personal God & Was Agnostic at Best!

 

[maestro_lungs]

I Wanna Clear this up...How is Talking or Questioning Any One's Belief or Religion Seen as Some Kind of Attack on the Person?

 

[alissowack]

@maestro_lungs. On the one hand, you say that Nature has stopped some people from believing in God. Yet, in the same post you question whether I think Nature is "mom". Why would you think nature cares to stop or start anything? Why speak up on what nature, according to you, will eventually do to mankind anyway? If Nature does what it does, then you don't have to need to "force" it or defend it.

Try to Stay in Context. When I Say Nature Has Stopped some Believing in God. I Mean The Study of it. As We Learn More, We Discard The Myths that Religion has Giving us on God in Regards to Nature! Never said Nothing about Nature Caring to stop or Start Something or What it'll do to Mankind. It's not a Being with Emotions. I Was asking You if You Thought it was!

According to you, belief is unreasonable so how can you study it? I assumed that when you said nature "stopped" something, that you meant literally so that's where I took it. So, in due time, we will naturally stop believing you say. Well, I doubt it. This issue of God's Existence will never go away...like a lot of things in this world.

I'm referring back to a point I was trying to make. You are still making this religion stuff about the "miracles"...or the myths. So what books make extravagant claims of power and might...and so what if they somehow turned out to be true. If they don't deal with the questions we have about life, then they serve no purpose. God's Existence would be meaningless if there isn't a reason to think that maybe this flashy stuffy was meant for something.

 

[evoljeanyes]

God is positive energy. Some people need to see it that's why there is god. Religion is felonious.

 

[maestro_lungs]

@maestro_lungs. On the one hand, you say that Nature has stopped some people from believing in God. Yet, in the same post you question whether I think Nature is "mom". Why would you think nature cares to stop or start anything? Why speak up on what nature, according to you, will eventually do to mankind anyway? If Nature does what it does, then you don't have to need to "force" it or defend it.

Try to Stay in Context. When I Say Nature Has Stopped some Believing in God. I Mean The Study of it. As We Learn More, We Discard The Myths that Religion has Giving us on God in Regards to Nature! Never said Nothing about Nature Caring to stop or Start Something or What it'll do to Mankind. It's not a Being with Emotions. I Was asking You if You Thought it was!

According to you, belief is unreasonable so how can you study it? I assumed that when you said nature "stopped" something, that you meant literally so that's where I took it. So, in due time, we will naturally stop believing you say. Well, I doubt it. This issue of God's Existence will never go away...like a lot of things in this world.

I'm referring back to a point I was trying to make. You are still making this religion stuff about the "miracles"...or the myths. So what books make extravagant claims of power and might...and so what if they somehow turned out to be true. If they don't deal with the questions we have about life, then they serve no purpose. God's Existence would be meaningless if there isn't a reason to think that maybe this flashy stuffy was meant for something.

You can Study belief, but You Can't Actually Study the deity. God is Unrational, Not the Fact That People Believe. you can doubt it, But I Beg to Differ. There'll Come a Time When we Won't need God to Answer Certain questions! Just Like Know, We don't need God to Explain How it Rains or How Babies are Made.

That's Human Mind. You're Putting Purpose, Patterns & Design where it doesn't have to. The Books don't deal with all the Questions we have about & Sometimes when it does it Gives Harmful or Just Wrong Information

 

[alissowack]

I Wanna Clear this up...How is Talking or Questioning Any One's Belief or Religion Seen as Some Kind of Attack on the Person?

Because there is this implied sense that you think that people who have beliefs, especially in God, are somehow inferior to the people who don't. It is as if you are, like you say of the religious, manipulating people to see your point of view. Though experience doesn't make God's Existence valid, it sounds as if you want people to abandon their experiences. Maybe believing in God has helped them live a better life. Maybe belief in God has made them successful and people shouldn't feel as if they should abandon God because you say so...like you say that people shouldn't believe in God because the Bible says so.

 

[alissowack]

@maestro_lungs. On the one hand, you say that Nature has stopped some people from believing in God. Yet, in the same post you question whether I think Nature is "mom". Why would you think nature cares to stop or start anything? Why speak up on what nature, according to you, will eventually do to mankind anyway? If Nature does what it does, then you don't have to need to "force" it or defend it.

Try to Stay in Context. When I Say Nature Has Stopped some Believing in God. I Mean The Study of it. As We Learn More, We Discard The Myths that Religion has Giving us on God in Regards to Nature! Never said Nothing about Nature Caring to stop or Start Something or What it'll do to Mankind. It's not a Being with Emotions. I Was asking You if You Thought it was!

According to you, belief is unreasonable so how can you study it? I assumed that when you said nature "stopped" something, that you meant literally so that's where I took it. So, in due time, we will naturally stop believing you say. Well, I doubt it. This issue of God's Existence will never go away...like a lot of things in this world.

I'm referring back to a point I was trying to make. You are still making this religion stuff about the "miracles"...or the myths. So what books make extravagant claims of power and might...and so what if they somehow turned out to be true. If they don't deal with the questions we have about life, then they serve no purpose. God's Existence would be meaningless if there isn't a reason to think that maybe this flashy stuffy was meant for something.

You can Study belief, but You Can't Actually Study the deity. God is Unrational, Not the Fact That People Believe. you can doubt it, But I Beg to Differ. There'll Come a Time When we Won't need God to Answer Certain questions! Just Like Know, We don't need God to Explain How it Rains or How Babies are Made.

That's Human Mind. You're Putting Purpose, Patterns & Design where it doesn't have to. The Books don't deal with all the Questions we have about & Sometimes when it does it Gives Harmful or Just Wrong Information

Well, how can you say that God is irrational when God has to "exist" first in your view to even be found as such. No, you can't study belief...because belief is not based on science. It is based on relationship. It involves devotion, commitment, trust, union, emotions,....stuff that science won't allow you to do. I can accept that you don't believe God exists because you don't trust the people who tell you that God exists. But for you to use science to justify your lack of belief says you don't really want to look any further. You are content at where you are on the existence of God and you rather have people adopt your views.

Yes, you could probably say the same about the religious, but it doesn't mean that every religious person is looking at the foundations of science and is not appreciative of what it has done to help explain things. And like you say of God, the religious say that it is not the whole picture.

 

[maestro_lungs]

I Wanna Clear this up...How is Talking or Questioning Any One's Belief or Religion Seen as Some Kind of Attack on the Person?

Because there is this implied sense that you think that people who have beliefs, especially in God, are somehow inferior to the people who don't. It is as if you are, like you say of the religious, manipulating people to see your point of view. Though experience doesn't make God's Existence valid, it sounds as if you want people to abandon their experiences. Maybe believing in God has helped them live a better life. Maybe belief in God has made them successful and people shouldn't feel as if they should abandon God because you say so...like you say that people shouldn't believe in God because the Bible says so.

I Never Implied That. I Just Make my case on Why it's Irrational! I Want People to be Skeptical of they Experiences & Be Self Reliant & Come to see Alot of That Better Living was They Own Doing not a Man in The Sky. The same God Who seems to be Loving to One Set of People Can Seem Vengeful & Mean to Others & Don't give me the Crap That They're Sinners. Most atheists would probably be okay with a world that included religion, as long as it was tolerant of other beliefs and stayed the hell out of government. (Some of us are skeptical about whether this is possible... but we'd be okay with it.) Many of us even enjoy some of the rituals and traditions of religion, as long as they don't involve actual religious belief (a la secular Judaism). But yes, many atheist activists would like humanity to eventually give up on religion. We think religion is a mistaken idea about the world. We think we can make a good case for that position. We think it's entirely reasonable to try to persuade people that we're right.

And this is not an attack on diversity.

It is a defense of reality.

 

[maestro_lungs]

@maestro_lungs. On the one hand, you say that Nature has stopped some people from believing in God. Yet, in the same post you question whether I think Nature is "mom". Why would you think nature cares to stop or start anything? Why speak up on what nature, according to you, will eventually do to mankind anyway? If Nature does what it does, then you don't have to need to "force" it or defend it.

Try to Stay in Context. When I Say Nature Has Stopped some Believing in God. I Mean The Study of it. As We Learn More, We Discard The Myths that Religion has Giving us on God in Regards to Nature! Never said Nothing about Nature Caring to stop or Start Something or What it'll do to Mankind. It's not a Being with Emotions. I Was asking You if You Thought it was!

According to you, belief is unreasonable so how can you study it? I assumed that when you said nature "stopped" something, that you meant literally so that's where I took it. So, in due time, we will naturally stop believing you say. Well, I doubt it. This issue of God's Existence will never go away...like a lot of things in this world.

I'm referring back to a point I was trying to make. You are still making this religion stuff about the "miracles"...or the myths. So what books make extravagant claims of power and might...and so what if they somehow turned out to be true. If they don't deal with the questions we have about life, then they serve no purpose. God's Existence would be meaningless if there isn't a reason to think that maybe this flashy stuffy was meant for something.

You can Study belief, but You Can't Actually Study the deity. God is Unrational, Not the Fact That People Believe. you can doubt it, But I Beg to Differ. There'll Come a Time When we Won't need God to Answer Certain questions! Just Like Know, We don't need God to Explain How it Rains or How Babies are Made.

That's Human Mind. You're Putting Purpose, Patterns & Design where it doesn't have to. The Books don't deal with all the Questions we have about & Sometimes when it does it Gives Harmful or Just Wrong Information

Well, how can you say that God is irrational when God has to "exist" first in your view to even be found as such. No, you can't study belief...because belief is not based on science. It is based on relationship. It involves devotion, commitment, trust, union, emotions,....stuff that science won't allow you to do. I can accept that you don't believe God exists because you don't trust the people who tell you that God exists. But for you to use science to justify your lack of belief says you don't really want to look any further. You are content at where you are on the existence of God and you rather have people adopt your views.

Yes, you could probably say the same about the religious, but it doesn't mean that every religious person is looking at the foundations of science and is not appreciative of what it has done to help explain things. And like you say of God, the religious say that it is not the whole picture.

The Belief in God is Irrational, There is no God for me to Consider Him Irrational! You Can Study The Traditions, The Culture & Even Belief itself Considering We do That Now in Neuro Science, We Study The Brain & The Effects of Religious Belief on it. Now This Might Not Apply to You, But There are many believers who think religious faith is entirely rational, that it's based on evidence as much as anything else in life, that faith and reason co-exist nicely and even depend on one another. As We've Explored that is Not The Case, But Now if You do insist that your faith is rational, consider this question What would convince you that your faith was mistaken? What conceivable evidence would make you change your mind and decide that God didn't exist after all? Again, if the answer is, "Nothing could change my mind, that's what it means to have faith" -- well, that pretty much proves my point. while secular faith has instances of irrationality -- many of them, even -- it isn't irrational by its very nature. I think religious faith is.

But --

and this is very important --

I don't think religious believers are.

Not all of them, at any rate. Not by definition.

 

[maestro_lungs]

I Wanna Clear this up...How is Talking or Questioning Any One's Belief or Religion Seen as Some Kind of Attack on the Person?

Because there is this implied sense that you think that people who have beliefs, especially in God, are somehow inferior to the people who don't. It is as if you are, like you say of the religious, manipulating people to see your point of view. Though experience doesn't make God's Existence valid, it sounds as if you want people to abandon their experiences. Maybe believing in God has helped them live a better life. Maybe belief in God has made them successful and people shouldn't feel as if they should abandon God because you say so...like you say that people shouldn't believe in God because the Bible says so.

I Never Implied That. I Just Make my case on Why it's Irrational! I Want People to be Skeptical of they Experiences & Be Self Reliant & Come to see Alot of That Better Living was They Own Doing not a Man in The Sky. The same God Who seems to be Loving to One Set of People Can Seem Vengeful & Mean to Others & Don't give me the Crap That They're Sinners. Most atheists would probably be okay with a world that included religion, as long as it was tolerant of other beliefs and stayed the hell out of government. (Some of us are skeptical about whether this is possible... but we'd be okay with it.) Many of us even enjoy some of the rituals and traditions of religion, as long as they don't involve actual religious belief (a la secular Judaism). But yes, many atheist activists would like humanity to eventually give up on religion. We think religion is a mistaken idea about the world. We think we can make a good case for that position. We think it's entirely reasonable to try to persuade people that we're right.

And this is not an attack on diversity.

It is a defense of reality.

Btw I'm not Comfortable with Where I'm at Concerning The Existence of God. I Would Love for me to be Wrong & You to be Right. A Person who Could Take away all my Problems Just by asking him & I Get to See All My Loved ones When I Die! What Could be Better? I'm Just Saying There is not Enough Reason to Believe That, But If Things Change & I Get Solid Proof! A Voice Heard Across The Planet at The same time or Something Grand Like That, Cause Extraordinary Claims need Extraordinary Evidence to Back it up!

 

[alissowack]

I Wanna Clear this up...How is Talking or Questioning Any One's Belief or Religion Seen as Some Kind of Attack on the Person?

Because there is this implied sense that you think that people who have beliefs, especially in God, are somehow inferior to the people who don't. It is as if you are, like you say of the religious, manipulating people to see your point of view. Though experience doesn't make God's Existence valid, it sounds as if you want people to abandon their experiences. Maybe believing in God has helped them live a better life. Maybe belief in God has made them successful and people shouldn't feel as if they should abandon God because you say so...like you say that people shouldn't believe in God because the Bible says so.

I Never Implied That. I Just Make my case on Why it's Irrational! I Want People to be Skeptical of they Experiences & Be Self Reliant & Come to see Alot of That Better Living was They Own Doing not a Man in The Sky. The same God Who seems to be Loving to One Set of People Can Seem Vengeful & Mean to Others & Don't give me the Crap That They're Sinners. Most atheists would probably be okay with a world that included religion, as long as it was tolerant of other beliefs and stayed the hell out of government. (Some of us are skeptical about whether this is possible... but we'd be okay with it.) Many of us even enjoy some of the rituals and traditions of religion, as long as they don't involve actual religious belief (a la secular Judaism). But yes, many atheist activists would like humanity to eventually give up on religion. We think religion is a mistaken idea about the world. We think we can make a good case for that position. We think it's entirely reasonable to try to persuade people that we're right.

And this is not an attack on diversity.

It is a defense of reality.

Well, you are assuming that people who believe in God are approaching the Bible the way you are suggesting. Even if you don't particularly buy into the existence of God, you have at least had a chance to read on my perspective of God...and it is nothing like what you are suggesting. I don't even think that you have read my post for you are already assuming that I'm only making a case for my beliefs.

The thing about reality is that it is still subjected to what we perceive it to be. There is just this sense that you think that people will naturally come to the truth about the nature of the world; that we will show the utmost respect for the things around us. It would be naive to think that we "know better". We don't. I've said it before, we have made great progress, but it has not stopped people from wrongdoing. We have not "evolved" to where we are treating each other better. Yet, you hope that day will come. It's not coming.

 

[alissowack]

@maestro_lungs. On the one hand, you say that Nature has stopped some people from believing in God. Yet, in the same post you question whether I think Nature is "mom". Why would you think nature cares to stop or start anything? Why speak up on what nature, according to you, will eventually do to mankind anyway? If Nature does what it does, then you don't have to need to "force" it or defend it.

Try to Stay in Context. When I Say Nature Has Stopped some Believing in God. I Mean The Study of it. As We Learn More, We Discard The Myths that Religion has Giving us on God in Regards to Nature! Never said Nothing about Nature Caring to stop or Start Something or What it'll do to Mankind. It's not a Being with Emotions. I Was asking You if You Thought it was!

According to you, belief is unreasonable so how can you study it? I assumed that when you said nature "stopped" something, that you meant literally so that's where I took it. So, in due time, we will naturally stop believing you say. Well, I doubt it. This issue of God's Existence will never go away...like a lot of things in this world.

I'm referring back to a point I was trying to make. You are still making this religion stuff about the "miracles"...or the myths. So what books make extravagant claims of power and might...and so what if they somehow turned out to be true. If they don't deal with the questions we have about life, then they serve no purpose. God's Existence would be meaningless if there isn't a reason to think that maybe this flashy stuffy was meant for something.

You can Study belief, but You Can't Actually Study the deity. God is Unrational, Not the Fact That People Believe. you can doubt it, But I Beg to Differ. There'll Come a Time When we Won't need God to Answer Certain questions! Just Like Know, We don't need God to Explain How it Rains or How Babies are Made.

That's Human Mind. You're Putting Purpose, Patterns & Design where it doesn't have to. The Books don't deal with all the Questions we have about & Sometimes when it does it Gives Harmful or Just Wrong Information

Well, how can you say that God is irrational when God has to "exist" first in your view to even be found as such. No, you can't study belief...because belief is not based on science. It is based on relationship. It involves devotion, commitment, trust, union, emotions,....stuff that science won't allow you to do. I can accept that you don't believe God exists because you don't trust the people who tell you that God exists. But for you to use science to justify your lack of belief says you don't really want to look any further. You are content at where you are on the existence of God and you rather have people adopt your views.

Yes, you could probably say the same about the religious, but it doesn't mean that every religious person is looking at the foundations of science and is not appreciative of what it has done to help explain things. And like you say of God, the religious say that it is not the whole picture.

The Belief in God is Irrational, There is no God for me to Consider Him Irrational! You Can Study The Traditions, The Culture & Even Belief itself Considering We do That Now in Neuro Science, We Study The Brain & The Effects of Religious Belief on it. Now This Might Not Apply to You, But There are many believers who think religious faith is entirely rational, that it's based on evidence as much as anything else in life, that faith and reason co-exist nicely and even depend on one another. As We've Explored that is Not The Case, But Now if You do insist that your faith is rational, consider this question What would convince you that your faith was mistaken? What conceivable evidence would make you change your mind and decide that God didn't exist after all? Again, if the answer is, "Nothing could change my mind, that's what it means to have faith" -- well, that pretty much proves my point. while secular faith has instances of irrationality -- many of them, even -- it isn't irrational by its very nature. I think religious faith is.

But --

and this is very important --

I don't think religious believers are.

Not all of them, at any rate. Not by definition.

But, if you read what you post, you would see why I made this point that God has to exist first. Doing neuroscience is not the whole picture. If you are not willing to engage yourself into your beliefs, then you will never know what it is like to believe. There is a commitment you have in your defense and it would totally suck if science reduces your commitment to the jostling of neurons.

What would convince me if my faith is mistaken? If I die...and that is it. Sure, I won't be in a position to say if I am wrong or right, but it is to say that that is what it's going to take. Whether I live the life of a king or a peasant, I will eventually die and either face nothing or something or what death has to offer.