Who do ya'll consider the greatest "over-achiever'' in hiphop history?

[N YO HOOD]

Insane Clown Posse owns this thread

 

[2 Drawlz]

Wayne worked his fucking ass off.

all them squad up tapes , features n mix tapes, carter 1 & 2 all goin under the radar from 03-05.

until 06', when niggaz started catching on. instead of ceasing , Wayne grind even harder like only a handful before him. yet he's an over achiever???

as a black man , you don't get to achieve shit in this world . without bussin ya ass harder then everyone around u.

Wayne earned his shit

 

[5th Letter]

Kanye West- he came up in an era where hip hop was about being tough and being street, and being an oddball in the roc. Who would have thought this time 10 years ago that Kanye would be this big of a star

 

[Disciplined InSight]

Fucked up that last post I had to edit it.

 

[Neophyte Wolfgang]

Jay-z close thread

 

[R.D.]

Jay-z close thread

lmaoooo but your answer makes no sense

 

[Gen. Stasia]

Rick Ross....

 

[ohhhla]

Rick Ross.

 

[LUClEN]

ICP

 

[south4life]

Nelly

Ja Rule

Lil Wayne

Jay-Z

 

[mackadamon]

Rick Ross no doubt in my mind takes this title hands down. Jay, Wayne, 50, have all achieved more than him musicly or artisticly. Niggaz like Nelly and Ja Rule don't even count - not relavent and Jeezy really ain't on his level of success for real.

 

[DOPEdweebz]

Wayne worked his fucking ass off.

all them squad up tapes , features n mix tapes, carter 1 & 2 all goin under the radar from 03-05.

until 06', when niggaz started catching on. instead of ceasing , Wayne grind even harder like only a handful before him. yet he's an over achiever???

as a black man , you don't get to achieve shit in this world . without bussin ya ass harder then everyone around u.

Wayne earned his shit

Exactly why i put overachiever and underachiever. He should be a top 5 nigga but he truly disappointed me as a former fan of his.

 

[MF_Doomerville]

Smh @ jay and em being listed. They both rap better than a lot of your favorite rappers. Only on the IC.

Anyway, I'm rolling with Gucci mane. This dude CAN'T rap to save his life yet people are on his shit like he be spittin that knowledge. This cat should've been out the game already.

 

[usmarin3]

LOL at what determines star quality, come on dude, don't play dumb. You know people like Michael Jackson, Prince, etc have that certain quality or thing that makes them transcend their genre.

Who determines star quality, the people and the artist talent.

Those artist from the 80s didn't recieve accolades because the genre was just starting up and the mainstream media/music community thought rap was a fad back then. LOL at the artist back then didn't give a fuck about accolades, then why did they sign to major labels then, why not just make raps for their niggas then. If you sign to a record label, that means you want as much people as possible to hear your music.

There is a reason why songs like Rappers delight crossed over first out of all the rap song. It was commercial and fun record. There was a reason why Kurtis Blow was the first rapper to get a a major deal, because he made good commercial records.

This used to be the case, but now (or at least at some point) the labels can create a star based on hype and promotion. An artist can make another Rapper's Delight, and have the same amount of talent and overall qualities as those artists, but if they don't have that initial buzz, the labels won't deal with them.

Look at Chief Keef. We all know dude is hot dookie butter and a missing chromosome away from being a do do bird, but Interscope believed in him because he had Youtube views. They tried to capitalize off his buzz, but failed because outside his niche crowd, the public wasn't feelin him. Now, if he did succeed like Soulja Boy before, people would look at him and say he's a star. Speaking of which, Soulja Boy was a "star", but none of his music is hitting right now.

It takes more than "swag" and star quality to make a credible artist. You gotta have skills and musical ability. You mentioned MJ and Prince, but them dudes were musical geniuses. They wouldn't lasted half as long in the game if they didn't have talent. Labels have been focusing so much on buzz and mistaking it for true star quality that it's starting to blow up in their face, word to Kreayshawn.

LOL at what determines star quality, come on dude, don't play dumb. You know people like Michael Jackson, Prince, etc have that certain quality or thing that makes them transcend their genre.

Who determines star quality, the people and the artist talent.

Those artist from the 80s didn't recieve accolades because the genre was just starting up and the mainstream media/music community thought rap was a fad back then. LOL at the artist back then didn't give a fuck about accolades, then why did they sign to major labels then, why not just make raps for their niggas then. If you sign to a record label, that means you want as much people as possible to hear your music.

There is a reason why songs like Rappers delight crossed over first out of all the rap song. It was commercial and fun record. There was a reason why Kurtis Blow was the first rapper to get a a major deal, because he made good commercial records.

This used to be the case, but now (or at least at some point) the labels can create a star based on hype and promotion. An artist can make another Rapper's Delight, and have the same amount of talent and overall qualities as those artists, but if they don't have that initial buzz, the labels won't deal with them.

Look at Chief Keef. We all know dude is hot dookie butter and a missing chromosome away from being a do do bird, but Interscope believed in him because he had Youtube views. They tried to capitalize off his buzz, but failed because outside his niche crowd, the public wasn't feelin him. Now, if he did succeed like Soulja Boy before, people would look at him and say he's a star. Speaking of which, Soulja Boy was a "star", but none of his music is hitting right now.

It takes more than "swag" and star quality to make a credible artist. You gotta have skills and musical ability. You mentioned MJ and Prince, but them dudes were musical geniuses. They wouldn't lasted half as long in the game if they didn't have talent. Labels have been focusing so much on buzz and mistaking it for true star quality that it's starting to blow up in their face, word to Kreayshawn.

This post reeks of dumbass-ness, if record labels could create stars like that, THE MUSIC BUSINESS WOULDN'T BE IN THE SHAMBLES THAT IT IS IN.

You niggas are so fucking predictable with your promo and hype nonsense. Just use some fucking logic for one second (i know that's hard for you niggas), if hype/promo really worked then why isn't Interscope, Sony, Warner Bros,etc using it for all their artist if it guarantees success. Record labels put out 100's of albums every year and a good 90+ % don't even see gold much less crack 100k sold.

The Chief Kief example is fucking stupid too, i always notice people like you always use extreme examples (some wack rapper who succeeds like Soulja Boy), but what you fail to mention is dudes like that have no longevity. Stars have the skillset,talent, and mass appeal (Pac, Dre, Jay, Big,etc) and their music is timeless. Anyone can throw out a name like Chief Kief, Vanilla Ice, Gucci,etc as the norm, but those dudes will flame out in the mainstream in a second.

No one said anything about swag nigga, YOU'RE THE ONLY ONE WHO BROUGHT UP SWAG. What i've from the beginning is stars is technically skilled, have that certain ''it'' factor,etc. No one said swag.

You act as if people like Jay, Pac, Biggie, etc aren't as technically skilled (if not more) than someone like a Mos Def, Talib,etc. I would even go further are say Jay, Pac, Biggie are more gifted in their songwriting ability.

 

[Lab Baby]

LOL at what determines star quality, come on dude, don't play dumb. You know people like Michael Jackson, Prince, etc have that certain quality or thing that makes them transcend their genre.

Who determines star quality, the people and the artist talent.

Those artist from the 80s didn't recieve accolades because the genre was just starting up and the mainstream media/music community thought rap was a fad back then. LOL at the artist back then didn't give a fuck about accolades, then why did they sign to major labels then, why not just make raps for their niggas then. If you sign to a record label, that means you want as much people as possible to hear your music.

There is a reason why songs like Rappers delight crossed over first out of all the rap song. It was commercial and fun record. There was a reason why Kurtis Blow was the first rapper to get a a major deal, because he made good commercial records.

This used to be the case, but now (or at least at some point) the labels can create a star based on hype and promotion. An artist can make another Rapper's Delight, and have the same amount of talent and overall qualities as those artists, but if they don't have that initial buzz, the labels won't deal with them.

Look at Chief Keef. We all know dude is hot dookie butter and a missing chromosome away from being a do do bird, but Interscope believed in him because he had Youtube views. They tried to capitalize off his buzz, but failed because outside his niche crowd, the public wasn't feelin him. Now, if he did succeed like Soulja Boy before, people would look at him and say he's a star. Speaking of which, Soulja Boy was a "star", but none of his music is hitting right now.

It takes more than "swag" and star quality to make a credible artist. You gotta have skills and musical ability. You mentioned MJ and Prince, but them dudes were musical geniuses. They wouldn't lasted half as long in the game if they didn't have talent. Labels have been focusing so much on buzz and mistaking it for true star quality that it's starting to blow up in their face, word to Kreayshawn.

This post reeks of dumbass-ness, if record labels could create stars like that, THE MUSIC BUSINESS WOULDN'T BE IN THE SHAMBLES THAT IT IS IN.

You niggas are so fucking predictable with your promo and hype nonsense. Just use some fucking logic for one second (i know that's hard for you niggas), if hype/promo really worked then why isn't Interscope, Sony, Warner Bros,etc using it for all their artist if it guarantees success. Record labels put out 100's of albums every year and a good 90+ % don't even see gold much less crack 100k sold.

The Chief Kief example is fucking stupid too, i always notice people like you always use extreme examples (some wack rapper who succeeds like Soulja Boy), but what you fail to mention is dudes like that have no longevity. Stars have the skillset,talent, and mass appeal (Pac, Dre, Jay, Big,etc) and their music is timeless. Anyone can throw out a name like Chief Kief, Vanilla Ice, Gucci,etc as the norm, but those dudes will flame out in the mainstream in a second.

No one said anything about swag nigga, YOU'RE THE ONLY ONE WHO BROUGHT UP SWAG. What i've from the beginning is stars is technically skilled, have that certain ''it'' factor,etc. No one said swag.

You act as if people like Jay, Pac, Biggie, etc aren't as technically skilled (if not more) than someone like a Mos Def, Talib,etc. I would even go further are say Jay, Pac, Biggie are more gifted in their songwriting ability.

OK, let's look at Eminem. He was in the Pac/Big/Nas class, he's old as fuck. He put out Infinite in his 20s, shit tanked. He couldn't even blow up in that era, when hip hop was in its prime. It took a Dre cosign and a shitload of Interscope money to make him the "star" he is today. Now Em is my dude, but I'm not gonna sit here and act like Interscope didn't build him like a Frankenstein monster. Not saying he isn't a star naturally, but it takes the right push to get a dude like that where he is now.

Jay is a better example. Son was under Big Daddy Kane. He could've debuted with Rakim and them. That nigga got held back two whole classes before he graduated, per se. Fuckin Shyhiem got on before him. Why would someone with so much "it" factor, as you say it, take so long to blow up if he was supposed to naturally do so? RD wasn't even that successful initially, and that was his best album. There's a difference between an album financed by drug money and an album financed by the biggest touring company in the world. Of course Jay would be as big as he is with 100 mil+ behind him. Without that shit, he'd be Hawaiian Sophie.

My point is this... taking nothing from anyone, Jay and Em are two of the best to do it, period. But the stars don't make themselves, the industry makes them. The people eventually have a say, but only if they buy what the industry is selling them. You can apply that to anyone that has ever made a single dime off entertainment. Some people succeed (Jay, Pac, Big), some people don't (Chief Keef, Kreayshawn). It's partly because the failures suck, but mostly because it's a competition. The execs know you gotta undercut anyone to make it, even if the product is horrible. We are not listeners to them, we are consumers, and they will sell us anything as long as we buy it. Lil Wayne from 08 til now has been suckin dick on the mic, but let's not act like Birdman ain't one of the brightest and most vicious business minds in the industry. A million people flocked to buy the same wack ass rehashed album in a week... twice... neither of them getting any play beyond a year. Does that say more about Wayne's "star quality", or Birdman's business savvy? It's music business, and if the business ain't right, the music and the artist is worthless... at least in that particular business.

 

[Cutler 26 INT's LOL!]

Kayne West

 

[313 wayz]

Kanye, Lil Wayne, Gucci Mane are all I can think of right now.

 

[usmarin3]

FALSE FALSE FALSE!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!LOL

Eminem though a technically skilled mc during his Infinite era, he wasn't a great ''artist'' or ''songwriter'' then. You can tell he became a more complete artist after Dre got him, he learn how to become a better songwriter (hooks and choruses, not being too lyrical like Infinite). I can hear the difference between Infinite and SSLP, you can see the growth as a artist.

Interscope money did not get Eminem to where he is, Eminem improved as a songwriter and he managed to tap into a ''white teenage angst" in society. You act as if it was easy to market a white rapper when Em popped off. lol If it was so easy then why didn't Bubba Sparxxx pop off like that too, he had a Timbaland cosign and Interscope behind him?

Jay didn't come into his own as a artist until around 94-95, that Fu Schnickens style. You keep talking about record label making artist nonsense, but you fail to look at the fact that Eminem, Jay,etc had to grow into themselves as artist and find out what work for them. Jay was on that fast rapping shit and Eminem was on that super goofy Canibus-ish rapping style. It wasn't until he they found their styles until they blew up.

The inustry didn't make neither of those dudes, they made themselves. Stars become stars because of their talent and there is a void in the culture that they filled. People like Canibus had bigger buzzes than Em initially but guess what, Canibus was not a great artist.

To me stars are stars because people buy into them, there is a believability and aura that draws people to their music. No record label can force that.

As for Wayne, i don't care for his music but the Lil nigga has tapped into mainstream teenage America. You might not feel it but he has put in the work and he has a presence that draws people in. You keep yapping about Birdman and record label this and that, then why isn't Tyga and all them YMCMB doing Waynes numbers/buzz if a label can manipulate hype?

 

[TheFix]

Any trap rapper not named Young Jeezy. TI excluded.

 

[Lab Baby]

FALSE FALSE FALSE!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!LOL

Eminem though a technically skilled mc during his Infinite era, he wasn't a great ''artist'' or ''songwriter'' then. You can tell he became a more complete artist after Dre got him, he learn how to become a better songwriter (hooks and choruses, not being too lyrical like Infinite). I can hear the difference between Infinite and SSLP, you can see the growth as a artist.

Interscope money did not get Eminem to where he is, Eminem improved as a songwriter and he managed to tap into a ''white teenage angst" in society. You act as if it was easy to market a white rapper when Em popped off. lol If it was so easy then why didn't Bubba Sparxxx pop off like that too, he had a Timbaland cosign and Interscope behind him?

Jay didn't come into his own as a artist until around 94-95, that Fu Schnickens style. You keep talking about record label making artist nonsense, but you fail to look at the fact that Eminem, Jay,etc had to grow into themselves as artist and find out what work for them. Jay was on that fast rapping shit and Eminem was on that super goofy Canibus-ish rapping style. It wasn't until he they found their styles until they blew up.

The inustry didn't make neither of those dudes, they made themselves. Stars become stars because of their talent and there is a void in the culture that they filled. People like Canibus had bigger buzzes than Em initially but guess what, Canibus was not a great artist.

To me stars are stars because people buy into them, there is a believability and aura that draws people to their music. No record label can force that.

As for Wayne, i don't care for his music but the Lil nigga has tapped into mainstream teenage America. You might not feel it but he has put in the work and he has a presence that draws people in. You keep yapping about Birdman and record label this and that, then why isn't Tyga and all them YMCMB doing Waynes numbers/buzz if a label can manipulate hype?

To answer the YMCMB question, Birdman is smart, but he is also grimey, which comes with being smart. He got 3 gold/platinum artists on his label, he's not gonna put too much effort into Tyga and Gudda and these niggas (same goes for Bubba Sparxxx, he was on the same label as Em). That nigga don't even pay his producers, you think he gonna put money into an artist he don't think is gonna sell? Gudda put out one of the best mixtapes of the year, but he'll always be remembered as the grocery bag dude cuz he didn't get pushed. Speaking of that label, look at Nicki. She has an "it" factor, she can write songs that resonate to some demographic. She's doing all the right things as an artist, but her last album flopped. It contradicts my point cuz she got prolly the best push I ever seen in a rap artist, but that's an example of business moves failing. She reached for that Lady Gaga/Katy Perry crowd and fell on her face. Shit happens.

Don't feel like typing another titangraph, I'll make this short... like I said, there's failures in business and there's successes. One business mantra won't work for everyone. You seem to be confusing songwriting with star power. If you're speaking strictly songwriting, I completely agree. It's on the artist to better themselves as songwriters to appeal to the public. But that's just half the job. It's on the label to make people wanna buy that artist, and if he/she's a legit artist like Em and Jay, they'll stick around for that long.