Jehovah Witness

[texasdaking88]

I definitely understand dis-fellowship. It isn't a bad word either. You and I are friends and I steal from your house, then you decide you no longer want to be my friend. That makes sense. I'm with you.

The best analogy I was given about disfellowship came from a Brother (what Witnesses call male peers, for anyone else reading along) I was doing Bible study with.

He told me, when someone has cancer, there are options such as chemo therapy and sometimes, it's possible to cut the cancer out. If you don't cut the cancer out, it'll spread and the sickness will increase, eventually resulting in death.

He said, when someone is displaying behavior contradictory to the group-thought, they are in effect, a cancer. If their presence were to be tolerated, their actions could spread throughout the congregation and possibly result in bad things.

I understand that. You have a way of running things and if that way is compromised, the permutations in outcome are not appealing. I 100% respect that.

And lets be clear; most people disfellowed knew it was coming, it wasn't by surprised.

The thing is though, the common thread or shared value we all share is trying to be the best person we can be and if that is through the Bible, so be it. And in terms of the religious, most believe in a higher power. I don't submit myself to anyone's judgment outside of course, a court of law, in which you have little choice in the matter. To try to have me in a position where I can be expelled from a man-made group unless I repent to the approval of that same man-made group is an interesting proposition. Especially when the common thread that binds most people is the feeling there is a higher power and we truly want to be better and respectful to it/him/etc (whatever a person believes).

In essence, say you are a Witness, Texas. And whatever you do, did, etc the decision is made to ex-communicate you. Ok, you knew that could happen. My question to you is, has Jehova disassociated himself from you as well? Are you in a bad way with God unless you are reinstated at the Hall?

What's your viewpoint on that?

And my bad, I know I'm probably sounding disjointed, I'm in computer class typing on the skee. Not easy putting together a Totally coherent post right now, lol.

Jehovah doesn't leave u since ur relationship with God is personal and no one can take that.. but ur right, u definitely have talked to a witness with that cancer analogy.. lol

 

[texasdaking88]

I definitely understand dis-fellowship. It isn't a bad word either. You and I are friends and I steal from your house, then you decide you no longer want to be my friend. That makes sense. I'm with you.

The best analogy I was given about disfellowship came from a Brother (what Witnesses call male peers, for anyone else reading along) I was doing Bible study with.

He told me, when someone has cancer, there are options such as chemo therapy and sometimes, it's possible to cut the cancer out. If you don't cut the cancer out, it'll spread and the sickness will increase, eventually resulting in death.

He said, when someone is displaying behavior contradictory to the group-thought, they are in effect, a cancer. If their presence were to be tolerated, their actions could spread throughout the congregation and possibly result in bad things.

I understand that. You have a way of running things and if that way is compromised, the permutations in outcome are not appealing. I 100% respect that.

And lets be clear; most people disfellowed knew it was coming, it wasn't by surprised.

The thing is though, the common thread or shared value we all share is trying to be the best person we can be and if that is through the Bible, so be it. And in terms of the religious, most believe in a higher power. I don't submit myself to anyone's judgment outside of course, a court of law, in which you have little choice in the matter. To try to have me in a position where I can be expelled from a man-made group unless I repent to the approval of that same man-made group is an interesting proposition. Especially when the common thread that binds most people is the feeling there is a higher power and we truly want to be better and respectful to it/him/etc (whatever a person believes).

In essence, say you are a Witness, Texas. And whatever you do, did, etc the decision is made to ex-communicate you. Ok, you knew that could happen. My question to you is, has Jehova disassociated himself from you as well? Are you in a bad way with God unless you are reinstated at the Hall?

What's your viewpoint on that?

And my bad, I know I'm probably sounding disjointed, I'm in computer class typing on the skee. Not easy putting together a Totally coherent post right now, lol.

Jehovah doesn't leave u since ur relationship with God is personal and no one can take that.. but ur right, u definitely have talked to a witness with that cancer analogy.. lol

hold on.. I kinda misread what the question was..while ur relationship with God is personally, if uve been disfellowshipped, it's becuz u refused to repent..to even acknowledge that u have sinned against Jehovah, so y would he want to be with u thruout ur life if u make no attempt to follow his commandments??

 

[TheNeoShell]

Yeah, the Brother I was studying with is moving up in his congregation now. He's a cool guy.

I think we both agree, one's relationship with God would be a very personal one. That being said, is it that to get back in God's good graces, repentance has to be showed to the disciplinary committee when trying to rejoin the congregation? That committee is the deciding body when it comes to whether or not one can return, I believe. That repentance isn't 100% personal; how could it be? One being subject to that process is tantamount to going through a man (or in this case, a 3 man committee) to be reintroduced as being part of the flock of God.

Texas, you did something wrong and you feel like you dishonored God. Fair enough. You feel very bad for that and you want to get on the right track. That being said, how is that prescribed to you to execute? The relationship between you and Jehova is the ultimate of personal, yet you being in the Hall requires more than just you and God hashing it out. We both know this. When you sit with the Elders, they are the deciding factor on whether or not you are repentant enough, if at all. It's man you're answering to and that has a weird connotation for me.

Overall, my thing is this. I think everyone should read the Bible. I think it helps to promote a moral compass and understanding of the world. When taken literally, the Bible turns into a weapon of control, manipulation, etc. No one person can do that. Not by themselves. They need religion for that. And ultimately, that's where my conflict is.

That being said, I'll switch gears:

Texas, you could be my neighbor. My family, friend or just someone at the bus stop. I could love my fellow man and woman because we are all alike. We are all here trying to be the best we can. I don't require the threat of damnation or whatever other ideation to make me want to truly help people. And at this point, religion has been turned into that.

Merely as an example: I don't look at the extremists in the middle east as naturally evil people. They were merely born in a region that promotes this extreme type of behavior (for some. There are differences between Shiite and Sunni Muslims). What does it take to have someone kill another person? Can I go outside and tell Person A to kill Person B? Or maybe tell Person C to fly to California and kill whomever I don't like? That probably wouldn't go over well. Now, if I tell Person A, B, C, D, etc a very strong, religious reason to do what I said to do, I'd have at least some people getting it in.

Religion has been the most divisive and destructive creation man has ever come up with. And that personal understanding is always at the root of my interaction and intellectual exchanges on religious subjects.

Be clear though, from all my interactions, studying, reading, travels, etc, the thought of being a Jehovah Witness has been the most compatible belief system for me than any other. And with that, many conflicts still remained in ideology.

 

[texasdaking88]

@theneoshell .. I understand what you're saying but I think the part you are missing is that the elders only act in God's will, only by the examples laid out by the Bible, the guide we use with our life.. while our relationship with God is personal, the congregation is considered the vessel by which his word is carried out..it's ran using the holy spirit, Jehovah's active force.. so so if u truly believe in what you've been taught, u know that the elders do not act on there own knowledge and understanding.. they don't decide when u come back, you do.. we can't see the heart and elders don't pretend they can.. so they rely on the holy spirit to guide them to make that decision of when someone is truly repented.. I ask u this..do u believe the Bible was wrote by men using God's holy spirit or just men who observed and recorded?

 

[texasdaking88]

@theneoshell ...with that said, elders are not perfect so there is always a possibility that they might rely on there personal understanding @ times, but that's y there is more than one, so if one see something like that is going on, they can stop it.. elders are not over the congregation like say a pastor is over his church.. the congregation belongs to Jesus as it says in thee Bible but the elders are just there to shepherd it.. @ the end of the day they are nothing but servants and will tell u so.. I've seen elders have to step down on plenty of occasions becuez they developed a arrogant attitude.. it's a humbling experience but a very needed one.. u think about the Bible and king Saul.. he was a king but @ first he viewed himself as nothing but a servant.. but what happened?? He started feeling himself and hated David becuz God picked him to be next..and @ the end of the day, he died a humbled man becuz of the punishment he received for developing that type of attitude.. a punishment but a needed one

 

[KLICHE]

I had a JW knock few years back. Handed me a pamphlet I accepted it as was more than happy to read up on it. I told them I was reading material on the Quran and Allah, and offered to share with them some printouts I'd gotten from friends and they declined and left looking disgruntled.