OBJECTIVELY is Eminem Top 10 DOA?

[saracenwire]

No. I used to love Eminem, and i still like his first three albums but when you really break down his career, he was only great for 5 years and has been largely terrible for going on 15. He's one the most technically skilled rappers to ever pick up a mic but he never made a true classic and all the other guys in the discussion all have at least one save for Andre who has multiple as a part of a group. Kendricks already made two albums significantly better than any Eminem album and you can argue for Damn as well and he's now been a great rapper for longer than Eminem as well

Nas

Biggie

Jay-z

Rakim

Scarface

2pac

Kanye

Ice Cube

Krs-1

LL Cool J

Kendrick

That's 11 guys who Eminem has no argument over.

he did say skill and flow, so if you taken away from em not having a classic album how you got ye up there...he lacks skill n flow compared to other elite top guys. (kanye)

His first two albums were (EMs) in every stretch of the word classics.

and damn @niggas still doing EM threads.

Kanye not only has the best catalog in Hip hop history, he has one of the best in all of music period. He's the most influential music artist of the last 15 years.

 

[ghost!]

No. I used to love Eminem, and i still like his first three albums but when you really break down his career, he was only great for 5 years and has been largely terrible for going on 15. He's one the most technically skilled rappers to ever pick up a mic but he never made a true classic and all the other guys in the discussion all have at least one save for Andre who has multiple as a part of a group. Kendricks already made two albums significantly better than any Eminem album and you can argue for Damn as well and he's now been a great rapper for longer than Eminem as well

Nas

Biggie

Jay-z

Rakim

Scarface

2pac

Kanye

Ice Cube

Krs-1

LL Cool J

Kendrick

That's 11 guys who Eminem has no argument over.

he did say skill and flow, so if you taken away from em not having a classic album how you got ye up there...he lacks skill n flow compared to other elite top guys. (kanye)

His first two albums were (EMs) in every stretch of the word classics.

and damn @niggas still doing EM threads.

Kanye not only has the best catalog in Hip hop history, he has one of the best in all of music period. He's the most influential music artist of the last 15 years.

still completely missed the skill and flow part....so he shouldn't be on that list.

 

[bck145]

Bck ur a nobody. Talkin shit bout other people parents on Internet. You know you would get killed for that shit in real life.

Too bad you to scared to pull a trigger

I'm glad I'm a nobody on a fucking internet forum...log off and get a life you Swedish fag

 

[Beta]

Goddamn this page hilarious for the wrong reasons

Greg should let the bills pile up for this forum

 

[CeLLaR-DooR]

Has no classics and has been garbage for 10 years.

By which objective standards is Em top 10?

Technically, maybe. What else?

 

[CeLLaR-DooR]

Top 10 impact.

Top 10 storyteller.

Top 10 flow.

Top 10 Technically....

Low teens, early 20s discography.

He had 3 good albums to start with. A few bad ones. I thought relapse could have been really dope, but he messed it up with his voice inflections or whatever he was trying to do.

First white boy to break through commercially, had the greatest year an artist could possibly have in 2002. He has a lot of dope, dope verses that don't involve bullshit like his mom, or fantasizing as being a serial killer, has many unforgivable songs and verses(I'm looking at you "Fack").

All that aside, If you put Em in a booth with a beat, and tell him to just go in... He's in the conversation. Period.

Disagree with the bolded. Particularly the last bit. Em been ruinin' songs recently

 

[Fosheezy]

Objectively, but then proceeds with subjective question.

 

[ChiefSosa]

Why do I.C posters constantly discuss Em when this is majority of his fan base and audience

Why constantly discuss a Pop artist who's core fan base is females, teenage girls and Pop music fans even if it is to hate?
https://twitter.com/TeAmo_Dri/status/838668736425000960
https://twitter.com/hoyeengurl/status/627041232074735616
https://twitter.com/julhorowitz/status/565362523109859329
https://twitter.com/maddieshlaimon/status/531535971414999041
https://twitter.com/HailTaJ/status/474334240704700418
https://twitter.com/This_is_Noli/status/457437572290347008
https://twitter.com/nydollaasign/status/442137455022862336
https://twitter.com/mcollins16_/status/441759205007958017
https://twitter.com/kaiivey_/status/424024364477349888
https://twitter.com/nataliasvetlana/status/418598260870500352
https://twitter.com/gabby1flores/status/400422315395018752
https://twitter.com/Toni_Franche/status/368177624725483520

These fans are never gonna change their mind the 300 million fans around the world he has are never gonna change their mind because a Mockingbird and similar type songs and albums such as TES and Recovery are the type of music these fans like. So what is the purpose of these threads?

 

ILLBOT detected banned alias
Reason: 3Hunna

Human beings, viewed as behaving systems, are quite simple.
ChiefSosa

 

[Built 4 cuban linx]

She'll be back

 

[Soloman_The_Wise]

Why do I.C posters constantly discuss Em when this is majority of his fan base and audience

Why constantly discuss a Pop artist who's core fan base is females, teenage girls and Pop music fans even if it is to hate?
https://twitter.com/TeAmo_Dri/status/838668736425000960
https://twitter.com/hoyeengurl/status/627041232074735616
https://twitter.com/julhorowitz/status/565362523109859329
https://twitter.com/maddieshlaimon/status/531535971414999041
https://twitter.com/HailTaJ/status/474334240704700418
https://twitter.com/This_is_Noli/status/457437572290347008
https://twitter.com/nydollaasign/status/442137455022862336
https://twitter.com/mcollins16_/status/441759205007958017
https://twitter.com/kaiivey_/status/424024364477349888
https://twitter.com/nataliasvetlana/status/418598260870500352
https://twitter.com/gabby1flores/status/400422315395018752
https://twitter.com/Toni_Franche/status/368177624725483520

These fans are never gonna change their mind the 300 million fans around the world he has are never gonna change their mind because a Mockingbird and similar type songs and albums such as TES and Recovery are the type of music these fans like. So what is the purpose of these threads?

Some Deeper songs they should be exposed to are...




or Lucky me which has been wiped from Youtube...

just a few they should check before believing hthe hype if they are seeking deep...

 

[Stew]

ILLBOT detected banned alias

Reason: 3Hunna

Human beings, viewed as behaving systems, are quite simple.

ChiefSosa

Thats the first time Illbot has clapped her ass. Thats my nigga!

 

[Karl.]

People get too hung up on lists. It's all preference.

 

[za'kiss]

I'm still waiting for someone to explain how Eminem is one of the best "technical" rappers.

Why? Because he can cram a bunch of multisyllable rhymes in a bar? Half the people on this forum can write a verse like that. Just take your time and try to use big words and make them rhyme. That's not impressive.

The question is: can you rhyme words that actually say something clever, deep, insightful, interesting, metaphorical, relevant, powerful, etc? Can you spit the verse on a beat in time by staying in the pocket and not exhausting the listener? Can you spit the verse with a flow that isn't grating on the ears? Can use a multisyllable rhyme scheme and somehow, almost incredibly, manage to weave together a compelling story out of it? If so, then that's truly impressive, and one of the most complicated, difficult tasks you can achieve as an MC.

That's what I call technical. What I don't call technical is the ability to rhyme swimming pool and winning fool in a verse, or some other pointless random string a words that Eminem mashes together. That shit is stupid and not hard. It's hard to rhyme meaningful words in complex ways.

 

[za'kiss]

Objectively from a technical standpoint i dont see how he can be argued out of a top 10

Because there are 10 other MC's more technical. What does that even mean though? "Technical"?

Applies to the actual measurable quality of rap.

Not things like storytelling, punchlines, delivery etc.

Big pun and chino xl are also great technical rappers.

See, this is exactly my point.

This shows how much Em fans have to twist and contort to make the case that Eminem is a great rapper. They say he's "technical", but not the way we ordinarily think of technical, but define technical as excluding every known standard of quality MCing - storytelling, punchline, delivery, metahpor, flow - to include, what, exactly? Rhyming a bunch of random words together? Shit is ridiculous.

No, a great "technical" MC is precisely one with great punchlines (BARS), delivery, storytelling, and flow. If Em's got none of these things, then the only thing to conclude here is that he's just wack.

 

[Stew]

I'm dropping a novel here because of this "biased" nonsense. You've been warned.

Eminem doesn't crack my top 100. I don't rank rappers beyond that, and I don't care about commercial success. So he doesn't get in my top anything. Am I biased? I don't think so. I think he's wack. Full stop.

Yes, like any sane listener I thought Marshall Mathers was a good album at the time, and I liked quite a few songs off The Slim Shady LP. He had a lot of credibility back in the early 00s. I admit that. I thought he had a pretty good flow. He knew how to ride the beat and I thought his horrocore stuff was funny for a while.

But he's been shitty way longer than he's been a good rapper. The Eminem Show doesn't age well. His flow isn't completely shot on that album, but the songs aren't very good. Didn't care much for the production and the content doesn't interest me. By the time of Encore, he'd already lost me completely content wise and flow had started its irrevocable decline.

That was in 2004. So his last good album was in 2000, his last listenable album was in 2002. So he's been garbage for 15+ years. Since then, he lost his flow completely from 2004-2010, when he started rapping in those weird accents and out of the pocket, and was talking about the most irrelevant, worthless shit imaginable. He finally kicked the accents and improved his voice slightly, but the content is still gone.

Since around 2010-2011, you can tell he's become really insecure about how he's perceived by the rap community, fearing he's lost his respect from when he fell off with those accents, and he's even referenced this fact in several songs. So he tried to over-correct for it by taking on this new lyrical miracle rappity rap style of over the top, exhausting multisyllabic rhyming about random shit that he continues to sprinkle with dashes of domestic violence. These days he's all about cramming as many words into a bar as possible and barely staying on beat. This is why anytime you see him in a cypher anymore he arrogantly tells DJs to turn off the beat, as if he's about shock the world with his amazing lyricism, but it comes across as very forced and awkward. He's clearly desperate for credibility, but he's got absolutely nothing to say and is just super exhausting.

Back in his rich period ('99-'00), he would take his time with the beat. He'd have a few internal rhymes, but was confident enough in what he was saying he could slow down, carefully select his words by limiting his vocabulary, and would focus mostly on rhyming on the 2nd and 4th beat like a traditional 90s MC. He had nice breath control and could keep time, and had this edgy punk rock "Fuck you" attitude that was refreshing at the time. But again, that was '99-'00, and as I said, means he's been garbage for over 15 years. Think about that. 15+ years of unlistenable, trash music. That's unprecedented. I can't in good conscience put a rapper with that track record in my top anything.

I acknowledge that the first two albums are good, so I don't think I'm being "biased" by saying a rapper who has been pumping out irrelevant, shitty music for 15+ years is wack.

I'm still waiting for someone to explain how Eminem is one of the best "technical" rappers.

Why? Because he can cram a bunch of multisyllable rhymes in a bar? Half the people on this forum can write a verse like that. Just take your time and try to use big words and make them rhyme. That's not impressive.

The question is: can you rhyme words that actually say something clever, deep, insightful, interesting, metaphorical, relevant, powerful, etc? Can you spit the verse on a beat in time by staying in the pocket and not exhausting the listener? Can you spit the verse with a flow that isn't grating on the ears? Can use a multisyllable rhyme scheme and somehow, almost incredibly, manage to weave together a compelling story out of it? If so, then that's truly impressive, and one of the most complicated, difficult tasks you can achieve as an MC.

That's what I call technical. What I don't call technical is the ability to rhyme swimming pool and winning fool in a verse, or some other pointless random string a words that Eminem mashes together. That shit is stupid and not hard. It's hard to rhyme meaningful words in complex ways.

Objectively from a technical standpoint i dont see how he can be argued out of a top 10

Because there are 10 other MC's more technical. What does that even mean though? "Technical"?

Applies to the actual measurable quality of rap.

Not things like storytelling, punchlines, delivery etc.

Big pun and chino xl are also great technical rappers.

See, this is exactly my point.

This shows how much Em fans have to twist and contort to make the case that Eminem is a great rapper. They say he's "technical", but not the way we ordinarily think of technical, but define technical as excluding every known standard of quality MCing - storytelling, punchline, delivery, metahpor, flow - to include, what, exactly? Rhyming a bunch of random words together? Shit is ridiculous.

No, a great "technical" MC is precisely one with great punchlines (BARS), delivery, storytelling, and flow. If Em's got none of these things, then the only thing to conclude here is that he's just wack.

That's a massive amount of words for somebody you don't even have in your top 100! Holy shit :joy:

 

[za'kiss]

That's a massive amount of words for somebody you don't even have in your top 100! Holy shit :joy:

I'm a fan of hip-hop and Eminem has managed to have a huge impact on the culture. His place in it is worth addressing. I usually avoid contributing a lot to this subject, but it's something that needs to be addressed, especially since true heads are accused of "bias" if they don't like him. Em fans try to hijack what counts as a "great MC" by elevating this dude. It's weak.

 

[bck145]

I'm still waiting for someone to explain how Eminem is one of the best "technical" rappers.

Why? Because he can cram a bunch of multisyllable rhymes in a bar? Half the people on this forum can write a verse like that. Just take your time and try to use big words and make them rhyme. That's not impressive.

The question is: can you rhyme words that actually say something clever, deep, insightful, interesting, metaphorical, relevant, powerful, etc? Can you spit the verse on a beat in time by staying in the pocket and not exhausting the listener? Can you spit the verse with a flow that isn't grating on the ears? Can use a multisyllable rhyme scheme and somehow, almost incredibly, manage to weave together a compelling story out of it? If so, then that's truly impressive, and one of the most complicated, difficult tasks you can achieve as an MC.

That's what I call technical. What I don't call technical is the ability to rhyme swimming pool and winning fool in a verse, or some other pointless random string a words that Eminem mashes together. That shit is stupid and not hard. It's hard to rhyme meaningful words in complex ways.

That defines 90% of the IC's favorite rappers

 

[Stew]

That's a massive amount of words for somebody you don't even have in your top 100! Holy shit :joy:

I'm a fan of hip-hop and Eminem has managed to have a huge impact on the culture. His place in it is worth addressing. I usually avoid contributing a lot to this subject, but it's something that needs to be addressed, especially since true heads are accused of "bias" if they don't like him. Em fans try to hijack what counts as a "great MC" by elevating this dude. It's weak.

Word, so go ahead and drop them 100 rappers that are better so we can get a good laugh in.

 

[trilladelic]

I'm not about to play with y'all niqqaz..