Who do ya'll consider the greatest "over-achiever'' in hiphop history?

[rakim ii]

Wale

How dat nicca get a record deal?

 

[LUClEN]

 

[usmarin3]

FALSE FALSE FALSE!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!LOL

Eminem though a technically skilled mc during his Infinite era, he wasn't a great ''artist'' or ''songwriter'' then. You can tell he became a more complete artist after Dre got him, he learn how to become a better songwriter (hooks and choruses, not being too lyrical like Infinite). I can hear the difference between Infinite and SSLP, you can see the growth as a artist.

Interscope money did not get Eminem to where he is, Eminem improved as a songwriter and he managed to tap into a ''white teenage angst" in society. You act as if it was easy to market a white rapper when Em popped off. lol If it was so easy then why didn't Bubba Sparxxx pop off like that too, he had a Timbaland cosign and Interscope behind him?

Jay didn't come into his own as a artist until around 94-95, that Fu Schnickens style. You keep talking about record label making artist nonsense, but you fail to look at the fact that Eminem, Jay,etc had to grow into themselves as artist and find out what work for them. Jay was on that fast rapping shit and Eminem was on that super goofy Canibus-ish rapping style. It wasn't until he they found their styles until they blew up.

The inustry didn't make neither of those dudes, they made themselves. Stars become stars because of their talent and there is a void in the culture that they filled. People like Canibus had bigger buzzes than Em initially but guess what, Canibus was not a great artist.

To me stars are stars because people buy into them, there is a believability and aura that draws people to their music. No record label can force that.

As for Wayne, i don't care for his music but the Lil nigga has tapped into mainstream teenage America. You might not feel it but he has put in the work and he has a presence that draws people in. You keep yapping about Birdman and record label this and that, then why isn't Tyga and all them YMCMB doing Waynes numbers/buzz if a label can manipulate hype?

To answer the YMCMB question, Birdman is smart, but he is also grimey, which comes with being smart. He got 3 gold/platinum artists on his label, he's not gonna put too much effort into Tyga and Gudda and these niggas (same goes for Bubba Sparxxx, he was on the same label as Em). That nigga don't even pay his producers, you think he gonna put money into an artist he don't think is gonna sell? Gudda put out one of the best mixtapes of the year, but he'll always be remembered as the grocery bag dude cuz he didn't get pushed. Speaking of that label, look at Nicki. She has an "it" factor, she can write songs that resonate to some demographic. She's doing all the right things as an artist, but her last album flopped. It contradicts my point cuz she got prolly the best push I ever seen in a rap artist, but that's an example of business moves failing. She reached for that Lady Gaga/Katy Perry crowd and fell on her face. Shit happens.

Don't feel like typing another titangraph, I'll make this short... like I said, there's failures in business and there's successes. One business mantra won't work for everyone. You seem to be confusing songwriting with star power. If you're speaking strictly songwriting, I completely agree. It's on the artist to better themselves as songwriters to appeal to the public. But that's just half the job. It's on the label to make people wanna buy that artist, and if he/she's a legit artist like Em and Jay, they'll stick around for that long.

FALSE FALSE FALSE!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!LOL

Eminem though a technically skilled mc during his Infinite era, he wasn't a great ''artist'' or ''songwriter'' then. You can tell he became a more complete artist after Dre got him, he learn how to become a better songwriter (hooks and choruses, not being too lyrical like Infinite). I can hear the difference between Infinite and SSLP, you can see the growth as a artist.

Interscope money did not get Eminem to where he is, Eminem improved as a songwriter and he managed to tap into a ''white teenage angst" in society. You act as if it was easy to market a white rapper when Em popped off. lol If it was so easy then why didn't Bubba Sparxxx pop off like that too, he had a Timbaland cosign and Interscope behind him?

Jay didn't come into his own as a artist until around 94-95, that Fu Schnickens style. You keep talking about record label making artist nonsense, but you fail to look at the fact that Eminem, Jay,etc had to grow into themselves as artist and find out what work for them. Jay was on that fast rapping shit and Eminem was on that super goofy Canibus-ish rapping style. It wasn't until he they found their styles until they blew up.

The inustry didn't make neither of those dudes, they made themselves. Stars become stars because of their talent and there is a void in the culture that they filled. People like Canibus had bigger buzzes than Em initially but guess what, Canibus was not a great artist.

To me stars are stars because people buy into them, there is a believability and aura that draws people to their music. No record label can force that.

As for Wayne, i don't care for his music but the Lil nigga has tapped into mainstream teenage America. You might not feel it but he has put in the work and he has a presence that draws people in. You keep yapping about Birdman and record label this and that, then why isn't Tyga and all them YMCMB doing Waynes numbers/buzz if a label can manipulate hype?

To answer the YMCMB question, Birdman is smart, but he is also grimey, which comes with being smart. He got 3 gold/platinum artists on his label, he's not gonna put too much effort into Tyga and Gudda and these niggas (same goes for Bubba Sparxxx, he was on the same label as Em). That nigga don't even pay his producers, you think he gonna put money into an artist he don't think is gonna sell? Gudda put out one of the best mixtapes of the year, but he'll always be remembered as the grocery bag dude cuz he didn't get pushed. Speaking of that label, look at Nicki. She has an "it" factor, she can write songs that resonate to some demographic. She's doing all the right things as an artist, but her last album flopped. It contradicts my point cuz she got prolly the best push I ever seen in a rap artist, but that's an example of business moves failing. She reached for that Lady Gaga/Katy Perry crowd and fell on her face. Shit happens.

Don't feel like typing another titangraph, I'll make this short... like I said, there's failures in business and there's successes. One business mantra won't work for everyone. You seem to be confusing songwriting with star power. If you're speaking strictly songwriting, I completely agree. It's on the artist to better themselves as songwriters to appeal to the public. But that's just half the job. It's on the label to make people wanna buy that artist, and if he/she's a legit artist like Em and Jay, they'll stick around for that long.

LOL at this shit. So instead of making more money by giving all the YMCMB artist the same success as Wayne, he is playing it smart by not putting in any effort on them. LMFAO LMFAO LMFAO

You do realize Cash Money is renegotiating for a new deal right and the more successful artist they have, the more money they can demand. Why would any business man not want as many successful artist as possible.

LOL at this logic, good night folks!

 

[Lab Baby]

FALSE FALSE FALSE!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!LOL

Eminem though a technically skilled mc during his Infinite era, he wasn't a great ''artist'' or ''songwriter'' then. You can tell he became a more complete artist after Dre got him, he learn how to become a better songwriter (hooks and choruses, not being too lyrical like Infinite). I can hear the difference between Infinite and SSLP, you can see the growth as a artist.

Interscope money did not get Eminem to where he is, Eminem improved as a songwriter and he managed to tap into a ''white teenage angst" in society. You act as if it was easy to market a white rapper when Em popped off. lol If it was so easy then why didn't Bubba Sparxxx pop off like that too, he had a Timbaland cosign and Interscope behind him?

Jay didn't come into his own as a artist until around 94-95, that Fu Schnickens style. You keep talking about record label making artist nonsense, but you fail to look at the fact that Eminem, Jay,etc had to grow into themselves as artist and find out what work for them. Jay was on that fast rapping shit and Eminem was on that super goofy Canibus-ish rapping style. It wasn't until he they found their styles until they blew up.

The inustry didn't make neither of those dudes, they made themselves. Stars become stars because of their talent and there is a void in the culture that they filled. People like Canibus had bigger buzzes than Em initially but guess what, Canibus was not a great artist.

To me stars are stars because people buy into them, there is a believability and aura that draws people to their music. No record label can force that.

As for Wayne, i don't care for his music but the Lil nigga has tapped into mainstream teenage America. You might not feel it but he has put in the work and he has a presence that draws people in. You keep yapping about Birdman and record label this and that, then why isn't Tyga and all them YMCMB doing Waynes numbers/buzz if a label can manipulate hype?

To answer the YMCMB question, Birdman is smart, but he is also grimey, which comes with being smart. He got 3 gold/platinum artists on his label, he's not gonna put too much effort into Tyga and Gudda and these niggas (same goes for Bubba Sparxxx, he was on the same label as Em). That nigga don't even pay his producers, you think he gonna put money into an artist he don't think is gonna sell? Gudda put out one of the best mixtapes of the year, but he'll always be remembered as the grocery bag dude cuz he didn't get pushed. Speaking of that label, look at Nicki. She has an "it" factor, she can write songs that resonate to some demographic. She's doing all the right things as an artist, but her last album flopped. It contradicts my point cuz she got prolly the best push I ever seen in a rap artist, but that's an example of business moves failing. She reached for that Lady Gaga/Katy Perry crowd and fell on her face. Shit happens.

Don't feel like typing another titangraph, I'll make this short... like I said, there's failures in business and there's successes. One business mantra won't work for everyone. You seem to be confusing songwriting with star power. If you're speaking strictly songwriting, I completely agree. It's on the artist to better themselves as songwriters to appeal to the public. But that's just half the job. It's on the label to make people wanna buy that artist, and if he/she's a legit artist like Em and Jay, they'll stick around for that long.

LOL at this shit. So instead of making more money by giving all the YMCMB artist the same success as Wayne, he is playing it smart by not putting in any effort on them. LMFAO LMFAO LMFAO

You do realize Cash Money is renegotiating for a new deal right and the more successful artist they have, the more money they can demand. Why would any business man not want as many successful artist as possible.

LOL at this logic, good night folks!

It's called priorities. Not saying he's gonna completely ignore Tyga, that'd be dumb. But if you were Birdman and Tyga and Wayne walked in your office at the same time and dropped their albums on your desk, who would you give more attention to? I mean got dayum, we just had a thread about this nigga not knowing Bow Wow was signed to him, we all know where his priorities are. Wayne is YMCMB, the rest are just tax write offs til they pop on their own. Again, this is applicable to any label. You and I both know that Def Jam ain't gonna make the Roots a priority when Rick Ross has an album coming out, and yes they shit on him in every aspect of musicianship.

 

[Wild Self]

Kanye West- he came up in an era where hip hop was about being tough and being street, and being an oddball in the roc. Who would have thought this time 10 years ago that Kanye would be this big of a star

10 years ago, everyone was on that "Ima super gangsta" tip. Now, everyone is mad "swagged out."

 

[CJ]

I'd say Kanye because of all the reasons listed.

I'm not understanding the Jay answers tho.

 

[D.D.S.]

lil wayne owns this thread. who whould've thought 10 yrs that he would be one of the biggest rappers in the game??

 

[wu-tang4ever]

Rick ross, Anyone in YMCMB and Ja Rule own this.

 

[Hero!387]

Jay-Z takes this one. No one has ascended higher through the ranks of the rap game than Jay has through his over achieving and he wasn't "put in a position to win" he was passed up on every step of the way so much so that he had to create his own label. And as far as his talent goes he's actually very talented but he limits himself by "dumbing down for his audience" to "double his dollars". I think he fits this discussion's definition the best.

 

[TheFix]

I knew Jay would be ill, but I don't think anybody expected this. I could see it with puff, but I had no clue jay would be this big. Wayne is this thread though. He should've been obscure by now.

 

[MarcusGarvey]

Kanye:

Back when they thought Pink Polos would hurt the Roc

Before Cam got the shit to pop

The doors was closed, I felt like Bad Boy's street team

I couldn't work the locks

 

[vslyke]

Guru (RIP). Lets be honest, if he doesn't luck into working with Premier, he'd just be another underground dude that never got his shine. Gang Starr & Premo beats made him into a star and helped him launch his own career, which flopped once he broke ties with Premier.

 

[Queens Finest]

-

Guru (RIP). Lets be honest, if he doesn't luck into working with Premier, he'd just be another underground dude that never got his shine. Gang Starr & Premo beats made him into a star and helped him launch his own career, which flopped once he broke ties with Premier.

Log off the comuter RIGHT now! Guru was one of th illest MC's to ever grace the mic...GTFOH

 

[usmarin3]

Guru is one of the most overrated rappers ever, CL Smooth > Guru's monotonous and basic ass.

 

[Queens Finest]

See, I bet you a young nigga who probably listens to Wayne and Drake...one thing Ive come to realize is that young cats have zero respect for the true hip hop pioneers. SMDH

 

[Queens Finest]

Add fake ass Drake to that list...dude is a f'n joke. Nigga dont no shit about the struggle and has never lived one day as a black man.

 

[Roberto Parish]

as much i i hate to say this ... Soulja Boy

 

[Roberto Parish]

Also Lil Wayne . Nobody thought he would be where he would be back in 98-99

 

[almighty breeze]

a lotta these niggas are just lucky or you guys are forgetting they had a machine behind them + the climate of hip hop

Eminem- Dr. Dre & Jimmy Iovines goldent egg. It would take an actual effort for him NOT to succeed

Jeezy- One of Jay-Z's first siginings as Pres. of Def Jam (machine); Ushered in the whole "it doesnt matter if i cant rap, i have hot beats and 'really lived that life' " + Southern Mainstream Explosion

dont count these guys. I'd put

Beanie Sigel- Roc A Fella wasnt (& wouldnt be) hot or a go to label w/o him. He had no business approaching gold

T.I.

Master P

3 6 Mafia

Wale- dude shoulda been dead in the water after Attention Deficit

oddly enough- Nore, bul is complete garbage & stayed afloat for about 6 years

 

[Lab Baby]

a lotta these niggas are just lucky or you guys are forgetting they had a machine behind them + the climate of hip hop

Eminem- Dr. Dre & Jimmy Iovines goldent egg. It would take an actual effort for him NOT to succeed

Jeezy- One of Jay-Z's first siginings as Pres. of Def Jam (machine); Ushered in the whole "it doesnt matter if i cant rap, i have hot beats and 'really lived that life' " + Southern Mainstream Explosion

dont count these guys. I'd put

Beanie Sigel- Roc A Fella wasnt (& wouldnt be) hot or a go to label w/o him. He had no business approaching gold

T.I.

Master P

3 6 Mafia

Wale- dude shoulda been dude in the water after Attention Deficit

oddly enough- Nore, bul is complete garbage & stayed afloat for about 6 years

I was trying to make this point for half the thread. Niggas don't give a fuck if you're nice if you don't have a company backing you up. That's the difference between a dude performing in train stations and performing at MSG.