alissowack;6781840 said:
no shyt.. The Essenes teach that the old testament god is the DEMIURGE which is the same as Gnostics..
http://www.essene.com/Gospels/GnosticAndSophia.html
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beenwize;6782016 said:
BECAUSE i have no faith in the writings of the essenes they started around the 2nd century bc but the torah is much older than that. I am a christain i believe the teachings of christ are true. what would i care about some off branch sect of judaism that no longer exists says.
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zombie;6782050 said:
the torah very much could be much older than that, but do you have the original torah to see if it is the same as yours? NO! in fact when you seek truth you will know and understand that what you have is a corruption. You are a King James "version" Christian. You accept what the Roman church deemed was the teachings of Christ and you think not to seek on your own.
Jeremiah 8:8
How do ye say, We are wise, and the law of the LORD is with us? Lo, certainly in vain made he it; the pen of the scribes is in vain.
Isaiah 10:1
Woe unto them that decree unrighteous decrees, and that write grievousness which they have prescribed;
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bambu;6782064 said:
False! how can you prove that the old testament god is not gnostic or essene demiurge when if you clicked that link you will be debunked? lol smh
This is from the Book of Jude the Essene and it debunks what you thought you debunked once you click this link.
http://books.google.com/books?id=C62J78xkviEC&pg=PA184&lpg=PA184&dq=essenes+demiurge&source=bl&ots=S6oGbe5PHK&sig=82mynbbUoFHO5QbtFaaDPLyAiMQ&hl=en&sa=X&ei=tLX_Ut2sCca9yAHM9oEQ&ved=0CD0Q6AEwAw#v=onepage&q=essenes%20demiurge&f=false
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beenwize;6782062 said:
I don't have to have the fist torah i believe in the one that exist right now.
and for the 1,000,000 time there are other translations of the bible besides the kjv and i have told you already i don't think the jkv has the perfect cannon and the kjv is not even the catholic version you really are lost.
zombie;6782075 said:
ofcourse the kjv is not the catholic version, but it was still authorized by the same workers of evil that created the catholic version. it all comes from the same ppl regardless of what the Roman church uses. You are the lost one because you accept what man has given you instead of using your own brain. you are a walking zombie and brain dead.
beenwize;6782083 said:
The catholic version and the jkv were put together centuries apart SO NO they were not put together by the same people and i already told you in other threads that i think the ethopian cannon is the best one.
You are a sick person that hewbrew isralite group you were part of screwed with your mind.
zombie;6782110 said:
that darkness has blinded your eyes.. your own scripture calls you a liar and you are so deluded in your indoctrinated belief system that you fight tooth and nail to defend the lie that you only by deception hold as truth.
2 Kings 2:23-24
23 And he went up from thence unto Bethel: and as he was going up by the way, there came forth little children out of the city, and mocked him, and said unto him, Go up, thou bald head; go up, thou bald head.
24 And he turned back, and looked on them, and cursed them in the name of the Lord. And there came forth two she bears out of the wood, and tare forty and two children of them.
beenwize;6782135 said:
the words used there for little children is na'ar ketannim which really means they were young men not little children if you would read the passage in context and think about it your baseless opinion would fall from your eyes what the fuck would 42 little children be doing out in the wild were they could get attacked by bears?
anyway i am bored with you now
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Satan is the father of LIES......while Jehova is the GodFather of Lies...1 Kings 22:23
Now, therefore, behold, the Lord hath put a lying spirit in the mouth of these thy prophets, and the Lord hath spoken evil concerning thee.
2 Chronicles 18:22
Now therefore, behold, the Lord hath put a lying spirit in the mouth of these thy prophets.
Jeremiah 4:10
Ah, Lord GOD! surely thou hast greatly deceived this people.
Jeremiah 20:7
O Lord, thou hast deceived me, and I was deceived.
Ezekiel 14:9
And if a prophet be deceived when he hath spoken a thing, I the Lord have deceived that prophet.
2 Thessalonians 2:11
For this cause God shall send them strong delusion, that they should believe a li
Now, therefore, behold, the Lord hath put a lying spirit in the mouth of these thy prophets, and the Lord hath spoken evil concerning thee.
2 Chronicles 18:22
Now therefore, behold, the Lord hath put a lying spirit in the mouth of these thy prophets.
Jeremiah 4:10
Ah, Lord GOD! surely thou hast greatly deceived this people.
Jeremiah 20:7
O Lord, thou hast deceived me, and I was deceived.
Ezekiel 14:9
And if a prophet be deceived when he hath spoken a thing, I the Lord have deceived that prophet.
2 Thessalonians 2:11
For this cause God shall send them strong delusion, that they should believe a li
zombie;6782176 said:
so little men came and mocked him? little men still would equal children. you don't call a 17 or 18 year old "little." and either way it was 42 of these children. are you telling me they all were the same exact age? lol I don't think so u liar.
Strong's Concordance
naar: a boy, lad, youth, retainer
Original Word: נַ֫עַר
Part of Speech: Noun Masculine
Transliteration: naar
Phonetic Spelling: (nah'-ar)
In their own era, they made a huge impact, drawing thousands to hear of Christianity, the new religion inspired by the prophet Jesus Christ. They taught that the path to liberation lay in the attainment of Gnosis, the knowledge of sacred truths of the spiritual universe. They said that each human being is the inheritor of a divine spark, a bit of fire given by the hand of God. Most men do not realize this fire within and live in ignorance of their true nature, but Jesus' life had as its mission the purpose of reminding humanity of its true nature. He demonstrated, through his life and death, the way to freedom and taught the secrets of the ascent.
The Gnostics wrote of an ongoing relationship with Jesus, even years after his death, through revelation and vision. They knew the sciences of astronomy, divination, and healing, and the great mysteries of human origin and immortality. They were brave enough and bold enough to lay claim to this birthright, like Prometheus, who stole the sacred fire from the very gods themselves.
But like Prometheus they were destined to suffer mightily for their daring, for bit by bit their schools were condemned, their voices hushed to a bare whisper. Their sacred and treasured writings, the mystical words of the beloved Teacher, were destroyed with hardly a trace by a Christian orthodoxy that was wedded too irrevocably to the political power of the Roman State.
The Gnostics wrote of an ongoing relationship with Jesus, even years after his death, through revelation and vision. They knew the sciences of astronomy, divination, and healing, and the great mysteries of human origin and immortality. They were brave enough and bold enough to lay claim to this birthright, like Prometheus, who stole the sacred fire from the very gods themselves.
But like Prometheus they were destined to suffer mightily for their daring, for bit by bit their schools were condemned, their voices hushed to a bare whisper. Their sacred and treasured writings, the mystical words of the beloved Teacher, were destroyed with hardly a trace by a Christian orthodoxy that was wedded too irrevocably to the political power of the Roman State.
this is the gnostic view on the demiurge @bambu
Denigration of the Demiurge
In the Palestine of Jesus' day people in general viewed their Gods as intimately watchful of their private lives. Personal success was counted as a demonstration of righteousness -- failure and misfortune as punishment for wrongdoing. Worship was, therefore, centered around placating the Gods. The Jewish priesthood held an iron grip on the minds of the people. Their temples were the center of sacrificial rites, and worshippers went to great expense to mollify the Gods.
In breaking free of this narrow religious model, the Gnostics directly confronted the Jewish idea of God. Because of the biblical descriptions of him as a jealous and wrathful God, they introduced the idea that Jehovah, whom they called the Demiurge (Gk. demiourgos, builder or public worker) is not the highest God, the Unknown God over all, but a much lower one. He is merely one of the lower emanations, the builder of the physical planet earth, and though powerful in his own sphere of material creation, overall he occupies a very low plane on the ladder of evolution. They said, in fact, that humanity could surpass the Demiurge in spiritual attainment.
Blavatsky expresses this idea of the lower and the higher creators (emanations) in her concept of creative hierarchies, classes of beings or entities which are responsible for producing the various kingdoms and forms of manifested life. She says that there are seven hierarchies which fashion our present world. The four lower are responsible for purely physical creation, the world of forms visible to the eye. The three higher groups, though, cannot work on the physical plane. They create in subtle matter, producing thought, intuition and spiritual faculties that the human kingdom is just beginning to sense.
She says that Jehovah belongs to one of the lower class of creators. He is able to create purely physical man but cannot endow him with the spark of mind and soul that will enable him to become truly human. That Divine Spark has to come from a higher plane. In this sense the Gnostics could make the claim (considered outrageous at the time) that humankind could surpass Jehovah, the Demiurge.
Because humanity has been endowed with a soul, fashioned by the higher order of creators, it belongs to an order of evolution beyond the physical, and can, therefore, aspire to the heights of the spiritual kingdom. The Gnostics considered those who worshipped the Demiurge to be centered on the material plane; they had not yet found their connection to the spiritual universe. It is the attainment of the human stage of evolution that marks the transition from the lower world of the physical into a higher spiritual realm.
Ideas such as these were bound to cause great resentment in both Jewish and orthodox Christian circles and further threaten an already tenuous relationship with these groups, but few there were who could grasp the subtle distinctions that the Gnostics drew. The Gnostics understood God on a mystical level and suggested a much more mature relationship. Instead of being at the whim of the Gods, they spoke of man himself as a potential god, with the capability of assuming power over the physical world. Thus could Jesus heal the sick and walk on water. This the Gnostics understood.
Denigration of the Demiurge
In the Palestine of Jesus' day people in general viewed their Gods as intimately watchful of their private lives. Personal success was counted as a demonstration of righteousness -- failure and misfortune as punishment for wrongdoing. Worship was, therefore, centered around placating the Gods. The Jewish priesthood held an iron grip on the minds of the people. Their temples were the center of sacrificial rites, and worshippers went to great expense to mollify the Gods.
In breaking free of this narrow religious model, the Gnostics directly confronted the Jewish idea of God. Because of the biblical descriptions of him as a jealous and wrathful God, they introduced the idea that Jehovah, whom they called the Demiurge (Gk. demiourgos, builder or public worker) is not the highest God, the Unknown God over all, but a much lower one. He is merely one of the lower emanations, the builder of the physical planet earth, and though powerful in his own sphere of material creation, overall he occupies a very low plane on the ladder of evolution. They said, in fact, that humanity could surpass the Demiurge in spiritual attainment.
Blavatsky expresses this idea of the lower and the higher creators (emanations) in her concept of creative hierarchies, classes of beings or entities which are responsible for producing the various kingdoms and forms of manifested life. She says that there are seven hierarchies which fashion our present world. The four lower are responsible for purely physical creation, the world of forms visible to the eye. The three higher groups, though, cannot work on the physical plane. They create in subtle matter, producing thought, intuition and spiritual faculties that the human kingdom is just beginning to sense.
She says that Jehovah belongs to one of the lower class of creators. He is able to create purely physical man but cannot endow him with the spark of mind and soul that will enable him to become truly human. That Divine Spark has to come from a higher plane. In this sense the Gnostics could make the claim (considered outrageous at the time) that humankind could surpass Jehovah, the Demiurge.
Because humanity has been endowed with a soul, fashioned by the higher order of creators, it belongs to an order of evolution beyond the physical, and can, therefore, aspire to the heights of the spiritual kingdom. The Gnostics considered those who worshipped the Demiurge to be centered on the material plane; they had not yet found their connection to the spiritual universe. It is the attainment of the human stage of evolution that marks the transition from the lower world of the physical into a higher spiritual realm.
Ideas such as these were bound to cause great resentment in both Jewish and orthodox Christian circles and further threaten an already tenuous relationship with these groups, but few there were who could grasp the subtle distinctions that the Gnostics drew. The Gnostics understood God on a mystical level and suggested a much more mature relationship. Instead of being at the whim of the Gods, they spoke of man himself as a potential god, with the capability of assuming power over the physical world. Thus could Jesus heal the sick and walk on water. This the Gnostics understood.
Black Boy King
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All things belong to those
For the cleanliness and the power, the first in the nation
To prove who they are
For the cleanliness and the power, the first in the nation
To prove who they are
@beenwise.....
bambu;4656608 said:LOL.....
Here we go again....
The demiurge is a concept from the Platonic, Neopythagorean, Middle Platonic, and Neoplatonic schools of philosophy for an artisan-like figure responsible for the fashioning and maintenance of the physical universe. The term was subsequently adopted by the Gnostics. Although a fashioner, the demiurge is not necessarily thought of as being the same as the creator figure in the familiar monotheistic sense, because both the demiurge itself plus the material from which the demiurge fashions the universe are considered either uncreated and eternal, or the product of some other being, depending on the system.
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