Rapper Ranking Project: Rapper #1 - Jay-Z

[The Lonious Monk]

Sorry for the triple post, but I still want to make it clear how the scoring goes. I'm going to post songs/verses that I think are the pinnacle for each relevant area. Now that doesn't mean artist I use is a 5 in this area. Only that the particular song/verse is top tier. An artist that is defined by these types of songs in a particular area would be a 5. An artist that has show the capability of songs like these, but such songs are not the standard for that artist gets a 4. Artists that are good in a particular area, but typically don't reach the level shown in these songs get a 3.

Lyrics

Cee Lo's Verse in Refuse Limitations (Skip to 4:10)


Lyrics that are clear, well written, and have a strong message that is easily understood.

Delivery

Eminem - Rap God


He pretty much displays everything you could want in a delivery. He rides the beat, he shakes up his flow to keep it interesting, he changes his flow, he seamlessly accommodates a beat change, and all of that without losing a step.

Language

Chino XL - Wordsmith


Look at the wordplay in this song. It's ridiculous. I won't post a video, but for another example of good use of language check the extended baseball metaphor from Gza in Clan in Da Front.

Storytelling

Biggie - I Got a Story to Tell


A unique story told masterfully.

Creativity

Tupac - Me and My Girlfriend


He perfectly paralleled an ode to his gun with a girlfriend/boyfriend relationship. Ironically, Jay-Z and Beyonce remade the song without everything that made it creative.

Collaboration

Mobb Deep f/ Nas and Raekwon - Eye for an Eye


A song, with four of the dopest MCs out at the time. We can quibble about the whose verse was the best, but the point is, they all came correct.

 

[Revolver Ocelot]

What is so great about Jay's delivery. He doesn't switch up his flow much and definitely not within songs. He's not the best at riding a beat. His delivery is decent. It gets the job done, but that's about it. He's nowhere near the best in that area.

Would take you serious on this if you didn't name Canibus as someone who has a better delivery than Jay.

 

[Revolver Ocelot]

What is so great about Jay's delivery. He doesn't switch up his flow much and definitely not within songs. He's not the best at riding a beat.

Strongly disagree with this. Jays flow is one of his biggest strengths on the mic imo. He doesnt switch up his flow? My man he got a new flow on every song and he got tons of classics where he uses mutliple flows within the song, shit sometimes within a verse. Just think back to Nigga What Nigga Who, I Just Wanna Love You, Pump It Up Remix etc theres so many more examples

This kinda goes with my previous post where I explained the scoring. I gave Jay a 3.5. That doesn't mean his flow is bad. In fact, the .5 means its trending towards Exceptional. There is no question Jay has good delivery, but again, most good rappers have good delivery.

Here's nigga Nigga What Nigga Who. That's an example you gave.


His flow is dope. He rides the beat well. He also rides it straight the whole song. He's not changing up his flow. His flow wasn't even as dynamic as Jaz's. Look how Jaz seamlessly went from riding the beat straight like Jay and then into a kinda machine gun flow and then back and into a kinda stoccato delivery a little later. He did that across one verse. Jay had 2 verses and didn't alter his delivery that much. But neither of them are switching in they way I'm talking about on that song. Jaz was really just adjusting his flow to accommodate his lyrics. That's pretty standard for a good delivery and even in your example for where Jay is supposedly exceptional, someone else gives a better example of having a dynamic flow.

However, for a true flow swithc, listen to Twista's verse on this song (go to 2:24)


The nigga changed to a completely different flow in the middle of his verse. Same beat but his delivery completely changed and he didn't lose a step. You have rappers out there that do thinks like that regularly and multiple times in single songs. Jay doesn't do that. He usually picks the best delivery for him and sticks with it without alteration through an entire song. Again, his flow is dope and that's why I gave him the .5 because he does stand out even among good rappers, but he's not a rapper that just delivers in a way that elevates him.

Twista didn't change his flow on that song, he just changed the tone in his voice, he was still using that double time flow thru out.

 

[GetoBoy]

Aight man well that's your opinion and those are your ratings just becuz somebody thinks higher than you doesn't make them overrating him no more than it makes you underrating him becuz if you asking this looking for only ppl to agree with you then you might as well just gave your opinion and asked what do ppl think of your opinion

It's not about that. If I wanted to underrate Jay, I would have given his ass a 3 in every thing, but I didn't. I looked at what he's done and tried to be objective. Now I admit in the opening post that I'm not necessarily right on everything and people can feel free to argue a point. But recognize that this an objective attempt to rate him, so you niggas that are super fans and know you can't be objective have to realize that you can't just come in here and expect me to give him all 5s because you love him. You got give a good reason for me to adjust the score and "It's Jay, he's the best." Isn't a good reason.

I also don't think you guys understand how the scoring works so let me explain that a little better.

5 - Elite, this means that rapper is the best or one of the very best in a particular area.

4 - Exceptional, this means that the rapper isn't necessarily the best, but still stands above even most good rappers.

3 - Capable, this means the rapper has demonstrated some ability in an area, but not much more than many other good rappers.

2 - Unexceptional, this means the rapper doesn't do any more in a particular area than the vast majority of other rappers.

1 - Wack, this means the rapper isn't very good in a particular area or has not shown much capability in an area.

0 - I said 1-5 because realistically every rapper should have some capability, however in the rare case where you can make an argument that a person just completely fails, you can give a 0.

Now, let's look at one of the areas where we disagree, Storytelling. You give him a full point higher than I did. Your argument is basically, "He's told some good stories." He has. We don't disagree there, but does his storytelling ability and use of stories set him apart from other good rappers? Not really. Jay can create a strong narrative and deliver it as a song. That's good. But it's something he does all that often relative to the number of songs he has. The types of stories he tells aren't all that varied. They pretty much stick to a script with some exceptions. He's a good storyteller, but when you look at the pack of good rappers, most of them are good story tellers. So what does Jay do that raises him above that pack? Pastor Troy is a good storyteller. I can post some good stories from him like you could for Jay. However, he's still just a 3, because when you look at the good rappers over the course of Hip Hop history, they all have told some good stories from time to time.

You still don't see what you doing you asking for opinions while tryna say your opinion is the right one well wtf you asking for opinions for??? If I was on sum super fan shit like you said you'd just give him a 3 in every category I'd just give him a 5 in every category... notice how you spending the whole thread tryna push YOUR rating as opposed to just realizing your rating aren't facts and it isn't becuz anybody is a stan or overrating it's becuz music is subjective..... I think alot of your ratings are underrated and you think mine are overrated you don't think Jay has a great flow others do you don't think Jay is an elite collaborater (I really don't get that one) I do you don't think Jay is an exceptional story teller others might when you get to BIG you gonna have sum niggaz that give him a 5 on everything it is what it is your ratings aren't fact they your opinion

 

[GetoBoy]

Nigga talking about expecting you to give him all 5's how the hell I'ma expect you to give him all 5's when I ain't even give him all 5's smh

 

[The Lonious Monk]

What is so great about Jay's delivery. He doesn't switch up his flow much and definitely not within songs. He's not the best at riding a beat. His delivery is decent. It gets the job done, but that's about it. He's nowhere near the best in that area.

Would take you serious on this if you didn't name Canibus as someone who has a better delivery than Jay.

Aight, I'll give you that. I think there are things Canibus does better than Jay, but it's a stretch to say his delivery as a whole is better.

Twista didn't change his flow on that song, he just changed the tone in his voice, he was still using that double time flow thru out.

Everybody who does the double time flow doesn't sound the same. Everyone puts their own stamp on it. Go back and listen. He spit about 38-40 syllables in each line in the first flow. In the second, he spit around 30-40 per line. That's because in the first he was sticking with a consistent cadence, rhythm, and word pattern throughout. In the second, he altering all of those things throughout the verse. It wasn't just a difference in tone. Though being able to modulate tone is another part of delivery and another area where you can clearly see that others do it much better than Jay.

 

[Lefty_]

I don't know if it has been said, but there should be a thread that holds current all-time rankings.

 

[Lefty_]

This is very dope, can't wait for Scarface. He should have pretty high marks in every category.

 

[The Lonious Monk]

You still don't see what you doing you asking for opinions while tryna say your opinion is the right one well wtf you asking for opinions for??? If I was on sum super fan shit like you said you'd just give him a 3 in every category I'd just give him a 5 in every category... notice how you spending the whole thread tryna push YOUR rating as opposed to just realizing your rating aren't facts and it isn't becuz anybody is a stan or overrating it's becuz music is subjective..... I think alot of your ratings are underrated and you think mine are overrated you don't think Jay has a great flow others do you don't think Jay is an elite collaborater (I really don't get that one) I do you don't think Jay is an exceptional story teller others might when you get to BIG you gonna have sum niggaz that give him a 5 on everything it is what it is your ratings aren't fact they your opinion

Nigga, nobody is in here acting like these are facts. I said in the opening piece that this is all going to be based on opinion. I provided the based scores so of course I believe they are right, but again I can be objective, if you provide a good argument and people agree with you, fine we can change it. But your arguments aren't good and no one is agreeing with you. And yes, you are a Jay-Z stan. I don't know why ya'll have such a hard time embracing that.

And my scores aren't just based on my opinions without any real reasoning. I gave you the reasoning why Jay deserves a 3 and not a 4. And that reasoning is based on facts. He doesn't do as much story telling as some of the higher tiered story tellers. His stories aren't as varied in topics as others. His stories in general aren't as creative. He's not spitting something like Nas' Rewind or Ghostface's The Watch. So if you go down everything that makes a good storyteller and see that Jay is pretty good in every area but not bringing as much as some of the elite storytellers in any area, how do you justify putting him on an Exceptional level? The purpose of this topic is for discussion. If you don't agree provide a suitable argument. Don't just get on here and say some bullshit like "Well, that's your opinion and my opinion is my opinion and our opinions are different and opinions are opinions and not facts." That's not supporting your case at all. It's just fluff. We don't have to agree on the ratings. We just have to present our cases for the ratings, and whoever has the stronger case is the one whose score will stick.

 

[GetoBoy]

You still don't see what you doing you asking for opinions while tryna say your opinion is the right one well wtf you asking for opinions for??? If I was on sum super fan shit like you said you'd just give him a 3 in every category I'd just give him a 5 in every category... notice how you spending the whole thread tryna push YOUR rating as opposed to just realizing your rating aren't facts and it isn't becuz anybody is a stan or overrating it's becuz music is subjective..... I think alot of your ratings are underrated and you think mine are overrated you don't think Jay has a great flow others do you don't think Jay is an elite collaborater (I really don't get that one) I do you don't think Jay is an exceptional story teller others might when you get to BIG you gonna have sum niggaz that give him a 5 on everything it is what it is your ratings aren't fact they your opinion

Nigga, nobody is in here acting like these are facts. I said in the opening piece that this is all going to be based on opinion. I provided the based scores so of course I believe they are right, but again I can be objective, if you provide a good argument and people agree with you, fine we can change it. But your arguments aren't good and no one is agreeing with you. And yes, you are a Jay-Z stan. I don't know why ya'll have such a hard time embracing that.

And my scores aren't just based on my opinions without any real reasoning. I gave you the reasoning why Jay deserves a 3 and not a 4. And that reasoning is based on facts. He doesn't do as much story telling as some of the higher tiered story tellers. His stories aren't as varied in topics as others. His stories in general aren't as creative. He's not spitting something like Nas' Rewind or Ghostface's The Watch. So if you go down everything that makes a good storyteller and see that Jay is pretty good in every area but not bringing as much as some of the elite storytellers in any area, how do you justify putting him on an Exceptional level? The purpose of this topic is for discussion. If you don't agree provide a suitable argument. Don't just get on here and say some bullshit like "Well, that's your opinion and my opinion is my opinion and our opinions are different and opinions are opinions and not facts." That's not supporting your case at all. It's just fluff. We don't have to agree on the ratings. We just have to present our cases for the ratings, and whoever has the stronger case is the one whose score will stick.

Nigga so far we got a

34.5

38

40

40.5

And others asking you how you rating him so low on certain areas

How you gonna say nobody agreeing with me if anything YOU the one ppl not agreeing with but aight man it's your thread.... And I gave my reasoning just becuz you don't agree don't mean the reasoning isn't there I'm not finna keep going back and forth defending my reasons becuz either way if somebody rates something high that you don't agree and they give a reason you don't agree as normal in the IC the first things niggaz go to is "you just being a stan" no how about you just underrating evidence by nobody score even being close to as low as yours but let me guess the others are stans too right.... Knock it off

 

[The Lonious Monk]

You still don't see what you doing you asking for opinions while tryna say your opinion is the right one well wtf you asking for opinions for??? If I was on sum super fan shit like you said you'd just give him a 3 in every category I'd just give him a 5 in every category... notice how you spending the whole thread tryna push YOUR rating as opposed to just realizing your rating aren't facts and it isn't becuz anybody is a stan or overrating it's becuz music is subjective..... I think alot of your ratings are underrated and you think mine are overrated you don't think Jay has a great flow others do you don't think Jay is an elite collaborater (I really don't get that one) I do you don't think Jay is an exceptional story teller others might when you get to BIG you gonna have sum niggaz that give him a 5 on everything it is what it is your ratings aren't fact they your opinion

Nigga, nobody is in here acting like these are facts. I said in the opening piece that this is all going to be based on opinion. I provided the based scores so of course I believe they are right, but again I can be objective, if you provide a good argument and people agree with you, fine we can change it. But your arguments aren't good and no one is agreeing with you. And yes, you are a Jay-Z stan. I don't know why ya'll have such a hard time embracing that.

And my scores aren't just based on my opinions without any real reasoning. I gave you the reasoning why Jay deserves a 3 and not a 4. And that reasoning is based on facts. He doesn't do as much story telling as some of the higher tiered story tellers. His stories aren't as varied in topics as others. His stories in general aren't as creative. He's not spitting something like Nas' Rewind or Ghostface's The Watch. So if you go down everything that makes a good storyteller and see that Jay is pretty good in every area but not bringing as much as some of the elite storytellers in any area, how do you justify putting him on an Exceptional level? The purpose of this topic is for discussion. If you don't agree provide a suitable argument. Don't just get on here and say some bullshit like "Well, that's your opinion and my opinion is my opinion and our opinions are different and opinions are opinions and not facts." That's not supporting your case at all. It's just fluff. We don't have to agree on the ratings. We just have to present our cases for the ratings, and whoever has the stronger case is the one whose score will stick.

Nigga so far we got a

34.5

38

40

40.5

And others asking you how you rating him so low on certain areas

How you gonna say nobody agreeing with me if anything YOU the one ppl not agreeing with but aight man it's your thread.... And I gave my reasoning just becuz you don't agree don't mean the reasoning isn't there I'm not finna keep going back and forth defending my reasons becuz either way if somebody rates something high that you don't agree and they give a reason you don't agree as normal in the IC the first things niggaz go to is "you just being a stan" no how about you just underrating evidence by nobody score even being close to as low as yours but let me guess the others are stans too right.... Knock it off

Nigga you didn't give any reasoning. You just said you think Jay is a good storyteller and that that's your opinion. That's not an argument. And yes, people put higher scores than me, but none of you are giving reasons past your own opinion. It's fine for you to disagree with me, but if you want the main score adjusted provide an actual argument.

You think Jay's stories deserve to be a 4. Post some, explain why they are better than the stories from rappers that aren't 4s. Do anything but get on here and whine because I'm not agreeing with you. I outlined the format of this topic in the OP. If you just wanted to come in here and tell us you think Jay is the best, you could have saved that shit for the other Jay topics. There are actual rules and expectations in this thread and you want to ignore them and act like I'm in the wrong for not just accepting your bullshit.

Again, my scores are not final. If people have actual arguments, make them. A couple have made some arguments for his delivery. I made my counter. It seems like quite a few believe that I underrated his delivery, so I'm thinking about bumping it up to a 4. But you've made shitty arguments for both storytelling and collaboration, nobody is jumping to take your side on those, so why are acting like I'm being so unfair?

 

[Revolver Ocelot]

What is so great about Jay's delivery. He doesn't switch up his flow much and definitely not within songs. He's not the best at riding a beat. His delivery is decent. It gets the job done, but that's about it. He's nowhere near the best in that area.

Would take you serious on this if you didn't name Canibus as someone who has a better delivery than Jay.

Aight, I'll give you that. I think there are things Canibus does better than Jay, but it's a stretch to say his delivery as a whole is better.

Twista didn't change his flow on that song, he just changed the tone in his voice, he was still using that double time flow thru out.

Everybody who does the double time flow doesn't sound the same. Everyone puts their own stamp on it. Go back and listen. He spit about 38-40 syllables in each line in the first flow. In the second, he spit around 30-40 per line. That's because in the first he was sticking with a consistent cadence, rhythm, and word pattern throughout. In the second, he altering all of those things throughout the verse. It wasn't just a difference in tone. Though being able to modulate tone is another part of delivery and another area where you can clearly see that others do it much better than Jay.

So, no difference like I said.

He still spiting 30-40 syllables a line, he just changes his tone.

 

[The Lonious Monk]

What is so great about Jay's delivery. He doesn't switch up his flow much and definitely not within songs. He's not the best at riding a beat. His delivery is decent. It gets the job done, but that's about it. He's nowhere near the best in that area.

Would take you serious on this if you didn't name Canibus as someone who has a better delivery than Jay.

Aight, I'll give you that. I think there are things Canibus does better than Jay, but it's a stretch to say his delivery as a whole is better.

Twista didn't change his flow on that song, he just changed the tone in his voice, he was still using that double time flow thru out.

Everybody who does the double time flow doesn't sound the same. Everyone puts their own stamp on it. Go back and listen. He spit about 38-40 syllables in each line in the first flow. In the second, he spit around 30-40 per line. That's because in the first he was sticking with a consistent cadence, rhythm, and word pattern throughout. In the second, he altering all of those things throughout the verse. It wasn't just a difference in tone. Though being able to modulate tone is another part of delivery and another area where you can clearly see that others do it much better than Jay.

So, no difference like I said.

He still spiting 30-40 syllables a line, he just changes his tone.

Did you not read clearly or something? 30-40 is not the same as 38-40. In the later case he was more consistently spitting that double time flow. In the second case he was bouncing back and forth between a few tempos. I don't see how you can even argue this. His last few lines weren't even double time. He just restored them straight.

Ultimately, he switched his delivery mid verse. Jay doesn't do things like that.

Enough people have protested. I'll bump his Delivery score up to 4. I'll also bump his Collaboration score up to 4.5. Upon reflection @GetoBoy is right. Jay has collabed with many of the best rappers across era and region. I won't give him a full point more because he doesn't dominate the comp more often than not, but he always has a good showing.

 

[GetoBoy]

You still don't see what you doing you asking for opinions while tryna say your opinion is the right one well wtf you asking for opinions for??? If I was on sum super fan shit like you said you'd just give him a 3 in every category I'd just give him a 5 in every category... notice how you spending the whole thread tryna push YOUR rating as opposed to just realizing your rating aren't facts and it isn't becuz anybody is a stan or overrating it's becuz music is subjective..... I think alot of your ratings are underrated and you think mine are overrated you don't think Jay has a great flow others do you don't think Jay is an elite collaborater (I really don't get that one) I do you don't think Jay is an exceptional story teller others might when you get to BIG you gonna have sum niggaz that give him a 5 on everything it is what it is your ratings aren't fact they your opinion

Nigga, nobody is in here acting like these are facts. I said in the opening piece that this is all going to be based on opinion. I provided the based scores so of course I believe they are right, but again I can be objective, if you provide a good argument and people agree with you, fine we can change it. But your arguments aren't good and no one is agreeing with you. And yes, you are a Jay-Z stan. I don't know why ya'll have such a hard time embracing that.

And my scores aren't just based on my opinions without any real reasoning. I gave you the reasoning why Jay deserves a 3 and not a 4. And that reasoning is based on facts. He doesn't do as much story telling as some of the higher tiered story tellers. His stories aren't as varied in topics as others. His stories in general aren't as creative. He's not spitting something like Nas' Rewind or Ghostface's The Watch. So if you go down everything that makes a good storyteller and see that Jay is pretty good in every area but not bringing as much as some of the elite storytellers in any area, how do you justify putting him on an Exceptional level? The purpose of this topic is for discussion. If you don't agree provide a suitable argument. Don't just get on here and say some bullshit like "Well, that's your opinion and my opinion is my opinion and our opinions are different and opinions are opinions and not facts." That's not supporting your case at all. It's just fluff. We don't have to agree on the ratings. We just have to present our cases for the ratings, and whoever has the stronger case is the one whose score will stick.

Nigga so far we got a

34.5

38

40

40.5

And others asking you how you rating him so low on certain areas

How you gonna say nobody agreeing with me if anything YOU the one ppl not agreeing with but aight man it's your thread.... And I gave my reasoning just becuz you don't agree don't mean the reasoning isn't there I'm not finna keep going back and forth defending my reasons becuz either way if somebody rates something high that you don't agree and they give a reason you don't agree as normal in the IC the first things niggaz go to is "you just being a stan" no how about you just underrating evidence by nobody score even being close to as low as yours but let me guess the others are stans too right.... Knock it off

Nigga you didn't give any reasoning. You just said you think Jay is a good storyteller and that that's your opinion. That's not an argument. And yes, people put higher scores than me, but none of you are giving reasons past your own opinion. It's fine for you to disagree with me, but if you want the main score adjusted provide an actual argument.

You think Jay's stories deserve to be a 4. Post some, explain why they are better than the stories from rappers that aren't 4s. Do anything but get on here and whine because I'm not agreeing with you. I outlined the format of this topic in the OP. If you just wanted to come in here and tell us you think Jay is the best, you could have saved that shit for the other Jay topics. There are actual rules and expectations in this thread and you want to ignore them and act like I'm in the wrong for not just accepting your bullshit.

Again, my scores are not final. If people have actual arguments, make them. A couple have made some arguments for his delivery. I made my counter. It seems like quite a few believe that I underrated his delivery, so I'm thinking about bumping it up to a 4. But you've made shitty arguments for both storytelling and collaboration, nobody is jumping to take your side on those, so why are acting like I'm being so unfair?

Nigga YOU the only one whining throughout this whole thread with anybody that don't agree with lol..... And how you gonna say I gave shitty examples for my collaborations score then adjust your score and reference me and my reasoning as to why??? That just shows I'm giving you good reasons you just not catching em on time you've underrated him more than I've overrated him so no this ain't no stan shit it's just facts get out your feelings bruh

 

[The Lonious Monk]

You still don't see what you doing you asking for opinions while tryna say your opinion is the right one well wtf you asking for opinions for??? If I was on sum super fan shit like you said you'd just give him a 3 in every category I'd just give him a 5 in every category... notice how you spending the whole thread tryna push YOUR rating as opposed to just realizing your rating aren't facts and it isn't becuz anybody is a stan or overrating it's becuz music is subjective..... I think alot of your ratings are underrated and you think mine are overrated you don't think Jay has a great flow others do you don't think Jay is an elite collaborater (I really don't get that one) I do you don't think Jay is an exceptional story teller others might when you get to BIG you gonna have sum niggaz that give him a 5 on everything it is what it is your ratings aren't fact they your opinion

Nigga, nobody is in here acting like these are facts. I said in the opening piece that this is all going to be based on opinion. I provided the based scores so of course I believe they are right, but again I can be objective, if you provide a good argument and people agree with you, fine we can change it. But your arguments aren't good and no one is agreeing with you. And yes, you are a Jay-Z stan. I don't know why ya'll have such a hard time embracing that.

And my scores aren't just based on my opinions without any real reasoning. I gave you the reasoning why Jay deserves a 3 and not a 4. And that reasoning is based on facts. He doesn't do as much story telling as some of the higher tiered story tellers. His stories aren't as varied in topics as others. His stories in general aren't as creative. He's not spitting something like Nas' Rewind or Ghostface's The Watch. So if you go down everything that makes a good storyteller and see that Jay is pretty good in every area but not bringing as much as some of the elite storytellers in any area, how do you justify putting him on an Exceptional level? The purpose of this topic is for discussion. If you don't agree provide a suitable argument. Don't just get on here and say some bullshit like "Well, that's your opinion and my opinion is my opinion and our opinions are different and opinions are opinions and not facts." That's not supporting your case at all. It's just fluff. We don't have to agree on the ratings. We just have to present our cases for the ratings, and whoever has the stronger case is the one whose score will stick.

Nigga so far we got a

34.5

38

40

40.5

And others asking you how you rating him so low on certain areas

How you gonna say nobody agreeing with me if anything YOU the one ppl not agreeing with but aight man it's your thread.... And I gave my reasoning just becuz you don't agree don't mean the reasoning isn't there I'm not finna keep going back and forth defending my reasons becuz either way if somebody rates something high that you don't agree and they give a reason you don't agree as normal in the IC the first things niggaz go to is "you just being a stan" no how about you just underrating evidence by nobody score even being close to as low as yours but let me guess the others are stans too right.... Knock it off

Nigga you didn't give any reasoning. You just said you think Jay is a good storyteller and that that's your opinion. That's not an argument. And yes, people put higher scores than me, but none of you are giving reasons past your own opinion. It's fine for you to disagree with me, but if you want the main score adjusted provide an actual argument.

You think Jay's stories deserve to be a 4. Post some, explain why they are better than the stories from rappers that aren't 4s. Do anything but get on here and whine because I'm not agreeing with you. I outlined the format of this topic in the OP. If you just wanted to come in here and tell us you think Jay is the best, you could have saved that shit for the other Jay topics. There are actual rules and expectations in this thread and you want to ignore them and act like I'm in the wrong for not just accepting your bullshit.

Again, my scores are not final. If people have actual arguments, make them. A couple have made some arguments for his delivery. I made my counter. It seems like quite a few believe that I underrated his delivery, so I'm thinking about bumping it up to a 4. But you've made shitty arguments for both storytelling and collaboration, nobody is jumping to take your side on those, so why are acting like I'm being so unfair?

Nigga YOU the only one whining throughout this whole thread and m about anybody that don't agree with lol..... And how you gonna say I gave shitty examples for my collaborations score then adjust your score and reference me and my reasoning as to why??? That just shows I'm giving you good reasons you just not catching em on time you've underrated him more than I've overrated him so no this ain't no stan shit it's just facts get out your feelings bruh

lol Nigga, I literally said I reflected on what you said and decided you were right about the Collaboration. I admitted wrong and gave you credit and you still in here whining. Ain't no feelings involved for me. You're the one proving your stanhood with every post. Just accept the shit and move on.

 

[GetoBoy]

You still don't see what you doing you asking for opinions while tryna say your opinion is the right one well wtf you asking for opinions for??? If I was on sum super fan shit like you said you'd just give him a 3 in every category I'd just give him a 5 in every category... notice how you spending the whole thread tryna push YOUR rating as opposed to just realizing your rating aren't facts and it isn't becuz anybody is a stan or overrating it's becuz music is subjective..... I think alot of your ratings are underrated and you think mine are overrated you don't think Jay has a great flow others do you don't think Jay is an elite collaborater (I really don't get that one) I do you don't think Jay is an exceptional story teller others might when you get to BIG you gonna have sum niggaz that give him a 5 on everything it is what it is your ratings aren't fact they your opinion

Nigga, nobody is in here acting like these are facts. I said in the opening piece that this is all going to be based on opinion. I provided the based scores so of course I believe they are right, but again I can be objective, if you provide a good argument and people agree with you, fine we can change it. But your arguments aren't good and no one is agreeing with you. And yes, you are a Jay-Z stan. I don't know why ya'll have such a hard time embracing that.

And my scores aren't just based on my opinions without any real reasoning. I gave you the reasoning why Jay deserves a 3 and not a 4. And that reasoning is based on facts. He doesn't do as much story telling as some of the higher tiered story tellers. His stories aren't as varied in topics as others. His stories in general aren't as creative. He's not spitting something like Nas' Rewind or Ghostface's The Watch. So if you go down everything that makes a good storyteller and see that Jay is pretty good in every area but not bringing as much as some of the elite storytellers in any area, how do you justify putting him on an Exceptional level? The purpose of this topic is for discussion. If you don't agree provide a suitable argument. Don't just get on here and say some bullshit like "Well, that's your opinion and my opinion is my opinion and our opinions are different and opinions are opinions and not facts." That's not supporting your case at all. It's just fluff. We don't have to agree on the ratings. We just have to present our cases for the ratings, and whoever has the stronger case is the one whose score will stick.

Nigga so far we got a

34.5

38

40

40.5

And others asking you how you rating him so low on certain areas

How you gonna say nobody agreeing with me if anything YOU the one ppl not agreeing with but aight man it's your thread.... And I gave my reasoning just becuz you don't agree don't mean the reasoning isn't there I'm not finna keep going back and forth defending my reasons becuz either way if somebody rates something high that you don't agree and they give a reason you don't agree as normal in the IC the first things niggaz go to is "you just being a stan" no how about you just underrating evidence by nobody score even being close to as low as yours but let me guess the others are stans too right.... Knock it off

Nigga you didn't give any reasoning. You just said you think Jay is a good storyteller and that that's your opinion. That's not an argument. And yes, people put higher scores than me, but none of you are giving reasons past your own opinion. It's fine for you to disagree with me, but if you want the main score adjusted provide an actual argument.

You think Jay's stories deserve to be a 4. Post some, explain why they are better than the stories from rappers that aren't 4s. Do anything but get on here and whine because I'm not agreeing with you. I outlined the format of this topic in the OP. If you just wanted to come in here and tell us you think Jay is the best, you could have saved that shit for the other Jay topics. There are actual rules and expectations in this thread and you want to ignore them and act like I'm in the wrong for not just accepting your bullshit.

Again, my scores are not final. If people have actual arguments, make them. A couple have made some arguments for his delivery. I made my counter. It seems like quite a few believe that I underrated his delivery, so I'm thinking about bumping it up to a 4. But you've made shitty arguments for both storytelling and collaboration, nobody is jumping to take your side on those, so why are acting like I'm being so unfair?

Nigga YOU the only one whining throughout this whole thread and m about anybody that don't agree with lol..... And how you gonna say I gave shitty examples for my collaborations score then adjust your score and reference me and my reasoning as to why??? That just shows I'm giving you good reasons you just not catching em on time you've underrated him more than I've overrated him so no this ain't no stan shit it's just facts get out your feelings bruh

lol Nigga, I literally said I reflected on what you said and decided you were right about the Collaboration. I admitted wrong and gave you credit and you still in here whining. Ain't no feelings involved for me. You're the one proving your stanhood with every post. Just accept the shit and move on.

Naw it's definitely feelings with you becuz instead of just excepting my reasoning as my reasoning and moving on you decided to try and clown my reasoning as sum stan shit only to reflect on it and realize I was right..... pull your skirt down and toughen up becuz if this how you gonna act for this whole series you tryna do you gonna have a lot more egg on face moments lol

 

[SlimRemy]

all the stuff happening and the arguments can be significantly reduced if we created that Categorical Standards sticky, and then use the sticky to reference or build arguments. so it becomes more objective. otherwise its just everyone stating their favorite, without really having anything to compare and contrast.

each category needs at least five songs to be referenced to explain or use for judging against. like if "I've Got A Story to Tell" is one, then maybe number two could be Slick Rick "Children's Story," "I Used to Love H.E.R." could be another storytelling standard, "Lodi Dodi," by Snoop Dogg can be another one, "Da Art of Storytellin" by Outkast.

and judge accordingly. but for each category. but what is considered a classic or level 5 should be established prior in that stickied thread.

 

[Madame_CJSkywalker]

T/s

Jay is a good to great story teller

Momma loves me

Meet the Parents

Friend or Foe

A week Ago

I Know

Fallen

Soon You’ll Understand

D'evils

Song Cry

Edit: 3 is fair... I'd maybe give him a 3.5

Think the aforementioned songs are also a good basis to boost his creativity score a notch

 

[Ear2DaSt]

can't knock his accomplishments but dang yall on his tip heavy ....

that make shit worse

 

[Ear2DaSt]

Yall as fans shouldn't have to over force his dominance

Yall act like how the IC goes the rap game goes like

dude's career depends on yall's over excessive stanning

it's like beating a dead horse

just let shit be and open your mind up to the idea of other music dude

voice that you aint gotta stan Jay-Z every 20 minutes it's disgusting

They don't do this on other rap websites the reason is notorious ....

You come in here the place is practically dead ... could it be the over stanning

like I said u can like dude but just keep it to yourself a lil more often

you can't make 1000 j-z posts a month that's over saturation .....