Let's say you were born BEFORE year 1 AD

[beenwize]

because they were added later to further assert control.
Luring in people to donate to the church with promises of heaven.
And scaring people out of leaving the religion with threats of hell.

i don't doubt tamperingl with all these believe or be damned scriptures. Christianity is more of a religion about fear of hell/damnation rather than true spiritual enlightenment. they have some good spiritual teachings in there from Yahshua but I don't think it's his complete truth to us.

... the book of revelations speaks of some type of one world government. do u think parts of the book consist of a blueprint they are following?

 

[beenwize]

who are you referring to as following the bible as a blueprint?

nvm.........

 

[kingblaze84]

If you're quoting the new testament your a puppet.

If you're quoting the old testament and are not Jewish you're a pawn.

The intelligent know this already.......a shame some here aren't.

 

[kingblaze84]

It's funny how some of the same people who hate the white man for slavery and genocide are the same people who love the Bible, a book that supports slavery and genocide. Massa would be proud.

 

[Rock_Well]

lol I know that by reading the book, and if there is a scripture indicating that someone had knowledge of an afterlife heaven or hell then plz show me... I am not completely saying that a heaven or hell does not exist but I am ASKING why was the ancient world not taught this concept thru biblical scripture considering earth history goes back to at least 10,000 years?

you, friend, would need to first show how the verses in the OT you've been given were taken out of context, and/or how they don't indicate a knowledge of afterlife.

If you can't do that then you can just forfeit or maybe carry on playing the silly bait game you've been playing; you might end up feeling like you've actually accomplished something.

 

[beenwize]

you, friend, would need to first show how the verses in the OT you've been given were taken out of context, and/or how they don't indicate a knowledge of afterlife.

If you can't do that then you can just forfeit or maybe carry on playing the silly bait game you've been playing; you might end up feeling like you've actually accomplished something.

as stated here there is NO scripture that i have seen of anyone in the OT preaching to the world anything about an afterlife heaven or hell... since u state it's there then U go find it and stop crying.

there are no examples from hebrew texts. its just not there.

 

[Rock_Well]

Jesus is not recognized by the Hebrew people as being the savior. Thus he has no credibility when speaking on what the old testament is referring to. He is only recognized as the savior by Christians. However, Christians are not Hebrews.

This is just false so we'll be moving along; nothing to see here.

Just a point of interest here: you acknowledge that both OT and NT come from god.

True.

Regardless of whether Jesus is god or not, why would a new set of rules and beliefs be put into place without just reason? Why would god strike his old writings from the record and create new ones where pork and shrimp could be eaten? Why would he wait so long to create a heaven and a hell?

The New set of rules was part of the plan the whole time. It wasn't just put into place for no reason.

Where does it say in the NT that Heaven and Hell was just created at that point?

Seems someone took the OT and added to it to try and gain more control by way of organized religion. The idea of a heaven and hell are like positive and negative reinforcement used to condition followers to do as they are told and obey blindly.

As for using the NT to prove the OT, you can't fuckin' do it. The NT isn't recognized as truth by the Hebrew people.

The OT is recognized as truth by Muslims, Christians, and Jews alike, giving it more credibility.

Torah > Bible

people make assumptions

probably add their own shit in too

everyone has their own ideas of what a heaven and hell should/would consist of

this is false so there' nothing to discuss here either

 

[beenwize]

Where does it say in the NT that Heaven and Hell was just created at that point?

well according to the New Testament sin gets u into hell for an eternity... When Cain slew his brother, King David murdered and committed adultery, and Hebrews sinned over and over again why were none of them warned of an afterlife eternity in hell in the old testament?

If the residents of Sodom & Gommorah had knowledge of a afterlife hell then why didn't they repent?

If the ppl b4 the flood of Noah had knowledge of a afterlife hell then why didn't they repent?

 

[beenwize]

you, friend, would need to first show how the verses in the OT you've been given were taken out of context, and/or how they don't indicate a knowledge of afterlife.

If you can't do that then you can just forfeit or maybe carry on playing the silly bait game you've been playing; you might end up feeling like you've actually accomplished something.

wake up to the truth! U MAD?

[video=youtube;WtIREJVPfQY]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WtIREJVPfQY[/video]

 

[waterproof]

Jesus is not recognized by the Hebrew people as being the savior. Thus he has no credibility when speaking on what the old testament is referring to. He is only recognized as the savior by Christians. However, Christians are not Hebrews.

Just a point of interest here: you acknowledge that both OT and NT come from god. Regardless of whether Jesus is god or not, why would a new set of rules and beliefs be put into place without just reason? Why would god strike his old writings from the record and create new ones where pork and shrimp could be eaten? Why would he wait so long to create a heaven and a hell?

Seems someone took the OT and added to it to try and gain more control by way of organized religion. The idea of a heaven and hell are like positive and negative reinforcement used to condition followers to do as they are told and obey blindly.

As for using the NT to prove the OT, you can't fuckin' do it. The NT isn't recognized as truth by the Hebrew people.
The OT is recognized as truth by Muslims, Christians, and Jews alike, giving it more credibility.

Torah > Bible

people make assumptions
probably add their own shit in too
everyone has their own ideas of what a heaven and hell should/would consist of

The intelligent know this already.......a shame some here aren't.

It's shame you quoting somebody who's talking about the Ashknazi Jews who have no lineage to the house of Jacob/Hebrews, So Anybody who ancestors came on those slave ships can quote the old testament and the Intelligent know this already and it's a shame some here aren't. SHALOM

 

[waterproof]

Jews, gods true chosen people, don't believe in Jesus. It's a well known fact. They reject the new testament and Jesus and hell and all that other stuff that was added by outside sources way after the creation of the Torah.

Hell is never mentioned in the old testament.
Sheol does not mean hell.
That error came from the translation from Greek.

Jews do not believe in Hell.

YOUNG ICE just stop, you do not have any knowledge of self and you dont have no knowledge what you speaking about. Jews those europeans in my ancestors homeland is NOT HEBREWS AND ARE NOT THE CHOSEN PEOPLE.

AND IF YOU BELIEVE SO THEN YOU BETTER READ THE SCRIPTURES AGAIN BECAUSE THE SCRIPTURES SAY'S YOUR A LIE, and if you think that then how can you Love Yahuwah WHEN YOU DONT EVEN ACKNOWLEDGE HIS PEOPLE.

IT'S A WELL KNOWN FACT THAT THE HEBREWS LOVED AND FOLLOWED YAHUSHUA WHEN HE WAS WALKING ON THIS EARTH AND KNEW WHO HE WAS.

IT WAS THE SCRIBES, PHARISEE'S, THE GENTILES AND CHILDREN OF AMALEK who killed and dont believe in YAHUSHUA

 

[And_So_It_Burns]

wake up to the truth! U MAD?

[video=youtube;WtIREJVPfQY]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WtIREJVPfQY[/video]

Seems about right....what other way to manipulate people than with the threat of eternal hell fire. The concept of hell always seemed farfetched to me even as a kid really couldn’t believe an all loving God could put us in the most painful place humanly possible

 

[beenwize]

Jews, don't believe in Jesus. It's a well known fact. They reject the new testament and Jesus and hell and all that other stuff that was added by outside sources way after the creation of the Torah.

Hell is never mentioned in the old testament.
Sheol does not mean hell.
That error came from the translation from Greek.

Jews do not believe in Hell.

everything stated here is true except the chosen part...

 

[beenwize]

according to the OT they are, are they not?

I honestly dont believe in either book

but if you're going by what they say it is clear that the OT has more authority over the NT.

If the OT is recognized by all abrahamic religion followers, but the NT is not, it becomes obvious which one has more authority.

yea i jus think the chosen ppl thing is made up.

 

[janklow]

according to the OT they are, are they not?

probably the issue for some is adding the word "true" in there

 

[Rock_Well]

as stated here there is NO scripture that i have seen of anyone in the OT preaching to the world anything about an afterlife heaven or hell... since u state it's there then U go find it and stop crying.

.......crying??? no...quite an imagination u got? yes.

now notice...the issue is no longer that there's no indication of anyone in the OT having knowledge of an afterlife (which there is indication and examples of this); Now it's that there is no one specifically preaching it to the world. How many times you going to change the issue? Saying it's no verse of anyone preaching about Heaven and Hell in the OT is like saying it's no verse of anyone preaching about the Church in the OT. The fact alone that there not so much a single mention anywhere in the OT of The Church (a New Testament feature), established by CHrist since the day of Pentecost in Acts 2 ch. 1, does not make the fact that the Church is mentioned in the NT any less real duhh. Getting the facts straight is just half the battle, you still gotta have the wisdom and understanding to be able to put them together right.

You were simply asked to explain the OT verses that others in the thread have given you that show the writers had at least somewhat of an understanding of afterlife. Simple. But no...You have not done that. It just goes to show, like i said, you not interested in being objective and now you not even being reasonable. So there's nothing further to discuss.

 

[VIBE]

All there is to say is if there is a "truth" to all of this shit, it would've been made clear by god himself already. If there is one absolute truth, why the confusion? God character in the bible seems to implicate he don't fuck around. He seems to be adimate about making sure ALL know he is the one and only god, why doesn't he come out now and show or say so? If you base shit on the bible then god should've made his spectacular debut and said something already. Simple things in the bible bothered him, should the world today more so than before? I'd think so.

 

[beenwize]

.......crying??? no...quite an imagination u got? yes.

now notice...the issue is no longer that there's no indication of anyone in the OT having knowledge of an afterlife (which there is indication and examples of this); Now it's that there is no one specifically preaching it to the world. How many times you going to change the issue? Saying it's no verse of anyone preaching about Heaven and Hell in the OT is like saying it's no verse of anyone preaching about the Church in the OT. The fact alone that there not so much a single mention anywhere in the OT of The Church (a New Testament feature), established by CHrist since the day of Pentecost in Acts 2 ch. 1, does not make the fact that the Church is mentioned in the NT any less real duhh. Getting the facts straight is just half the battle, you still gotta have the wisdom and understanding to be able to put them together right.

You were simply asked to explain the OT verses that others in the thread have given you that show the writers had at least somewhat of an understanding of afterlife. Simple. But no...You have not done that. It just goes to show, like i said, you not interested in being objective and now you not even being reasonable. So there's nothing further to discuss.

once again NO proof just more VAIN ramblings... I believe the idea of eternal hell was invented by the Roman Catholic church.

 

[waterproof]

@ JUDAH7

STUDY AND SHOW YOURSELF APPROVE BOY!!!!!!!!

First of all since you like to be all Technical if you would of researched more and read the scriptures you would of got your answer.

1) Man was not meant for the place that was a pit of fire that the gentiles and heathens called hell but in Hebrew it was called "Gehenna", the original hebrew word for it was replaced in the scriptures by GREEKS , THERE was a place called Sheol where the Hebrews and Old testament knew of when you die you go there and be until your time has come.

Isaiah 29 :4 And thou shalt be brought down, and shalt speak out of the ground, and thy speech shall be low out of the dust, and thy voice shall be, as of one that hath a familiar spirit, out of the ground, and thy speech shall whisper out of the dust.

1 Samuel 28:8 And Saul disguised himself, and put on other raiment, and he went, and two men with him, and they came to the woman by night: and he said, I pray thee, divine unto me by the familiar spirit, and bring me him up, whom I shall name unto thee.

28:9 And the woman said unto him, Behold, thou knowest what Saul hath done, how he hath cut off those that have familiar spirits, and the wizards, out of the land: wherefore then layest thou a snare for my life, to cause me to die?

28:10 And Saul sware to her by YHWH, saying, As YHWH liveth, there shall no punishment happen to thee for this thing.

28:11 Then said the woman, Whom shall I bring up unto thee? And he said, Bring me up Samuel.

28:12 And when the woman saw Samuel, she cried with a loud voice: and the woman spake to Saul, saying, Why hast thou deceived me? for thou art Saul.

28:13 And the king said unto her, Be not afraid: for what sawest thou? And the woman said unto Saul, I saw Elohim ascending out of the earth.

28:14 And he said unto her, What form is he of? And she said, An old man cometh up; and he is covered with a mantle. And Saul perceived that it was Samuel, and he stooped with his face to the ground, and bowed himself.

28:15 And Samuel said to Saul, Why hast thou disquieted me, to bring me up? And Saul answered, I am sore distressed; for the Philistines make war against me, and Elohim is departed from me, and answereth me no more, neither by prophets, nor by dreams: therefore I have called thee, that thou mayest make known unto me what I shall do.

28:16 Then said Samuel, Wherefore then dost thou ask of me, seeing YHWH is departed from thee, and is become thine enemy?


so you see Samuel was summon from Sheol the place where the dead go, it doesnt matter if you a Saint or a Killer you going to that place. Now the Serpent will like to deceive you and others like you and say "SEE IT DOESNT MATTER IF YOU A SAINT OR A SINNER you going to the same place so EAT THAT PORK AND ACT LIKE THE HEATHENS AND DO ALL THE abominationS" Lucifer you is born wicked and a lair,killer and thief.

Now if "Gehenna" or hell wasnt meant for men, then why in the world they would of speak about it as a place to go if it wasnt meant for them, it dont make no sense.

What do the Master Teacher says about who the burning pit is meant for

Matthew 25 5:40 And the King shall answer and say unto them, Verily I say unto you, Inasmuch as ye have done it unto one of the least of these my brethren, ye have done it unto me.

25:41 Then shall he say also unto them on the left hand, Depart from me, ye cursed, into everlasting fire, prepared for the devil and his angels:


So now we know Hebrews knew of a place called Sheol and a place called Gehenna, and that burning fire pit was meant for Lucifer and his angels.

Psalm 16 16:10 For thou wilt not leave my soul in hell; neither wilt thou suffer thine Holy One to see corruption.


^^^^^^^From the Old Testament, that's where Yahushua went for three days.

Deuteronomy 32 :22 For a fire is kindled in mine anger, and shall burn unto the lowest hell, and shall consume the earth with her increase, and set on fire the foundations of the mountains.

As the GREAT HEBREW GOSPEL SINGER SANGED "SATAN WE'RE GOING TO TEAR YOUR KINGDOME DOWN" and all your lies.

@Judah 7 we going to see what the Prophet Enoch have to say about this.

 

[waterproof]

@ JUDAH7 read what the Prophet Enoch have to say

THE BOOK OF ENOCH

CHAPTER XXI

Preliminary and final place of punishment of the fallen angels (stars)


1. And I proceeded to where things were chaotic. 2. And I saw there something horrible: I saw neither a heaven above nor a firmly founded earth, but a place chaotic and horrible. 3. And there I saw seven stars of the heaven bound together in it, like great mountains and burning with fire. 4. Then I said: 'For what sin are they bound, and on what account have they been cast in hither?' 5. Then said Uriel, one of the holy angels, who was with me, and was chief over them, and said: 'Enoch, why dost thou ask, and why art thou eager for the truth? 6. These are of the number of the stars ⌈of heaven⌉, which have transgressed the commandment of the

p. 47

[paragraph continues] Lord, and are bound here till ten thousand years, the time entailed by their sins, are consummated.' 7. And from thence I went to another place, which was still more horrible than the former, and I saw a horrible thing: a great fire there which burnt and blazed, and the place was cleft as far as the abyss, being full of great descending columns of fire: neither its extent or magnitude could I see, nor could I conjecture. 8. Then I said: 'How fearful is the place and how terrible to look upon!' 9. Then Uriel answered me, one of the holy angels who was with me, and said unto me: 'Enoch, why hast thou such fear and affright?' And I answered: 'Because of this fearful place, and because of the spectacle of the pain.' 10. And he said ⌈⌈unto me⌉⌉: 'This place is the prison of the angels, and here they will be imprisoned for ever.'



XXII. Sheol, or the Underworld

1. And thence I went to another place, and he showed me in the west ⌈another⌉ great and high mountain [and] of hard rock.

E

2 And there was in it †four† hollow places, deep and wide and very smooth. †How† smooth are the hollow places and deep and dark to look at.

Gg

2. And there were †four† hollow places in it, deep and very smooth: †three† of them were dark and one bright; and there was a fountain of water in its midst. And I said: '†How† smooth are these hollow places, and deep and dark to view.'

3. Then Raphael answered, one of the holy angels who was with me, and said unto me: 'These hollow places have been created for this very purpose, that the spirits of the souls of the dead should assemble therein, yea that all the souls of the children of men should assemble here. And these places have

p. 48

been made to receive them till the day of their judgement and till their appointed period ⌈till the period appointed⌉, till the great judgement (comes) upon them.'

E

5. I saw the spirits of the children of men who were dead, and their voice went forth to heaven and made suit. 6. Then I asked Raphael the angel who was with me, and I said unto him: 'This spirit--whose is it whose voice goeth forth and maketh suit?'

Gg

5. I saw (the spirit of) a dead man making suit, and his voice went forth to heaven and made suit. 6. And I asked Raphael the angel who was with me, and I said unto him: 'This spirit which maketh suit, whose is it, whose voice goeth forth and maketh suit to heaven?'

7. And he answered me saying: 'This is the spirit which went forth from Abel, whom his brother Cain slew, and he makes his suit against him till his seed is destroyed from the face of the earth, and his seed is annihilated from amongst the seed of men.'

E

8. Then I asked regarding it, and regarding all the hollow places: 'Why as one separated from the other?'

9. And he answered me and said unto me: 'These three have been made that the spirits of the dead might be separated. And such a division has been made 〈for〉 the spirits of the righteous, in which there as the bright spring of water. 10. And such has

Gg

8. Then I asked regarding all the hollow places: 'Why is one separated from the other?'

9. And he answered me saying: 'These three have been made that the spirits of the dead might be separated. And this division has been made for the spirits of the righteous, in which there is the bright spring of water. 10. And this has been made for sinners

p. 49

E

been made for sinners when they die and are buried in the earth and judgement has not been executed on them in their lifetime. 11. Here their spirits shall be set apart in this great pain till the great day of judgement and punishment and torment of those who †curse† for ever, and retribution for their spirits. There He shall bind them for ever. 12. And such a division has been made for the spirits of those who make their suit, who make disclosures concerning their destruction, when they were slain in the days of the sinners. 13. Such has been made for the spirits of men who were not righteous but sinners, who were complete in transgression, and of the transgressors. they shall be companions: but their spirits shall not be slain in the day of judgement nor shall they be raised from thence. 14. Then I blessed the Lord of glory and said: 'Blessed be my Lord, the Lord of righteousness, who ruleth for ever.'

Gg

when they die and are buried in the earth and judgement has not been executed upon them in their lifetime. 11. Here their spirits shall be set apart in this great pain, till the great day of judgement, scourgings, and torments of the accursed for ever, so that (there maybe) retribution for their spirits. There He shall bind them for ever. 12. And this division has been made for the spirits of those who make their suit, who make disclosures concerning their destruction, when they were slain in the days of the sinners. 13. And this has been made for the spirits of men who shall not be righteous but sinners, who are godless, and of the lawless they shall be companions: but their spirits shall not be punished in the day of judgement nor shall they be raised from thence. 14. Then I blessed the Lord of Glory and said: 'Blessed art Thou, Lord of righteousness, who rulest over the world.'