Rapper Ranking Project: Rapper #3 - Tupac

[5 Grand]

Ok, so here is Troublesome 96.


It was named as an example of his Storytelling. It's a great song, but it's not a good story track. There is a somewhat loose narrative in it, but it's not a clear story. Here are the lyrics.

Compare this song to Somebody's Got to Die. That's a story about revenge just as this seems to be. Biggie walked you through a clear narrative from the beginning (him being informed that a friend was killed) through the middle (him making preparations to get revenge) to the end (him finding and killing the person that committed the offense). It was told masterfully and everything was covered.

Now look at this "story." Whats the beginning, middle, and end? Do all the thoughts and elements of the story flow together clearly. Hell just look at the beginning. In the second stanza, he starts it off with "So revenge, I swore..." Revenge for what? Nothing in the first verse implies that anything in particular happened to him that needed avenging. Read the rest of the stanza. He just said he swore revenge, but the rest of the stanza has nothing to do with that. It's just him puffing himself up as a boss. Look at the fourth stanza. He talks about being shot and the enemy being terrified. So for the first time, he identfies the target, but the rest of that stanza is padding. It doesn't advance a narrative at all. You could probably tell this story in 8 lines because it's that simple. This doesn't even compare to most great stories in rap.

Troublesome,

Nineteen muthaf***in' 96'

West side, let it be known, n****

Boss of all bosses, Makaveli

Menacin' methods label me a lethal weapon

Making n****s die, witnessin' breathless imperfections

Can you picture my specific plan to be the man in this wicked land

Under handed hits are planned, scams are plotted over grams of rock

Undercover agents die by the random shots, we all die in the end

So revenge, I swore, I was all about my ends, f*** friends and foes

Me, a born leader, never leave the block without my, my heata

Got me a dog, named him Mobb B**** N**** Eata

What could they do to me that little brat? S*** them, n****s

That shot me and still terrified I'll get their a**, how can I show you

How I feel inside? We outlawz motherf***as, can't kill my pride

N****s, talk a lot of s*** but that's after I'm gone 'cause they fear me

In physical form, let it be known, I'm troublesome

All ya n****s die, put it down to the fullest

Spittin' rhymes and bullets, troublesome, I know what time it is

Call the punk police please, they can't stop us n****s run the streets

Troublesome, gutter ways my mentality is ghetto

We're guerrillas in this criminal war, we all rebels

Death before dishonor bet on bomb on them first n****s

We came for murder, pullin' up in a hearse

Westside was the war cry bustin' all freely screaming f***

All y'all n****s in Swahili, pistol packin' fresh out of jail

I ain't goin' back, release me to care of my heartless strap

Say my name three times like candy man, bet I roll on your a**

Like an avalanche, a soul survivor, learned to get high

And pull drive bys, murder my foes, can't control my nine

Hearin' thoughts of my enemies pleadin' please

Busta a** motherf***as tried to flee, picture me lettin'

This chump survive, redin' up on his a** when I'm doped

He die, 'cause I'm troublesome

All ya n****s, die young, strapped and I don't give a f***

I'm hopeless, I live a thug life loosin' my focus, baby

I'm troublesome, bad boy killa, there is no one realla

What you saw was the rough, rugged and raw, outlaw

Murder, murder my mind states s*** ain't change

Since my last rhyme, the crime rate ain't decline

N****s bustin' shots like they lost their mind

Like twenty-five to life never crossed their mind

Tell me young n**** never learned a thang

Dead at thirteen 'cause he yearned to bang

Sent a lot of flowers but how can I cry

Tried to warn the little n****, either stop or die

Mercy is for the weak when I speak, I scream

Afraid to sleep I'm havin' crazy dreams

Vivid pictures of my enemies and family times

God to forgive me 'cause it's wrong but I plan to die

You can take me to heaven and understand I was a G

Did the best I could, raised in insanity or send me to hell

'Cause I ain't beggin' for my life, ain't nothing worse

Than this cursed a** hopeless life, I'm troublesome

All ya n****s die in your wildest dreams

You couldn't picture a n**** like me, I'm troublesome

I agree with your story telling rating. Big, Nas, Raekwon, Ghostface and even Eminem have all done a much better job at telling detailed stories.

Raekwon's my dude but I wouldn't call him a GOAT storyteller. If you go back and listen to OB4CL he didn't finish any of his stories. He'll tell the beginning of a story and then change topics, and if you're lucky he'll go back to the story by the end of the song.

 

[The Lonious Monk]

@Sion Got an issue with objectivity. If Pac is not the best at storytelling, he can not be 5. That's what this series is about. He has no stories as detailed or clever as Rewind or I Gave You Power in his whole catalog. That's an automatic no 5. You can find other rappers who tell more detailed stories than Pac that aren't as clever as Rewind or I Gave You Power, so they would fall in the 4.0-4.5 range. 3.5 isn't an outlandish score by any means.

Him receiving a 5 doesn't make him the best it just means he's exhibited an excellent rating from his own capacity. By your logic, Scarface is the greatest storyteller period over NaS, Big Boi and a dozen others and therefore no one can be a 5 if they're not better than Scarface even if they are. Nor can they match him.

And yes Pac does have stories as deep you can't be this foolish - Against All Odds is based on actual events that's so deep it's intertwined forever with "who killed 2Pac" theories and more. That song helped carry an entire theory that Pac would rise from the dead to get revenge on his enemies. As did Hail Mary and countless others. Pac's songs were connected. 3.5 is outlandish AF imo because it's undermining the impact those songs had on real life circumstances and the legend of Tupac.

Shit like this is why I hate the Reason sometimes. On the IC though shall not go against the "Nation of NaSlam", Lupe Fiasco is second the greatest rapper of all time, we cannot say Drake has ANY hit songs, everyone fucks dimes and lives in Trump tower with an orange juice maker ice cooler installed on the TV, J.Cole has 8 classics and southern Hip-hop is to be denounced SMMFH. FOH fam, let's keep it honest and keep the bullshit out.... You can give Pac lower ratings in other places but storytelling isn't one of them. Being objective, how he can be a 4 lyrically but a 3 for storytelling is mad disrespeckful SMMFH. Brenda's Got A Baby almost got black listed from radio, Baby Don't Cry, Keep Ya Head Up, Troublesome 96, Teardrops and Closed Caskets, Shorty Wanna Be A Thug, My Block, Mama's Just A Little Girl, All Eyez On Me, Letter To My Unborn Child, Better Dayz, Life Goes On. Negro Tupac was writing stories about him still living having us thinking he was still alive for 7 straight years SMMFH.

Scarface's stories aren't as clever as Rewind or I Gave You Power. They're just very good. I wouldn't give him the 5 either. If you start handing out 5s with "his own capacity" attached to it, you could start making arguments for a lot of 5s.

And you talking about the wrong one when you mentioning objectivity because I actually agree with a lot of your rant paragraph. The IC act like because Drake had someone write some of his worst music that he never was a good writer at all. All of his best verses are his "[*] o'clock in [location]" series and those are definitely all penned by him. I agree J Cole isn't great, FHD was his best album but still not as good as any of Kendrick's. And the south doesn't get enough credit.

You can make a legitimate argument for Pac to be a 4 or a 4.5 storyteller but not a 5 because the cleverness of a story counts. I understand there's a lot of posters in the Reason that denounce cleverness or witty bars saying it doesn't matter. If your story is concise, detailed and clever all at once, you are the better storyteller. Subject matter of what you're actually saying is a different category.

Thank you. @Sion if you disagree with a 3, fine. Make a good argument. Pick a story or two, show use how they demonstrate the standards mentioned for good storytelling and then suggest a reasonable score. It's not that difficult. Stop acting like everyone else is being anti-Pac because we're not cosigning your belief that he deserves 5 in everything.

 

[The Lonious Monk]

Ok, so here is Troublesome 96.


It was named as an example of his Storytelling. It's a great song, but it's not a good story track. There is a somewhat loose narrative in it, but it's not a clear story. Here are the lyrics.

Compare this song to Somebody's Got to Die. That's a story about revenge just as this seems to be. Biggie walked you through a clear narrative from the beginning (him being informed that a friend was killed) through the middle (him making preparations to get revenge) to the end (him finding and killing the person that committed the offense). It was told masterfully and everything was covered.

Now look at this "story." Whats the beginning, middle, and end? Do all the thoughts and elements of the story flow together clearly. Hell just look at the beginning. In the second stanza, he starts it off with "So revenge, I swore..." Revenge for what? Nothing in the first verse implies that anything in particular happened to him that needed avenging. Read the rest of the stanza. He just said he swore revenge, but the rest of the stanza has nothing to do with that. It's just him puffing himself up as a boss. Look at the fourth stanza. He talks about being shot and the enemy being terrified. So for the first time, he identfies the target, but the rest of that stanza is padding. It doesn't advance a narrative at all. You could probably tell this story in 8 lines because it's that simple. This doesn't even compare to most great stories in rap.

Troublesome,

Nineteen muthaf***in' 96'

West side, let it be known, n****

Boss of all bosses, Makaveli

Menacin' methods label me a lethal weapon

Making n****s die, witnessin' breathless imperfections

Can you picture my specific plan to be the man in this wicked land

Under handed hits are planned, scams are plotted over grams of rock

Undercover agents die by the random shots, we all die in the end

So revenge, I swore, I was all about my ends, f*** friends and foes

Me, a born leader, never leave the block without my, my heata

Got me a dog, named him Mobb B**** N**** Eata

What could they do to me that little brat? S*** them, n****s

That shot me and still terrified I'll get their a**, how can I show you

How I feel inside? We outlawz motherf***as, can't kill my pride

N****s, talk a lot of s*** but that's after I'm gone 'cause they fear me

In physical form, let it be known, I'm troublesome

All ya n****s die, put it down to the fullest

Spittin' rhymes and bullets, troublesome, I know what time it is

Call the punk police please, they can't stop us n****s run the streets

Troublesome, gutter ways my mentality is ghetto

We're guerrillas in this criminal war, we all rebels

Death before dishonor bet on bomb on them first n****s

We came for murder, pullin' up in a hearse

Westside was the war cry bustin' all freely screaming f***

All y'all n****s in Swahili, pistol packin' fresh out of jail

I ain't goin' back, release me to care of my heartless strap

Say my name three times like candy man, bet I roll on your a**

Like an avalanche, a soul survivor, learned to get high

And pull drive bys, murder my foes, can't control my nine

Hearin' thoughts of my enemies pleadin' please

Busta a** motherf***as tried to flee, picture me lettin'

This chump survive, redin' up on his a** when I'm doped

He die, 'cause I'm troublesome

All ya n****s, die young, strapped and I don't give a f***

I'm hopeless, I live a thug life loosin' my focus, baby

I'm troublesome, bad boy killa, there is no one realla

What you saw was the rough, rugged and raw, outlaw

Murder, murder my mind states s*** ain't change

Since my last rhyme, the crime rate ain't decline

N****s bustin' shots like they lost their mind

Like twenty-five to life never crossed their mind

Tell me young n**** never learned a thang

Dead at thirteen 'cause he yearned to bang

Sent a lot of flowers but how can I cry

Tried to warn the little n****, either stop or die

Mercy is for the weak when I speak, I scream

Afraid to sleep I'm havin' crazy dreams

Vivid pictures of my enemies and family times

God to forgive me 'cause it's wrong but I plan to die

You can take me to heaven and understand I was a G

Did the best I could, raised in insanity or send me to hell

'Cause I ain't beggin' for my life, ain't nothing worse

Than this cursed a** hopeless life, I'm troublesome

All ya n****s die in your wildest dreams

You couldn't picture a n**** like me, I'm troublesome

I agree with your story telling rating. Big, Nas, Raekwon, Ghostface and even Eminem have all done a much better job at telling detailed stories.

Raekwon's my dude but I wouldn't call him a GOAT storyteller. If you go back and listen to OB4CL he didn't finish any of his stories. He'll tell the beginning of a story and then change topics, and if you're lucky he'll go back to the story by the end of the song.

I agree that Rae isn't a 5, but he does do a better job of delivering clear and detailed stories than Pac. That's not to say that all Rae's stories are better than all of Pac's, but I do think Rae's body of work blows Pac's away. I would say Pac's method of storytelling is more consistent than Rae's though.

 

[The Lonious Monk]

@Sion Got an issue with objectivity. If Pac is not the best at storytelling, he can not be 5. That's what this series is about. He has no stories as detailed or clever as Rewind or I Gave You Power in his whole catalog. That's an automatic no 5. You can find other rappers who tell more detailed stories than Pac that aren't as clever as Rewind or I Gave You Power, so they would fall in the 4.0-4.5 range. 3.5 isn't an outlandish score by any means.

Him receiving a 5 doesn't make him the best it just means he's exhibited an excellent rating from his own capacity. By your logic, Scarface is the greatest storyteller period over NaS, Big Boi and a dozen others and therefore no one can be a 5 if they're not better than Scarface even if they are. Nor can they match him.

And yes Pac does have stories as deep you can't be this foolish - Against All Odds is based on actual events that's so deep it's intertwined forever with "who killed 2Pac" theories and more. That song helped carry an entire theory that Pac would rise from the dead to get revenge on his enemies. As did Hail Mary and countless others. Pac's songs were connected. 3.5 is outlandish AF imo because it's undermining the impact those songs had on real life circumstances and the legend of Tupac.

Shit like this is why I hate the Reason sometimes. On the IC though shall not go against the "Nation of NaSlam", Lupe Fiasco is second the greatest rapper of all time, we cannot say Drake has ANY hit songs, everyone fucks dimes and lives in Trump tower with an orange juice maker ice cooler installed on the TV, J.Cole has 8 classics and southern Hip-hop is to be denounced SMMFH. FOH fam, let's keep it honest and keep the bullshit out.... You can give Pac lower ratings in other places but storytelling isn't one of them. Being objective, how he can be a 4 lyrically but a 3 for storytelling is mad disrespeckful SMMFH. Brenda's Got A Baby almost got black listed from radio, Baby Don't Cry, Keep Ya Head Up, Troublesome 96, Teardrops and Closed Caskets, Shorty Wanna Be A Thug, My Block, Mama's Just A Little Girl, All Eyez On Me, Letter To My Unborn Child, Better Dayz, Life Goes On. Negro Tupac was writing stories about him still living having us thinking he was still alive for 7 straight years SMMFH.

Scarface's stories aren't as clever as Rewind or I Gave You Power. They're just very good. I wouldn't give him the 5 either. If you start handing out 5s with "his own capacity" attached to it, you could start making arguments for a lot of 5s.

And you talking about the wrong one when you mentioning objectivity because I actually agree with a lot of your rant paragraph. The IC act like because Drake had someone write some of his worst music that he never was a good writer at all. All of his best verses are his "[*] o'clock in [location]" series and those are definitely all penned by him. I agree J Cole isn't great, FHD was his best album but still not as good as any of Kendrick's. And the south doesn't get enough credit.

You can make a legitimate argument for Pac to be a 4 or a 4.5 storyteller but not a 5 because the cleverness of a story counts. I understand there's a lot of posters in the Reason that denounce cleverness or witty bars saying it doesn't matter. If your story is concise, detailed and clever all at once, you are the better storyteller. Subject matter of what you're actually saying is a different category.

Thank you. @Sion if you disagree with a 3, fine. Make a good argument. Pick a story or two, show use how they demonstrate the standards mentioned for good storytelling and then suggest a reasonable score. It's not that difficult. Stop acting like everyone else is being anti-Pac because we're not cosigning your belief that he deserves 5 in everything.

I just did that SMMFH LOOLOLOLOL

This is based on your own personal view (or dislike) of Pac. That being said I see there's no respect or real acknowledgement in opinions voiced. I'm out.

Only in The Reason is Pac considered an "average rapper" SMMFH

lol WTF. Pac's score is higher than Jay-Z and just .5 below Biggie. We can do 100 more of these topics and he'll probably wind up in the top 5 at worst. How the hell does that make him an "average rapper." I have more Pac albums than Jay and Big albums combined, but somehow dislike him because I'm just not blindly giving him the best score.

This is why I can't just average scores and act like that's some kind of objective standard because there are people that will come in here and won't even try to be objective. @Sion is clearly biased and he's not even trying to hide it. He's actually getting mad at other people because they are calling him out on his bias. If we just average the scores given we'll just have a bunch of biased scores because even if some people come in and objectively score, the people who aren't even trying to be objective will skew the scores.

 

[mosincredible]

@Sion Got an issue with objectivity. If Pac is not the best at storytelling, he can not be 5. That's what this series is about. He has no stories as detailed or clever as Rewind or I Gave You Power in his whole catalog. That's an automatic no 5. You can find other rappers who tell more detailed stories than Pac that aren't as clever as Rewind or I Gave You Power, so they would fall in the 4.0-4.5 range. 3.5 isn't an outlandish score by any means.

Him receiving a 5 doesn't make him the best it just means he's exhibited an excellent rating from his own capacity. By your logic, Scarface is the greatest storyteller period over NaS, Big Boi and a dozen others and therefore no one can be a 5 if they're not better than Scarface even if they are. Nor can they match him.

And yes Pac does have stories as deep you can't be this foolish - Against All Odds is based on actual events that's so deep it's intertwined forever with "who killed 2Pac" theories and more. That song helped carry an entire theory that Pac would rise from the dead to get revenge on his enemies. As did Hail Mary and countless others. Pac's songs were connected. 3.5 is outlandish AF imo because it's undermining the impact those songs had on real life circumstances and the legend of Tupac.

Shit like this is why I hate the Reason sometimes. On the IC though shall not go against the "Nation of NaSlam", Lupe Fiasco is second the greatest rapper of all time, we cannot say Drake has ANY hit songs, everyone fucks dimes and lives in Trump tower with an orange juice maker ice cooler installed on the TV, J.Cole has 8 classics and southern Hip-hop is to be denounced SMMFH. FOH fam, let's keep it honest and keep the bullshit out.... You can give Pac lower ratings in other places but storytelling isn't one of them. Being objective, how he can be a 4 lyrically but a 3 for storytelling is mad disrespeckful SMMFH. Brenda's Got A Baby almost got black listed from radio, Baby Don't Cry, Keep Ya Head Up, Troublesome 96, Teardrops and Closed Caskets, Shorty Wanna Be A Thug, My Block, Mama's Just A Little Girl, All Eyez On Me, Letter To My Unborn Child, Better Dayz, Life Goes On. Negro Tupac was writing stories about him still living having us thinking he was still alive for 7 straight years SMMFH.

Scarface's stories aren't as clever as Rewind or I Gave You Power. They're just very good. I wouldn't give him the 5 either. If you start handing out 5s with "his own capacity" attached to it, you could start making arguments for a lot of 5s.

And you talking about the wrong one when you mentioning objectivity because I actually agree with a lot of your rant paragraph. The IC act like because Drake had someone write some of his worst music that he never was a good writer at all. All of his best verses are his "[*] o'clock in [location]" series and those are definitely all penned by him. I agree J Cole isn't great, FHD was his best album but still not as good as any of Kendrick's. And the south doesn't get enough credit.

You can make a legitimate argument for Pac to be a 4 or a 4.5 storyteller but not a 5 because the cleverness of a story counts. I understand there's a lot of posters in the Reason that denounce cleverness or witty bars saying it doesn't matter. If your story is concise, detailed and clever all at once, you are the better storyteller. Subject matter of what you're actually saying is a different category.

Thank you. @Sion if you disagree with a 3, fine. Make a good argument. Pick a story or two, show use how they demonstrate the standards mentioned for good storytelling and then suggest a reasonable score. It's not that difficult. Stop acting like everyone else is being anti-Pac because we're not cosigning your belief that he deserves 5 in everything.

I just did that SMMFH LOOLOLOLOL

This is based on your own personal view (or dislike) of Pac. That being said I see there's no respect or real acknowledgement in opinions voiced. I'm out.

Only in The Reason is Pac considered an "average rapper" SMMFH

He scored a Pac higher than Jay and only .5 less than BIG but he thinks he's average?

 

[The Lonious Monk]

So @Sion's stance is basically void, but I don't want to throw out the contention. Does Pac's Storytelling need to be raised, and if so, to what? I'd still say he's a 3. He has some well told stories, but none of them are particularly creative or detailed. However, if you guys think he has a strong body of work as far as storytelling goes, maybe it can be raised .5 or something like that. What do you think?

 

[5 Grand]

I don't think storytelling was Pac's strong suit. Nor do I think Lyrics is his strong suit.

Pac excelled at delivery. Thats where he gets a 5

 

[The Lonious Monk]

I don't think storytelling was Pac's strong suit. Nor do I think Lyrics is his strong suit.

Pac excelled at delivery. Thats where he gets a 5

I think Pac has very strong lyrics. Does anyone else think I rated him too high there? Ironically, the Pac dickriders keep attacking my Lyrics score because the Storytelling score isn't as high as they want. Seems like they are roundabout calling his Lyrics into question too.

 

[spit_fiya]

All 5s

 

[genocidecutter]

Scarface>Tupac and Biggie

 

[Ibex]

Lyrics - 5

Delivery - 5

Language - 3

Storytelling - 4

Catalog - 5

Subject Matter - 5

Creativity - 3

Collaboration - 5

Impact - 5

Total - 40

 

[AZTG]

Scarface>Tupac and Biggie

Ok.

But whats that gotta do with this thread?

 

[GetoBoy]

Great thread series, terrible execution. It really should be take everyones score and average it out. Minus the all 5 crowd and shit.

Thank you...... He don't seem to understand that

 

[AZTG]

We voting you out your own thread.

Let @sion or someone make these threads from now. Take everyones total scores and get an average, and lets sticky the final results of everyone.

 

[GetoBoy]

We voting you out your own thread.

Let @sion or someone make these threads from now. Take everyones total scores and get an average, and lets sticky the final results of everyone.

I been tryna tell him having one person decide what scores he wants to change and how much he wants to change them ain't the best way but he thinks since he takes ppl opinion into consideration that means it's coo no it's still just your opinion Jay BIG and now Pac scores all boil down to one person decision and instead of the whole thread being about everybody giving their own scores and coming up with the best rating taking all scores into account it turns into everybody tryna convince one person to change a score....it's sum dictator shit but he don't seem to understand

 

[metal face terrorist]

Lyrics - 3.5

Delivery - 5

Language - 3

Storytelling - 3

Catalog - 5

Subject Matter - 5

Creativity - 3

Collaboration - 3

Impact - 5

 

[The Lonious Monk]

We voting you out your own thread.

Let @sion or someone make these threads from now. Take everyones total scores and get an average, and lets sticky the final results of everyone.

I mean if ya'll want to have the thread. Take it. It doesn't really make that much of a difference to me. Ya'll telling @Sion to take over and he's the one that ignoring the rules of the categories, ignoring the scoring conditions, and throwing a hissy fit because I AND OTHERS didn't agree with his story assessment. Ya'll niggas can't follow rules and don't want to be subjective, but you want to fault me because I'm trying to be a moderator.

Pooling scores in the way ya'll suggest is stupid because people will just come in here and post a bunch of scores based on no logic and pure fanboyism. That's happened in every topic so far. You're not going to get real scores. You're going to have a glorified popularity contest, and if that's all you want, have at it. @GetoBoy keeps on telling me that the way I'm doing this is wrong, but guess what, this is how review panels everywhere work. You have a moderator who keeps people on track, keeps a log of everyone's commentary, and makes decisions when the group doesn't come to a consensus. That's all I've done. My opinion hasn't held anymore weight than anyone else's. Again, if it did, none of the scores would have changed past my initial baseline, but that's not what happened. No review panel lets everyone control scores like he suggests and very few just average out everyone's scores because averages don't tell much for something like this.

Anyway, if people like the idea, but don't like how I'm doing it. Ya'll can have it. Pick someone else to run it and have at it. I was going to do Nas, Eminem, Andre 3K, Ice Cube, Ghostface, and then open it up to ideas. Ya'll can go with that or choose your own. It's all good.

 

[The Lonious Monk]

Nah they're right man, when I do it I'm gonna let the people decide. That way it's more well rounded and you get a collective opinion from everyone. It doesn't matter if we have diehard fans vote for say a Jay-Z or a NaS because you'll have people who hate them but will still vote too. So in the end it evens out.

It won't even out. It will be biased towards whichever side responds more. If we have more rabid Pac fans on here than level headed people, the scores will be skewed. There will be no logic behind scores. People will just post how they feel based on their like or dislike of the rapper. Don't get me wrong. Nothing is wrong with how you want to do it. Like I said, it's fine, but it's just a glorified popularity contest. The reason I set it up the way I did is that in the end, every score would be based on some objective logic and not just about what people like. Basically, it comes down to objectivity vs equal representation. It seems that you guys believe it's more important to have everyone equally represented even if it means that the scores won't necessarily be based on objective reasoning. My point was to have every score have an objective basis even if it meant dismissing some people who couldn't support their scores or clearly weren't being subjective. It's just a difference of opinion in how things should be done. If ya'll prefer it the other way, it's cool. I'll defer and let ya'll have it.

 

[GetoBoy]

Nah they're right man, when I do it I'm gonna let the people decide. That way it's more well rounded and you get a collective opinion from everyone. It doesn't matter if we have diehard fans vote for say a Jay-Z or a NaS because you'll have people who hate them but will still vote too. So in the end it evens out.

It won't even out. It will be biased towards whichever side responds more. If we have more rabid Pac fans on here than level headed people, the scores will be skewed. There will be no logic behind scores. People will just post how they feel based on their like or dislike of the rapper. Don't get me wrong. Nothing is wrong with how you want to do it. Like I said, it's fine, but it's just a glorified popularity contest. The reason I set it up the way I did is that in the end, every score would be based on some objective logic and not just about what people like. Basically, it comes down to objectivity vs equal representation. It seems that you guys believe it's more important to have everyone equally represented even if it means that the scores won't necessarily be based on objective reasoning. My point was to have every score have an objective basis even if it meant dismissing some people who couldn't support their scores or clearly weren't being subjective. It's just a difference of opinion in how things should be done. If ya'll prefer it the other way, it's cool. I'll defer and let ya'll have it.

But see that's what makes this a dicatorship becuz YOU get to dictate what's objective and what's not based on how YOU feel.... If somebody wants to give Pac a 5 in a category and you feel it's not objective you'll just dismiss it tho fan or not it could be..... If you wanna do it like this you should have just said "imma make a thread series on how I FEEL rappers should be rated and want y'all opinions" but as it is now it really is you just picking and choosing and everybody just tryna convince you of ratings instead of it being a group conversation among everybody and we all coming up with the best ratings

 

[GetoBoy]

Again the idea is dope it's just the execution that's holding the idea back