The Great Rap Debate: Can Real Hip-Hop Still Move the Crowd?

[jono]

Real hip-hop doesn't come from anywhere but the soul, like all timeless black music. What's in a (wo)mans heart isn't always pure, its not always nice but its not always bad either. Black folks like to have personal relationships with their artists. We like to be able to "feel" the song, that's the essence, that shit can't be commercialized. You can't really fake that.

Eminem gets respect because he can make shit niggas can relate to (hating his family/being bullied for being different/hating his BM/growing up poor) but he's still soulless enough to make the type of shit white people eat up.

Because blacks are a small part of any market the only way to go platinum and all that is to crossover, its always been that way. In the black musician's haste to crossover we always lose control over our music. I just want to hold on to that shit. If it means putting up with Waka Flocka that's cool as long as dude is making what's in his own heart and not playing the fool for white consumption like some of these niggas out here.

 

[StillFaggyAF]

wacka flocka sold out with that second album AND he flopped

 

[JDSTAYWITIT]

So folks askin what real hip hop gonna just ignore that most of the music you here nowadays is a influenced by major music corporations.

Im not gonna paint some rose colored revisionist history of hip hop, bboys were getin shot back in the day, graffiti artists repped gangs and niggas were sellin dope too. However we at least back then owned our culture, we owned our voice what story was gonna be told what was gonna be hot we owned it.

There were a multitude of voices and if the beat was cold half the time you got play. Lyrical complexity didnt come til about 86. Still doe the voices were ours the people made the choice. Radios didnt play songs doe so you had to go to clubs or parties to hear tracks. Actually heard people battle for lyrical supremacy. Joints still got shot up.

Theres a difference in people being ignorant and the music celebrating ignorance.

The difference between real and fake is who owns your shit. Who owns our music our style our voices and the stories we tell? Us or the labels?

you really think artist "owned" their shit in the 80's-90's bruh .....

 

[soul rattler]

anyone that raps is hip hop?

No, and not everyone that is Hip Hop raps.

who's in hip hop that doesn't rap?

Just Blaze, DJ Pharris, Jabawakees, Erykah Badu... Djs, graffiti artists, breakers... Hip Hop ain't just rap.

 

[JDSTAYWITIT]

Amotekun gets the point I was trying to make.

Yeah niggas made wack shit like Daisey Dukes and Whoomp There It Is but its because THEY wanted to make it, not because they were being forced to. What's art without artists?

Hmmmm ...

you realize they used to manufacture records for artist in Motown right? ....... i really dont know why people act as if this shit is some new phenomenon ...or just singularly identifiable in hiphop ...

 

[huey]

too many sellers not enough buyers

 

[jono]

Amotekun gets the point I was trying to make.

Yeah niggas made wack shit like Daisey Dukes and Whoomp There It Is but its because THEY wanted to make it, not because they were being forced to. What's art without artists?

Hmmmm ...

you realize they used to manufacture records for artist in Motown right? ....... i really dont know why people act as if this shit is some new phenomenon ...or just singularly identifiable in hiphop ...

You missed the point. Smokey still wrote records people can FEEL, stuff they can RELATE to. That's what made the Temptations etc hot, when they started trying to make them do disco records what happened?

 

[OrangeScissorsOSkool]

it can.. Look at slaughterhouse. Im also seeing some new talent these days and they are young, get still spitting real hip hop and creating a following. theres always a market for it. and yes it does move a crowd. Ex. Eminem

 

[JDSTAYWITIT]

Amotekun gets the point I was trying to make.

Yeah niggas made wack shit like Daisey Dukes and Whoomp There It Is but its because THEY wanted to make it, not because they were being forced to. What's art without artists?

Hmmmm ...

you realize they used to manufacture records for artist in Motown right? ....... i really dont know why people act as if this shit is some new phenomenon ...or just singularly identifiable in hiphop ...

You missed the point. Smokey still wrote records people can FEEL, stuff they can RELATE to. That's what made the Temptations etc hot, when they started trying to make them do disco records what happened?

that wasn't the point you made in which i responded to tho ..lol ... nigga tryna switch shit ... you were talking about artist being "forced" to do such n such because its hot ... and i responded by telling you that this "issue" is no new thing ..... that correlation you were trying to make between so called "forced" music and wack results is just false ... on its face .. motown was making manufactured "pop" records ... same as today .. Barry Gordy would listen to what the hottest shit on the charts was ..then make sure his artist crafted shit just like it...hmm sound familiar?

now as for your last point ...i think your talking about a completely different issue ... bad music is just bad music ... shit thats out of place is just shit thats out of place ... if the temptations made some hot disco songs or they naturally evolved into doing some alternative shit.. they would have been accepted ..thats just how the game works ..and many artist have shown the ability to do that in the past ...

the point is ... none of this shit that people are complaining about (in hiphop) is new (to music) ... the music industry is a part of mainstream culture and if your going to be at the highest level in that industry your going to need to make shit thats widely appealing ... some artist can do that naturally without loosing their "integrity" or appeal .. some cant ...and those niggas usually get stuck in the underground... bottom line is ..as the consumer theres no need to just bitch & complain about the general state of something when your the one that should be dictating the direction .. not the other way around

 

[moedays]

Real hip hop is not done for money or radio spins it's done for the love of the music, it stands the test of time and if enough people happens to like it enough to buy it, then that's good too.

 

[jono]

Amotekun gets the point I was trying to make.

Yeah niggas made wack shit like Daisey Dukes and Whoomp There It Is but its because THEY wanted to make it, not because they were being forced to. What's art without artists?

Hmmmm ...

you realize they used to manufacture records for artist in Motown right? ....... i really dont know why people act as if this shit is some new phenomenon ...or just singularly identifiable in hiphop ...

You missed the point. Smokey still wrote records people can FEEL, stuff they can RELATE to. That's what made the Temptations etc hot, when they started trying to make them do disco records what happened?

that wasn't the point you made in which i responded to tho ..lol ... nigga tryna switch shit ... you were talking about artist being "forced" to do such n such because its hot ... and i responded by telling you that this "issue" is no new thing ..... that correlation you were trying to make between so called "forced" music and wack results is just false ... on its face .. motown was making manufactured "pop" records ... same as today .. Barry Gordy would listen to what the hottest shit on the charts was ..then make sure his artist crafted shit just like it...hmm sound familiar?

now as for your last point ...i think your talking about a completely different issue ... bad music is just bad music ... shit thats out of place is just shit thats out of place ... if the temptations made some hot disco songs or they naturally evolved into doing some alternative shit.. they would have been accepted ..thats just how the game works ..and many artist have shown the ability to do that in the past ...

the point is ... none of this shit that people are complaining about (in hiphop) is new (to music) ... the music industry is a part of mainstream culture and if your going to be at the highest level in that industry your going to need to make shit thats widely appealing ... some artist can do that naturally without loosing their "integrity" or appeal .. some cant ...and those niggas usually get stuck in the underground... bottom line is ..as the consumer theres no need to just bitch & complain about the general state of something when your the one that should be dictating the direction .. not the other way around

Considering the groups in Motown weren't necessarily "forced" to sing songs written by others and had the choice of writing their own material if they could your comparison is irrelevant. But for the sake of argument you didn't follow your logic to its conclusion. The Temptations and many other artists couldn't "crossover" and make corny disco records and got played out, even worse they looked flabby & sick out there trying to do what everyone else was doing. That's what happens when you don't control your art and that's what I am talking about.

Second its not the point but you are talking about something I'm interested in and that's "integrity". That's where black folks have always gone wrong, willing to sell out for a quick nickel instead of holding out for the slow quarter. Black folks have always believed in black folks and black folks have always supported black folks but for the "industry" that's never been enough.

Corporations want constant growth, which means as an artist they are never satisfied with any level of success you attain because then the bar would rise and when you don't meet that bar you go down in flames to be ridiculed by the next generation. We've used The Temptations already, shall we use 50 Cent as well? Much more recent, same damn thing.

50 isn't going multi-platinum anymore and Interscope couldn't care less about his black ass now. All his dancing and singing made him rich (which he is lucky because a large group of sellouts end up broke as hell) but he's not relevant to the market, or the consumers anymore and its his own fault for not sticking to what made him hot: street records. Even if he fell off as the sound changed from NY street-hop to snap or crunk the respect level would be there, the integrity. The next kid could see that there is a way to make it without going the sing-song route, without selling yourself short and that shit can change the game.

Black people gotta stop being led astray by all these fancy award galas, limos and magazine covers. That shit is all for show. Your face and name are on the covers of that shit and you putting in the work singing, writing, dancing etc but you getting the smallest cut (or damn near the smallest cut). The "industry" is a racket but the consumers & the artists are being made to acquiesce to it, knowing its a sham...white folks (like Courtney Love) have been going around telling people its a sham and niggas still lust after it. That's how we lost the blues, that's how we lost Jazz & Rock N Roll it'll be the death of hip-hop too. Watch'n see.

 

[StillFaggyAF]

http://www.reppittsburghhiphop.com/2011/07/28/the-point-of-rapping/

 

[JDSTAYWITIT]

Considering the groups in Motown weren't necessarily "forced" to sing songs written by others and had the choice of writing their own material if they could your comparison is irrelevant. But for the sake of argument you didn't follow your logic to its conclusion. The Temptations and many other artists couldn't "crossover" and make corny disco records and got played out, even worse they looked flabby & sick out there trying to do what everyone else was doing. That's what happens when you don't control your art and that's what I am talking about.

Dont get it confused bruh ... Barry Gordy was in full control ... if he wasn't feeling your shit it wasn't coming out period... so you can play with the definition of "forced" all you want to but plain and simple great artist like Marvin Gaye had hits overlooked and shelved because Barry wasn't digging it .. (c) "Heard it thru the grape vine"

Secondly are you saying that current capable artist dont have the option to write their own shit? ... really? im not sure if i follow because that assertion seems quite far fetched ...record labels want hits whether they give it to you or you make it yourself...another thing that hasn't changed over the years... and lastly dont misinterpret my reasoning ... i didn't say that if you try to make the "in" music you will automatically have success ...in fact thats exactly what i did not write... lol what i said was some artist can naturally progress into different shit ..some cant ... quality is quality .. substandard is substandard ... i dont know where your drawing your interpretations from ... the only point i was making in bringing up Motown was to show that manufacturing records to stay in tune with the hot shit is nothing new .. and certainly isn't something singular to hiphop...

Second its not the point but you are talking about something I'm interested in and that's "integrity". That's where black folks have always gone wrong, willing to sell out for a quick nickel instead of holding out for the slow quarter. Black folks have always believed in black folks and black folks have always supported black folks but for the "industry" that's never been enough.

completely agree...

Corporations want constant growth, which means as an artist they are never satisfied with any level of success you attain because then the bar would rise and when you don't meet that bar you go down in flames to be ridiculed by the next generation. We've used The Temptations already, shall we use 50 Cent as well? Much more recent, same damn thing.

50 isn't going multi-platinum anymore and Interscope couldn't care less about his black ass now. All his dancing and singing made him rich (which he is lucky because a large group of sellouts end up broke as hell) but he's not relevant to the market, or the consumers anymore and its his own fault for not sticking to what made him hot: street records. Even if he fell off as the sound changed from NY street-hop to snap or crunk the respect level would be there, the integrity. The next kid could see that there is a way to make it without going the sing-song route, without selling yourself short and that shit can change the game.

sounds like pretty consistant ideology with most major businesses ... i dont think this is necessarily a bad thing tho .. i mean 50 had a lot of shit contribute to his fall off ..i dont think that saying it was all due to the record label pushing him to hard would be an accurate or thorough assessment of the situation ...i mean does fifty not have any fault in this? ...because my thinking is that he really does't care about perception as long as the dollas keep flowin in.. which is a whole nother topic all together ... artist using the music game as a "hustle" or i shouldn't even call them artist rather just opportunist ... i think that has led to a lot of shit which has fucked the music up to a certain extent (balance wise) .. but on the flipside ... now you got black exec's and label owners whereas that wasn't the case maybe 30 years ago...

Black people gotta stop being led astray by all these fancy award galas, limos and magazine covers. That shit is all for show. Your face and name are on the covers of that shit and you putting in the work singing, writing, dancing etc but you getting the smallest cut (or damn near the smallest cut). The "industry" is a racket but the consumers & the artists are being made to acquiesce to it, knowing its a sham...white folks (like Courtney Love) have been going around telling people its a sham and niggas still lust after it. That's how we lost the blues, that's how we lost Jazz & Rock N Roll it'll be the death of hip-hop too. Watch'n see.

meh .. i agree ... your a little doomey and gloomey ... but for the most part i agree ..thats why i said consumers have to understand their power ... stop bitching about how bad shit is ..like this tired ass article along with others just like it .. and go out to support the shit YOU consider "real" .... niggas out here downloading their favorite artist shit illegally then wondering why the shit dont get no play on the radio while "superbass" tears up the charts? ...lol

 

[ohhhla]

What they mean by "Real hip hop" is the traditional Hip Hop.

 

[JDSTAYWITIT]

What they mean by "Real hip hop" is the traditional Hip Hop.

Like this?

or better yet they must mean traditional as in this riiigh?

 

[TheLaureate]

Great post by OP. Noone here seems to understand it except moedays.

 

[leftcoastkev]

All BS aside, on the whole, no. Most people don't care. I don't care either.

If Real Hip Hop = 9th Wonder Little Brother 16th beat drum pattern, rappin 'bout imaginary "sucka MCs", and an adjective thrown in every other bar. I'm cool on all that.

I rarely listen to mainstream or that I wanna be hip hop purists elite bullshit either.

If the music as a whole don't move me, I ain't trying to hear it. Gotta be something to groove to. If the beat suck, I ain't gonna stay to hear the words. If the beat is sick but the rapper is babbling bout nothing, it'll get some repeats plays initially then I forget about it until I happen to run across it again.

 

[can'tyoutell]

Underground conscious rap has it's place. It can set the scene for some places, like certain night clubs that feature poetry. I can imagine going to an open mic night with talib kweli. But the makers of this kind of music lack appeal in the club when you want to drink and party. Lyrics take a back seat and it's all about what rolls of the tongue the best. What's catchy. Even if it's simple, there is no denying the power of a catchy tune. You have more fun with that. I'm not sure why, but it seems to be very hard to make conscious rap that is also catchy.

 

[leftcoastkev]

^ Solid post.

I'm not sure why, but it seems to be very hard to make conscious rap that is also catchy.

Goodie Mob had the ability to do that.

 

[LUClEN]

All this "real hip hop" shit I hear is usually coming from older people who seemingly can't accept that the genre has changed.

So to answer the question I will say this:

last year i went to a white club with a friend. When we entered the club the first song that played was Bohemian Rhapsody. Almost every damn person in there was singing along.

Classic hip hop will always have a spot, like classic rock. It just isn't what this generation relates to though.