Marcus Garvey and God

[Bodhi]

Doesn't matter. It's not relevant since I never said he didn't believe in a God. In fact, my opening post says that he does believe in a God. This thread is a debate on the specifics of his beliefs in God. What part of that don't you get?

 

[bambu]

I don't get why a heathen would even be concerned.......

 

[Bodhi]

I'm not surprised. You don't seem to "get" much of anything.

 

[bambu]

I welcome you as a recently converted heathen.......

 

[zombie]

I can't see that. I'll have to get out my kindle. I'm going to the cafe first though to see what they got to eat.

Give me a synopsis.

In this video of marcus very famous speech he basically states his belief in god the son, god the father and god the holy ghost. the god of ethiopia, there is no twisting of words there he is direct in what he says. so his religious beliefs line up with what we would call normal christian teaching for his time.

Doesn't matter. It's not relevant since I never said he didn't believe in a God. In fact, my opening post says that he does believe in a God. This thread is a debate on the specifics of his beliefs in God. What part of that don't you get?

He does not believe in just A god he believed in the god of abraham. That same god who knows all things and gives all knowledge so all intelligence comes from him. man's unitary intelligence is not pieces of GOD. It is small pieces of his knowledge that he has given to us. intelligence as used by garvey here does not mean self awareness he's not using the word like that.

he means knowledge or understanding the paragraph gives an example of this.

By the way your source was compiled and edited by other people not garvey himself but the speech i dropped garvey spoke with his own mouth.

 

[bambu]

I can't see that. I'll have to get out my kindle. I'm going to the cafe first though to see what they got to eat.

Give me a synopsis.

In this video of marcus very famous speech he basically states his belief in god the son, god the father and god the holy ghost. the god of ethiopia, there is no twisting of words there he is direct in what he says. so his religious beliefs line up with what we would call normal christian teaching for his time.

Doesn't matter. It's not relevant since I never said he didn't believe in a God. In fact, my opening post says that he does believe in a God. This thread is a debate on the specifics of his beliefs in God. What part of that don't you get?

He does not believe in just A god he believed in the god of abraham. That same god who knows all things and gives all knowledge so all intelligence comes from him. man's unitary intelligence is not pieces of GOD. It is small pieces of his knowledge that he has given to us. intelligence as used by garvey here does not mean self awareness he's not using the word like that.

he means knowledge or understanding the paragraph gives an example of this.

By the way your source was compiled and edited by other people not garvey himself but the speech i dropped garvey spoke with his own mouth.

 

[bambu]

"We believe in the God of Ethiopia, the everlasting God, God the Father, God the Son, and God the Holy Ghost, but we shall worship Him through the spectacles of Ethiopia"

~ Marcus Garvey

/thread.........

 

[Bodhi]

In this video of marcus very famous speech he basically states his belief in god the son, god the father and god the holy ghost. the god of ethiopia, there is no twisting of words there he is direct in what he says. so his religious beliefs line up with what we would call normal christian teaching for his time.

By the way your source was compiled and edited by other people not garvey himself but the speech i dropped garvey spoke with his own mouth.

That speech is from a PBS documentary entitled, Look For Me In The Whirlwind. The voice you're hearing is not Garvey, but actor Ron Bobb-Semple, as the video description says. It's like Denzel Washington playing the part of Malcolm X, only in a documentary. Sorry to be the bearer of bad news. You're naive if you think that documentaries aren't edited either.

That same god who knows all things and gives all knowledge so all intelligence comes from him. man's unitary intelligence is not pieces of GOD. It is small pieces of his knowledge that he has given to us.

You would have a greater argument had Garvey not said.. "All the unitary intelligence of the universe goes to make God". Thus, all intelligence is God. God, to Garvey, is the totality. Garvey said, "No part is greater than the whole. The whole is always greater than any single part and man is only a single part of God". Garvey did not say that God is a being with intelligence. Garvey said God is universal intelligence, period; without any personification.. That means nothing in the way of being a person or acting like a person.

I've already demonstrated in detail Garvey's thoughts on the trinity. You need not even go there; it's already been established (by me) and that is not what I'm debating.

 

[Bodhi]

Basically what I'm saying is, his conception of God is different from yours or even orthodox Christianity, not that he didn't believe in God or that he didn't believe in the trinity.

 

[Ajackson17]

Christians don't even know how to worship yahweh or agree on how he should be revered or what he is. It's the most broken religion.

 

[Bodhi]

Christians don't even know how to worship yahweh or agree on how he should be revered or what he is. It's the most broken religion.

..which is why it's logical to deduce that he doesn't exist.

 

[zombie]

In this video of marcus very famous speech he basically states his belief in god the son, god the father and god the holy ghost. the god of ethiopia, there is no twisting of words there he is direct in what he says. so his religious beliefs line up with what we would call normal christian teaching for his time.

By the way your source was compiled and edited by other people not garvey himself but the speech i dropped garvey spoke with his own mouth.

That speech is from a PBS documentary entitled, Look For Me In The Whirlwind. The voice you're hearing is not Garvey, but actor Ron Bobb-Semple, as the video description says. You're naive if you think that documentaries aren't edited either.

That same god who knows all things and gives all knowledge so all intelligence comes from him. man's unitary intelligence is not pieces of GOD. It is small pieces of his knowledge that he has given to us.

You would have a greater argument had Garvey not said.. "All the unitary intelligence of the universe goes to make God". Thus, all intelligence is God. God, to Garvey, is the totality. Garvey said, "No part is greater than the whole. The whole is always greater than any single part and man is only a single part of God". Garvey did not say that God is a being with intelligence. Garvey said God is universal intelligence, period; without any personification.. That means nothing in the way of being a person or acting like a person.

I've already demonstrated in detail Garvey's thoughts on the trinity. You need not even go there; it's already been established (by me) and that is not what I'm debating.

the words of the speech were written down and said by garvey so just because it was preformed by someone else does not make it invalid and is still a much better source than what you have brought. Also you don't debate by telling someone what you have established especially when what you claim to have established is wrong. Who the fuck do you think you are?? nigga please.

Garvey is using the intelligence to mean god's knowledge and universal intelligence means all knowledge not that god itself is only knowledge.the bible affirms that all knowledge comes from god and god having all knowledge of course the whole would be greater than the single part of knowledge that god has giving man.

In the very first paragraph it reads god is "spirit and intelligence" spirit does not mean soul in christain theology,a spirit is more like a personality and god has a male like personality and that is why he is personified as a male in the bible garvey would know this. This is a poem written by marcus

Christ The Way

Oh, with the Spirit as of old,

I chant a prayer to my God;

The Being, precious, more than gold

That Croesus has ever had.

I lift my soul to Him above,

And sing the angel's happy praise;

The song of life in joy of love

That men from earth to Heaven raise.

There's joy in Paradise for me,

Although a weary child of sin;

The penitent on Calv'ry's tree

May find the way to enter in.

My hopes are good, in Christ, the Lord;

On Him I rest my cares of heart;

He will so bridge the Heavenly Ford

To show the way ere I depart.

Do you want more ether i can give it to you.

 

[NYETOPn]

Who here is agnostic or an atheist?

 

[bambu]

I don't think anyone is arguing that Garvey said God was a being with intelligence.......

You are just stuck on the preconception of God as a man or being........

Again......

Hark, now, let every creature hear,

"Time never was when man was not."

"The thoughts of Allah cannot be circumscribed. No finite mind can comprehend things infinite. All finite things are subject unto change. All finite things will cease to be because there was a time when they were not."

The bodies and the souls of men are finite things, and they will change, yea, from the finite point of view the time will come when they will be no more. "But man himself is not the body, nor the soul; he is a spirit and a part of Allah."

HOMAGE: NOBLE DREW ALI

 

[bambu]

"It is only the belief and the confidence we have in a God why man is able to understand his own

social institutions, and move and live like a rational human being. Take away the highest ideal:

faith and confidence in a God, and mankind at large is reduced to savagery and the race

destroyed."

 

[Bodhi]

the words of the speech were written down and said by garvey so just because it was preformed by someone else does not make it invalid and is still a much better source than what you have brought.

The words of the book I'm referencing were also written by him and unlike the speech, the book goes into detail about his theology. The documentary was edited just like the book. The book is a better source than the documentary because the book is a written copy of lessons given personally by Garvey to students in the UNIA.

Also you don't debate by telling someone what you have established especially when what you claim to have established is wrong.

Why not? I've already said Garvey believed in the trinity. In fact, I was the first to bring it up in this thread so I'm not denying that fact. That's not what I'm debating. So my point is that you using that fact as a basis for your counter argument is unproductive.

In the very first paragraph it reads god is "spirit and intelligence"

Yeah, not a spirit with intelligence. There's a difference.

a spirit is more like a personality and god has a male like personality and that is why he is personified as a male in the bible garvey would know this.

Garvey said God is universal intelligence and as such, God has no personage. It's there in the book.

 

[zombie]

Basically what I'm saying is, his conception of God is different from yours or even orthodox Christianity, not that he didn't believe in God or that he didn't believe in the trinity.

All it takes to be a mainstream christian is a belief in the existence of the trinity and the teaching of christ as being the truth, it is that which make christianity what it really is.

get the stereotypes of christianity out of your fucking head and you'll understand why i keep telling you marcus garvey was a christian and not a pan-theist or any of that other shit you would like to make him out to be.

 

[Bodhi]

Basically what I'm saying is, his conception of God is different from yours or even orthodox Christianity, not that he didn't believe in God or that he didn't believe in the trinity.

All it takes to be a mainstream christian is a belief in the existence of the trinity and the teaching of christ as being the truth, it is that which make christianity what it really is.

get the stereotypes of christianity out of your fucking head and you'll understand why i keep telling you marcus garvey was a christian and not a pan-theist or any of that other shit you would like to make him out to be.

I never said he wasn't a Christian. Actually, I said he was. My original claim was that he wasn't a Christian IN THE SENSE that you are; not that he wasn't a Christian at all. Following from that, I'm saying also that his conception of God was not orthodox Christianity.. and that his conception was different from yours.

 

[zombie]

the words of the speech were written down and said by garvey so just because it was preformed by someone else does not make it invalid and is still a much better source than what you have brought.

The words of the book I'm referencing were also written by him and unlike the speech, the book goes into detail about his theology. The documentary was edited just like the book. The book is a better source than the documentary because the book is a written copy of lessons given personally by Garvey to students in the UNIA.

Also you don't debate by telling someone what you have established especially when what you claim to have established is wrong.

Why not? I've already said Garvey believed in the trinity. In fact, I was the first to bring it up in this thread so I'm not denying that fact. That's not what I'm debating. So my point is that you using that fact as a basis for your counter argument is unproductive.

In the very first paragraph it reads god is "spirit and intelligence"

Yeah, not a spirit with intelligence. There's a difference.

a spirit is more like a personality and god has a male like personality and that is why he is personified as a male in the bible garvey would know this.

Garvey said God is universal intelligence and as such, God has no personage. It's there in the book.

You are contradicting yourself if you say garvey believed in the trinity then you cannot turn around and say garvey only knew god as being universal intelligence. because central to the belief of the trinity is the belief that god was personified as christ.

I don't disagree with you god is universal intelligence that means god is all knowldge but that does not mean god has no personality. The conculsions that you are getting from that one paragraph are wrong.

 

[zombie]

Basically what I'm saying is, his conception of God is different from yours or even orthodox Christianity, not that he didn't believe in God or that he didn't believe in the trinity.

All it takes to be a mainstream christian is a belief in the existence of the trinity and the teaching of christ as being the truth, it is that which make christianity what it really is.

get the stereotypes of christianity out of your fucking head and you'll understand why i keep telling you marcus garvey was a christian and not a pan-theist or any of that other shit you would like to make him out to be.

I never said he wasn't a Christian. Actually, I said he was. My original claim was that he wasn't a Christian IN THE SENSE that you are; not that he wasn't a Christian at all. Following from that, I'm saying also that his conception of God was not orthodox Christianity.. and that his conception was different from yours.

But you don't know my conception of what the christian god is, you only think you do and that is the problem. My conception of god lines up pretty well with garvey because he believed in the trinity and so do I.

What do you think is "orthodox christianity" you don't know what i believe