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A$AP_A$TON
New member
af.r.i.c.a.;7073030 said:Who wins this Dunk Contest?
Lavine
Wiggins
A.Gordon
Markell Brown
Nick Johnson
Adrain Payne
Wiggins or Gordon
S2J;7074086 said:MarcusGarvey;7073803 said:I wouldn't give Kyrie a max 2nd contract in terms of dollars, I'd give him max in years. Y'all tripping of you think he's a max player. He's not transcendent, percentages declined year over year.
Bennett draft year was weak, remains to be seen. Tristan pick was a reach, he was thought to be 10-13 range. Waiters pick I didn't like at the time.
zerocool;7073889 said:MarcusGarvey;7073803 said:I wouldn't give Kyrie a max 2nd conttract in terms of dollars, I'd give him max in years. Y'all tripping of you think he's a max player. He's not transcendent, percentages declined year over year.
Bennett draft year was weak, remains to be seen. Tristan pick was a reach, he was thought to be 10-13 range. Waiters pick I didn't like at the time.
Kyrie hasn't done shit to warrant a max contract
Utah is about to give a near max contract to Gordon Hayward.
Its all about supply and demand, and whether its a buyer's or seller's market. And LEVERAGE.
Cleveland---and Utah, Milwaukee, etc---have NONE. If those teams ever want to be formidable in any way, you keep your stars. And yes Kyrie is a star. He has plenty of flaws, but he is also what 23? You dont throw out the baby with the bath water.
Yall seriously dont understand what 'max player' even means.
Word.... who else Cleveland gonna give the Max to? lol
MarcusGarvey
New member
@S2J - yes we don't understand what max money means. Or maybe we wouldn't be dumb enough to pay it if we were in charge. I'd trade him if he wants out, you got the number one pick in a good draft. He's not irreplaceable
This is going to be a big year for Kyrie, he's got to turn his team around. He plays in the East, you can't win 40 games? But guess what he's not a star. He's a good player, fun to watch when he's on but I'm not paying 2nd contract max.
This is going to be a big year for Kyrie, he's got to turn his team around. He plays in the East, you can't win 40 games? But guess what he's not a star. He's a good player, fun to watch when he's on but I'm not paying 2nd contract max.
af.r.i.c.a.
New member
Kyrie is getting Max whether it be with the Cavs or another team
MarcusGarvey;7074362 said:@S2J - yes we don't understand what max money means. Or maybe we wouldn't be dumb enough to pay it if we were in charge. I'd trade him if he wants out, you got the number one pick in a good draft. He's not irreplaceable
This is going to be a big year for Kyrie, he's got to turn his team around. He plays in the East, you can't win 40 games? But guess what he's not a star. He's a good player, fun to watch when he's on but I'm not paying 2nd contract max.
af.r.i.c.a.;7074484 said:Kyrie is getting Max whether it be with the Cavs or another team
That's as plain as day as i can put it. No one cares what you would do Lol This game aint just about W's. Its about butts in seats. Branding, Marketability. 90% of teams would give Kyrie and his Uncle Drew commercials the max. All star MVP when Bron and Durant are still alive? KYS. He's getting max. Period.
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MarcusGarvey
New member
First, second, third team all nba?
Top 5 in MVP votes?
Defensive first, second or third team?
Playoff game appearances?
Glad to see the standards have been lowered. That's how Mitch Richmond gets in to the HOF
Top 5 in MVP votes?
Defensive first, second or third team?
Playoff game appearances?
Glad to see the standards have been lowered. That's how Mitch Richmond gets in to the HOF
Peezy_Jenkins
New member
Yea kyrie definitely getting max, whether he deserves it or not is a whole nother thing, rashard Lewis one of my favorite players, he once got a max n played well but was never a superstar, I think kyrie still has superstar potential tho
MarcusGarvey
New member
Peezy_Jenkins;7075268 said:Yea kyrie definitely getting max, whether he deserves it or not is a whole nother thing, rashard Lewis one of my favorite players, he once got a max n played well but was never a superstar, I think kyrie still has superstar potential tho
What about his game has superstar potential?
MarcusGarvey
New member
If you say scoring then his efficiency will decrease as with most guards. Is he the shooter we saw when taking 14-16 (rookie year) shots as oppose 18-20 (now).
Does he rebound well for his position? Does he guard his position?
Is he a good playmaker? 6apg? Nope. Tunnel vision.
Does he rebound well for his position? Does he guard his position?
Is he a good playmaker? 6apg? Nope. Tunnel vision.
Peezy_Jenkins
New member
but he's young and can improve on those things, i dont think the playmaking is that bad, 6 ast is very solid. its just he has to tone down the and 1 tendencies, he'll get better with that with experience and realizing making his teammates better will lead to more wins. i also think he is a pretty good shooter he's just gotta control the forced shots, and most of all, he needs to stay healthy. imo.
af.r.i.c.a.
New member
MarcusGarvey;7075311 said:If you say scoring then his efficiency will decrease as with most guards. Is he the shooter we saw when taking 14-16 (rookie year) shots as oppose 18-20 (now).
Does he rebound well for his position? Does he guard his position?
Is he a good playmaker? 6apg? Nope. Tunnel vision.
He's great scorer that had a down season. He has in the building range and finishes really well at the rim. His handle is superb and as bad a defender as he is he still does a decent job of playing the passing lanes and forcing turnovers. He's likely to average over 20 PPG over the next 8 years which is impressive tho he needs to be more efficient. I see what your saying and you even left out the fact that he's injury prone but even with that being said he's a all star with plenty potential moving forward. Teams aren't going to be giving out max as often under the new CBA so I expect fewer teams to be in the race but I'm willing to bet there's at least 3 teams that would give Kyrie max Today if he agreed to sign. A change of scenery would help the kid a lot imo along with some coaching stability and veteran leadership. I don't think he's a natural leader like Lebron or CP3... some guys are just not meant to lead. He's going to need to play on a team that either has a leader or a great coach in order to fully thrive.
MarcusGarvey
New member
Parker comes away with the most impressive workout
Parker reminded us all on Friday that he also is still in this mix to be the top pick. In fact, I thought Parker's workout was the most impressive of the three that I saw. Here's why: Parker is the most skilled of the top three players in the draft and he attacked that workout like it was a national championship game. Not only did he go harder than Wiggins or Embiid, he went harder than anyone else I've seen in a workout this year. It reminded me, a little, of the great workout Damian Lillard did in Oakland a few years ago. Aggressiveness and competitiveness show in things like this, and Parker passed those tests with flying colors.
And Parker did it without being in elite shape. About 20 or so minutes into the workout he got very winded and even, for a brief second, leaned on a garbage can close to where I was sitting. But he fought through the moment of fatigue and finished the workout strong with a series of impressive dunks alongside Jerami Grant.
A source in Parker's camp revealed to me on Friday that Parker had only been working out there in Santa Monica a few weeks. "He's in good shape now," the source said. "The reports that he was 20 pounds overweight weren't true. But I'm not going to say he was in great shape, either. Guys take some time off after the season to let their bodies rest. I think he's already back to as good of shape as he was at Duke, if not better. It's not a big deal. But I'm not worried about what shape he's in in May. It's how he looks when he goes into workouts in mid-June. Parker's been working his butt off here. He's going to be in great shape when he needs to be."
Parker's skilled game shined at the workout. His jump shot was falling from everywhere on the court, he showed great quickness with the ball and he had that step-back working as well as I've ever seen it. He's incredibly skilled for a player his age and size -- all of that will translate to the NBA right away.
Parker reminded us all on Friday that he also is still in this mix to be the top pick. In fact, I thought Parker's workout was the most impressive of the three that I saw. Here's why: Parker is the most skilled of the top three players in the draft and he attacked that workout like it was a national championship game. Not only did he go harder than Wiggins or Embiid, he went harder than anyone else I've seen in a workout this year. It reminded me, a little, of the great workout Damian Lillard did in Oakland a few years ago. Aggressiveness and competitiveness show in things like this, and Parker passed those tests with flying colors.
And Parker did it without being in elite shape. About 20 or so minutes into the workout he got very winded and even, for a brief second, leaned on a garbage can close to where I was sitting. But he fought through the moment of fatigue and finished the workout strong with a series of impressive dunks alongside Jerami Grant.
A source in Parker's camp revealed to me on Friday that Parker had only been working out there in Santa Monica a few weeks. "He's in good shape now," the source said. "The reports that he was 20 pounds overweight weren't true. But I'm not going to say he was in great shape, either. Guys take some time off after the season to let their bodies rest. I think he's already back to as good of shape as he was at Duke, if not better. It's not a big deal. But I'm not worried about what shape he's in in May. It's how he looks when he goes into workouts in mid-June. Parker's been working his butt off here. He's going to be in great shape when he needs to be."
Parker's skilled game shined at the workout. His jump shot was falling from everywhere on the court, he showed great quickness with the ball and he had that step-back working as well as I've ever seen it. He's incredibly skilled for a player his age and size -- all of that will translate to the NBA right away.
MarcusGarvey
New member
Wiggins did not disappoint in the private workout I saw of him on Sunday. He's in the best shape of the three prospects right now and showed off terrific athleticism, and improved shooting and ballhandling mechanics in the 45-minute workout with Hanlen. (He's been working with Hanlen for just under a month, as well as with the folks at P3 in Santa Barbara.)
Hanlen has been working with Wiggins on correcting several weaknesses that have been holding back his game. They have tweaked Wiggins' jump shot, primarily by working with him on his follow-through, to get a more consistent jumper from both midrange and from behind the 3-point line. While Wiggins was a solid shooter this season for Kansas (34 percent from 3), everyone knows he needs to get better to open up the floor. That process already began in the second half of the season. Once Kansas began Big 12 play, Wiggins' 3-point shooting improved. While there's still more work to do, Wiggins showed off a more consistent jumper from everywhere on the floor in the workout I saw. He was particularly good from each corner, shooting 14-for-16 on 3s he took there.
Andy Lyons/Getty Images
Trainer Drew Hanlen has focused on improving Andrew Wiggins' ballhandling.
Wiggins has also been working on his ballhandling. While Wiggins has a solid handle, he plays very upright which gives him an unusually high dribble that's easy to pick off. Hanlen and the folks at P3 have been working on his hip flexibility to get him playing lower to the ground. At his size (he measured 6-foot-8.75 in shoes, with a 7-foot wingspan and an 8-foot-11 standing reach at P3), he's going to have to get lower to the floor to be able to attack the basket the way he did for KU during the second half of the season. The training seems to be taking, as Wiggins was playing much less upright in the workouts here, improving his quickness and explosiveness on both ends of the court.
Finally, Hanlen has been doing a lot of game film breakdown with Wiggins, trying to add some NBA moves to his already elite athletic talent. Hanlen has been showing Wiggins video ofMichael Jordan, Kobe Bryant, Tracy McGrady andPaul George and then taking several signature moves of each player and working with Wiggins on building those into his game. Wiggins looked especially lethal on a new step-back move he's been working on. He's so quick and so long, he gets incredible separation from his defender on the move. It will be close to impossible to guard if he can get it down.
"I normally never pull Jordan or Kobe video for players because, truthfully, they just can't do what Jordan or Kobe could do athletically," Hanlen said. "Wiggins is the first player I've trained who has that capability, athletically, to do some of the things those two have done. It's just a learning process for him now. He's gotten by on his athleticism his whole life. Now it's about really learning what makes players like that special from a skills standpoint and a mentality standpoint. He was hesitant at Kansas and as he improves his skills, I'm starting to see him develop confidence and a killer mentality that will be necessary at the next level. He's been like a sponge. The improvement over the past few weeks has been incredible. I think in a few more weeks he's going to blow people away in workouts."
By Chad Ford
Hanlen has been working with Wiggins on correcting several weaknesses that have been holding back his game. They have tweaked Wiggins' jump shot, primarily by working with him on his follow-through, to get a more consistent jumper from both midrange and from behind the 3-point line. While Wiggins was a solid shooter this season for Kansas (34 percent from 3), everyone knows he needs to get better to open up the floor. That process already began in the second half of the season. Once Kansas began Big 12 play, Wiggins' 3-point shooting improved. While there's still more work to do, Wiggins showed off a more consistent jumper from everywhere on the floor in the workout I saw. He was particularly good from each corner, shooting 14-for-16 on 3s he took there.
Andy Lyons/Getty Images
Trainer Drew Hanlen has focused on improving Andrew Wiggins' ballhandling.
Wiggins has also been working on his ballhandling. While Wiggins has a solid handle, he plays very upright which gives him an unusually high dribble that's easy to pick off. Hanlen and the folks at P3 have been working on his hip flexibility to get him playing lower to the ground. At his size (he measured 6-foot-8.75 in shoes, with a 7-foot wingspan and an 8-foot-11 standing reach at P3), he's going to have to get lower to the floor to be able to attack the basket the way he did for KU during the second half of the season. The training seems to be taking, as Wiggins was playing much less upright in the workouts here, improving his quickness and explosiveness on both ends of the court.
Finally, Hanlen has been doing a lot of game film breakdown with Wiggins, trying to add some NBA moves to his already elite athletic talent. Hanlen has been showing Wiggins video ofMichael Jordan, Kobe Bryant, Tracy McGrady andPaul George and then taking several signature moves of each player and working with Wiggins on building those into his game. Wiggins looked especially lethal on a new step-back move he's been working on. He's so quick and so long, he gets incredible separation from his defender on the move. It will be close to impossible to guard if he can get it down.
"I normally never pull Jordan or Kobe video for players because, truthfully, they just can't do what Jordan or Kobe could do athletically," Hanlen said. "Wiggins is the first player I've trained who has that capability, athletically, to do some of the things those two have done. It's just a learning process for him now. He's gotten by on his athleticism his whole life. Now it's about really learning what makes players like that special from a skills standpoint and a mentality standpoint. He was hesitant at Kansas and as he improves his skills, I'm starting to see him develop confidence and a killer mentality that will be necessary at the next level. He's been like a sponge. The improvement over the past few weeks has been incredible. I think in a few more weeks he's going to blow people away in workouts."
By Chad Ford
Cant remember the last time i been so conflicted with not just 2 but 3 picks
The fear with Embid is his back and knees
The fear with Parker is his potential to be a chubster
The fear with Wiggins is him just bein a Nick Young type athlete and his lack of enthusiasm
Still dnt know who i'd pick
The fear with Embid is his back and knees
The fear with Parker is his potential to be a chubster
The fear with Wiggins is him just bein a Nick Young type athlete and his lack of enthusiasm
Still dnt know who i'd pick
TheBossman
New member
S2J;7076477 said:Cant remember the last time i been so conflicted with not just 2 but 3 picks
The fear with Embid is his back and knees
The fear with Parker is his potential to be a chubster
The fear with Wiggins is him just bein a Nick Young type athlete and his lack of enthusiasm
Still dnt know who i'd pick
co sign, embid is the worst of the three picks for my sixers simply because of noel, but the potential to be the next best center in the game is intriguing. i could be happy with any of the three.
MarcusGarvey
New member
Embiid may have the ultimate say
No one was a bigger attraction than Embiid this weekend. Teams haven't seen him play since he injured his back late in his freshman season. Embiid's decision to skip the combine caused a fair amount of consternation among NBA teams. Without seeing him in the athletic testing, and without a full physical from NBA doctors, the paranoia over Embiid's health reached a fever pitch in Chicago last weekend.
Embiid went a long way toward easing those doubts and reasserting himself as a legit contender, maybe even the favorite, to be the top pick in the draft.
Embiid went through a roughly 30-minute workout alongside former NBA center Will Perdue. While it was clear that Embiid was still working himself into shape after nearly eight weeks of rest for his back (he got very winded about 15 minutes into the workout and started to struggle to finish his dunks and shots), he still looked quick and made the 10-foot basket look like a Nerf hoop.
He was dunking everything, showing off his quickness in the paint and his impressive shooting touch with a series of midrange shots and step-backs. While NBA teams won't draft him to shoot jumpers, there's very little question that he has NBA shooting range.
Embiid's measurements, taken by his agency, the Wasserman Group, helped, as well. Embiid measured 7-foot-1 in shoes, with a 7-foot-5.75 wingspan and a crazy 9-foot-5.5 standing reach. That makes him the biggest player in the draft, and furthers the appeal for teams looking for a legit center.
Bo Rader/Wichita Eagle/MCT/Getty Images
In Joel Embiid's case, weight gain has been seen as a positive by teams.
Embiid told me that he gained roughly 20 pounds the past two months, though he had lost five in the past three weeks since he began working out again. In his case, that's a good thing. Teams were worried that Embiid, at 250, was a little too light to play the post. The extra 15 pounds seems to have mostly gone to his butt and thighs, exactly were teams want it to go to help him create space and hold his position in the post.
Embiid also told me that his back was "100 percent" and that he was feeling no effects from his injury in March. That was confirmed by several sources who have been working with him in the gym the past few weeks.
"If anything, I think they were overcautious with him," one source said. "He could've played in the next round of the NCAA tournament had Kansas advanced. They were just making sure that the issue would completely go away. He's fine."
If that's true, then I think it will be very hard for the Cavs to pass on him. Players like Embiid don't come along very often and if he continues to impress, he has the chance to be the best center in the NBA someday. For a team that has a need at the 5 (Anderson Varejao is 32 and in the last year of his contract), he gives them both low-post offense and the rim protection that the Cavs have desperately lacked in the past.
However, there are still two major question marks that need to be answered.
First, will Embiid's agent, Arn Tellem, send him to Cleveland for a workout and allow the Cavs' doctors to give his back a full examination? The Cavs aren't going to just take Embiid's word on this. Their doctors will have to be comfortable with him. As of this weekend, Tellem was still in discussions with the Cavs on sending Embiid to Cleveland. Both sides expect to work out something that allows the Cavs to get to see Embiid.
Second, if Embiid is allowed to visit Cleveland and if the Cavs' doctors give him a clean bill of health, will new GM David Griffin and owner Dan Gilbert take him No. 1? A number of sources close to the Cavs confirm that they really like Embiid and in a vacuum, would likely take him No. 1. But the Cavs aren't in a vacuum. Gilbert has been adamant that he's tired of missing the playoffs and expects the team to make a playoff run this season. While Embiid may have the highest upside of any player in the draft, he also is the least NBA-ready of the three top prospects. Can Griffin afford to take, and will Gilbert sign off on taking, a player who is unlikely to make a major impact next season? Especially when the other two players on the board also have elite talent, and could make a more immediate impact?
No one was a bigger attraction than Embiid this weekend. Teams haven't seen him play since he injured his back late in his freshman season. Embiid's decision to skip the combine caused a fair amount of consternation among NBA teams. Without seeing him in the athletic testing, and without a full physical from NBA doctors, the paranoia over Embiid's health reached a fever pitch in Chicago last weekend.
Embiid went a long way toward easing those doubts and reasserting himself as a legit contender, maybe even the favorite, to be the top pick in the draft.
Embiid went through a roughly 30-minute workout alongside former NBA center Will Perdue. While it was clear that Embiid was still working himself into shape after nearly eight weeks of rest for his back (he got very winded about 15 minutes into the workout and started to struggle to finish his dunks and shots), he still looked quick and made the 10-foot basket look like a Nerf hoop.
He was dunking everything, showing off his quickness in the paint and his impressive shooting touch with a series of midrange shots and step-backs. While NBA teams won't draft him to shoot jumpers, there's very little question that he has NBA shooting range.
Embiid's measurements, taken by his agency, the Wasserman Group, helped, as well. Embiid measured 7-foot-1 in shoes, with a 7-foot-5.75 wingspan and a crazy 9-foot-5.5 standing reach. That makes him the biggest player in the draft, and furthers the appeal for teams looking for a legit center.
Bo Rader/Wichita Eagle/MCT/Getty Images
In Joel Embiid's case, weight gain has been seen as a positive by teams.
Embiid told me that he gained roughly 20 pounds the past two months, though he had lost five in the past three weeks since he began working out again. In his case, that's a good thing. Teams were worried that Embiid, at 250, was a little too light to play the post. The extra 15 pounds seems to have mostly gone to his butt and thighs, exactly were teams want it to go to help him create space and hold his position in the post.
Embiid also told me that his back was "100 percent" and that he was feeling no effects from his injury in March. That was confirmed by several sources who have been working with him in the gym the past few weeks.
"If anything, I think they were overcautious with him," one source said. "He could've played in the next round of the NCAA tournament had Kansas advanced. They were just making sure that the issue would completely go away. He's fine."
If that's true, then I think it will be very hard for the Cavs to pass on him. Players like Embiid don't come along very often and if he continues to impress, he has the chance to be the best center in the NBA someday. For a team that has a need at the 5 (Anderson Varejao is 32 and in the last year of his contract), he gives them both low-post offense and the rim protection that the Cavs have desperately lacked in the past.
However, there are still two major question marks that need to be answered.
First, will Embiid's agent, Arn Tellem, send him to Cleveland for a workout and allow the Cavs' doctors to give his back a full examination? The Cavs aren't going to just take Embiid's word on this. Their doctors will have to be comfortable with him. As of this weekend, Tellem was still in discussions with the Cavs on sending Embiid to Cleveland. Both sides expect to work out something that allows the Cavs to get to see Embiid.
Second, if Embiid is allowed to visit Cleveland and if the Cavs' doctors give him a clean bill of health, will new GM David Griffin and owner Dan Gilbert take him No. 1? A number of sources close to the Cavs confirm that they really like Embiid and in a vacuum, would likely take him No. 1. But the Cavs aren't in a vacuum. Gilbert has been adamant that he's tired of missing the playoffs and expects the team to make a playoff run this season. While Embiid may have the highest upside of any player in the draft, he also is the least NBA-ready of the three top prospects. Can Griffin afford to take, and will Gilbert sign off on taking, a player who is unlikely to make a major impact next season? Especially when the other two players on the board also have elite talent, and could make a more immediate impact?
TheBossman;7076496 said:S2J;7076477 said:Cant remember the last time i been so conflicted with not just 2 but 3 picks
The fear with Embid is his back and knees
The fear with Parker is his potential to be a chubster
The fear with Wiggins is him just bein a Nick Young type athlete and his lack of enthusiasm
Still dnt know who i'd pick
co sign, embid is the worst of the three picks for my sixers simply because of noel, but the potential to be the next best center in the game is intriguing. i could be happy with any of the three.
Honestly yall are in the best position. You essentially have a #1 pick in the draft, without any of the blowback or second guessing if he doesnt pan out
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