Marcus Garvey and God

[Bodhi]

You are contradicting yourself if you say garvey believed in the trinity then you cannot turn around and say garvey only knew god a being universal intelligence. because central to the belief of the trinity is the belief that god was personified as christ.

No, Garvey believed that the Holy Spirit was inherent in all men, being parts of it, but that it was up to man to identify with it. Christ was a man who set an example in identifying himself with his true nature; that is, being one in the whole of the holy spirit. In his own words:

"The life of Christ is intended to show man that by obedience he can lift himself to the highest soul expression in keeping with the Holy Spirit of God, of which he is a part"
http://books.google.com/books?id=tMkPehHDd-wC&pg=PA52&dq=marcus+garvey+in+the+vilest+man,+there+is+the+holy+spirit&hl=en&sa=X&ei=cXzjUfiDMcvi4APXh4GoAw&ved=0CDMQ6AEwAQ#v=onepage&q=marcus garvey in the vilest man, there is the holy spirit&f=false

I don't disagree with you god is universal intelligence that means god is all knowldge but that does not mean god has no personality. The conculsions that you are getting from that one paragraph are wrong.

"There is a God and ... He is not a person nor a physical being"
http://books.google.com/books?id=chR4mGJNCS0C&pg=PA221&dq=marcus+garvey+lesson+5+god&hl=en&sa=X&ei=bXrjUbX1Mq-z4APvp4DIBA&ved=0CC8Q6AEwAA#v=onepage&q=marcus garvey lesson 5 god&f=false

 

[alissowack]

Being a Christian is believing that Jesus (or whatever his proper name is) is the Christ; the Son of God that through his life, death and ressurection he saved the world from sin.

According to these readings, Garvey does not acknowledge this.

 

[zombie]

Being a Christian is believing that Jesus (or whatever his proper name is) is the Christ; the Son of God that through his life, death and ressurection he saved the world from sin.

According to these readings, Garvey does not acknowledge this.

Garvey believed all of that.

 

[Bodhi]

Basically what I'm saying is, his conception of God is different from yours or even orthodox Christianity, not that he didn't believe in God or that he didn't believe in the trinity.

All it takes to be a mainstream christian is a belief in the existence of the trinity and the teaching of christ as being the truth, it is that which make christianity what it really is.

get the stereotypes of christianity out of your fucking head and you'll understand why i keep telling you marcus garvey was a christian and not a pan-theist or any of that other shit you would like to make him out to be.

I never said he wasn't a Christian. Actually, I said he was. My original claim was that he wasn't a Christian IN THE SENSE that you are; not that he wasn't a Christian at all. Following from that, I'm saying also that his conception of God was not orthodox Christianity.. and that his conception was different from yours.

But you don't know my conception of what the christian god is, you only think you do and that is the problem. My conception of god lines up pretty well with garvey because he believed in the trinity and so do I.

What do you think is "orthodox christianity" you don't know what i believe

You believe God is a conscious being with intelligence who created man separate from himself.

Garvey believed each man's intelligence was merely a unitary part of the totality, or the universal intelligence, called God. His God was not a person (keep in mind I've said person, not human being).

In Garvey' s view, we are parts of God who is the whole.

In orthodox Christianity, we are not parts of God but creations of God.

 

[zombie]

Being a Christian is believing that Jesus (or whatever his proper name is) is the Christ; the Son of God that through his life, death and ressurection he saved the world from sin.

According to these readings, Garvey does not acknowledge this.

Garvey deep belief in christ and every thing you just said can clearly be seen in his poems

The call of heaven

I've come to learn the story

Of Jesus in His bright glory;

That home for sinners set so free

By love for you and -love for me.

I bow to Thee, Son most Holy;

In truth Thou art King of Glory.

So save my soul and make me good

That I may be where Eli stood.

Thy journey through grim Bethany

Led to the Cross' sad agony;

But now Thou art the Lord of Host,

The Father, Son and Holy Ghost.

Now send to me, Light of Glory,

The message good, true and holy;

For I am ready now for home,

No longer in this vale to roam.

 

[zombie]

Basically what I'm saying is, his conception of God is different from yours or even orthodox Christianity, not that he didn't believe in God or that he didn't believe in the trinity.

All it takes to be a mainstream christian is a belief in the existence of the trinity and the teaching of christ as being the truth, it is that which make christianity what it really is.

get the stereotypes of christianity out of your fucking head and you'll understand why i keep telling you marcus garvey was a christian and not a pan-theist or any of that other shit you would like to make him out to be.

I never said he wasn't a Christian. Actually, I said he was. My original claim was that he wasn't a Christian IN THE SENSE that you are; not that he wasn't a Christian at all. Following from that, I'm saying also that his conception of God was not orthodox Christianity.. and that his conception was different from yours.

But you don't know my conception of what the christian god is, you only think you do and that is the problem. My conception of god lines up pretty well with garvey because he believed in the trinity and so do I.

What do you think is "orthodox christianity" you don't know what i believe

You believe God is a conscious being with intelligence who created man separate from himself.

Garvey believed each man's intelligence was merely a unitary part of the totality, or the universal intelligence, called God. His God was not a person (keep in mind I've said person, not human being).

In Garvey' s view, we are parts of God who is the whole.

In orthodox Christianity, we are not parts of God but creations of God.

These are your views on what garvey teachings but not what garvey said.

This is what garvey said:

The example set by our Lord and Master nineteen hundred years ago is but the example that

every reformer must make up his mind to follow if we are indeed to serve those to whom we

minister. Service to humanity means sacrifice. That has been demonstrated by our blessed Lord

and Redeemer whose resurrection we commemorate this day. As Christ triumphed nearly two

thousand years ago over death and the grave, as He was risen from the dead, so do I hope that

400,000,000 Negroes of to-day will triumph over the slavishness of the past, intellectually,

physically, morally and even religiously; that on this anniversary of our risen Lord, we ourselves

will be risen from the slumber of the ages; risen in thought to higher ideals, to a loftier purpose,

to a truer conception of life.

from the philosopy and opinions of marcus garvey

 

[Bodhi]

These are your views on what garvey teachings but not what garvey said.

This is what garvey said:

The example set by our Lord and Master nineteen hundred years ago is but the example that

every reformer must make up his mind to follow if we are indeed to serve those to whom we

minister. Service to humanity means sacrifice. That has been demonstrated by our blessed Lord

and Redeemer whose resurrection we commemorate this day. As Christ triumphed nearly two

thousand years ago over death and the grave, as He was risen from the dead, so do I hope that

400,000,000 Negroes of to-day will triumph over the slavishness of the past, intellectually,

physically, morally and even religiously; that on this anniversary of our risen Lord, we ourselves

will be risen from the slumber of the ages; risen in thought to higher ideals, to a loftier purpose,

to a truer conception of life.

from the philosopy and opinions of marcus garvey

I already established that...

[the soul] passes away if it is bad and lives on like Christ if it is good.... the thing that sins in man is the man's individual soul, which is his mind.

 

[Ajackson17]

Only 3 niggas discussing this or the others are just too fucking stupid to answer?

 

[Bodhi]

Only 3 niggas discussing this or the others are just too fucking stupid to answer?

What do you think about it?

 

[alissowack]

Being a Christian is believing that Jesus (or whatever his proper name is) is the Christ; the Son of God that through his life, death and ressurection he saved the world from sin.

According to these readings, Garvey does not acknowledge this.

Garvey deep belief in christ and every thing you just said can clearly be seen in his poems

The call of heaven

I've come to learn the story

Of Jesus in His bright glory;

That home for sinners set so free

By love for you and -love for me.

I bow to Thee, Son most Holy;

In truth Thou art King of Glory.

So save my soul and make me good

That I may be where Eli stood.

Thy journey through grim Bethany

Led to the Cross' sad agony;

But now Thou art the Lord of Host,

The Father, Son and Holy Ghost.

Now send to me, Light of Glory,

The message good, true and holy;

For I am ready now for home,

No longer in this vale to roam.

His poems do not reflect his "other" writings. If Oceanic's posts about Garvey are correct, he has this "I can save myself" mentality; that he has God figured out and suggests that others should do the same. He treats Jesus's ministry as a mere example on how to live instead of Jesus being "the Life". Now, this is just based on the findings on this thread and could be a misrepresentation of where his life was when he wrote these things. He could just be a believer. I just don't see how he could be from my skimmings through the thread.

 

[zombie]

Being a Christian is believing that Jesus (or whatever his proper name is) is the Christ; the Son of God that through his life, death and ressurection he saved the world from sin.

According to these readings, Garvey does not acknowledge this.

Garvey deep belief in christ and every thing you just said can clearly be seen in his poems

The call of heaven

I've come to learn the story

Of Jesus in His bright glory;

That home for sinners set so free

By love for you and -love for me.

I bow to Thee, Son most Holy;

In truth Thou art King of Glory.

So save my soul and make me good

That I may be where Eli stood.

Thy journey through grim Bethany

Led to the Cross' sad agony;

But now Thou art the Lord of Host,

The Father, Son and Holy Ghost.

Now send to me, Light of Glory,

The message good, true and holy;

For I am ready now for home,

No longer in this vale to roam.

His poems do not reflect his "other" writings. If Oceanic's posts about Garvey are correct, he has this "I can save myself" mentality; that he has God figured out and suggests that others should do the same. He treats Jesus's ministry as a mere example on how to live instead of Jesus being "the Life". Now, this is just based on the findings on this thread and could be a misrepresentation of where his life was when he wrote these things. He could just be a believer. I just don't see how he could be from my skimmings through the thread.

No. You need to read more of his writings oceanic's post and the conculsions he reaches about garvey and his teachings a erroneous and are based on one paragraph. garvey was a protestant christian and became a catholic shortly before he died. Garvey wrote this:

Let others in their sin, in their wickedness seek after the infant Life that Thou gaveist to all

mankind. We in our simplicity shall find refuge for Thee even in the land of Egypt. Yes, the

world of sinful, wicked men cried out "Crucify Him! Crucify Him! But Lord because Thou art

our Master, because Thou art our Prince of peace, because Thou art our Redeemer, we shall

render unto Thee all help possible, even in bearing the Cross up the heights of Calvary, for in life

Thou hast been our friend; in death we know Thou shalt remember us, and now that Thou art

sitting at the right hand of God, the Father, now that Thou hast conquered death, the grave and

hell, surely in Thy mercy Thou shalt remember us. So today even though hundreds of years have

rolled by since Thy crucifixion, we know that there is in Thine heart, there is in Thy soul a warm

spot for the Sons and Daughters of Africa whose forebears bore the cross for Thee up the heights

of Calvary to thy crucifixion.

We sing and shout with the angels; we ring our joy bells; we blow our horns in praise because

Thou art indeed the Jesus, the Christ, the Emanuel to us, the Son of Righteousness, the Prince of

Peace.

As sons and daughters of Africa, may not four hundred millions of us the world over on this

Christmas morn pray for the redemption of that Motherland which sheltered our Blessed

Redeemer when the wild, wicked men of the world sought His life; in the same manner wild,

wicked men seek the lives of Negroes today, and burn, lynch and kill them because they have not

the strength that makes man mighty. But with the Almighty Power of God and with the guidance

and mercy of our Blessed Lord we feel that one day Ethiopia shall stretch forth her hand, and

whether it be at the second coming or before, we shall all sing our Hosannas, shout our praises to

God for freedom, for liberty, for life.

And also :

As with the angels let us sing, "Hail the New Born King, the Prince of Peace, Hail to the Son of

Righteousness, for with Thee there is life, without Thee there is death". For as thou died upon

Calvary's mount to make us better, to redeem us from our sins, may we not hope for a

continuance of that love even for today? and knowing Thee in Thy bountiful love for all

mankind, may we not further ask that Thy Spirit lighten up our hearts and bring to us by the

touch of Thy grace, the knowledge of the Everlasting Brotherhood of Man, and the Eternal

Fatherhood of God?

All this is from the philosophies and opinions of marcus garvey a book of his various speeches and writings

 

[bambu]

I think oceanic is just trying ( in vain ) to find accomplices for his pan atheist beliefs.......

 

[Ajackson17]

Only 3 niggas discussing this or the others are just too fucking stupid to answer?

What do you think about it?

He has more of a Buddhist thought process mixed with heavy christian ideology. A very metaphysical thought process that the average christian should be thinking about. It's your religion so you should really think deeply and channel deeply to understand the roots of your belief like Marcus Garvey done. That's why he is a GOAT and not a sheep.

 

[Bodhi]

I think oceanic is just trying ( in vain ) to find accomplices for his pan atheist beliefs.......

Then you would be wrong. I don't have any use for Garvey's philosophy. I thought most of the book was idiotic and immature. In addition, I think his theological beliefs are erroneous.

So tell me why I need a Christian to support pan atheism?

 

[Bodhi]

It's your religion so you should really think deeply and channel deeply to understand the roots of your belief like Marcus Garvey done.

Are you speaking to me here or in general?

It's interesting that you observe Buddhist thought in his writings. I didn't catch them.

 

[zombie]

I think oceanic is just trying ( in vain ) to find accomplices for his pan atheist beliefs.......

yeah, pretty much he's one of those new age faggots i envision this fool sitting under a tree with a crystal around his neck chanting nam myoho renge kyo.

He's a fucking buddhist but then has the nerve to want to turn around and shit on theism. Especially the judeo christain islamic god.

@oceanic wants to help people reach emptiness

 

[zombie]

Only 3 niggas discussing this or the others are just too fucking stupid to answer?

What do you think about it?

He has more of a Buddhist thought process mixed with heavy christian ideology. A very metaphysical thought process that the average christian should be thinking about. It's your religion so you should really think deeply and channel deeply to understand the roots of your belief like Marcus Garvey done. That's why he is a GOAT and not a sheep.

There is no buddhist throught is garvey. Buddhism is a philosophy of death and nothingness in contrast and in a sense garvey wanted us to be warriors not fucking cowards like buddhism would have us be.

 

[Bodhi]

There is no buddhist throught is garvey. Buddhism is a philosophy of death and nothingness in contrast and in a sense garvey wanted us to be warriors not fucking cowards like buddhism would have us be.

Ironic how Garvey wanted to be a warrior when the Buddha actually was one, born into the Shakya clan who occupied a section of ancient India historically housing several rich and powerful black empires.

Your Christ tells you to love your enemy and turn the other cheek.

The first Buddhist precept is to abstain from taking life.. similar but a little different from your "thou shalt not kill" based on the fact that the Buddha didn't command his followers to do this or that. He only taught karma and its consequences.

 

[bambu]

I think oceanic is just trying ( in vain ) to find accomplices for his pan atheist beliefs.......

Then you would be wrong. I don't have any use for Garvey's philosophy. I thought most of the book was idiotic and immature. In addition, I think his theological beliefs are erroneous.

So tell me why I need a Christian to support pan atheism?

Well if you aren't here to build.......

Then you are trying to destroy...............

& failing miserably..................

 

[zombie]

There is no buddhist throught is garvey. Buddhism is a philosophy of death and nothingness in contrast and in a sense garvey wanted us to be warriors not fucking cowards like buddhism would have us be.

Ironic how Garvey wanted to be a warrior when the Buddha actually was one, born into the Shakya clan who occupied a section of ancient India historically housing several rich and powerful black empires.

Your Christ tells you to love your enemy and turn the other cheek.

The first Buddhist precept is to abstain from taking life.. similar but a little different from your "thou shalt not kill" based on the fact that the Buddha didn't command his followers to do this or that. He only taught karma and its consequences.

Buddha being born into a warrior class does not mean he was a warrior.

This only proves that buddha was a pussy instead of embracing life he ran from it his whole religion is about running from reality. just like how he ran from his role of prince. Christ had the strength to choose to accept the cup that was given to him, to live life until it's end and to give HIS life for what he knew to be true. It's "thou shalt not murder" the god of abraham will slaughter the wicked.