THE HISTORY AND TRUTH OF THE TRUE BIBLICAL HEBREW Ysraelites

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Here's some stuff I found about Buddha prophesing the coming of Yeshua. He explains the need for the coming and death of the Holy One because "good merit" and good works can never outweigh natural sin

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Oceanic ;6377508 said:
@Ziryab

Stop posting lies. I challenge you to find the scriptural source for that passage. It definitely is not in the Tipitaka. The Buddha spoke against earning merit" (http://www.accesstoinsight.org/lib/authors/nanamoli/wheel007.html ) and taught the Buddha-dhamma til the day he died. That passage you've posted is obviously a fake. As Buddhists, we do not believe in "sin" and the Buddha taught that no one can be "saved" (http://www.buddhanet.net/dhammapada/d_self.htm )

I'm not sure what's the problem here, the passage says Buddha spoke against merit just as you are saying.

I'm not interested in competition and challenges; just a passage I found (i.e. not my claims, as I originally stated). When I make it to the library this week, I will see if I can find the source or another reference to the source that the passage cited
 
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Ziryab;6377599 said:
Oceanic ;6377508 said:
@Ziryab

Stop posting lies. I challenge you to find the scriptural source for that passage. It definitely is not in the Tipitaka. The Buddha spoke against earning merit" (http://www.accesstoinsight.org/lib/authors/nanamoli/wheel007.html ) and taught the Buddha-dhamma til the day he died. That passage you've posted is obviously a fake. As Buddhists, we do not believe in "sin" and the Buddha taught that no one can be "saved" (http://www.buddhanet.net/dhammapada/d_self.htm )

I'm not sure what's the problem here, the passage says Buddha spoke against merit just as you are saying.

I'm not interested in competition and challenges; just a passage I found (i.e. not my claims, as I originally stated). When I make it to the library this week, I will see if I can find the source or another reference to the source that the passage cited

In the passage posted, the buddha tells the brahman to continue accumulating merit in order to attain spiritual happiness while the buddha really said that merit is worldly and not spiritual. This is because merit is based on the ego. The Buddha would tell them about loving-kindness which frees one from the prison of the ego. While merit is not necessarily bad, enlightenment entails freeing oneself from the ego, thus ultimately abandoning "merit". He would not have left that as final advice for the way to "be saved".

If you're not up for challenges, what's the use of going to the library to search for what I've asked? Save yourself the time. That passage is non existent in buddhist scripture..
 
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Some time in 2003 a website from Thailand appeared on the internet with an article making an extraordinary claim – that in the 5th century BC the Buddha prophesized the coming of Jesus Christ, and that this prophesy can be found in the Buddhist scriptures, the Tipitaka. This article was quickly picked up by other websites and blogs and since then has appeared in numerous others, as well as in several publications. Now (2009) there are at least four different versions of the supposed prophesy and yet more claims about it. Below is reproduced the most common version of this prophesy.

‘When Buddha was traveling and living in this world, there was an old Brahman priest who wore white robes who asked the Buddha, “How will all men and all Brahmins continue in their merit-making so as to escape the results of sin?” The Buddha answered, “Even though all of you give alms according to the 5 precepts, the 8 precepts, the 10 precepts, or the 227 precepts for 9 trillion years and you raise your hands and offer yourselves as a burnt offering, or you pray 5 times a day, you will still not escape the results of your sins. If you do this every day, your merit gained will only be equal to the smallest strand of hair of an unborn infant which is extremely small. You shall not enter heaven’s doors.” The old Brahman priest asked further, “What are we all to do to be saved?” The Buddha answered the old Brahman priest, “The results of sin and karma are very great, heavier than the sky, thicker than the earth, and so high that it would be like an angel dusting the corner-posts of the temple compound with a cloth post that are 18 inches high - dusting them one time per year - until the posts were worn down to the ground. When the posts are worn down, that’s how long it would take to end your sins.”

The Buddha said further, “I have given up my high position and entered the priesthood. I considered that even though I am good, I would have only a very small amount of merit at the end of the year. If I was given this same amount of merit for 100,000 epochs and live 10 more lifetimes, I would not be saved from sin’s results even once.

The old Brahman priest asked further, “So what should we all do?” The Buddha answered, “Keep on making merit and look for another Holy One who will come and help the world and all of you in the future.”

Then the old Brahman priest asked, “What will the characteristics of the Holy One be like?” The Buddha answered him, “The Holy One who will keep ??? the world in the future will be like this: in the palms of his hands and in the flat of his feet will be the design of a disc, in the side will be a stab wound; and his forehead will have many marks like scars. This Holy One will be the golden boat who will carry you over the cycle of rebirths all the way to the highest heaven (Nirvana). Do not look for salvation the old way; there is no salvation in it for sure. Quit the old way. And there will be a new spirit like the light of a lightning bug in all of your hearts and you will be victorious over all your enemies. Nobody will be able to destroy you. If you die, you will not come back to be born in this world again. You will go to the highest heaven (Nirvana).” ’



 
What are we to make of the claim that the Buddha spoke these words and that they are recorded as such in the Buddhist scriptures? The first thing one notices about this passage is that its style, structure, language, the similes used, etc. are markedly different from those found in the Buddhist scriptures. For example, the Buddha is rarely referred to in the Tipitaka as ‘the Buddha’, he is almost always called and/or addressed as ‘Tathagata’ or ‘Bhagava’ (Lord). Anyone familiar with that particular labored and repetitious style characteristic of the Buddhist scriptures will notice that it is absent in this passage. The term ‘burnt offering’ has no Pali equivalent (Pali being the language of the Tipitaka) because making burnt offerings was not a practice done in ancient India. Making burnt offerings is of course mentioned in the Bible. The word sin does not really have an equivalent in Pali, although it is a well-known Christian term. The practice of praying five times a day was not a Brahmin or a Buddhist ritual either. Nowhere in the Buddhist scriptures in Nirvana thought of as a kind of heaven, although those with little or no knowledge of Buddhism often mistakenly think they are the same. But perhaps the strangest thing about this passage is that it has the Buddha implying that one is saved (again more a Christian concept than a Buddhist one, Buddhists usually speak of being ‘liberated’) by making and accumulating merit, and that it is impossible to ever accumulate enough merit to be ‘saved’. Anyone familiar with even basic Buddhism will know that this is the antithesis of what the Buddha taught. In the Sutta Nipata (Chapter 3, Discourse 2), to give but one example, Mara, the Evil One, approaches the Buddha and tempts him to stop meditating and ‘accumulate merit’ instead. The Buddha rejects this suggestion saying ‘I have not the slightest need of merit’. In Buddhism, enlightenment is not attained by accumulating merit but by developing wisdom and understanding. In another discourse, the Buddha says that making merit for the next life is ‘not worth even a sixteenth part of having a heart of love.’ (Numerical Sayings, The Eights, Discourse 1). Here and in many other places in the Tipitaka, merit is considered of very little importance in the religious life. In short, the claim that this passage comes from the Tipitaka does not seem credible.

So does it come from the Buddhist scriptures and if so from where? Just as the Bible is divided into books, chapters and verses, the Buddhist scriptures are divided into books, chapters, discourses and sometimes into verses too. Not one of the websites or publications which reproduce this supposed prophesy ever give a reference to where it comes from in the Tipitaka - not the name of the book it is supposed to be in, not the chapter, not the discourse or the verse numbers. This should make one even more suspicious about the authenticity of this passage.

I have studies Pali for 20 years and can read the Tipitaka in that language. Despite my wide knowledge of the Tipitaka I know of nowhere where this passage or anything like it occurs. In order to double check, I sent copies of the passage to eight Buddhist academic institutions in Sri Lanka, Myanmar and Thailand asking if they could identify it as being from the Buddhist scriptures or even from any post-canonical writings. I received replies from seven of these institutions which confirmed my findings. All of them said that the passage is spurious. So the conclusion is clear. The claim that the Buddha prophesized the coming of Jesus Christ and that this prophesy is in the Buddhist scriptures is fraudulent and false.

But who would commit such a fraud? Who would knowingly and deliberately lie and for what purpose? As noted above, the passage in question contains several Christian terms and biblical notions. It’s content claims that the Buddha was asking people to await the advent of someone greater than him, i.e. Jesus Christ. Further, having surfed the net I have found that this supposed prophesy only appears on Christian websites. Considering all this, the conclusion seems inescapable. Either a Christian or a group of Christians have perpetrated this fraud. But why would disciples of Christ, a teacher who insisted on the highest ethical standards, be involved in lies, deception, chicanery and fraud? Only the person or persons involved can answer that question. But as a Buddhist, I find it strange that some people are so determined to spread what they believe to be the truth, that they are even prepared to tell lies.

About a year after this hoax began circulating, two scholar monks, one in Sri Lanka and another in Cambodia, wrote refutations of it and exposed it as fraudulent. Since the publication of these refutations, more details about the supposed prophesy have appeared. One of these additions goes like this. Just before the Sixth Buddhist Council in 1956, a Thai monk received permission to copy out the whole of the Tipitaka and while doing this he discovered the prophecy. After he had finished, the authenticity and accuracy of his copy was certified by his local village headman. Later, when the Sixth Council Edition of the Tipitaka was published, the monk discovered that the Buddha’s prophecy had been deleted, and he converted to Christianity. To give this tale an air of authenticity, names, dates and places are included in it, none of which can be authenticated or refuted, which is, of course, probably their purpose. When you can’t prove a fabrication, it’s hard to disprove it also. But once again, this story does not ring true.
 
A monk would not need ‘permission’ to copy out the Tipitaka any more than you or I would need it to copy out the Bible. If the monk was learned - and he would have to be to copy out the whole of the Tipitaka – why had he not read or at least heard about this prophesy before? The Buddhist clergy have been studying their scriptures for 2000 years. Surely at some point in this monk’s education someone must have mentioned this prophecy if it had really been in the Tipitaka! That a village headman in northern Thailand in the 1950’s would know Pali, let alone known it well enough to vouch for the accuracy of a copy of the Tipitaka, stretches credibility to breaking point. Further, the Tipitaka is a huge book, 45 large volumes in the Royal Thai Edition. It would take one person several decades to accurately copy it out, check it and re-check it. Then it would take the village headman just long to check and compare, word by word, one copy with the other. And another point! Why would a monk in the 1950’s want to or need to make a copy of the Tipitaka? The Royal Thai Edition was published in the 1920s, and has been widely available ever since!

The purpose of this addition to the hoax is obvious. After it was demonstrated that the fake prophecy was not and never has been in the Tipitaka, the fraudsters, or others with the same agenda, began claiming that the prophecy was there but that it was quietly removed during the Sixth Council. It is very easy to disprove this preposterous claim. The whole of the Fifth Council Edition (1871) was engraved on marble slabs and is still available for anyone to check – and the prophecy is not there! Besides that, there are numerous ancient copies of the Tipitaka, dating from hundreds of years before the Sixth Council Edition, and none of them have the supposed prophecy in them. Not one of the many ancient manuscripts of the Tipitaka in the libraries of the Pali Text Society in the UK, and the University of Copenhagen, all of them deposited in those libraries in the 19th century, have the prophecy in them either. And one last point. In the 19th century the famous Christian missionary Reverend Spence Hardy (1813-1900) learned Pali, studied the Tipitaka in detail and wrote numerous books trying to demonstrate the superiority of Christianity over Buddhism. If this prophecy had really been in the Tipitaka before the 1956 Council, Hardy would have surely found it and highlighted it in his numerous writings and sermons. But he never mentioned it or even alluded to it. This is evidence from a Christian source that this prophecy is not and never has been in the Buddhist scriptures. So like the prophecy itself, the claim that it was removed from the Tipitaka is an impudent lie.

So what is the purpose of all this clumsy, transparent fraud? Some evangelical Christians are determined to make as many Buddhist converts as they can. To this end they are prepared to do almost anything, including using trickery, lies and deceit. The fictitious Buddha’s prophecy about Christ is but one example of this.

John Johnson

http://dhammaprotector.blogspot.com/2009/09/did-buddha-prophesize-coming-of-jesus.html
 
Using a Lie for the Truth?

By Scott Noble

This paper brings out a few reasons why Christians should not use the

Buddha's "prophecy" about Metteyya. People who use this "prophecy" say that

Metteyya is Jesus Christ, based on a text found in Northern Thailand and

some texts found elsewhere. I hope to show that in spite of an "academic"

stamp of approval for this method by John R. Davis, this method should

definitely be tossed out of the faithful Christian's arsenal of evangelistic

methods.

I. Both the form and the content betray this "prophecy".

1. The "form" is that of the old Thai language. If we are to believe this

prophecy really came from the Buddha, to be anywhere near ancient enough, it

should be written in either Pali or Sanskrit, not old Thai. This situation

is like someone coming up with another "gospel" of Jesus Christ written not

in Greek, but in old English. How much credibility would that have?

2. The "content" of this "prophecy" with it's emphasis on grace rather than

works is also in contradiction to the Pali Canon, which itself was written

down several hundred years after the Buddha, but still did not contain this

teaching of salvation by "grace." In fact, the well known Thai Buddhist

scholar P.A. Payutto has said, "No matter where Buddhism spreads to, or how

distorted the teaching becomes, this emphasis on human endeavor never

varies. If this one principle is missing, we can confidently say that it is

no longer Buddhism." If the Buddha really did make such a prophecy and

really was as a John the Baptist (pointing people to Jesus), why weren't all

of India and Asia (or at least a significant number) converted, at the first

proclamation of Jesus Christ and Him crucified? The fact stands that the

Buddha's teaching is diametrically opposed to the ways of Jesus Christ, and

this "prophecy" is nothing but a very late fabrication by someone.

II. Who is "Metteyya"?

The only prophecy of Metteyya that is in the Pali Canon speaks of him as a

Buddha (this Pali text is tottally different from the old Thai quote, though

it uses the same name- Metteyya). Since the old Thai quote uses the same

name (Metteyya in the Pali- Maitreya in the Sanskrit), referring to the Pali

Canon, we see who Metteyya is supposed to be- a Buddha- and a Buddha is

always supposed to follow a certain pattern- his mother dies when he is 7

days old, he is UNcircumcised, he must be born in India, and other things

which make him NOT Jesus Christ (e.g. he is supposed to appear when human

life spans are back to 80,000 years). The English translation (found in

John R. Davis' books) of the quotation is as follows.

"Regardless how many laws you may have kept, or even if you pray five times

a day, you shall not be saved. A sin is too great to be washed away; even

though I become a hermit for more than eight 'A-song-kai'.The Brahmin asked

what Metteyya's character is. The Buddha replied that 'in his hands and

feet are wounds, his side has a wound which was pierced and his forehead is

full of scars from wounds. He is the gold ship to carry you to heaven where

you will find the Tri-pra (the crystal Triune god). Thus give up following

the old way. A spirit from heaven will come and dwell in your heart by

which you will overcome your enemies for both four and eight directions.'"

There are a few discrepancies between this translation and the Thai version

I have. Most notable is the omission of the word nirvana (nibbana in Pali)

in the English version. Any wonder why that word was left out? In the

Thai, instead of saying "heaven" it says "nirvana heaven." Nirvana is by no

means a synonym for heaven, and in fact it was the later Mahayanists who

developed such a notion of nirvana. For a Theravadin Buddhist, nirvana is

absolute extinction, which bears no resemblance to the biblical meaning for

heaven.

Also, and this is speculation on my part, since my Thai is not at the fluent

level, but it does seem the Thai phrase "na pra gaew 3 pra gaan" could be

translated as the triple gem, namely the Buddha, the Sangha, and the Dharma.

Another question is why the title of this passage has the word for

Cambodia in it. Davis tries to say that Metteyya can be translated as

"prince of peace," however the only dictionary I found which translated this

name, translates it as "unconquerable." Again it seems he is trying a

little too hard to make it fit what it doesn't.

In the ONLY text in the Pali canon referring to Metteyya, Buddha states.

"At that period, brethren, there will arise in the world an Exalted One

named Metteyya, Arahant, Fully Awakened, abounding in wisdom and goodness,

happy, with knowledge of the worlds, unsurpassed as a guide to mortals

willing to be led, a teacher for gods and men, an Exalted One, a Buddha,

even as I am now."

He is clearly supposed to be a Buddha, following the set pattern for Buddhas.

In the commentary of the Pali Canon, being fixed in form around the 5th

century AD, but going back as far as the 1st century AD (already after

Christ, thus not a very impressive "prophecy" even if it were there), there

still is no mention such as the old Thai quote would suggest. In the

commentaries, Metteyya is still spoken of as a Buddha. Here is one example.

" In this Bhadda-eon four Buddhas arose. Which four? Kakusandha,

Konagamana, Kassapa, our Buddha, and the Lord Metteyya will arise. Thus

this eon, praised by the Lord, is called a Bhadda-eon on account of its

being much beatified by the arisings of five Buddhas."

Conclusion

Thus, since this "prophecy" did not come from the Buddha to begin with, and

both the commentaries and the Pali Canon refer to Metteyya as a Buddha, and

since both the commentaries and the Pali Canon define how a Buddha is

characterized (uncircumcised, born in India, etc.), it is absurd, and

dishonest to use this "prophecy" for Jesus Christ. Does it make any sense

to use a lie to bring people to the truth?!

Why not just preach the gospel instead of trying to find some extra-biblical

key to unlock the culture, or to "build bridges" of understanding between

"faith communities" when the separation is between man and God, not man and

man (although I could add a note here that the lifestyle of many

missionaries is quite isolated from the common man, making the gospel more

out of reach)? And the separation was caused by sin, thus a suitable

"bridge" will not be a Buddhist "prophecy" labeling Jesus Christ with the

"other god" name of Metteyya, but a proper understanding of sin, and the

only name under heaven by which men are saved- Jesus Christ. Again, the

gospel when preached and lived has the power through Jesus Christ, to do the

job, without the aid of secret keys glorifying the anthropologist and in

this case the Buddha.

http://www.letusreason.org/Ecumen14.htm
 
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I mean, if you want to know something, you might have to read once in a while. I don't know what to tell you other than that. Maybe if you read a little more, you wouldn't be out here trying to propagate b.s.
 
Hey @oceanic.......

get the fuck outta here with that bullshit........

take it to your buddha thread........

or whats left of it.......

 
MzKB;6377446 said:
@waterproof This is an excellent knowledge filled thread. Most of it to me is known fact but to have everything backed by scripture and explained in depth is even more powerful.

question I do have is many Christians of this day believe that when Yahushua died on the cross all of the sins/curses have been wiped away....How can this theory or belief still be acknowledged as truth? In others words what can be said to dispel this lie or is this even a lie?

@MzKBOne Blame it on the catholic church, that's the best answer i can give u, this theory became because the gentiles felt left out, and that's the truth...what can be saud to dispel this lie.....Scriptures hit'em with the book, the book dont lie hit them with The Messiah own words, it's right there in writing.....
 
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bambu;6386964 said:
Hey @oceanic.......

get the fuck outta here with that bullshit........

take it to your buddha thread........

or whats left of it.......

lol, i've been feeding the spirit with the word and going through trails and tribulations, test of faith and everything the devil can throw at me and come into this thread and i see this, SMH........
 
THE LAW KEEPERS



THE CREATOR IS GOD AND SAVIOR,

HE ATTESTS TO KNOWING NONE OTHER,

AND

ONLY BY LIVING HIS BOOK OF THE LAW

IS THE TRUE WALK OF RIGHTEOUSNESS

“Cursed be he that confirmeth not all the words of this law to do them …”

Deuteronomy 27:26

“And say thou unto them, Thus saith the LORD God of Israel;

Cursed be the man that obeyeth not the words of this covenant,

Which I commanded your fathers in the day that I brought them forth

out of the land of Egypt, from the iron furnace, saying,

Obey my voice, and do them, according to all which I command you:

so shall ye be my people, and I will be your God:”

Jeremiah 11:3,4

“Be still, and know that I am God: I will be exalted among the heathen,

I will be exalted in the earth.”

Psalm 46:10

“I am the LORD thy God, which have brought thee out of the land of Egypt,

out of the house of bondage.

Thou shalt have no other gods before me.”

Exodus 20:2,3


 

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