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Knives Amilli
New member
2 things:
The explosion of women in the workplace meant that the burden of being a heavy worker and eventually providing for a stay at home mom was lessened. Couple that with the increased role the govt. took in federal assistance for single mothers (WIC was created in 1972 among other things), men are not the necessity we used to be in the family equation.
Secondly, the job market (even despite the recession) is far more complex and flexible than in the past. With a greater demand on a post secondary education, men now have the option of spending MOST of their twenties in pursuit of a degrees. Whereas in the past, it was more cost efficient to work a blue collar job directly after HS (and typically get married soon after). And thats not counting other external factors like joining the military for several years or things of that nature. So in that context, if one is completing college at 25, i imagine it'd be several more years before they'd marry and sire kids. And once again, there's less NEED to do both nowadays.
The explosion of women in the workplace meant that the burden of being a heavy worker and eventually providing for a stay at home mom was lessened. Couple that with the increased role the govt. took in federal assistance for single mothers (WIC was created in 1972 among other things), men are not the necessity we used to be in the family equation.
Secondly, the job market (even despite the recession) is far more complex and flexible than in the past. With a greater demand on a post secondary education, men now have the option of spending MOST of their twenties in pursuit of a degrees. Whereas in the past, it was more cost efficient to work a blue collar job directly after HS (and typically get married soon after). And thats not counting other external factors like joining the military for several years or things of that nature. So in that context, if one is completing college at 25, i imagine it'd be several more years before they'd marry and sire kids. And once again, there's less NEED to do both nowadays.
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Mindstarter
New member
king hassan;3469621 said:My homegirl has 3 boys, 2 out of high school and one a junior. She can't even get these niggas to clean up the house yet she washes they clothes, cooks for them. One time she bought the youngest some Nike boots and they were last years model so he wanted her to go back to the store and get the ones he wanted, and it was 15 degrees outside. FOH. Women make bitch ass niggas, coddling they sons
I agree. Once your a man thou, you cant blame that shit on your momma anymore. Either be content in your ways, quit bitching about women, quit trying to play house or grow the fuck up.
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Mindstarter
New member
Knives Amilli;3469644 said:2 things:
The explosion of women in the workplace meant that the burden of being a heavy worker and eventually providing for a stay at home mom was lessened. Couple that with the increased role the govt. took in federal assistance for single mothers (WIC was created in 1972 among other things), men are not the necessity we used to be in the family equation.
Secondly, the job market (even despite the recession) is far more complex and flexible than in the past. With a greater demand on a post secondary education, men now have the option of spending MOST of their twenties in pursuit of a degrees. Whereas in the past, it was more cost efficient to work a blue collar job directly after HS (and typically get married soon after). And thats not counting other external factors like joining the military for several years or things of that nature. So in that context, if one is completing college at 25, i imagine it'd be several more years before they'd marry and sire kids. And once again, there's less NEED to do both nowadays.
I think thats unture and thats why so many men are confused nowadays. Just because a women makes money to contribute to the household doesnt mean that you as a man cant do the same. Too many men wants to control things and be the breadwinner and if their failing at that then they feel their failing at life and want to jump ship. To men that makes these types of men punk bitches.
The roles have changed for women, where we have to work but we still have to make time to take care of the household and raise the chidlren. I dont understand why men cant do the same, why cant you guys work and help take care of the household and help raise the children.
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king hassan
New member
That's the problem, non of them have fathers around. Even the girl I'm with now coddles her boy and he has a father in his life. But his dad plays video games all day, drives a Charger with rims and tv's and all he listens to is rap music. And dude like 33 y/o. So the little cat has no example and his dad still bad mouths his moms to shorty. As much as my baby mama hates me she never talks shit about me to our daughter. I already told ole girl I'm not gonna be dealing with that shit if we decide to marry and get a house. I'll put her son out!blackrain;3469633 said:You gotta be kidding me? I wish I would have said some shit like that to my father...
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king hassan
New member
Mindstarter;3469654 said:I agree. Once your a man thou, you cant blame that shit on your momma anymore. Either be content in your ways, quit bitching about women, quit trying to play house or grow the fuck up.
Exactly. And I came from a traditional household. My moms graduated college pops did'nt but she never tried to override him either. She played her role and he played his. And he taught us boys how to do the same. He taught us if something happened to moms what we needed to do to make sure she was alright. And my mother did'nt coddle us either, we had to man up early. Nowadays these cats rely on other poeple or things to do shit they should be handeling themselves
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Coby Vibes
New member
Mindstarter;3469654 said:I agree. Once your a man thou, you cant blame that shit on your momma anymore. Either be content in your ways, quit bitching about women, quit trying to play house or grow the fuck up.
precisely. it's about accountability. at some point you have to man -up and decide what kind of man you want to be. the excerpt posits that men dont want to be men. They are OUTRIGHT REFUSING to be men and extending their boyhood. The blame game must stop and responsibility must be taken.
Mindstarter;3469683 said:I think thats unture and thats why so many men are confused nowadays. Just because a women makes money to contribute to the household doesnt mean that you as a man cant do the same. Too many men wants to control things and be the breadwinner and if their failing at that then they feel their failing at life and want to jump ship. To men that makes these types of men punk bitches.
The roles have changed for women, where we have to work but we still have to make time to take care of the household and raise the chidlren. I dont understand why men cant do the same, why cant you guys work and help take care of the household and help raise the children.
It seems like because of the strides of women... men have become confused about their place in the world and unable to cope so they are retrogressing to boyhood. Given the timeline of the article where he cites it started in the 50's.. It seems like the Women's Lib movement of the 60's miay have also been born out of necessity because men were being men anymore
Knives Amilli;3469644 said:2 things:
The explosion of women in the workplace meant that the burden of being a heavy worker and eventually providing for a stay at home mom was lessened. Couple that with the increased role the govt. took in federal assistance for single mothers (WIC was created in 1972 among other things), men are not the necessity we used to be in the family equation.
Secondly, the job market (even despite the recession) is far more complex and flexible than in the past. With a greater demand on a post secondary education, men now have the option of spending MOST of their twenties in pursuit of a degrees. Whereas in the past, it was more cost efficient to work a blue collar job directly after HS (and typically get married soon after). And thats not counting other external factors like joining the military for several years or things of that nature. So in that context, if one is completing college at 25, i imagine it'd be several more years before they'd marry and sire kids. And once again, there's less NEED to do both nowadays.
but as the author states the beginning of boy-men started in the 50's. that suggests to me that those programs and women's roles shifted outta necessity
gorilla;3469410 said:I agree with some points on both sides of the article.
There are a lot of what Cross calls boy-men, I call em bitch niggas. There's been a systematic breaking down of the american male for quite some time, especially the black male. Think about tv shows we all watched growing up. It went from having working, responsible fathers like Cliff Huxtable to Al Bundy (as hilarious as he was) and Homer Simpson. You couple that with the mass amounts of fatherless homes and here we are today.
On the other hand though, some of it has to do with women. Why? Because you have too many women who are drawn to these "bitch niggas" and , and yes that also goes back to the problems caused by so many fatherless homes. Too many girls grow up to be women who don't know how to pick a decent man, then the fatherless home cycles repeats.
Now you also can't ignore the fact that some dudes don't want to get married cuz the shit is plain scary. After seeing their fathers, brothers, uncles, homies etc have their lives utterly destroyed by a baby momma or ex wife, a lotta dudes are doing everything they can to steer clear of that. Can't blame em to a degree.
All in all, yes men need to be men and stop being bitch niggas. Real men are responsible, hard working, stand up dudes that love their families. Nothing wrong with playing video games or keeping some of the same hobbies as you did when you were younger, it's all about priorities.
this article isnt even about black men... but white men. and states exactly such. the references are white white references. it is written by a white man. It just goes to show you that there is something going on culturally with men in America
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king hassan
New member
Men to busy trying to be pretty nowadays, what the fuck.
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king hassan;3469686 said:That's the problem, non of them have fathers around. Even the girl I'm with now coddles her boy and he has a father in his life. But his dad plays video games all day, drives a Charger with rims and tv's and all he listens to is rap music. And dude like 33 y/o. So the little cat has no example and his dad still bad mouths his moms to shorty. As much as my baby mama hates me she never talks shit about me to our daughter. I already told ole girl I'm not gonna be dealing with that shit if we decide to marry and get a house. I'll put her son out!
Somebody needs to tell him that everybody has to grow up sometime...part of the problem to is that the common markers for "maturity/immaturity" in society now are distorted as hell...I mean just look at the article...I agree with it's premise, but to say a man who plays video games is immature? Not ready for manhood? The things people associate with maturity nowadays is just as much of the problem of people not being as mature as they need to be...the things people have to do to be considered mature are at such a lower standard now...
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king hassan
New member
I really can't tell him shit because that's her baby daddy and I don't deal with him. He takes care of his son but the examples he giving him is tripped out. Video games don't mean shit, I just don't play them because I have no interest in them. But yeah, some dudes have not grown up themselves to teach these boys how to be. Me and a cat in the laundry had this discussion, and he was complaining about the youth, but he was locked up 15 years so he was not out here to give them direction. We either locked up or doing fuck shit, no examples being passed downblackrain;3469838 said:Somebody needs to tell him that everybody has to grow up sometime...part of the problem to is that the common markers for "maturity/immaturity" in society now are distorted as hell...I mean just look at the article...I agree with it's premise, but to say a man who plays video games is immature? Not ready for manhood? The things people associate with maturity nowadays is just as much of the problem of people not being as mature as they need to be...the things people have to do to be considered mature are at such a lower standard now...
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king hassan;3469863 said:I really can't tell him shit because that's her baby daddy and I don't deal with him. He takes care of his son but the examples he giving him is tripped out. Video games don't mean shit, I just don't play them because I have no interest in them. But yeah, some dudes have not grown up themselves to teach these boys how to be. Me and a cat in the laundry had this discussion, and he was complaining about the youth, but he was locked up 15 years so he was not out here to give them direction. We either locked up or doing fuck shit, no examples being passed down
The video games thing is just an example, I've read the article Coby posted in this thread before...but I just think that the standard for being considered mature has just gotten lower and lower over the years...and people get told "You're a man" before they have even finished being a child so they never grow past that point...
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king hassan
New member
Exactly...........shit's fucked up on both sides of the coin, men and womenblackrain;3469890 said:The video games thing is just an example, I've read the article Coby posted in this thread before...but I just think that the standard for being considered mature has just gotten lower and lower over the years...and people get told "You're a man" before they have even finished being a child so they never grow past that point...
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So this was written by a woman...Figures.
There is no such "standard" of what defines a man. He is responsible for that. Same can be said for women. Maturity or lack therof have been evident in adults since the beginning of time. If a man plays video games and chooses not to have kids or be married, that does not make him less of a man. People are losing sight of the fact that today's man between the ages of 18-35, grew up in a generation where we saw a boom in home entertainment and constant progression in such industry. No different from men between the ages of 35-45 who still read comic books because of the rise of that industry during their youth. There has never been an age limit set on these things to when you shouldn't enjoy them anymore. This is coming from a man who is married to a woman who plays video games as much as me, as well as maintain a well paying job like I do, and manage daily financial and household responsibilities on a regular basis. A man knows what he wants and don't want, and is able to determine between the two. So if he doesn't want to be married, and want to spend his money on video games and other things he enjoys, where do that make him a "boy" by her standards?
I am getting tired of bitter women who are jaded from their personal dating experiences to blanket all men with the same disorder the men they've encountered may have suffered from. For once, can we have a female come out with a study of the same nature but instead present the woman's role in all of this. Because this just sounds like another educated victim.
There is no such "standard" of what defines a man. He is responsible for that. Same can be said for women. Maturity or lack therof have been evident in adults since the beginning of time. If a man plays video games and chooses not to have kids or be married, that does not make him less of a man. People are losing sight of the fact that today's man between the ages of 18-35, grew up in a generation where we saw a boom in home entertainment and constant progression in such industry. No different from men between the ages of 35-45 who still read comic books because of the rise of that industry during their youth. There has never been an age limit set on these things to when you shouldn't enjoy them anymore. This is coming from a man who is married to a woman who plays video games as much as me, as well as maintain a well paying job like I do, and manage daily financial and household responsibilities on a regular basis. A man knows what he wants and don't want, and is able to determine between the two. So if he doesn't want to be married, and want to spend his money on video games and other things he enjoys, where do that make him a "boy" by her standards?
I am getting tired of bitter women who are jaded from their personal dating experiences to blanket all men with the same disorder the men they've encountered may have suffered from. For once, can we have a female come out with a study of the same nature but instead present the woman's role in all of this. Because this just sounds like another educated victim.
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Coby Vibes
New member
it was written by a man. do you dudes read and respond based on reason or just pure emotions. the only bitter and jaded people in this thread are the men
smh
smh
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Coby Vibes;3470289 said:it was written by a man. do you dudes read and respond based on reason or just pure emotions. the only bitter and jaded people in this thread are the men
smh
Certain Thread Posts are like a Bat Signal for you huh??
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Coby Vibes
New member
kevmic;3470309 said:Certain Thread Posts are like a Bat Signal for you huh??
some of you are just better off just saying fuck off like haute said.
really... smh. it's like the video games shit hit a nerve with some of you. the video game thing is such a tiny example in the entire context of the excerpt. and most of you can't get past that tiny example.
unreal
this is a book for crying out loud. click the link and read. there are similar books written on the same phenomenon.
shit is real whether you guys want to admit it or not
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fullfledged
New member
Being a man is simple not in the western world tho
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Coby Vibes;3470358 said:some of you are just better off just saying fuck off like haute said.
really... smh. it's like the video games shit hit a nerve with some of you. the video game thing is such a tiny example in the entire context of the excerpt. and most of you can't get past that tiny example.
unreal
this is a book for crying out loud. click the link and read. there are similar books written on the same phenomenon.
shit is real whether you guys want to admit it or not
but since it was bolded and pointed out by you, it became a main point of some people's response because it's such an arbitrary thing to base a person's maturity level on..it actually hurts the argument more than it helps it...blame yourself for that...
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kevmic;3470131 said:So this was written by a woman...Figures.
.
The material found in these books thus goes against politically correct flags. For some, this may be a welcome relief. These accessible books are highly recommended for all libraries because they provoke discussion and keep the conversation on gender alive.—Tim Delaney, SUNY at Oswego
haute;3468349 said:These arguments don't make any sense
Y'all would've been better off just saying
Fuck you coby
And leaving
no seriously
if you guys aren't even going to read the article stop making arguments
because you're proving her point on the low
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