Questions and Statements about God...

[janklow]

Ok ill give it to you it wasnt solely religion but also greed, however that greed was derived from religious beliefs.

again, i am calling this inaccurate. it's an excuse. it's not like anyone's religion said "it's cool for you to kill Jews and take their shit." that's greed, not religion.

How would him being a christian only be half right? He was raised Roman Catholic then converted fully to christianity once he came to power in Germany?

calling him a Christian would only be half-right because he, on numerous occasions, spoke against the bad effects Christianity had on Germany and railed against it when it opposed him. this is why they talked about a Reich church that was based on Nazism and not Christianity. did he know how to push people's buttons using religion? of course. but he also started a war based on getting Germany "living space," not a war about religion.

As for world war 1, Archduke Ferdinand was assassinated by a group called the Black Hand, this group was basically Athiest and Ferdinand had put out memos to contain the group and imprison the members for not believing and trying to go against his religion. Because of the hit put on them basically the Black Hand assassinated him before his plan would follow through, this is what in turn set off world war 1. So again stop calling me out on shit until you do your own research stop speakin out of your ass.

well...

01. you seem to be ignoring the fact that the Black Hand had nationalist goals from breaking the Serbs away from the Austro-Hungarian Empire. this was not about religion OR some claim that Ferdinand was against them for religious reasons. it makes no sense that he'd be against a secessionist group?

02. was this the reason that countries like Germany jumped into the war? because when hostilities break down to mainly France and Germany going at it, some Balkan religious squabble seems like it's not going to explain every motivation.

but please, start talking some shit about me "calling you out" because i don't agree with your notions.

 

[ThaChozenWun]

again, i am calling this inaccurate. it's an excuse. it's not like anyone's religion said "it's cool for you to kill Jews and take their shit." that's greed, not religion.

calling him a Christian would only be half-right because he, on numerous occasions, spoke against the bad effects Christianity had on Germany and railed against it when it opposed him. this is why they talked about a Reich church that was based on Nazism and not Christianity. did he know how to push people's buttons using religion? of course. but he also started a war based on getting Germany "living space," not a war about religion.

well...

01. you seem to be ignoring the fact that the Black Hand had nationalist goals from breaking the Serbs away from the Austro-Hungarian Empire. this was not about religion OR some claim that Ferdinand was against them for religious reasons. it makes no sense that he'd be against a secessionist group?

02. was this the reason that countries like Germany jumped into the war? because when hostilities break down to mainly France and Germany going at it, some Balkan religious squabble seems like it's not going to explain every motivation.

but please, start talking some shit about me "calling you out" because i don't agree with your notions.

Im not saying your wrong you may be right but I havent seen anything laying claim to this, when I read it the first time a few posts ago I tried searching and found nothing about Hitler being against any Christian views, if you could find them and link me to them Id gladly read and admit your right. But honestly I looked and found nothing then and have never read anything stating this.

As far as the black hand you have your opinion i respect that and I have mine. No one really knows what happened other than they did assassinate Ferdinand, everything else was hear say and the only book written claims it was over religious views, again though this book may not be credible considering it was written in 1982 I think, Ill have to see if I still have it. We could argue but theres no "real" proof on either side so ill leave it be.

I dont see how you cannot honestly without bias look at wars though and see that at least some of them are regligious wars only and thats it. I should have made the thread title Why religion is dangerous not God because people who believe in a God arent the bad ones, its certain people who believe books written well after the fact with no proof what-so-ever that turn people into Gods soldiers and they set out to carry out gods plan based on that book. The perfect example of religion being dangerous is the problem of global warming, you have Christians who refuse to do things to help with the issue because they believe god will do it when we clearly have the ability as humans to do something. You cant pray away problems, religion is just a front so people dont have to be responsible for this kind of action. Not many people are taking resposibility for they themself helping destroy the earth, they would rather sit back and say its gods plan if he wants the world to get through it so be it, if not ill sit here and gladly die for my creator. Thats nonsense, we have the resources to fix these things so we need to act on it. I dont see anywhere in the bible where it says man is not responsible for his own actions yet so many people let these things go because they think its god controlling it all.

EDIT : I found the book it was published in 96 I thought it was way earlier but none the less its called "Ideology and International Relations in the Modern World" It has about 4 chapters in their dedicated exclusively to THE BLACK HAND and their beliefs and why the carried out certain hits. These were all written down by someone named Gravilo Princip in the early 1900's and used in the book. Again it may or may not be fact but the guy has very good evidence to support his claims and writings.

 

[NothingButTheTruth]

Believing in God is nowhere near the same thing as being religious. Like Common said, "Why do I have to have a religion, if I believe in God?"

 

[alissowack]

I don't know why you are fixated on this idea that I'm talking about everyone -- every rape victim, every quadriplegic, etc. I'm not. I'm talking about those people who are devastated for the rest of their lives. What about the children who do suffer lifelong psychological devastation? The people for which no positive outcome ever follows their suffering? Those are the people I'm talking about. Why would a compassionate god let people's lives become living hells through no fault of their own?

And are you implying that people suffer emotionally or psychologically in heaven?

Well, then it is not a matter of whether someone goes through suffering. It is a matter of someone's will to deal with suffering. There are people out there that will go their entire lives at the bottom of life. Yet some have the will to either deal with it, or be consumed by it. I believe it's more our fault for we allow ourselves to think once tragedy strikes, that we don't have a second chance at life. We stop living and start focusing on the injustice and the shame until it consumes our lives.

I'm suggesting a spiritual suffering; a longing for something we cannot see, but it is there and just don't know how to attain it.

 

[The GMW]

Well, then it is not a matter of whether someone goes through suffering. It is a matter of someone's will to deal with suffering. There are people out there that will go their entire lives at the bottom of life. Yet some have the will to either deal with it, or be consumed by it. I believe it's more our fault for we allow ourselves to think once tragedy strikes, that we don't have a second chance at life. We stop living and start focusing on the injustice and the shame until it consumes our lives.

I'm suggesting a spiritual suffering; a longing for something we cannot see, but it is there and just don't know how to attain it.

So basically, you're saying that for people who endure things like childhood rape, losing their entire families, etc., their suffering is their fault because they won't just get over it? That when something traumatic happens, an individual can simply 'choose' to deal with it and move on with his life?

And please elaborate on what people in heaven long for; I was under the impression that once you reach heaven, your existence could not possibly be better.

 

[Chike]

____________________________________________

 

[Chike]

from "God on trial"
[video=youtube;4A5MM9XBGT8]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4A5MM9XBGT8[/video]

Crazy thing about that scene, is Those jews aren't the original Jews. They're white imposters, therefore technically God was never on their side.

 

[Chike]

^^^^I know!! Damn actors! Always acting!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!1

I know! Whether they are in movies or not, they always acting!

 

[alissowack]

So basically, you're saying that for people who endure things like childhood rape, losing their entire families, etc., their suffering is their fault because they won't just get over it? That when something traumatic happens, an individual can simply 'choose' to deal with it and move on with his life?

And please elaborate on what people in heaven long for; I was under the impression that once you reach heaven, your existence could not possibly be better.

Well, that's one attitude towards it but it is not what I'm suggesting. Something like rape will never leave a person. They would want justice; they would feel shame and have a lack of trust. The fault comes when we don't attempt to cope with it in a positive way; seek help, find people who share in the same struggle and find a reason to trust again. If possible, seek justice.

I believe everybody worships something. It may not be God and we go to a church to do rituals or something, but it is something that we look to that gives us a sense of identity, a sense of self-worth; something that defines our life (or is life); something that lasts. Some people use a career their "god". Some use financial status. Some use a position of power. Whatever it is, we are looking for something to worship.

 

[ThaChozenWun]

They take after their father?

 

[DoUwant2go2Heaven]

Jeremiah 45

"1 The word that Jeremiah the prophet spake unto Baruch the son of Neriah, when he had written these words in a book at the mouth of Jeremiah, in the fourth year of Jehoiakim the son of Josiah king of Judah, saying, 2 Thus saith the LORD, the God of Israel, unto thee, O Baruch: 3 Thou didst say, Woe is me now! for the LORD hath added grief to my sorrow; I fainted in my sighing, and I find no rest. 4 Thus shalt thou say unto him, The LORD saith thus; Behold, that which I have built will I break down, and that which I have planted I will pluck up, even this whole land. 5 And seekest thou great things for thyself? seek them not: for, behold, I will bring evil upon all flesh, saith the LORD: but thy life will I give unto thee for a prey in all places whither thou goest."

God was speaking to me through this passage of scripture last night. There is a lot going in this passage of scripture, but the main key I want to point out is verse 4. God has built America into a great and mighty nation. God has planted this nation to be a light unto the world. No where on planet earth has a country been given so much prosperity and freedom than in the United States of America. And basically God was telling me that the time is near for God to judge this land. What God has built, He will break down and what God has planted, He will pluck up, EVEN THIS WHOLE ENTIRE LAND. America is in for a rude awakening. Judgment is fast approaching.

God also told me that the attack on Israel is coming soon. When? I don't know. But God said in His word that every nation will turn it's back on Israel in the last days, which even means the United States, who is Israel closest ally. One of the main reasons why God has yet to judge America, even though our cup of judgment has been filled to the brim, is because we support Israel. God is true to His word and He said it all the way back in Genesis 12:2-3, "And I will make of thee a great nation, and I will bless thee, and make thy name great; and thou shalt be a blessing: 3 And I will bless them that bless thee, and curse him that curseth thee: and in thee shall all families of the earth be blessed." God continues to bless America because we stand with Israel, but this relationship will be broken in the future and when that happens judgment will come fast and hard upon America.

Just some food for thought.

 

[ThaChozenWun]

God revealed himself to you? Now i know where these priests are getting their ideas from.

Really though how did he give you this scripture last night, did he appear in a dream and be like "Ayo peep this page" or what?

And God didnt found nor build America, Freemasons pretty much created the " Idea of America" and layed the foundation for all of us to prosper and be free, God had nothing to do with this country, what made us so great acually was the freedom of religion.

 

[grumpy_new_yorker]

you motherfuckers are lucid

 

[DoUwant2go2Heaven]

God revealed himself to you? Now i know where these priests are getting their ideas from.

Really though how did he give you this scripture last night, did he appear in a dream and be like "Ayo peep this page" or what?

And God didnt found nor build America, Freemasons pretty much created the " Idea of America" and layed the foundation for all of us to prosper and be free, God had nothing to do with this country, what made us so great acually was the freedom of religion.

If you had a personal relationship with Jesus Christ, you would know how God speaks. But yes, God led me to that passage of scripture and revealed His truth to me. He always does that though. It's nothing strange to the believer.

 

[DoUwant2go2Heaven]

you motherfuckers are lucid

Why do you say that?

 

[phanatron]

God continues to bless America because we stand with Israel, but this relationship will be broken in the future and when that happens judgment will come fast and hard upon America.



Just some food for thought.

This was the principle reason that no matter how much of a failure George W. was, he always had the Evangelicals on board. They took his support for Israel and his actions in Iraq as part of the end time prophecies.

 

[ThaChozenWun]

If you had a personal relationship with Jesus Christ, you would know how God speaks. But yes, God led me to that passage of scripture and revealed His truth to me. He always does that though. It's nothing strange to the believer.

I had a personal relationship with God and Jesus Christ for most of my life until recently why is it I was not spoken to during that time period. I mean that would seem god was picking favorites ...... or didnt have my phone number.

 

[DoUwant2go2Heaven]

This was the principle reason that no matter how much of a failure George W. was, he always had the Evangelicals on board. They took his support for Israel and his actions in Iraq as part of the end time prophecies.

I believe it has more to do with Romans 13 in my opinion.

 

[DoUwant2go2Heaven]

I had a personal relationship with God and Jesus Christ for most of my life until recently why is it I was not spoken to during that time period. I mean that would seem god was picking favorites ...... or didnt have my phone number.

If you have broken fellowship with the Lord than it must be because of sin. Light and darkness can not mix. Confess your sins to God and He will receive you my brother. God wants to have fellowship with you, but you can not be slave to 2 masters. You will either love the one and hate the other or hate the one and love the other. God placed this on my heart and I want to share this passage of scripture with you.



"14 Be ye not unequally yoked together with unbelievers: for what fellowship hath righteousness with unrighteousness? and what communion hath light with darkness? 15 And what concord hath Christ with Belial? or what part hath he that believeth with an infidel?

16 And what agreement hath the temple of God with idols? for ye are the temple of the living God; as God hath said, I will dwell in them, and walk in them; and I will be their God, and they shall be my people.

17 Wherefore come out from among them, and be ye separate, saith the Lord, and touch not the unclean thing; and I will receive you.

18 And will be a Father unto you, and ye shall be my sons and daughters, saith the Lord Almighty."

2 Corinthians 6:14-18

 

[janklow]

Im not saying your wrong you may be right but I havent seen anything laying claim to this, when I read it the first time a few posts ago I tried searching and found nothing about Hitler being against any Christian views, if you could find them and link me to them Id gladly read and admit your right. But honestly I looked and found nothing then and have never read anything stating this.

start with reading the Rise and Fall of the Third Reich, which specifically talks about what i mentioned.

No one really knows what happened other than they did assassinate Ferdinand, everything else was hear say and the only book written claims it was over religious views, again though this book may not be credible considering it was written in 1982 I think, Ill have to see if I still have it. We could argue but theres no "real" proof on either side so ill leave it be.

well, the political ramifications of the act are not "hearsay." i've never read anything that claims the Black Hand was religious rather than nationalistic. i'm not being flip, i'm not being difficult ... i've just never read anything making that claim. if [link=http://wwi.lib.byu.edu/index.php/Constitution_of_the_Black_Hand]this document[/link] is accurate, then the reasoning being their actions is pretty clear:

"Article 1. For the purpose of realising the national ideals - the Unification of Serbdom - an organization is hereby created, whose members may be any Serbian irrespective of sex, religion, place or birth, as well as anybody else who will sincerely serve this idea."

side note: this has also side-stepped my point about other nations' involvement in the war, for the record.

I dont see how you cannot honestly without bias look at wars though and see that at least some of them are regligious wars only and thats it.

and i don't see how you cannot honestly see how religion is used as an excuse for wars fought for other reasons. basically, we can agree to disagree, but i've stated what i think are completely reasonable reasons (ugh, redundancy) as to why the wars you mentioned were not really about religion.

now if you have some other wars that you think similar things about, i'm willing to consider your arguments for them.