so is it safe to say Goku/Vegeta on supersaiyan 4 would get there ass whooped by Thanos?

[DarkRaiden]

@Doctopian why you clowning like thanos isnt an energy manipulator wielding power cosmic?

Thanos also has the ability to move fast as hell too, his speed stats are at about a 5 or 6 out of 7.

The one chance Goku and Vegita have to defeat Thanos would be to fuse into Gogeta or Vegitto if they had the rings.

Gogeta is the most powerful character in the DBZ verse especially at SSJ4 when he took on Omega Shenron.

Gogeta at SSJ3 has a PL of 2.5 Billion. 2.5 Billion relative to what though? If we take the 50 times multiplier which is

so commonly used 2.5 billion x 50 = 125 billion. If that is the constant. So IMO that represents their best shot at beating Thanos.

I neglected mentioning energy projection for the Saiyans and Thanos (I consider their energy projection to be roughly equal in practice), and Thanos speed stat is based on the fact that he is a teleporter. To be completely honest, I see this fight going a lot like Thanos' confrontation with the Runner during Thanos Quest. Granted the Runner is far faster than any DBZ character.

Energy projection isn't close tbh. Goku and Vegeta max out at planet busting while Thanos's energy blast hurt the likes of Surfer who can tank a Supernova with ease, ergo far above planet busting. Also his speed can't be based of teleporting because Marvel gives teleporters an automatic 7/7. Him having less than that means it's his raw speed.

 

[Doctopian]

What is it with you and treating high end stuff like it's the character typical showings? Are you really claiming that only supernova level energy can hurt Surfer? Or that Thanos casually fires energy blast off of that magnitude. Considering the largest o object any of these characters have destroyed is a planet, I will stick to my claim that they are roughly equal rather than making Hulk-like logical leaps to put one over the other.

And last I checked, Thanos speed was ranked at a seven.

 

[ohhhla]

DB characters can't compare to Marvel or DC characters.

WTF?

 

[Amotekun]

I blame the DBZ manga and anime writers. They didnt do a good job in properly showing/detailing the scaling powers of saiyans. If Nappa and Vegeta are destroying planets at a PL of 4000 and 18000 respectively then when these niggas jump into the hundreds of thousands and into the millions by the end of the Frieza saga surely they should be able to easily bust a planet. However we've never seen it....but logic would have use inductive reasoning to come to the conclusion that is a nigga is bustin a planet at 18000 what he can do at level 10x higher should reflect that as well. The ease of planet busting through energy projectiles is ridiculous.

I specify energy projectiles simply because as someone pointed out before hand PL does not necessarily translate into raw strength. The two arent correlated. Its not like its a form of TK which can be focused inwards.

::Can't believe Im lookin up this shit again::

So in a head to head match up with Thanos again I focus on Gogeta because he's the strongest reported DBZ character in the universe with a PL of 2.5 billi. THe only thing that can be said for certain is that his energy projection is at that level 2.5B his raw strength level is X but we can assume its only a fraction of his PL.

Gogeta PL using inductive reasoning again is easily planet busting and potentially effective enough to destroy a whole solar system. I wont say galaxy because a galaxy is big as fuck.

Simply because of the lack of stamina that DBZ characters have their PLs decrease over time, I give the battle to Thanos 7/10

I think this is the most reasonable outlook. I stress Gogeta because inevitably thats what a Vegeta GOku v Thanos will come down to, fusion, much like when they fought Janemba.

 

[Doctopian]

Amo, I have a similar outlook regarding their actually strength vs. their ki manipulation/ energy projection, but I hesitate to scale it that way because the feats to support it simply aren't there. We see planets destroyed with a flick of the wrist with guys like Broly and Buu, but it is still merely planet being destroyed. That said, I was tempted to give them the edge in energy projection until I remembered Thanos destroyed a planet in his fight with Drax two power ups ago.

Now that i think about it, guys like Thanos and Drax suffer from the same inconsistent power displays as DBZ characters. Thanos and Drax's high ranking space cheese feats occurred when they were at their weakest canonically.

 

[Amotekun]

Really planet busting should be a major feat. Like to writers actually take into consideration the amount of energy it would take to make a planet completely combust and explode?

Not even an asteroid hurtling through space is planet busting. Surface world fuckupable yes. Planet destroying. No.

Writers act like planets are giant hollow spheres of papier mache.

So when someone has planet busting power that means they are bombarding the planet with energy hundred of times greater than the sun.

So I can only take planet busting as a the cheese feat that it is. The only people that should be capable of destroying planets should be those capable of unleashing an incalculable amount of energy like on a super red giant scale.

Phoenix is planet busting/burning melting. Abstracts and gods should be planet busting. Thanos really shouldnt be planet busting, civilization destroying, sure why not.

 

[DarkRaiden]

1. Look at Marvel.com, Thanos has a 6 in speed, not a 7, thus it's not accounting for his teleportation.

2. Marvel.com itself and Marvel's wikia love to state in Surfer's powers how he can stand in the middle of a supernova unharmed. It's supposed to be his base durability. Not to mention he's fought in the middle of blackholes unaffected. So yes, because Thanos can hurt him consistently and even kill him, his blasts are stronger than a supernova

3. Thanos has also battled and hurt the likes of Odin and Galactus under his own power, planet busting is nothing to them, so clearly he is above that.

4. Gogeta has no official powerlevel, Vegetto or Vegito(however you spell it) is much stronger. Gogeta and the dance fusion was stated (Goku+Vegeta)X8000. Vegito is GokuxVegeta. Friexa was 120 mil, Goku and Vegeta at base are much stronger and are at least 150 mil. That puts Vegito at 2.25 x 10 ^16 powerlevel, before a x50 powerup to SSJ. But that is irrelevant as PL is only comparable to other DBZ characters and Vegito has shown no powers above Planet Busting.

5. No DBZ character has reached light speed, Thanos's 6 means he is light speed w/o teleporting.

6. DBZ characters have proven to be physically weak and non durable as their weak punches hurt each other. Thanos hits with the strength of at least a planet busting attack. In DBZ everytime a planet buster is launched, the characters state it will kill them regardless of strength.

 

[jaxn]

Goku at base was struggling with 40 tons, SSJ was when he did it easily.

so he exercises with 40 tons easily as you say, but then you go on to say he caps off at 40 tons????

At most that's a 50x increase, SSJ2 is 2, and SSJ3 is 4x. But as we know, strength isn't linear with PL.

actually we don't know that since it was never specified by AT. What we do know is that they get stronger with each power up

The point is that Vegeta at 18,000 is a planet buster, as is Buu. Buu wanted to destroy everything as did Cell. Neither did and only destroyed a planet. Thus until proven otherwise they are planet busters at best.

Buu was destroying galaxies when he fist came into being. so i'd say its pretty much proven. Buu was defeated before he could destroy everything and Cell never wanted to do that in the first place. He just wanted a good fight.

Thanos has hit Silver Surfer, Silver Surfer moves at light speed +, thus Thanos's reflexes are at least light speed timing.

the hell kind of logic is that? so because he was able to hit Surfer that mean he has ftl reflexes? I guess Thing has ftl reflexes too. Spiderman as well, hell, BP, the Hulk and Thor do to. So does the Rhino, since they were all able to hit the surfer.

Oh and Goku describes IT as light speed and everyone in DBZ is amazed at it and say it's the fastest technique, this implies they are not light speed. Also they have to prove light speed, and until then are slower than it.

no, Goku described it as instant transmission, as in teleportation...that is all. It has nothing to do with speed, unless you think Goku is flying/running to different planets. I guess he's so fast he can run/fly to Kami's world too

I said at base he's max 40 tons. And he is. At SSJ, he trains easily. All I said was he's max 40 tons at base, which is true. And we do know from context clues that PL does not equal strength. In Dragonball, Roshi destroyed a Moon and Goku moved a rock that was a good 5-10 tons at least, both at less than 200 PL. At over 150,000,000 PL Goku struggles with 40 tons. He should be at millions of tons, but he's not. Thus PL isn't linear with strength.

No you said he caps off at 40 tons. your numbers are irrelevant.

Also Buu has never destroyed a galaxy in one go. The most he is shown to destroy at once is a planet. Thus he is a planet buster and a planet buster only.

I'm going to go off the word of the Kai's who were present to witness Buu's destruction.

Thanos regularly tags Surfer and Surfer level beings who are light speed +. Since he does it consistently and not a one off like Spidey, Thing, etc. (Surfer was holding back btw, he wasn't holding back against Thanos).

this logic is faulty. Thanos isn't tagging guys moving at ftl speeds. Surfer isn't moving at ftl speeds when he's hit.

Once again, it takes more than 1 second for DBZ people to travel and/or have a fight. Thus they aren't light speed as light speed is much faster than that and than they move. They have nothing that hints at light speed and are at best hypersonic, at worst massively supersonic.

Thanos stomps.

your logic makes no sense whatsoever. you're using speed as a means for Thanos to defeat a character when Thanos doesn't use superspeed even remotely close to what you're describing.

 

[jaxn]

You should have capped it at SSj 3, as GT introduces all sorts of inconsistent shit that makes no sense.

In my opinion, this fight comes down to the Saiyans speed and skill vs. Thanos durability, endurance, and strength. I'm of the mind that the Saiyans' speed can make up for their questionable durability. And don't me that stuff about Thanos tagging heralds as their combat speed isn't remotely comparable to their travel speed.

Eh, Herald's tend to fight fast from time to time, so IMO it's quantifiable. Also Goku nor Vegeta have proven combat speed that's above Thanos's. Until that's proven, they are speed blitzed and beat down. If they do prove it, they get mind raped.

but Thanos doesn't use combat speed..at all..but the other two you've mentioned do all the time.

 

[jaxn]

Amo, I have a similar outlook regarding their actually strength vs. their ki manipulation/ energy projection, but I hesitate to scale it that way because the feats to support it simply aren't there. We see planets destroyed with a flick of the wrist with guys like Broly and Buu, but it is still merely planet being destroyed. That said, I was tempted to give them the edge in energy projection until I remembered Thanos destroyed a planet in his fight with Drax two power ups ago.

Now that i think about it, guys like Thanos and Drax suffer from the same inconsistent power displays as DBZ characters. Thanos and Drax's high ranking space cheese feats occurred when they were at their weakest canonically.

most folks in comics suffer from such inconsistencies. No top tier characters should have trouble with mid-tier characters are below. The difference between DBZ and Marvel/DC imo is that when they talk of releasing power great enough to destroy a planet or actually destroy one, it's done with little effort. Frieza destroyed planet Vegeta while laughing and in his weakest form..when Cell fired that kamehamea wave at Gohan, it was easily strong enough to destroy the planet..Gohan sent a wave back that was far more powerful and he did it casually.

 

[smittysmith]

Well, even if its SS3 or SS4 Gogeta the transformations require too much energy to sustain for long periods of time. So, that means they have to get the job done quickly before they break up or lose all of their energy. And Thanos is not be blitzed by anybody.

Thanos KO in 5

 

[Dupac]

shit's way too inconsistent imo....

frieza destroyed planet vegeta easily....

yet it took planet namek like 2 hours to blow up...

buu can rip through dimensions with a shout....supposedly destroyed galaxies in his first form... it took all the gods (kais) collectively to stop him

the fused ssj3 was wrecking him...

so i mean in the end of dbz it's safe to say the fused ssj3 was the most powerful being in the universe...being stronger than a being that took all the gods collectively to stop.....

the only way to say that thanos wins is to say the marvel universe as a whole is simply stronger then the dbz universe....

because thanos isn't the strongest character in all of marvel... but goku fused with vegeta is the absolute strongest in the dbz universe

 

[DarkRaiden]

shit's way too inconsistent imo....

frieza destroyed planet vegeta easily....

yet it took planet namek like 2 hours to blow up...

buu can rip through dimensions with a shout....supposedly destroyed galaxies in his first form... it took all the gods (kais) collectively to stop him

the fused ssj3 was wrecking him...

so i mean in the end of dbz it's safe to say the fused ssj3 was the most powerful being in the universe...being stronger than a being that took all the gods collectively to stop.....

the only way to say that thanos wins is to say the marvel universe as a whole is simply stronger then the dbz universe....

because thanos isn't the strongest character in all of marvel... but goku fused with vegeta is the absolute strongest in the dbz universe

Once again, Buu never destroyed a galaxy in the manga in one go, and there was no fusion SSJ3, it was fused SSJ. And yes Marvel range from invulnerable to invincible to reality warpers, to actual omnipotents. Of course they as a universe are stronger than DBZ. In fact, the only universe as strong is probably DC to my knowledge.

Also to be clear, Thor, Surfer, Hulk, Blackheart, Mephisto, Gladiator, etc. can also beat everyone in DBZ if you use their feats, speed, strength, etc. DBZ isn't that strong.

 

[Amotekun]

The only possible conclusion one can draw is that Marvel as a universe is stronger than DBZ universe.

 

[jaxn]

i guess so if we're arguing the LT vs Goku.

 

[Dupac]

the end argument is that the DBZ universe isn't really that strong in comparison to Marvel and DC....

so basically any top tier character in either would wreck the entire dbz universe....

shit pisses me the fuck off, cuz i to this day cannot picture kal-el fucking with goku...

but whatever....

 

[jaxn]

the end argument is that the DBZ universe isn't really that strong in comparison to Marvel and DC....

so basically any top tier character in either would wreck the entire dbz universe....

shit pisses me the fuck off, cuz i to this day cannot picture kal-el fucking with goku...

but whatever....

so top tiers in Marvel and DC are walking around with the power to casually destroy planets?

 

[DarkRaiden]

the end argument is that the DBZ universe isn't really that strong in comparison to Marvel and DC....

so basically any top tier character in either would wreck the entire dbz universe....

shit pisses me the fuck off, cuz i to this day cannot picture kal-el fucking with goku...

but whatever....

so top tiers in Marvel and DC are walking around with the power to casually destroy planets?

Define top tier. Do you mean abstracts? Cause that's more universe busting. If you mean Thor, Hulk, etc. then yes they walk around with planet busting abilities. Casually.

 

[jaxn]

the end argument is that the DBZ universe isn't really that strong in comparison to Marvel and DC....

so basically any top tier character in either would wreck the entire dbz universe....

shit pisses me the fuck off, cuz i to this day cannot picture kal-el fucking with goku...

but whatever....

so top tiers in Marvel and DC are walking around with the power to casually destroy planets?

Define top tier. Do you mean abstracts? Cause that's more universe busting. If you mean Thor, Hulk, etc. then yes they walk around with planet busting abilities. Casually.

top tier are characters like Thor and Superman. I didn't ask if they had planet busting abilities..are they walking around with the power level to casually destroy planets..key word casually..without exerting nowhere close to their top level of power.

 

[Amotekun]

The argument has shifted to DBZ being an overall weaker universe than Marvel or DC. With that being said let's say that planet busting is relative to the strength of the universe. Which means that an Earth in a DBZ universe is comparatively weaker than a Marvel or DC earth and requires substantially less power than say a Marvel or DC multiverse Earth.

If Goku were to come to the Marvel Universe he would find himself among a host of many energy manipulators and energy absorbers that not only drown out his power but can absorb whatever he throws at them.

Likewise if a Marvel or DC character went to a DBZ univserse they would have to seriously dampen their pwoers as the properties of that universe whatever they are made of are not as dense, or strong or withstanding as what they are used to.

If Goku gets thrown through the air I bet he is not crackin open mountains as easily as he is in his own universe.