R.A. the Rugged Man: Macklemore's Using Gay Agenda for Fame

[Wild Self]

popular emcees today that you guys all love talk about:

selling drugs to the community

using drugs beyond any normal level of recreational consumption

violence and increasing crimes

gang tales they prolly dont really live

generally devaluing "straight laced normal kids who work hard in school" as lame

conspicuous consumption of money on the dumbest shit (cars, chains, clothes) rather than education and other things that are more valuable

and all kinds of other shit i can name

but you dont care about that

you care about a guy making a gay song

all of a sudden there is a "JEW AND GAY RUN CONSPIRACY TO PROMOTE GAY AGENDA"

im all for a proper critique of hip hop

but songs supporting gay marriage is not high on my list of things i think that need to be addressed.

when 9 out of the 10 songs on the radio are about gay marriage, then get back to me

You right on all those things and I said that shit for years, but cu back on the gay love thing and tolerate them as people.

On a similar note, people give JCole and Kendrick flack for not giving in to the caricature of the black male stereotype that has been hyped up since the late 90s super thug phase in Hip Hop.

 

[Wild Self]

Man I can't believe ima say this but @Elrawd crushing buildings around here.

Nothing in the original 5 elements speaks about sexuality or race. So saying hip-hop is "anti-homosexuality" I bullshit. It's all inclusive.

There's no rules saying you can't be white or that you can't be gay. The culture is not exclusive if it were millions of people the world over wouldn't be allowed in.

That's part 1.

Part 2 is where Elrawd is correct. There is a lot of blatant homoerotic behavior in hip-hop most notably in the emcee portion. You guys have already discussed the homoerotic language used and I agree it's mostly used as metaphor but it's used nonetheless and really there is no reason for it.

The mentality is also present, I mean some of the most deeply misogynist stuff comes out of rap but amongst that are tales of male bonding.

After all that we have to come to an understanding. Hip-hop is like cable TV now, if you don't like one channel you simply change it. If a gay rapper comes out then just don't listen to him, costs you nothing to ignore him.

Now I already know where that leads "but what about the kids? The shorties are gonna hear some faggot talking about being a fag and it might make then want to be a fag!!"

Crazy thing is that we don't consider that when we allow lyrics about rape, drug abuse, domestic violence, gang banging and unhealthy heterosexual relationships to be heard. When those snotty crackers and goody two shoes uncle toms want to blame hip-hop for violence and gang banging we quick to defend an say "hey, rap don't make you violent!" But now niggas want to say a rapper may make people gay?

You can't have it both ways. I'm of the opinion that neither will happen. A nigga ain't slanging dope because of Jeezy and a nigga ain't gonna want to sex up a man because some rapper does it either.

It's just simple logic.

GODDAMN!!!

 

[Wild Self]

You also hate the hyper masculinity shit and that is present as well. Hating it doesn't mean it's not there.

In no way is it a majority, but to say there is no influence is to disregard the basics. A lot of the lyrics are from views where prison is a reality for the individual.

Songs about prison:

Locked up - Akon and Styles P

What your life like - Beanie Sigel

Aint no sunshine - Kid Frost

Do your time - Ludacris

Phone time - CNN

Out on bail - Tupac

Last words - Nas

No Vaseline is straight prison culture. Dope track, but let's be real.

I agree, but I hate when the streets equates going to jail/ doing dirt as masculinity.

 

[LUClEN]

If the cultural event did not exist they would not have spoofed it. Their targeting the issue is evidence that it is there.

Gang bangs having existed longer than hip hop disproves what exactly? It does not disprove the homoeroticism in hip hop. It does not invalidate all of the gay lyrics in hip hop, like for example those of a hyper masculine nature that use male rape as a means of expressing domination and superiority.

They were spoofing hip hop music at the time. A lot of 1 hit wonders and dance/snap music. They just used homosexuality for the comedic effect.

When others before hip hop engaged in gang bangs were there some underlying homoerotic tendencies among them? So why is that different with the hip hop culture?

Now you're talking about male rape? Bruh I'm getting uncomfortable now. How is this proving anything?

The homoeroticism was funny because it was true.

When others before hip hop engaged in gang bangs it was absolutely homoerotic. Why wouldn't it be?

You're uncomfortable about the idea of male rape as it is very gay. But it is abundant in rap. It becomes less gay when you say it in a song?

The homo element was used because of how rappers carry themselves as tough guys. There's nothing more effeminate than implied homosexuality. The point of the episode wasn't to merely talk about homosexuality in hip hop but it's to shit on hip hop at the time with one hit wonders and snap music and how rappers aren't always what they say they are.

As for your point about gang bangs. I don't agree with that action but as long as the dudes aren't interacting with each other I can't say its gay. But this is deviating from the point.

If male rape is apart of hip hop culture then by your logic anything rappers talk about could be apart of the culture too? So Christianity

Is as hip hop as male rape? And who is rapping about rapping other men by the way?

The no homo bit appears to just be juvenalian satire of the trend cam'ron, lil wayne and others popularized.

Saying that you are going to run a train on mobb deep = dudes interacting with dudes. Are you saying that is a heterosexual thing for Tupac to say?

Male rape is a apart of American culture really. It's a common element in film, television and literature. But I would say that if something is common in rap lyrics it is a part of the culture so yes I agree Christianity is huge in hip hop. Much bigger than male rape really. You'll be hard pressed to find a rapper than hasn't worn a jesus piece at least some point in their career

 

[Meta_Conscious]

Wearing a Jesus piece makes one a Christian?

 

[LUClEN]

Wearing a Jesus piece makes one a Christian?

It's a blatant symbol of Christianity. No other religion is referenced as much as Christianity in hip hop.

I swear to God I just want to slit my wrists and end this bullshit

Only god can judge me

I went to hell for snuffing jesus

slapbox with jesus lick shots at joseph

God show me the way because the devil's trying to break me down

God forgive me for my brash delivery

We really going to pretend there is no Christianity in hip hop?

 

[Meta_Conscious]

References and imagery do not constitute themes or adherence to religion.

Part of the issue I'm having is that ppl look at hip hop in a vacuum in an attempt to critique it.

The US is a racist, homophobic, sexist, and Christian.. Hip hop is not special in these elements.

It exists within American cultural beliefs, norms, etc...

Hip hop is no more "gay" than any other form of American art...

It's no more homophobic than any other American art form...

Hip hop is resistant to the gay shit because Americans are...

 

[5th Letter]

If the cultural event did not exist they would not have spoofed it. Their targeting the issue is evidence that it is there.

Gang bangs having existed longer than hip hop disproves what exactly? It does not disprove the homoeroticism in hip hop. It does not invalidate all of the gay lyrics in hip hop, like for example those of a hyper masculine nature that use male rape as a means of expressing domination and superiority.

They were spoofing hip hop music at the time. A lot of 1 hit wonders and dance/snap music. They just used homosexuality for the comedic effect.

When others before hip hop engaged in gang bangs were there some underlying homoerotic tendencies among them? So why is that different with the hip hop culture?

Now you're talking about male rape? Bruh I'm getting uncomfortable now. How is this proving anything?

The homoeroticism was funny because it was true.

When others before hip hop engaged in gang bangs it was absolutely homoerotic. Why wouldn't it be?

You're uncomfortable about the idea of male rape as it is very gay. But it is abundant in rap. It becomes less gay when you say it in a song?

The homo element was used because of how rappers carry themselves as tough guys. There's nothing more effeminate than implied homosexuality. The point of the episode wasn't to merely talk about homosexuality in hip hop but it's to shit on hip hop at the time with one hit wonders and snap music and how rappers aren't always what they say they are.

As for your point about gang bangs. I don't agree with that action but as long as the dudes aren't interacting with each other I can't say its gay. But this is deviating from the point.

If male rape is apart of hip hop culture then by your logic anything rappers talk about could be apart of the culture too? So Christianity

Is as hip hop as male rape? And who is rapping about rapping other men by the way?

The no homo bit appears to just be juvenalian satire of the trend cam'ron, lil wayne and others popularized.

Saying that you are going to run a train on mobb deep = dudes interacting with dudes. Are you saying that is a heterosexual thing for Tupac to say?

Male rape is a apart of American culture really. It's a common element in film, television and literature. But I would say that if something is common in rap lyrics it is a part of the culture so yes I agree Christianity is huge in hip hop. Much bigger than male rape really. You'll be hard pressed to find a rapper than hasn't worn a jesus piece at least some point in their career

The problem is that you're incorporating certain terms ie running a train and saying that is a reason why hip hop is prison culture. That is far from the truth.

 

[LUClEN]

References and imagery do not constitute themes or adherence to religion.

Part of the issue I'm having is that ppl look at hip hop in a vacuum in an attempt to critique it.

The US is a racist, homophobic, sexist, and Christian.. Hip hop is not special in these elements.

It exists within American cultural beliefs, norms, etc...

Hip hop is no more "gay" than any other form of American art...

It's no more homophobic than any other American art form...

Hip hop is resistant to the gay shit because Americans are...

I agree. One could easily make the argument that rock music is just as homophobic and homoerotic if not more so. These ideas also being present in the larger culture of America as a whole does not mean they are not in hip hop though.

 

[LUClEN]

If the cultural event did not exist they would not have spoofed it. Their targeting the issue is evidence that it is there.

Gang bangs having existed longer than hip hop disproves what exactly? It does not disprove the homoeroticism in hip hop. It does not invalidate all of the gay lyrics in hip hop, like for example those of a hyper masculine nature that use male rape as a means of expressing domination and superiority.

They were spoofing hip hop music at the time. A lot of 1 hit wonders and dance/snap music. They just used homosexuality for the comedic effect.

When others before hip hop engaged in gang bangs were there some underlying homoerotic tendencies among them? So why is that different with the hip hop culture?

Now you're talking about male rape? Bruh I'm getting uncomfortable now. How is this proving anything?

The homoeroticism was funny because it was true.

When others before hip hop engaged in gang bangs it was absolutely homoerotic. Why wouldn't it be?

You're uncomfortable about the idea of male rape as it is very gay. But it is abundant in rap. It becomes less gay when you say it in a song?

The homo element was used because of how rappers carry themselves as tough guys. There's nothing more effeminate than implied homosexuality. The point of the episode wasn't to merely talk about homosexuality in hip hop but it's to shit on hip hop at the time with one hit wonders and snap music and how rappers aren't always what they say they are.

As for your point about gang bangs. I don't agree with that action but as long as the dudes aren't interacting with each other I can't say its gay. But this is deviating from the point.

If male rape is apart of hip hop culture then by your logic anything rappers talk about could be apart of the culture too? So Christianity

Is as hip hop as male rape? And who is rapping about rapping other men by the way?

The no homo bit appears to just be juvenalian satire of the trend cam'ron, lil wayne and others popularized.

Saying that you are going to run a train on mobb deep = dudes interacting with dudes. Are you saying that is a heterosexual thing for Tupac to say?

Male rape is a apart of American culture really. It's a common element in film, television and literature. But I would say that if something is common in rap lyrics it is a part of the culture so yes I agree Christianity is huge in hip hop. Much bigger than male rape really. You'll be hard pressed to find a rapper than hasn't worn a jesus piece at least some point in their career

The problem is that you're incorporating certain terms ie running a train and saying that is a reason why hip hop is prison culture. That is far from the truth.

Hip hop is not prison culture. I never said that.

I am saying that many elements of prison culture are perpetuated within the music by various artists. One such idea is the notion of a man having sex with another man as a way to prove he is dominant. Tupac saying he is going to have sex with mobb deep fits in perfectly with that.

 

[Wild Self]

@Elward is bringing up great points in here.

 

[nujerz84]

This the clip elward mentioned from the Documentary on Hip Hop this segment is about Homo Eroticsism etc....

 

[Lab Baby]

Reading this thread made me realize how gay American culture is. All things being argued here points to the American psyche. Male dominance, obsession of our/another man's piece and who/what we stick it in, the dehumanization of (Black) women... it's like we're so afraid of our feminine side and our flaws that we take that fear out on anyone that even remotely represents them.

People wanna criticize Mackelmore for the song, but ironically he was pointing out the major flaw with humanity, the same flaw that made people flip out on him... we're scared of what society thinks of us to the point that we sacrifice our own individuality to fit in, identify with the stereotypes they created for us, and in turn lash out on people for being themselves.

It's said that being gay isn't natural, but neither is systematically blocking a person from being a human. We're the only species on Earth that create and follow laws that dictate how to be YOU, then prosecute those that don't comply. And it's not just the gay thing... anyone that's an individual gets labeled and bunched in a group so they can lose their individuality. They put a fake caste system on race, gender, class, sexual orientation, etc... and we all fall for the okey doke just to be involved.

Hip hop is created by people, so of course our psyches will manifest themselves in the culture. There are no official rules on how to conduct ourselves other than the five elements and Bam's mantra (peace, unity, love and having fun), but the one common factor hip hop has represented throughout its existence is individuality. Gay people may not have been in mind during its conception, but that doesn't mean we should exclude them from it either. Doing that only repeats the problems of the society we are trying to rise above.

Niggas don't like the point in the song, disagree and keep it moving. But all this "gay agenda" bullshit (there is one, but c'mon now) is ridiculous. We attack Mackelmore for voicing his opinion instead of the system that dehumanizes us. A system that'll more than likely benefit from his stance, but that's not his fault. Of all the fuckery that goes on in hip hop, the last thing we should give a fuck about is a man with an outside opinion.

 

[LUClEN]

This the clip elward mentioned from the Documentary on Hip Hop this segment is about Homo Eroticsism etc....

lmao @ the 5 minute mark. Busta leaving gets me every time, shit is hilarious

 

[SheerExcellence]

If the cultural event did not exist they would not have spoofed it. Their targeting the issue is evidence that it is there.

Gang bangs having existed longer than hip hop disproves what exactly? It does not disprove the homoeroticism in hip hop. It does not invalidate all of the gay lyrics in hip hop, like for example those of a hyper masculine nature that use male rape as a means of expressing domination and superiority.

They were spoofing hip hop music at the time. A lot of 1 hit wonders and dance/snap music. They just used homosexuality for the comedic effect.

When others before hip hop engaged in gang bangs were there some underlying homoerotic tendencies among them? So why is that different with the hip hop culture?

Now you're talking about male rape? Bruh I'm getting uncomfortable now. How is this proving anything?

The homoeroticism was funny because it was true.

When others before hip hop engaged in gang bangs it was absolutely homoerotic. Why wouldn't it be?

You're uncomfortable about the idea of male rape as it is very gay. But it is abundant in rap. It becomes less gay when you say it in a song?

The homo element was used because of how rappers carry themselves as tough guys. There's nothing more effeminate than implied homosexuality. The point of the episode wasn't to merely talk about homosexuality in hip hop but it's to shit on hip hop at the time with one hit wonders and snap music and how rappers aren't always what they say they are.

As for your point about gang bangs. I don't agree with that action but as long as the dudes aren't interacting with each other I can't say its gay. But this is deviating from the point.

If male rape is apart of hip hop culture then by your logic anything rappers talk about could be apart of the culture too? So Christianity

Is as hip hop as male rape? And who is rapping about rapping other men by the way?

The no homo bit appears to just be juvenalian satire of the trend cam'ron, lil wayne and others popularized.

Saying that you are going to run a train on mobb deep = dudes interacting with dudes. Are you saying that is a heterosexual thing for Tupac to say?

Male rape is a apart of American culture really. It's a common element in film, television and literature. But I would say that if something is common in rap lyrics it is a part of the culture so yes I agree Christianity is huge in hip hop. Much bigger than male rape really. You'll be hard pressed to find a rapper than hasn't worn a jesus piece at least some point in their career

The problem is that you're incorporating certain terms ie running a train and saying that is a reason why hip hop is prison culture. That is far from the truth.

Hip hop is not prison culture. I never said that.

I am saying that many elements of prison culture are perpetuated within the music by various artists. One such idea is the notion of a man having sex with another man as a way to prove he is dominant. Tupac saying he is going to have sex with mobb deep fits in perfectly with that.

and dont forget snoop and them talking about sticking they dick and nuts in luke campbells mouth

"with my nuts on your tonsils"

re listening to that shit im like wtf?

this shit was mad suspect, but they just said it like it no big deal

 

[5th Letter]

If the cultural event did not exist they would not have spoofed it. Their targeting the issue is evidence that it is there.

Gang bangs having existed longer than hip hop disproves what exactly? It does not disprove the homoeroticism in hip hop. It does not invalidate all of the gay lyrics in hip hop, like for example those of a hyper masculine nature that use male rape as a means of expressing domination and superiority.

They were spoofing hip hop music at the time. A lot of 1 hit wonders and dance/snap music. They just used homosexuality for the comedic effect.

When others before hip hop engaged in gang bangs were there some underlying homoerotic tendencies among them? So why is that different with the hip hop culture?

Now you're talking about male rape? Bruh I'm getting uncomfortable now. How is this proving anything?

The homoeroticism was funny because it was true.

When others before hip hop engaged in gang bangs it was absolutely homoerotic. Why wouldn't it be?

You're uncomfortable about the idea of male rape as it is very gay. But it is abundant in rap. It becomes less gay when you say it in a song?

The homo element was used because of how rappers carry themselves as tough guys. There's nothing more effeminate than implied homosexuality. The point of the episode wasn't to merely talk about homosexuality in hip hop but it's to shit on hip hop at the time with one hit wonders and snap music and how rappers aren't always what they say they are.

As for your point about gang bangs. I don't agree with that action but as long as the dudes aren't interacting with each other I can't say its gay. But this is deviating from the point.

If male rape is apart of hip hop culture then by your logic anything rappers talk about could be apart of the culture too? So Christianity

Is as hip hop as male rape? And who is rapping about rapping other men by the way?

The no homo bit appears to just be juvenalian satire of the trend cam'ron, lil wayne and others popularized.

Saying that you are going to run a train on mobb deep = dudes interacting with dudes. Are you saying that is a heterosexual thing for Tupac to say?

Male rape is a apart of American culture really. It's a common element in film, television and literature. But I would say that if something is common in rap lyrics it is a part of the culture so yes I agree Christianity is huge in hip hop. Much bigger than male rape really. You'll be hard pressed to find a rapper than hasn't worn a jesus piece at least some point in their career

The problem is that you're incorporating certain terms ie running a train and saying that is a reason why hip hop is prison culture. That is far from the truth.

Hip hop is not prison culture. I never said that.

I am saying that many elements of prison culture are perpetuated within the music by various artists. One such idea is the notion of a man having sex with another man as a way to prove he is dominant. Tupac saying he is going to have sex with mobb deep fits in perfectly with that.

One man being dominant over the other isn't a prison thing bruh.

 

[LUClEN]

Expressing said dominance through fornication is.

You keep sidestepping the issue. Fucking men with no vaseline is straight prison talk. Yet it's also the subject of one of hip hop's most revered diss tracks. Grown men have often talked about raping other grown men, or receiving fellatio from other grown men in hip hop as a way to express that they are superior. It's pretty gay.

 

[Meta_Conscious]

That didn't originate in prison nor is it more prevalent in hip hop than anywhere else...

 

[LUClEN]

That didn't originate in prison nor is it more prevalent in hip hop than anywhere else...

While it did not originate in prison I would say it's more prevalent in hip hop than in classical music, or feminist poetry, or Chinese philosophy.

What other mediums communicate such ideas as often as rap?

 

[Lab Baby]

The question is, do we want to assimilate hip hop into American culture, which is deep rooted in eurocentrism, materialism, sexism, homophobia and systematic violence? America was once a land where women had little/no rights, black people were seen as property, your tax bracket determined who you are as a person, and anyone that said or did anything that contradicted the system got immediately prosecuted. All those things plagued our community for a long time. Hip hop has helped break down all these barriers since its inception. We still got work to do, but we came a long way, and thanks to hip hop these problems are at least brought to light.

My thing is, everything that can be argued against homosexuality was at one point used against us. The bible, social norms, "family values" (like they don't intentionally separate Black families, fuck outta here). So, do we stop now when a gay rights issue is brought up? Do we side with America, that was and still is against us this whole time? Or do we carry on tradition and continue to break these barriers? Granted, Mackelmore is a "visitor", but he presented what I thought was a good idea for hip hop to move forward.