I'm tired of the old Legendary rappers gettin way more credit than they deserve...!

[KCsGreatest]

1. Eminem

2. Jay Z

3. 2pac

4. Biggie

5. Outkast (yes, I know its a group, but both lyrical, and they are among the top in all the categories below that represent GOAT status)

GOAT status should include these categories. Lyrics, world play, cadence, metaphors, versatility, multisyllables,originality, cultural and societal impact, and iconic status.

If you look at these categories, these are the only 4 that can be truly considered, and you shouldnt hold Ems skin color against him, he has all of these. Although Rakim, G Rap, Run Dmc, Nas, and some of the others have some of these things, they still dont fall into GOAT status, but they should still get their due as some of the top artists of all time. And although there is better lyricisits nowadays as the game has evolved, there is MANY more wack MCs and groups, then there was back in the day, and not even this list of the best of today would be anywhere without the old school. Respect should be given regardless of era. Ive seen every era, and this is my opinion.

 

[Kwan Dai]

1. Eminem
2. Jay Z
3. 2pac
4. Biggie
5. Outkast (yes, I know its a group, but both lyrical, and they are among the top in all the categories below that represent GOAT status)

GOAT status should include these categories. Lyrics, world play, cadence, metaphors, versatility, multisyllables,originality, cultural and societal impact, and iconic status.
If you look at these categories, these are the only 4 that can be truly considered, and you shouldnt hold Ems skin color against him, he has all of these. Although Rakim, G Rap, Run Dmc, Nas, and some of the others have some of these things, they still dont fall into GOAT status, but they should still get their due as some of the top artists of all time. And although there is better lyricisits nowadays as the game has evolved, there is MANY more wack MCs and groups, then there was back in the day, and not even this list of the best of today would be anywhere without the old school. Respect should be given regardless of era. Ive seen every era, and this is my opinion.

Thank the Heavens it is only your opinion.

 

[NothingButTheTruth]

1. Eminem
2. Jay Z
3. 2pac
4. Biggie
5. Outkast (yes, I know its a group, but both lyrical, and they are among the top in all the categories below that represent GOAT status)

GOAT status should include these categories. Lyrics, world play, cadence, metaphors, versatility, multisyllables,originality, cultural and societal impact, and iconic status.
If you look at these categories, these are the only 4 that can be truly considered, and you shouldnt hold Ems skin color against him, he has all of these. Although Rakim, G Rap, Run Dmc, Nas, and some of the others have some of these things, they still dont fall into GOAT status, but they should still get their due as some of the top artists of all time. And although there is better lyricisits nowadays as the game has evolved, there is MANY more wack MCs and groups, then there was back in the day, and not even this list of the best of today would be anywhere without the old school. Respect should be given regardless of era. Ive seen every era, and this is my opinion.

All that lyrical shit is subjective, because you guys swear Rapper A is lyrical, but to me they're ass cheeks and vice versa.

Also, you forgot the 2 most important things, catalog and longevity. Add that in and Em is removed with the quickness- no catalog or longevity, JayZ is removed pretty quickly due to his terrible comeback aka catalog, Biggie is removed with his laughable 2 albums, Outkast is a group, so now you just have Pac, but how does Pac stand up against the other hip-hop giants?

...

Then Nas gets added pretty quickly. He's a top 5 lyricist to EVERYONE. He has one of the top catalogs (Illmatic, IWW, Stillmatic, Lost Tapes, Untitled etc.). He's been in the game 20 years. He shredded the guy who a lot of y'all think is GOAT level in JayZ with ether. He was doing his thing heavy DURING Pac and Biggie's success, who a lot of consider gods of hip-hop for some reason (unlike some people who had to wait till those 2 died to get put on) etc.

Then add the rest in a similar way. People like Common (lyricism, catalog, and longevity), Ghostface(lyricism, catalog, longevity) etc.

 

[Kwan Dai]

[video=youtube;C9DNcOBZj4Y]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=C9DNcOBZj4Y&feature=player_embedded[/video]

interesting video

Nice Drop. Props for sure.

 

[KCsGreatest]

How can you argue? Im 36. Ive seen every era. I own thousands of albums. Just because of someones skin color, or the topics he touches might not be your cup of tea or something you personally relate to does not disqualify them from GOAT status. I used all of these categories which I think make up a great MC. The MCs on this list HAVE ALL OF THEM. You cannot say that for anyone else. Yes, Nas is a great lyricist, but he does not have the impact of the others outside of the inner circle of hip hop. Rakim and G Rap, yes, they were the first true lyricists, and maybe since hip hop was continuing to grow and is not where it is today, maybe they get slighted for not having the impact. You release them unheard of, and fresh today, they probably make the list, and if it was a top ten they would be there. Run DMC like the original poster was complaining about, they brought hip hop to the world, but they are not lyricists, but they are original and fresh. Also, alot of so called hip hops fans hold against an artist for selling millions of records, or getting radio play, and yada yada. You know why, cuz their popular, people like their music, that shouldnt be held against them. I like the underground to, but that doesnt mean something in the mainstream isnt hip hop or worth consideration, thats just simple minded and stupid. And if you want to talk independent or underground, the king is Tech N9ne, and with more exposure he could definately be on this list as he has all these things in the categories I listed. And if I had to choose someone to grab the torch nowadays, you have to look no further then Lupe Fiasco, he is the best new school MC there is. So people who are close minded, or dont know the past present or future, or have racial hatred shouldnt hae their opinions even expressed. Its not about color, new or old school, underground or mainstream, its about what makes a GOAT MC, and this list and the people in it have ALL of them!

 

[Kwan Dai]

All that lyrical shit is subjective, because you guys swear Rapper A is lyrical, but to me they're ass cheeks and vice versa.

Also, you forgot the 2 most important things, catalog and longevity. Add that in and Em is removed with the quickness- no catalog or longevity, JayZ is removed pretty quickly due to his terrible comeback aka catalog, Biggie is removed with his laughable 2 albums, Outkast is a group, so now you just have Pac, but how does Pac stand up against the other hip-hop giants?

...

Then Nas gets added pretty quickly. He's a top 5 lyricist to EVERYONE. He has one of the top catalogs (Illmatic, IWW, Stillmatic, Lost Tapes, Untitled etc.). He's been in the game 20 years. He shredded the guy who a lot of y'all think is GOAT level in JayZ with ether. He was doing his thing heavy DURING Pac and Biggie's success, who a lot of consider gods of hip-hop for some reason (unlike some people who had to wait till those 2 died to get put on) etc.

Then add the rest in a similar way. People like Common (lyricism, catalog, and longevity), Ghostface(lyricism, catalog, longevity) etc.

Excellent rebuttal. However,I don't even know why you wasted your time responding to a totally subjective and more importantly biased post..

 

[Kwan Dai]

How can you argue? Im 36. Ive seen every era. I own thousands of albums. Just because of someones skin color, or the topics he touches might not be your cup of tea or something you personally relate to does not disqualify them from GOAT status. I used all of these categories which I think make up a great MC. The MCs on this list HAVE ALL OF THEM. You cannot say that for anyone else. Yes, Nas is a great lyricist, but he does not have the impact of the others outside of the inner circle of hip hop. Rakim and G Rap, yes, they were the first true lyricists, and maybe since hip hop was continuing to grow and is not where it is today, maybe they get slighted for not having the impact. You release them unheard of, and fresh today, they probably make the list, and if it was a top ten they would be there. Run DMC like the original poster was complaining about, they brought hip hop to the world, but they are not lyricists, but they are original and fresh. Also, alot of so called hip hops fans hold against an artist for selling millions of records, or getting radio play, and yada yada. You know why, cuz their popular, people like their music, that shouldnt be held against them. I like the underground to, but that doesnt mean something in the mainstream isnt hip hop or worth consideration, thats just simple minded and stupid. And if you want to talk independent or underground, the king is Tech N9ne, and with more exposure he could definately be on this list as he has all these things in the categories I listed. And if I had to choose someone to grab the torch nowadays, you have to look no further then Lupe Fiasco, he is the best new school MC there is. So people who are close minded, or dont know the past present or future, or have racial hatred shouldnt hae their opinions even expressed. Its not about color, new or old school, underground or mainstream, its about what makes a GOAT MC, and this list and the people in it have ALL of them!

Are you done forcing your opinion down people throats. Your personal GOAT lists have nothing to do with the thread topic. If you want to discuss GOAT status or your fondling of EM's penis. Please start another thread.

 

[KCsGreatest]

All that lyrical shit is subjective, because you guys swear Rapper A is lyrical, but to me they're ass cheeks and vice versa.

Also, you forgot the 2 most important things, catalog and longevity. Add that in and Em is removed with the quickness- no catalog or longevity, JayZ is removed pretty quickly due to his terrible comeback aka catalog, Biggie is removed with his laughable 2 albums, Outkast is a group, so now you just have Pac, but how does Pac stand up against the other hip-hop giants?

...

Then Nas gets added pretty quickly. He's a top 5 lyricist to EVERYONE. He has one of the top catalogs (Illmatic, IWW, Stillmatic, Lost Tapes, Untitled etc.). He's been in the game 20 years. He shredded the guy who a lot of y'all think is GOAT level in JayZ with ether. He was doing his thing heavy DURING Pac and Biggie's success, who a lot of consider gods of hip-hop for some reason (unlike some people who had to wait till those 2 died to get put on) etc.

Then add the rest in a similar way. People like Common (lyricism, catalog, and longevity), Ghostface(lyricism, catalog, longevity) etc.

I love Commin and Ghostface, and consider some of the best as well. As far as catalog, we can add that, but I dont think you can take anyone off that list because of catalog, and Biggie Died, we didnt see what he had left, but he left two of the best albums ever. Also, longevity, they all have that. And there is rappers that are wack still making records and selling records, Vanilla Ice still raps. Point proven. Just cuz they have a handful of albums, does not give them longevity. And how does EM not have a catalog. OK, throw out Encore, everyone stumbles on at least one record. No one you named didnt have a so so record. Dare I meantion Commons experimental album lol Or Nas who was forgotten about until ETHER. And youre right, he ate him on that record. But thats one record. But look at American Gangster and the song he was on with Jay . Jay made that song, and Nas was out of place and outdone. Nas has the respect on the inside, but none of the outside. Hip hop reaches everyone, and should, and Nas, even though a top ten MC, is nowhere near this list or falls into all these categories. I took all these categories, and these are the MCs that are left, and can be considered in all of them. None of these other MCs can. And those saying Lil Wayne is anywhere near any of these MCs, or even Nas or some that are close, you guys are really ate up. Wayne has gotten better, but he will never be anywhere close on this list, and anyone believing hes GOAT is just a dick rider. Dont get me wrong, I like his music, but hes not a GOAT mc.

 

[KCsGreatest]

Are you done forcing your opinion down people throats. Your personal GOAT lists have nothing to do with the thread topic. If you want to discuss GOAT status or your fondling of EM's penis. Please start another thread.

Biast post? The Bias is how Em doesnt get his respect because he is white. But you wanna cry about racism in other areas, when blacks are no diffrent, and this is proof. Only reason I gave Em the nod over Jay Z is because on Renegade, Em outshined Jay by a mile. But you could flip flop either of them as the GOAT. And it does have to do with the thread, because the guy is bashing Great MCs, and the old school, when the original poster is obviously a moron . lol

 

[RuffDraft]

SMH @ this being a front page thread.

Do new schoolers need to be put on that much to understand the concept that most rappers in the mainstream couldn't rap their way out of a cypher…???

We make so many great threads here and they put shine on this…??? I would have closed this thread had it been a few pages in; read up on your 'ish. BDK and G Rap are still quoted by your favourite rappers… not to mention the obvious borrowing that goes on with the more well-known artists of old (who actually know and respect because they studied the game and the moves of the older emcee's to be put on themselves).

Hip hop started out in the parks, have some respect for the DJ's and eventual emcee's who put shine on hip hop outside of their neighbourhoods. To the classic albums like LL Cool J's B.A.D album, which still creates the formula's to all mainstream albums today.

 

[Jalla]

Whats POPPIN?

i saw this bullshit talk and i had to register! because damn!

Most of your peepz talk crap here for real! I see some people taggin rappers by lyrics they did, worldwide releases, bla bla, bla bla, etc etc..

The only rapper that did it and made it! was PAC! he worked his ass more off then any rapper would do nowadays!

Rappers like lil wayne, whiz, t.i., etc, etc, etc, etc, have mouthdiarree! talk crap and make crap!

im out! this is a wrap!

 

[NothingButTheTruth]

I love Commin and Ghostface, and consider some of the best as well. As far as catalog, we can add that, but I dont think you can take anyone off that list because of catalog, and Biggie Died, we didnt see what he had left, but he left two of the best albums ever. Also, longevity, they all have that. And there is rappers that are wack still making records and selling records, Vanilla Ice still raps. Point proven. Just cuz they have a handful of albums, does not give them longevity. And how does EM not have a catalog. OK, throw out Encore, everyone stumbles on at least one record. No one you named didnt have a so so record. Dare I meantion Commons experimental album lol Or Nas who was forgotten about until ETHER. And youre right, he ate him on that record. But thats one record. But look at American Gangster and the song he was on with Jay . Jay made that song, and Nas was out of place and outdone. Nas has the respect on the inside, but none of the outside. Hip hop reaches everyone, and should, and Nas, even though a top ten MC, is nowhere near this list or falls into all these categories. I took all these categories, and these are the MCs that are left, and can be considered in all of them. None of these other MCs can. And those saying Lil Wayne is anywhere near any of these MCs, or even Nas or some that are close, you guys are really ate up. Wayne has gotten better, but he will never be anywhere close on this list, and anyone believing hes GOAT is just a dick rider. Dont get me wrong, I like his music, but hes not a GOAT mc.

If you don't add catalog into the equation, then the lists become too biased (which isn't bad, but still). Then you're just basing your shit off of what you perceive as lyricism. In that case someone's list might look like:

Canibus
MF Doom
Tech N9ne
Killah Priest
GZA

depending on your definition of lyricism is.

If you're not going to include catalog, then in your opinion what are the basic standards for being a great? Like I said earlier, they should be longevity, meaning 15+ years, catalog showing songwriting ability, creativity, raw lyricism, storytelling, introspective tracks etc., and lyricism in general. Also, intangibles like, when so and so raps does he command attention? Does he paint pictures with his rhymes? Can he perform well and get the crowd moving? Does he have any anthems? Can he battle rap? Can he rap off the dome? Could you use his rhymes as a poem? Is his style ORIGINAL or did he bite off of someone completely (this is where you would lose Jay and Em completely) etc.

Em got his style from Masta Ace.

[video=youtube;PW1XOy3qY7o]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PW1XOy3qY7o[/video]

Jay from Biggie.

[video=youtube;RqScH2CfYTg]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RqScH2CfYTg[/video]

 

The user and all related content has been deleted.

 

[S2J]

Whats POPPIN?

i saw this bullshit talk and i had to register! because damn!

Most of your peepz talk crap here for real! I see some people taggin rappers by lyrics they did, worldwide releases, bla bla, bla bla, etc etc..

The only rapper that did it and made it! was PAC! he worked his ass more off then any rapper would do nowadays!

Rappers like lil wayne, whiz, t.i., etc, etc, etc, etc, have mouthdiarree! talk crap and make crap!

im out! this is a wrap!

Allhiphop.com won.

Every last man...to a tee...who replied debating t/s is WORSE than the t/s

You dont pay attention to threads like this! 250+ posts? Really? smh

 

[NothingButTheTruth]

Biast post? The Bias is how Em doesnt get his respect because he is white. But you wanna cry about racism in other areas, when blacks are no diffrent, and this is proof. Only reason I gave Em the nod over Jay Z is because on Renegade, Em outshined Jay by a mile. But you could flip flop either of them as the GOAT. And it does have to do with the thread, because the guy is bashing Great MCs, and the old school, when the original poster is obviously a moron . lol

Blacks can't really be racist against white people, especially in the subject we're talking about. It's more of a, we've seen it happen before, so we'll be ready this time. You know, the same way it happened with Elvis and The Rolling Stones, and now how you guys are trying to do it with Eminem.

Also, you're saying Em doesn't get respect, but I could've sworn he does well on the charts and the record sales. If you're talking about black people respecting him, then you're right. Em doesn't get respect, but that's because he does nothing for most of us. We see right through that whole gimmick thing.

Also, JayZ beat Em on renegade imo.

 

[TheEnigma]

Blacks can't really be racist against white people, especially in the subject we're talking about. It's more of a, we've seen it happen before, so we'll be ready this time. You know, the same way it happened with Elvis and The Rolling Stones, and now how you guys are trying to do it with Eminem.

Also, you're saying Em doesn't get respect, but I could've sworn he does well on the charts and the record sales. If you're talking about black people respecting him, then you're right. Em doesn't get respect, but that's because he does nothing for most of us. We see right through that whole gimmick thing.

Also, JayZ beat Em on renegade imo.

Why do people think Eminem is a gimmick. Em's just...Em. Oh and Jay-Z was shit on in Renegade.

 

[nujerz84]

ok....I listened to half of that Big Pun's best flows or w/e its called and I wont front dude was spittin acid on a couple joints.. I still wouldnt put him in Jay-Z's class for shyt tho but he was a little better than I said.. he aint wack but he's not on Hova level.

I can drop Cam jewels on this thread like I said and blow this up but yall dont give respect when yall proven wrong so Im not gonna waste my time when I got pussy next to me...

I havent been proven wrong at all with regards to how wack Cam lyrically is in comparison to Pun... Keep trying homie..

 

[nujerz84]

If you don't add catalog into the equation, then the lists become too biased (which isn't bad, but still). Then you're just basing your shit off of what you perceive as lyricism. In that case someone's list might look like:

Canibus
MF Doom
Tech N9ne
Killah Priest
GZA

depending on your definition of lyricism is.

If you're not going to include catalog, then in your opinion what are the basic standards for being a great? Like I said earlier, they should be longevity, meaning 15+ years, catalog showing songwriting ability, creativity, raw lyricism, storytelling, introspective tracks etc., and lyricism in general. Also, intangibles like, when so and so raps does he command attention? Does he paint pictures with his rhymes? Can he perform well and get the crowd moving? Does he have any anthems? Can he battle rap? Can he rap off the dome? Could you use his rhymes as a poem? Is his style ORIGINAL or did he bite off of someone completely (this is where you would lose Jay and Em completely) etc.

Jay, Pun (minus longevity dude died) and Em have most if not all those aspects...

 

The user and all related content has been deleted.

 

[shtoopid]

i stopped reading after you said big pun was wack and sugerhill gang get "mad props for goat status"