Tupac Amaru Shakur "Hip-Hop's Greatest Artist"

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I had to think long and hard and this is a tough one but I felt comfortable going with Cube on this one considering his discography, lyrical content, entertainment value, song quality.

He may not have been creative with the wordplay and punchline metaphors but like Scarface, he could carry an album without all the guest appearances which indicates that he can hold a listeners interest even with sub-par production.

BTW.. It ought to be a crime not having Scarface up there who is my number 2 choice by a verrrry slim margin.

Oh... and all the things you attribute to Pac can be attributed to Ice Cube (pre-2Pac)

Ice Cube was through with it before Pac even knew what to do with it (lol)

Pac was humpty dancing (i think hyphy derived from this) when Cube was on that social injustice, community revolution, social ill's awareness tip.
 
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a_list;5621606 said:
D_Rap_Scholar;5621582 said:
a_list;5621274 said:
yo you kinda ruining your claim by putting cats like Kanye, Rza and Quik up here cuz they produce and rap, wouldnt that make them the better overall artist?....lol

Lol, i guess you're right. But what Kanye and RZA have done with their beats, artists like Nas and Tupac can do with their lyrics....seriously, it takes a lot to create a song that can capture a mood or a moment - and truly talented lyricists can do that using words!

Yo I'm trying to grasp this artist thing so I ask questions...lol...I'm just trying to figure out what makes rappers better artist than others when all that 90% of them do is write and perform lyrics....It takes extreme talent to move people with words, but with this artist thing it seems as if the more successful rapper = better artist....I dont get it...lol

This a two –part question that requires a two-part answer: (1) What is the difference between an emcee and an artist? (2) What makes a rap artist successful or great? I’ll try to break down the first one...

I think the distinction between an “artist” and an “emcee” shouldn’t be taken too literally. They’re really just terms we use to describe how we perceive the intentions of a rapper. For instance, the primary goal of emceeing is to demonstrate your competence and prowess on the mic. So any rapper who truly wants to be an emcee has to impress an audience with their rapping abilities, and that means drawing on a wide array of skills and personal talents (lyrical dexterity, breathee control, rhythmic flow, witty puns, clever punchlines and metaphors, charisma and attitude). The greatest emcees are those who amaze their listeners and outdo, outwit, out-brag, and outperform their rivals; the greatest emcee is one whose skills are so legendary, that they inspire their fellow emcees to constantly strive for better. (examples of emceeing include Rakim on Microphone Fiend, Kool G Rap and Big Daddy Kane on Five Minutes of Death, Canibus on The C-Quel, Big Pun on Dream Shatterer)

Rap artists, on the other hand, are those who aspire to do more than just impress people with their attitude or rhymes – they want to paint a picture using their words. Thus, their primary goal is to articulate an image or an idea, using their words as an expression of thought. Sometimes the goal is to narrate a story by appealing to their audience’s sense of imagination– other times, it might be to inspire and motivate the listener, by appealing to their sense of emotion (this is especially true for message rap like Public Enemy's Black Steel in the Hour of Chaos) Like an emcee, the rap artist still has to rely on a technical craft – but in addition to their rapping skills, they must make use of their emotion and creativity. An ambitious rap artist may even go as far as to rely on multiple mediums to express his or her vision, including atmospheric beats (e.g. the surreal backdrop of AZ’s expressive Born Alone, Die Alone), album skits (De La Soul's intro to 3 Feet High and Rising), music videos (e.g. Jeru Damaja’s allegoric Can’t Stop the Prophet, which relies on grotesque animated figures), or cover art (e.g. the famous cover of Illmatic, which depicts a young Nas with QueensbridgeProjects in the backdrop). At their purest form, rap artists are storytellers and poets who can compose a song that will take their listeners to a whole different state-of-mind (examples of rap artistry include Common’s I Used to Love Her, which features Common recounting his relationship with hip hop, personified as a women; and Pigeon by Cannibal Ox - which relies on the symbolism of birds to present an allegory of life in the ghetto)

But no matter how you spin it, rapping requires both technical skill and creativity. So when we distinguish between an artist and an emcee, what we’re really talking about are two sides of the same coin. A rapper who aspires to be an artist will still have to rely on their emcee skills if they ever want to connect with an audience; and a skilled emcee will be challenged to be creative like an artist, if they want their persona, talent, and imagery to be remembered.

...I'll try to get to the second part of your question when I have more time lol
 
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Code:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=idd5YoZ3JlA

Ice Cube prophesied the L.A. riots almost 2 years before it set off (have a listen)

Code:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wUJ1xaEefTc
 
NothingButTheTruth;5621425 said:
Btw I hope y'all understand that you're being programmed to look up to dude because he's dead. Real dudes understand this..... stop being so impressionable.

and i hope U UNDERSTAND that your DNA and genetic make-up is of a bitch, you sound really hoe like, be mad at your grandparents for busting nuts to late that trickled to you to be born late.

that is the stupidest shit on here yet, nigga i was alive when pac was rapping with ray luv as strictly dope a bay area underground group..........nigga if you wasn't from that era then shut the fuck up...
 
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25centsandwich;5622055 said:
Co-sign...

Alot of comments from young cats who dont remember how huge pac was before he died...

From 94 to 96 he was bigger than any rapper has ever been...only em in 2000 or wayne in 08 can come close...

Niggas only remember pac ridin on the east coast but they dont remember them hatin on pac for being the mainstream face of rap...

Nas big wu scarface etc. were big in hip hop circles but not as mainstream as pac yet...

Pac (along with snoop and dre) engineered rappers being huge pop culture figures again after hammer, vanilla ice fiasco

these kids is acting like bitches because they was not even thought of when strictly dropped, or 2pacalypse now was dropped, how he was in movies, shooting cops asses, AND OTHER TYPES OF SHIT

2PAC was the face of BLACK YOUNG MALES FROM GENERATION X, these niggas don't know shit, but tight jeans, popping mollys and dressing like a bitch
 
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CirocObama;5621998 said:
@menace

I don't get it, you tryna say if a nigga wears bandana = 2pac had a influence on them? 2pac did not create or was the first one with that. Bandanas was just like jerseys a popular thing in the early 90's. Redman used to stay rocking bandanas pre 2pac and so did alot of New York street cats, which is were 2pac got that influence from. Nate rocked bandanas alot too.

nigga you trying to hard, that was a black thing first, first it was slaves that use the bandanna to keep sweat from their eyes, then black women used it to keep their hair up after slavery then brothers used it to keep their cunk intact when they sleep in the 40's...IT'S A BLACK THING!!!
 
waterproof;5622356 said:
CirocObama;5621998 said:
@menace

I don't get it, you tryna say if a nigga wears bandana = 2pac had a influence on them? 2pac did not create or was the first one with that. Bandanas was just like jerseys a popular thing in the early 90's. Redman used to stay rocking bandanas pre 2pac and so did alot of New York street cats, which is were 2pac got that influence from. Nate rocked bandanas alot too.

nigga you trying to hard, that was a black thing first, first it was slaves that use the bandanna to keep sweat from their eyes, then black women used it to keep their hair up after slavery then brothers used it to keep their cunk intact when they sleep in the 40's...IT'S A BLACK THING!!!

lmao what the fuck are you talking about? Menace was essentially saying that artists started wearing bandanas cuz of 2pac and i told him that the reason he wore it was because it became a trend in the 90's and he was mimmicking what alot of the new york thug cats used to wear. So your post should be directed at him. Or are you saying that 2pac wore it cuz he saw black women in the 40's rocking it?

LMAO this clown ass talking about who the 40's and just rambling on about random shit that dont make sense to what i said and then talk about me trying too hard? LMAO you made a fool out yourself.

READ and THEN reply my dude.

 
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CirocObama;5622463 said:
waterproof;5622356 said:
CirocObama;5621998 said:
@menace

I don't get it, you tryna say if a nigga wears bandana = 2pac had a influence on them? 2pac did not create or was the first one with that. Bandanas was just like jerseys a popular thing in the early 90's. Redman used to stay rocking bandanas pre 2pac and so did alot of New York street cats, which is were 2pac got that influence from. Nate rocked bandanas alot too.

nigga you trying to hard, that was a black thing first, first it was slaves that use the bandanna to keep sweat from their eyes, then black women used it to keep their hair up after slavery then brothers used it to keep their cunk intact when they sleep in the 40's...IT'S A BLACK THING!!!

lmao what the fuck are you talking about? Menace was essentially saying that artists started wearing bandanas cuz of 2pac and i told him that the reason he wore it was because it became a trend in the 90's and he was mimmicking what alot of the new york thug cats used to wear. So your post should be directed at him. Or are you saying that 2pac wore it cuz he saw black women in the 40's rocking it?

LMAO this clown ass talking about who the 40's and just rambling on about random shit that dont make sense to what i said and then talk about me trying too hard? LMAO you made a fool out yourself.

READ and THEN reply my dude.

You read my post wrong of course there was people wearing bandanas before Pac

but I'm talking about after Pac the way ppl wore the bandana was similar to the way he wore it.
 
_Menace_;5622488 said:
CirocObama;5622463 said:
waterproof;5622356 said:
CirocObama;5621998 said:
@menace

I don't get it, you tryna say if a nigga wears bandana = 2pac had a influence on them? 2pac did not create or was the first one with that. Bandanas was just like jerseys a popular thing in the early 90's. Redman used to stay rocking bandanas pre 2pac and so did alot of New York street cats, which is were 2pac got that influence from. Nate rocked bandanas alot too.

nigga you trying to hard, that was a black thing first, first it was slaves that use the bandanna to keep sweat from their eyes, then black women used it to keep their hair up after slavery then brothers used it to keep their cunk intact when they sleep in the 40's...IT'S A BLACK THING!!!

lmao what the fuck are you talking about? Menace was essentially saying that artists started wearing bandanas cuz of 2pac and i told him that the reason he wore it was because it became a trend in the 90's and he was mimmicking what alot of the new york thug cats used to wear. So your post should be directed at him. Or are you saying that 2pac wore it cuz he saw black women in the 40's rocking it?

LMAO this clown ass talking about who the 40's and just rambling on about random shit that dont make sense to what i said and then talk about me trying too hard? LMAO you made a fool out yourself.

READ and THEN reply my dude.

You read my post wrong of course there was people wearing bandanas before Pac

but I'm talking about after Pac the way ppl wore the bandana was similar to the way he wore it.




Co-sign, but you know niggaz will just argue to try and discredit anyways...

 
_Menace_;5622488 said:
CirocObama;5622463 said:
waterproof;5622356 said:
CirocObama;5621998 said:
@menace

I don't get it, you tryna say if a nigga wears bandana = 2pac had a influence on them? 2pac did not create or was the first one with that. Bandanas was just like jerseys a popular thing in the early 90's. Redman used to stay rocking bandanas pre 2pac and so did alot of New York street cats, which is were 2pac got that influence from. Nate rocked bandanas alot too.

nigga you trying to hard, that was a black thing first, first it was slaves that use the bandanna to keep sweat from their eyes, then black women used it to keep their hair up after slavery then brothers used it to keep their cunk intact when they sleep in the 40's...IT'S A BLACK THING!!!

lmao what the fuck are you talking about? Menace was essentially saying that artists started wearing bandanas cuz of 2pac and i told him that the reason he wore it was because it became a trend in the 90's and he was mimmicking what alot of the new york thug cats used to wear. So your post should be directed at him. Or are you saying that 2pac wore it cuz he saw black women in the 40's rocking it?

LMAO this clown ass talking about who the 40's and just rambling on about random shit that dont make sense to what i said and then talk about me trying too hard? LMAO you made a fool out yourself.

READ and THEN reply my dude.

You read my post wrong of course there was people wearing bandanas before Pac

but I'm talking about after Pac the way ppl wore the bandana was similar to the way he wore it.

I know that and once again i explained that too. What i said to @international is what i FIRST said to you, then you hit me back explaining what you meant and then i answered. LMAO dude gotta be the most ridiculous dude i've ever heard.

Like i said, 2pac wore it like that cuz of the thugged out niggas he used to hang around who wore it like that AND the way Cash Money/Ruff Ryders/Rocafella/Terror Squad etc used to wear it in the late 90's when it also became a trend, isn't that exactly what i told you before? Redman used to rock his bandanas like 2pac did prior to 2pac, Wu-Tang used to rock it like that, Das Efx and many more and in other ways before..it was a trend in the 90's. You really believe that he influenced the way they wore it? Especially since all he did was flip it backwards? C'mon dude. You might as well make up some shit about how he influenced niggas to wear baggy clothes, the hats backwards and shit like that while you're at it.

Man you niggas gotta can't be serious lmao. That's most 2pac stans though. That false perception since his death makes niggas hold him up higher and give him credits that isn't his. @Menace ain't you born in like 1990-1991? LOL no diss but like i said, false perception. You were a baby at the time yet you know that he "influenced" other rappers to wear bandanas like that? Okay.
 
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CirocObama;5622463 said:
waterproof;5622356 said:
CirocObama;5621998 said:
@menace

I don't get it, you tryna say if a nigga wears bandana = 2pac had a influence on them? 2pac did not create or was the first one with that. Bandanas was just like jerseys a popular thing in the early 90's. Redman used to stay rocking bandanas pre 2pac and so did alot of New York street cats, which is were 2pac got that influence from. Nate rocked bandanas alot too.

nigga you trying to hard, that was a black thing first, first it was slaves that use the bandanna to keep sweat from their eyes, then black women used it to keep their hair up after slavery then brothers used it to keep their cunk intact when they sleep in the 40's...IT'S A BLACK THING!!!

lmao what the fuck are you talking about? Menace was essentially saying that artists started wearing bandanas cuz of 2pac and i told him that the reason he wore it was because it became a trend in the 90's and he was mimmicking what alot of the new york thug cats used to wear. So your post should be directed at him. Or are you saying that 2pac wore it cuz he saw black women in the 40's rocking it?

LMAO this clown ass talking about who the 40's and just rambling on about random shit that dont make sense to what i said and then talk about me trying too hard? LMAO you made a fool out yourself.

READ and THEN reply my dude.

yo nigga instead of trying to sound all smart and funny and shit, you better take your own advice lil nigga because nowhere I said nothing about black women in the 40's, again you trying to hard homie....

Oh yeah it wasn't a trend in the 90's niggas was doing that shit for decades, again you trying to hard homie
 
waterproof;5622582 said:
CirocObama;5622463 said:
waterproof;5622356 said:
CirocObama;5621998 said:
@menace

I don't get it, you tryna say if a nigga wears bandana = 2pac had a influence on them? 2pac did not create or was the first one with that. Bandanas was just like jerseys a popular thing in the early 90's. Redman used to stay rocking bandanas pre 2pac and so did alot of New York street cats, which is were 2pac got that influence from. Nate rocked bandanas alot too.

nigga you trying to hard, that was a black thing first, first it was slaves that use the bandanna to keep sweat from their eyes, then black women used it to keep their hair up after slavery then brothers used it to keep their cunk intact when they sleep in the 40's...IT'S A BLACK THING!!!

lmao what the fuck are you talking about? Menace was essentially saying that artists started wearing bandanas cuz of 2pac and i told him that the reason he wore it was because it became a trend in the 90's and he was mimmicking what alot of the new york thug cats used to wear. So your post should be directed at him. Or are you saying that 2pac wore it cuz he saw black women in the 40's rocking it?

LMAO this clown ass talking about who the 40's and just rambling on about random shit that dont make sense to what i said and then talk about me trying too hard? LMAO you made a fool out yourself.

READ and THEN reply my dude.

yo nigga instead of trying to sound all smart and funny and shit, you better take your own advice lil nigga because nowhere I said nothing about black women in the 40's, again you trying to hard homie....

Oh yeah it wasn't a trend in the 90's niggas was doing that shit for decades, again you trying to hard homie

Yawn.

You're trolling.

 
Why the fuck are we bickering about bandannas? I thought we were supposed to be talking about Tupac’s greatness as an artist? LOL You can argue all you want about who’s responsible for the “thugged out” look of today’s rappers, but I think that misses the point. We’re not just talking about an artist’s image (or the originality thereof). If Tupac’s gonna be judged on anything, it’s gonna be solely on the greatness of his work.

The question is this: what makes a rap artist great? (@a_list this might answer the second part of your question) If we’re gonna liken hip hop to art, then I think we have to understand how history looks upon the greatness of artists. And believe me, it’s not just because they were considered popular (many artists have been popular at one point or another, but that doesn't mean they will be remembered 50 years from now) or that even they were acclaimed (in fact, so many artistic achievements have been lost and forgotten). I think great artists are remembered because they were able to redefine and transform their world, just by the sheer power of their work!

(1) Great art first and foremost has to be authentic, because art bares witness to life’s moments. It may be funny, it could be romantic, symbolic, or even shocking, but if it is honest, it will always be a personal statement -- revealing something true and meaningful about the artist and his world. Just think about it….when a song or album is unique and authentic, but still manages to connect with an audience, that connection becomes so much deeper than art that is only produced for mass consumption, and created for the lowest common denominator.

(2) Another hallmark of great art is that it moves people to see the world in a different way. It teaches us to observe our surroundings and see things that we have never seen before or have never looked closely enough to see. Just look at great names like Rembrandt, Leonardo Da Vinci, or Picasso; you can see how they were able to rise to greatness, because they all created works that inspired people to think differently, envision new ideals, or pursue some new agenda. That's why a great work of art will always provoke strongly felt reactions. For instance, a painting might be so beautiful that it inspires painters to imitate it. A play or book might be so radical and so revolutionary, that it might provoke people to renounce the writer as a threat to society or hail him/her as a prophet. But no matter the response, great artists will always rise to the forefront of their times and inspire change.

(3) And lastly, art that is truly great will withstand the test of time. Indeed, great art always has something timeless to it, that spans across time to impact and influence people in the present. For instance, paintings like the Mona Lisa or music like Beetoven’s 5th Symphony have the power to reach beyond their historical context to communicate to audiences in the present. That’s why we continue to be moved by artists from different times than our own. A truly great artist will continue to stand out long after they have passed from this world.

My question for ya’ll is this: If you were to take these standards seriously, do you think Tupac would top them? And just don't say it, explain it!

 
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@D_Rap_Scholar

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My Main Man Pat;5622854 said:
NothingButTheTruth;5620356 said:
Nas, Mos Def/Yasiin, Lauryn Hill

Got to agree here....2pac was one of the dudes that got me into the game but best ever? Not so sure....

you voted for Andre3000 tho... hes dope but no solo albums

idk how hes even being mentioned
 

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