The Great Rap Debate: Can Real Hip-Hop Still Move the Crowd?

[moedays]

Hip-hop still rocks crowds, its just not the same anymore. The culture has change, or rather been manipulated, diluted etc. I just read "Blues People" by Leroi Jones and not to my surprise what we see going on with hip-hop now, is the same thing that happened to the Blues & Jazz.

If we keep making hip-hop about money and who makes money that will be the barometer for white folks to make Eminem the GOAT MC. Its what they did with Elvis, its what they did with Paul Whiteman, etc. Those who don't learn from history are doomed to repeat it....sad part is we've seen it countless times already.

you know niggaz hate learning.

 

[soul rattler]

anyone that raps is hip hop?

No, and not everyone that is Hip Hop raps.

 

[Plutarch]

old school hip hop gets plenty of love. i was at a show and once they started playing tribe, wutang, busta, the crowd went absolutely bananas. that jawn was live.

=related

 

[StillFaggyAF]

anyone that raps is hip hop?

No, and not everyone that is Hip Hop raps.

who's in hip hop that doesn't rap?

 

[NoCompetition]

"Also we’re obviously not dealing with a generational but an intellectual gap"

disagree with this, so according tot he author, people today are dumber?

Yes people are extremely dumb down nowadays.... we are an Entertainment society meaning ppl use most of their time being entertained instead of learning.

so we're all dumb fuck compared to people 10 years ago. i can't get jiggy with that, its condescending and insulting to those of us who actually care about hip hop. The author doesn't even consider generational difference as a relevant issue. I wonder if people who grew up in the 60s and 70s thought bboys and other hip hop fans were dumb as well?

School Drop out rates are better than 10 years ago. As are crime rates. As are teen pregnancy rates. etc.,etc. People who listen to rap are generally making smarter decisions than 10 years ago. You had to have been old enough then to see how much smarter kids are now. These type people like author never make sense. They just whine about music. All they have to do is listen to what they want. Their whole position is nonsense. Nobody cares in the real world.

 

[Plutarch]

anyone that raps is hip hop?

No, and not everyone that is Hip Hop raps.

who's in hip hop that doesn't rap?

djs and producers? bboys? graffiti artists? "hip hop" movie producers? journalists? etc?

 

[StillFaggyAF]

anyone that raps is hip hop?

No, and not everyone that is Hip Hop raps.

who's in hip hop that doesn't rap?

djs and producers? bboys? graffiti artists? "hip hop" movie producers? journalists? etc?

you know what i mean. i'm talking music. the artists.

 

[Plutarch]

anyone that raps is hip hop?

No, and not everyone that is Hip Hop raps.

who's in hip hop that doesn't rap?

djs and producers? bboys? graffiti artists? "hip hop" movie producers? journalists? etc?

you know what i mean. i'm talking music. the artists.

What? A dj is not an artist? No, I don't know what you mean honestly.

 

[StillFaggyAF]

anyone that raps is hip hop?

No, and not everyone that is Hip Hop raps.

who's in hip hop that doesn't rap?

djs and producers? bboys? graffiti artists? "hip hop" movie producers? journalists? etc?

you know what i mean. i'm talking music. the artists.

What? A dj is not an artist? No, I don't know what you mean honestly.

you gonna tell me the likes of DJ Khaled are legitimate artists?

 

[usmarin3]

I hate music snobs, be it hiphop heads or indy rock fans. They always feel like they're intellectually better or up on something the rest of the world isn't on.

 

[Plutarch]

anyone that raps is hip hop?

No, and not everyone that is Hip Hop raps.

who's in hip hop that doesn't rap?

djs and producers? bboys? graffiti artists? "hip hop" movie producers? journalists? etc?

you know what i mean. i'm talking music. the artists.

What? A dj is not an artist? No, I don't know what you mean honestly.

you gonna tell me the likes of DJ Khaled are legitimate artists?

I'm not too familiar with DJ Khaled. But yes, I would say that those such as RZA, DJ Screw, Dr. Dre, Nujabes, DJ Jazzy Jeff and others are "legitimate" artists. Many DJs are producers too right? It takes a lot of skill and talent to do what they do even if we don't completely understand what they do. But from my experience, I'm sure there's a disinctive art to it all.

Back in the days, people saw hip hop, which is not only a kind of music but a culture as well, as being made up of four elements: djing, rapping, bboying, and graffiti. Although rapping today overshadows the others, the other elements still very much exist today. And there's a lot of art, talent, and creativity within those elements.

 

[StillFaggyAF]

anyone that raps is hip hop?

No, and not everyone that is Hip Hop raps.

who's in hip hop that doesn't rap?

djs and producers? bboys? graffiti artists? "hip hop" movie producers? journalists? etc?

you know what i mean. i'm talking music. the artists.

What? A dj is not an artist? No, I don't know what you mean honestly.

you gonna tell me the likes of DJ Khaled are legitimate artists?

I'm not too familiar with DJ Khaled. But yes, I would say that those such as RZA, DJ Screw, Dr. Dre, Nujabes, DJ Jazzy Jeff and others are "legitimate" artists. Many DJs are producers too right? It takes a lot of skill and talent to do what they do even if we don't completely understand what they do. But from my experience, I'm sure there's a disinctive art to it all.

Back in the days, people saw hip hop, which is not only a kind of music but a culture as well, as being made up of four elements: djing, rapping, bboying, and graffiti. Although rapping today overshadows the others, the other elements still very much exist today. And there's a lot of art, talent, and creativity within those elements.

I'm talking specifically about DJ Khaled

 

[Plutarch]

anyone that raps is hip hop?

No, and not everyone that is Hip Hop raps.

who's in hip hop that doesn't rap?

djs and producers? bboys? graffiti artists? "hip hop" movie producers? journalists? etc?

you know what i mean. i'm talking music. the artists.

What? A dj is not an artist? No, I don't know what you mean honestly.

you gonna tell me the likes of DJ Khaled are legitimate artists?

I'm not too familiar with DJ Khaled. But yes, I would say that those such as RZA, DJ Screw, Dr. Dre, Nujabes, DJ Jazzy Jeff and others are "legitimate" artists. Many DJs are producers too right? It takes a lot of skill and talent to do what they do even if we don't completely understand what they do. But from my experience, I'm sure there's a disinctive art to it all.

Back in the days, people saw hip hop, which is not only a kind of music but a culture as well, as being made up of four elements: djing, rapping, bboying, and graffiti. Although rapping today overshadows the others, the other elements still very much exist today. And there's a lot of art, talent, and creativity within those elements.

I'm talking specifically about DJ Khaled

Like I said, I'm not too familiar with DJ Khlaed. So I mentioned other DJs whom I am familiar with. Why does it even matter? Even if DJ Khaled was trash (which would only mean that he's a bad artist btw), that doesnt mean that there aren't other DJs who aren't trash.

Remember, this whole argument started because you implied that nobody in hip hop doesn't rap. Whatever happened to the djs, producers, bboys, etc that I brought up? How did we get to just talking about DJ Khaled as if he's the only person that matters in this argument. He's irrelevant.

 

[StillFaggyAF]

anyone that raps is hip hop?

No, and not everyone that is Hip Hop raps.

who's in hip hop that doesn't rap?

djs and producers? bboys? graffiti artists? "hip hop" movie producers? journalists? etc?

you know what i mean. i'm talking music. the artists.

What? A dj is not an artist? No, I don't know what you mean honestly.

you gonna tell me the likes of DJ Khaled are legitimate artists?

I'm not too familiar with DJ Khaled. But yes, I would say that those such as RZA, DJ Screw, Dr. Dre, Nujabes, DJ Jazzy Jeff and others are "legitimate" artists. Many DJs are producers too right? It takes a lot of skill and talent to do what they do even if we don't completely understand what they do. But from my experience, I'm sure there's a disinctive art to it all.

Back in the days, people saw hip hop, which is not only a kind of music but a culture as well, as being made up of four elements: djing, rapping, bboying, and graffiti. Although rapping today overshadows the others, the other elements still very much exist today. And there's a lot of art, talent, and creativity within those elements.

I'm talking specifically about DJ Khaled

Like I said, I'm not too familiar with DJ Khlaed. So I mentioned other DJs whom I am familiar with. Why does it even matter? Even if DJ Khaled was trash (which would only mean that he's a bad artist btw), that doesnt mean that there aren't other DJs who aren't trash.

Remember, this whole argument started because you implied that nobody in hip hop doesn't rap. Whatever happened to the djs, producers, bboys, etc that I brought up? How did we get to just talking about DJ Khaled as if he's the only person that matters in this argument. He's irrelevant.

i meant right now, in the mainstream culture. The emcee part of hip hop has completly overshadowed everything now to the point that most people arent even aware of the other piallars

 

[Amotekun]

So folks askin what real hip hop gonna just ignore that most of the music you here nowadays is a influenced by major music corporations.

Im not gonna paint some rose colored revisionist history of hip hop, bboys were getin shot back in the day, graffiti artists repped gangs and niggas were sellin dope too. However we at least back then owned our culture, we owned our voice what story was gonna be told what was gonna be hot we owned it.

There were a multitude of voices and if the beat was cold half the time you got play. Lyrical complexity didnt come til about 86. Still doe the voices were ours the people made the choice. Radios didnt play songs doe so you had to go to clubs or parties to hear tracks. Actually heard people battle for lyrical supremacy. Joints still got shot up.

Theres a difference in people being ignorant and the music celebrating ignorance.

The difference between real and fake is who owns your shit. Who owns our music our style our voices and the stories we tell? Us or the labels?

 

[Plutarch]

anyone that raps is hip hop?

No, and not everyone that is Hip Hop raps.

who's in hip hop that doesn't rap?

djs and producers? bboys? graffiti artists? "hip hop" movie producers? journalists? etc?

you know what i mean. i'm talking music. the artists.

What? A dj is not an artist? No, I don't know what you mean honestly.

you gonna tell me the likes of DJ Khaled are legitimate artists?

I'm not too familiar with DJ Khaled. But yes, I would say that those such as RZA, DJ Screw, Dr. Dre, Nujabes, DJ Jazzy Jeff and others are "legitimate" artists. Many DJs are producers too right? It takes a lot of skill and talent to do what they do even if we don't completely understand what they do. But from my experience, I'm sure there's a disinctive art to it all.

Back in the days, people saw hip hop, which is not only a kind of music but a culture as well, as being made up of four elements: djing, rapping, bboying, and graffiti. Although rapping today overshadows the others, the other elements still very much exist today. And there's a lot of art, talent, and creativity within those elements.

I'm talking specifically about DJ Khaled

Like I said, I'm not too familiar with DJ Khlaed. So I mentioned other DJs whom I am familiar with. Why does it even matter? Even if DJ Khaled was trash (which would only mean that he's a bad artist btw), that doesnt mean that there aren't other DJs who aren't trash.

Remember, this whole argument started because you implied that nobody in hip hop doesn't rap. Whatever happened to the djs, producers, bboys, etc that I brought up? How did we get to just talking about DJ Khaled as if he's the only person that matters in this argument. He's irrelevant.

i meant right now, in the mainstream culture. The emcee part of hip hop has completly overshadowed everything now to the point that most people arent even aware of the other piallars

I'm still not sure if I'm following you. So you're saying that today, right now, the only "legitimate" artists in mainstream hip hop music are rappers? I'd still have to disagree. But if you're saying that the only successful or popular artists in mainstream hip hop music today are rappers, then I might agree.

I still don't know about DJ Khaled, but just because you don't hear or see about DJ Premier or DJ Muggs (who are both still making hip hop music), doesn't mean that they aren't "legitimate" artists. And I wouldn't know too much about this, but with everything being digital nowadays, djing has been through a lot of evolving. I don't think that you need a turntable nowadays.

wll i got some business to take care of, so i'm out for now.

 

[NoCompetition]

I was teens/20s in the 90s. Really its no difference between the music now and in the 90's or whenever. It was always about what was popular and made the stations, labels, etc. money. It just evolved to new sounds. South people are more content, because thats the type of music that is most popular. When I see these type arguments it says to me "I wish what i wanted was popular". Everybody sees through it so they disregard these types of arguments.Bottom line its all about what everybody involved can make the most money off of. All the rest is irrelevant. end of discussion.

 

[jono]

Amotekun gets the point I was trying to make.

Yeah niggas made wack shit like Daisey Dukes and Whoomp There It Is but its because THEY wanted to make it, not because they were being forced to. What's art without artists?

 

[NeighborhoodNomad.]

@Amotekun. That's real.

But I think we're missing a key element; What is real? What is fake?

Real is authentic, tested and proven.

Fake is fantasy, and its a whole lot of people tryin to run away.

And as far as the author goes, throwin darts at Pac... Pac wasn't on no murda music level. It was LIFE music. And in order to truly live, some might have to die. C. Delores Tucker was either a puppet or ignorant.

 

[can'tyoutell]

@Plutarch, all you had to say was that hip hop is a culture. I don't think the guy you were arguing with understood that point. And yes, dj khaled does make hip hop music. He's an executive producer. He doesn't play xbox all day and steal music for commercial release. What directors do for film, he does for music.

Can real hip hop still move the crowd? Hmm, I don't think you are going to get a consensus on what real hip hop is. I know from the article that you are using conscious rap with meaningful lyrics as substitute for real hip hop. We all know, but we don't all agree. We get it, a lot of the mainstream puts out garbage. It was really bad in the early 2000's. If you made this thread in the early 2000's, everybody and their mom would have cosigned you. Ish was terrible. Niggas like lil bow wow, nelly, and ludacris were eating back then. The only reason 50 came out like he did was because the quality of music was at an all time low. Not knockin' ja rule by the way, because he crafted good songs.

Today, the game is different. Back then, all an artist had to do to make money was make one hot record and then live off his name. After an artist became popular, throw away tracks by throwaway producers was sufficient, as long as there was a good music video. Today, you can't just put out garbage with a good music video. That's why a lot of rappers from the early 2000's are dead now, because they followed a really shitty formula. Make one hot record, and then live off your name. Country grammar was hot and stands the test of time. When the last time you bumped pimp juice? *shudders*

When music videos became less important, songs became more important. Hip hop is in a good place right now.