Serious Question About The Four Elements, Longevity And Being a Pioneer In Hip Hop

[Kwan Dai]

The main issue here is, Black Music and culture is always shitted on by whites, then ignorant Blacks follow suit. Followed by whites stealing and fronting like they are creators and innovators.

Gene Simmons has no point, and is mildly talented himself. In fact Kiss is GARBAGE musically, and are\were nothing but a gimmick, campy ass hair band.

Hip Hop music since it's creation has involved live instruments and musicians. For ignorant Hip Hop bystanders do your homework. Yall disgust me really.

Teddy Riley produced for Kool Moe dee.

Larry Smith produced for Whodini and Run DMC

Stetsasonic "The original Hip Hop Band"

Nile Rodgers playing bass.

Sugar Hill records had an in house Band.

I could continue but why. Most of yall will continue believing what yall want anyways or arguing some bullshit non point.

 

[5 Grand]

Sampling music and chopping music is a skill imo. You have to have an ear for melody and composing music. I'm pretty sure most of the heavy samplers in rap (Dilla, Premo, Madlib,etc) could be thought how to play instruments and they would understand how to compose it.

James Brown, Isley Bros, etc have a shit ton of hits and decades of ''relevancy". You cannot compare our hip-hop forefathers to those dudes. Not to mention James Brown, Isleys,etc sound evolved over the years to where it didn't sound dated. I can't say thee same for most of our forefathers. Most of them dudes are still using that old ass 80s flow.

I'm not denying that sampling requires skill. Nor am I denying that you have to "have an ear for music".

What I'm saying is that if you take the traditional definition for the word/concept "music". Many Hip Hop acts, groups and songs don't fit the definition.

Now my point can easily be disproven by cherry picking certain songs that are musical. But let's not cherry pick, let's look at Hip Hop as a whole. For example, look at these albums;

1. Illmatic

2. It Takes A Nation of Millions To Hold Us Back

3. Me Against The World

4. Ready To Die

5. Paid In Full

6. Ghetto D

7. Blueprint

8. Trap Musik

9. Straight Outta Compton

10. GKMC

^^^ I think thats a pretty good representation of what Hip Hop is. Or stated another way, I think we can all agree that, collectively, those albums represent the spirit of Hip Hop.

The thing that stands out the most is that these albums aren't necessarily in key, meaning, the producers had no regard for traditional music theory (maybe thats what we like about it). Also, the lyrics of these albums aren't in harmony with the melody of the music (samples).

While I agree that Hip Hop is enjoyable to listen to, I'm not convinced that it fits the description of the word "music". That isn't necessarily a good or bad thing, it just is what it is.

 

[Kwan Dai]

Sampling music and chopping music is a skill imo. You have to have an ear for melody and composing music. I'm pretty sure most of the heavy samplers in rap (Dilla, Premo, Madlib,etc) could be thought how to play instruments and they would understand how to compose it.

James Brown, Isley Bros, etc have a shit ton of hits and decades of ''relevancy". You cannot compare our hip-hop forefathers to those dudes. Not to mention James Brown, Isleys,etc sound evolved over the years to where it didn't sound dated. I can't say thee same for most of our forefathers. Most of them dudes are still using that old ass 80s flow.

I'm not denying that sampling requires skill. Nor am I denying that you have to "have an ear for music".

What I'm saying is that if you take the traditional definition for the word/concept "music". Many Hip Hop acts, groups and songs don't fit the definition.

Now my point can easily be disproven by cherry picking certain songs that are musical. But let's not cherry pick, let's look at Hip Hop as a whole. For example, look at these albums;

1. Illmatic

2. It Takes A Nation of Millions To Hold Us Back

3. Me Against The World

4. Ready To Die

5. Paid In Full

6. Ghetto D

7. Blueprint

8. Trap Musik

9. Straight Outta Compton

10. GKMC

^^^ I think thats a pretty good representation of what Hip Hop is. Or stated another way, I think we can all agree that, collectively, those albums represent the spirit of Hip Hop.

The thing that stands out the most is that these albums aren't necessarily in key, meaning, the producers had no regard for traditional music theory (maybe thats what we like about it). Also, the lyrics of these albums aren't in harmony with the melody of the music (samples).

While I agree that Hip Hop is enjoyable to listen to, I'm not convinced that it fits the description of the word "music". That isn't necessarily a good or bad thing, it just is what it is.

You're trying to hard for no reason at all.

Hip Hop doesn't have a Musical Scale or specific time signature. Hip Hop employs Scales and time signatures from various genres. To imply or say that they aren't present or used by Hip Hop producers is flat out false.

Any Music regardless of it's genre has to be in time, and\or in Key. Also, a Producer in 1986 or 2016 has engineers who do a final mix. I don't see a record making it off the desk of Major Record label knowing damn well the music is out of time and\or key.

What I think is at work here is your limited knowledge of Hip Hop. For you to dismiss almost an entire decade of Music where clearly TRAINED MUSICIANS were creating Hip Hop Music is, tragic. I get it you are trying to make a point. I just encourage you not to spread basura in your attempts.