Gay Marriage or Plural Marriage Which do you Support???

[Plutarch]

Btw, the typo is Leviticus 22:11 which i indeed copy and pasted,

Oh ok, thanks for the clarification.

But, I'm sure you knew that since you are versed in the bible.

Hehe, thanks for the backhanded compliment.

I don't give a damn how you should treat your slaves.

??? I don’t know where this is coming from or have any idea what specific response, if any, this is for any of what I said, so not much I can do here. But I will say that specific parts of your responses, and hell part of this whole debate, is about the treatment of slaves, so…

You shouldn't have slaves in the first place.

Agreed, but then again, we don’t live in a perfect world. We live in a harsh world, and so harsh realities WILL exist.

Also, the new testament is a continuation of the old testament, not a fix.

Who said it was fix? Did I? I’ll have to go check.

Jesus came to fulfill the law of Moses

Yes, Moses was ONE of the prophets Jesus came to “fulfill.” But I hope that by saying that “Jesus came to fulfill the law of Moses,” you’re not somehow implying that Jesus came to uphold the evils of slavery. If so, that’s a bit of stretch imo. If not, then I’m not understanding the point of your bringing up Jesus and Moses, sorry.

Mathew 5:17: "Do not think that I have come to abolish the Law or the Prophets; I have not come to abolish them but to fulfill them."

Yes…

If anything, this illuminates that using a book that intended to justify events that were normal back then doesn't apply now just like the book itself.

Ok, here is what I think that you are saying (I just want to be sure I’m not misunderstanding you): The Bible justifies slavery in the old times, and we have moved far away from the old times, so the Bible is outdated and irrelevant.

1. The Bible does not justify slavery. I think that I have already responded to all claims that suggest this. I also want to reemphasize that there is a difference between acknowledging/realizing slavery and justifying/supporting slavery. The Bible does the former, but does not do the latter. I hope that I have given sufficient explanation and evidence to prove this.

2. Does the Bible refer to specific things (like certain ancient cultures) that are not with us today? Of course, the Bible wasn’t written in 2012. Does the Bible refer to nonspecific things that ARE with us today? Of course, the Bible isn’t all about the Israelites and their culture. There are thousands of timeless passages throughout the Bible that are very relevant today. So no, I would say that the Bible (and many other ancient and religious scripture) very much applies to “modern times.”

 

[Jabu_Rule]

Didn't read. Back to talking about gays and freaks getting married /no homo..

 

[kingblaze84]

Didn't read. Back to talking about gays and freaks getting married /no homo..

I read Plutarch's posts. He basically ignored how the Bible supports the evil practice of slavery and excused the various evils of it. He also said the Bible does not encourage chattel slavery but completely ignored how the Bible DOES NOT speak against it either. He never gave a good explanation for why the Bible supports the beating of slaves, perhaps he is naive on his own holy book? Most Christians do not see the extreme evil of slavery, and it's easy to see why slavery lasted so long in America. Christians like Plutarch made excuses for evil for 300 plus years, I personally never will. The Bible is a piece of shit trashy book no better than Mein Kampf or a child molestor's manifesto. The Bible can suck my big Black dick, fuck that book. And for the record, fuck any religion that says slavery is okay. That goes for Judaism as well.

 

[kingblaze84]

What does the Bible say about beating slaves? It says you can beat both male and female slaves with a rod so hard that as long as they don't die right away you are cleared of any wrong doing.

When a man strikes his male or female slave with a rod so hard that the slave dies under his hand, he shall be punished. If, however, the slave survives for a day or two, he is not to be punished, since the slave is his own property. (Exodus 21:20-21 NAB)

You would think that Jesus and the New Testament would have a different view of slavery, but slavery is still approved of in the New Testament, as the following passages show.

Slaves, obey your earthly masters with deep respect and fear. Serve them sincerely as you would serve Christ. (Ephesians 6:5 NLT)

----The Bible sucks dick, I'll spit on one next time I see one.

 

[akomax]

The break down of the family unit will be completed when sodomite marriage is the law of the land. Society will finally be at it's breaking point when this is consummated. The very first words that God spoke to mankind, (Be fruitful, multiply, and fill the earth) will be utterly voided and violated when sodomite marriage becomes legalized in all 50 states. This will usher in the complete break down of society and usher in Gods judgment upon Babylon the Great.

The legalization of sodomite marriage in ALL 50 states will be 1 of the final 2 nails in Babylons coffin. I would just advise anybody who is reading this and who is still alive when that day comes, to do these 5 things:

1) Accept the Lord Jesus Christ as your Lord and Savior

2) Repent of your sins and cry out for mercy

3) Read Genesis 18-19

4) Study Jeremiah 50-51, Revelation 17-18, Isaiah 13-14 and 47

5) Flee out of Babylon if you live in her.

I can only give directions, now it's up to you to follow them. The day that America is totally destroyed will be like any other day. It will be a day just like today. People will be going to work, people will be going to school, people will be building, people will be planting, people will be shopping, people will be playing, but suddenly destruction will come from the north and anybody who is still living within Babylons borders will be totally annihilated by the nuclear firestorm that will be unleashed upon the whole land. The destruction will be swift (1 hour), complete, and catastrophic. May you be wise in discerning the times in which we now live. Amen.

Nigga in the old testament had more then one wive but your gonna write a titangraphy talking about it wasn't accepted and some other jibberish that im not going to respond to

I just want to add that just because polygamy existed in the Old Testament doesnt mean that it was accepted and/or supported. Polygamy was a cultural and political thing, not a Christian thing. In fact, the Bible condemns it in both the Old Testament and the New.

proof ?

 

[Plutarch]

Didn't read. Back to talking about gays and freaks getting married /no homo..

Heh and meh.

 

[Plutarch]

I read Plutarch's posts.

Oh, cool, thanks.

He basically ignored how the Bible supports the evil practice of slavery and excused the various evils of it.

*long, deep sigh + facepalm* I didn't ignore or excuse anything imo. I simply responded to EVERYTHING FuriousOne said in his post, and I think that I did an alright job, so I don't see your point. But if you think that I ignored anything, then please let me know, and I'll clarify. Or better yet, you can actually respond to what I posted. I don't think that FuriousOne will mind.

He also said the Bible does not encourage chattel slavery but completely ignored how the Bible DOES NOT speak against it either.

Really??? I did that? Heh, c'mon bruh. Please reread my posts, and try to put your emotions and bias aside and look at what I said with an impartial perspective because I could've sworn that I acknowledged the Bible not speaking against slavery multiple times.

He never gave a good explanation for why the Bible supports the beating of slaves,

1. To my knowledge, it was never established that the Bible supports the beating of slaves. Also, I don't agree with that premise.

And more importantly 2. This was never a main topic of discussion between FuriousOne and me. What your main, specific topic of interests are weren't exactly the same as the ones we were talking about, so it's only logical that I didn't answer or respond to your questions. Because I was responding to Furious One, not you.

perhaps he is naive on his own holy book?

Perhaps not?

Most Christians do not see the extreme evil of slavery,

What? Are you saying that most Christians don't see anything evil about slavery? That's a little odd...

and it's easy to see why slavery lasted so long in America.

Slavery lasted so long in America because of Christians? Really? Lol, what a naive thing to say.

Christians like Plutarch made excuses for evil for 300 plus years, I personally never will. The Bible is a piece of shit trashy book no better than Mein Kampf or a child molestor's manifesto. The Bible can suck my big Black dick, fuck that book. And for the record, fuck any religion that says slavery is okay. That goes for Judaism as well.

Lol, you either have personal problems or you're trolling. I don't mind either though. Still entertaining.

 

[Plutarch]

The break down of the family unit will be completed when sodomite marriage is the law of the land. Society will finally be at it's breaking point when this is consummated. The very first words that God spoke to mankind, (Be fruitful, multiply, and fill the earth) will be utterly voided and violated when sodomite marriage becomes legalized in all 50 states. This will usher in the complete break down of society and usher in Gods judgment upon Babylon the Great.

The legalization of sodomite marriage in ALL 50 states will be 1 of the final 2 nails in Babylons coffin. I would just advise anybody who is reading this and who is still alive when that day comes, to do these 5 things:

1) Accept the Lord Jesus Christ as your Lord and Savior

2) Repent of your sins and cry out for mercy

3) Read Genesis 18-19

4) Study Jeremiah 50-51, Revelation 17-18, Isaiah 13-14 and 47

5) Flee out of Babylon if you live in her.

I can only give directions, now it's up to you to follow them. The day that America is totally destroyed will be like any other day. It will be a day just like today. People will be going to work, people will be going to school, people will be building, people will be planting, people will be shopping, people will be playing, but suddenly destruction will come from the north and anybody who is still living within Babylons borders will be totally annihilated by the nuclear firestorm that will be unleashed upon the whole land. The destruction will be swift (1 hour), complete, and catastrophic. May you be wise in discerning the times in which we now live. Amen.

Nigga in the old testament had more then one wive but your gonna write a titangraphy talking about it wasn't accepted and some other jibberish that im not going to respond to

I just want to add that just because polygamy existed in the Old Testament doesnt mean that it was accepted and/or supported. Polygamy was a cultural and political thing, not a Christian thing. In fact, the Bible condemns it in both the Old Testament and the New.

proof ?

Sure.

1. Deuteronomy 17:17 - "He must not take many wives, or his heart will be led astray." Apparently, this was some kind of mandate from God to describe an ideal and godly king, so I can understand any possible complications or different interpretations with the verse.

2. King Solomon apparently never read Deut. 17:17. He had multiple wives, and they all helped destroy him and his kingdom.

3. It might also be said that God laid the foundation for marriage between one man and one woman in Genesis.

 

[kingblaze84]

Plutarch, you are indeed very naive when it comes to the evil trashy book known as the Bible. I went to Catholic school for 10 years, and while I enjoyed those years, my respect for the Bible went down to the point where I damn near became an atheist. In fact, I would rather someone be an atheist then support a piece of shit religion like Christianity. In fact, here are some verses I would like you to explain that come directly from the (man made) Bible......

When a man strikes his male or female slave with a rod so hard that the slave dies under his hand, he shall be punished. If, however, the slave survives for a day or two, he is not to be punished, since the slave is his own property. (Exodus 21:20-21 NAB)

Slaves, obey your earthly masters with deep respect and fear. Serve them sincerely as you would serve Christ. (Ephesians 6:5 NLT)

Christians who are slaves should give their masters full respect so that the name of God and his teaching will not be shamed. If your master is a Christian, that is no excuse for being disrespectful. You should work all the harder because you are helping another believer by your efforts. Teach these truths, Timothy, and encourage everyone to obey them. (1 Timothy 6:1-2 NLT)

----yeah Plutarch, please explain why your book would support these passages. I guess sex slaves just had to accept what their masters were doing to them? I guess families just had to accept their brothers, sisters, fathers, and mothers being forcefully separated and sold off like cattle? The Bible excuses the beating and subjugation of slaves. There is a reason Christianity has almost zero respect these days, and good riddance.

 

[kingblaze84]

Here is a great website that shows how and why the Bible is one of the most evil books ever written. The website notes famous Christians include Hitler, Christopher Columbus, King Ferdinand and Isabella of Spain, and Sir Francis Drake, all disgusting human beings THAT ALL SUPPORTED SLAVERY. What a coincidence......damn Plutarch, you really shouldn't have brought Christianity into this discussion, everyone here knows how I feel about Christianity LOL.....
http://www.vexen.co.uk/religion/christianity_evilgod.html

If anyone has the balls to say the Bible is a good book, I highly recommend they read this website. The Bible is man made and has zero divine inspiration. If there is divine inspiration, it is from Satan himself. Only a demon would support slavery, sexism, and genocide; things all whole heartedly.

I will go as far to say that I consider all Christians devil worshippers. Anyone who thinks I am wrong has obviously not studied the Bible long enough.

 

[zombie]

More like the most misunderstood book of all time. That website is loaded with bullshit .people do not understand the christian god. He has no problem with killing it's murder he does not like. every death ordered by god in the O.T WAS A GOOD THING AND HAD A PURPOSE. humans have a small life and a small time on earth so many do not understand god's long term planning.

 

[kingblaze84]

More like the most misunderstood book of all time. That website is loaded with bullshit .people do not understand the christian god. He has no problem with killing it's murder he does not like. every death ordered by god in the O.T WAS A GOOD THING AND HAD A PURPOSE. humans have a small life and a small time on earth so many do not understand god's long term planning.

God is a genocidal sicko maniac in the Old Testament. What kind of all loving God would kill innocent children? The sick twisted Biblical god makes Adam Lanza look like Mother Teresa. The website is filled with truth and as a matter of fact shows many verses from the evil book known as the Bible which proves what a mean cocksucker the Bible god is. People don't want to understand the christian god because the christian god is a demon and makes Hitler look like a good man. You can't prove me wrong because the Bible itself says god creates and supports evil.

If you worship the biblical god you are worshipping a demon. Enjoy knowing that fact, I'll enjoy pissing on the Bible next time I have a chance.

 

[kingblaze84]

Zombie, do you feel beating slaves is a good thing? If so, you are a good Christian, because that is what your piece of shit book advocates. Along with murder, genocide, and slavery itself. You are a devil worshipper bruh.

 

[zombie]

More like the most misunderstood book of all time. That website is loaded with bullshit .people do not understand the christian god. He has no problem with killing it's murder he does not like. every death ordered by god in the O.T WAS A GOOD THING AND HAD A PURPOSE. humans have a small life and a small time on earth so many do not understand god's long term planning.

God is a genocidal sicko maniac in the Old Testament. What kind of all loving God would kill innocent children? The sick twisted Biblical god makes Adam Lanza look like Mother Teresa. The website is filled with truth and as a matter of fact shows many verses from the evil book known as the Bible which proves what a mean cocksucker the Bible god is. People don't want to understand the christian god because the christian god is a demon and makes Hitler look like a good man. You can't prove me wrong because the Bible itself says god creates and supports evil.

If you worship the biblical god you are worshipping a demon. Enjoy knowing that fact, I'll enjoy pissing on the Bible next time I have a chance.

God is no genocidal maniac, and no one ever really dies. From a human perspective death is really bad but earthly death is only the removal of the soul from the body, nothing more. God allowed a certain tribe of people to destroy their enemies for his glory and the greater good of mankind. He used the relationship he had with them as an example, as a very effective way to show the rest of humanity his power,love and anger. God is not a pussy, push him too far and he will slaughter you. The people god told israel to destroy were followers of cannites religion. They practiced child sacrifice, religious prostitution beastility and various other forms of wickedness. In ancient times what are you supposed to do with the children of the people you just killed ? The website is filled with misunderstood foolishness. God does not do evil he causes no evil. Evil is not a thing to be made it is a moral jugdment. Now god made evil by making good but he did and does not cause evil. You can the people who made that foolish website don't understand what the bible is saying. The translation of evil in the bible is really the word "woe". and not evil in the way you are thinking about it.

 

[janklow]

I will go as far to say that I consider all Christians devil worshippers. Anyone who thinks I am wrong has obviously not studied the Bible long enough.

one day you might realize that this kind of stuff just undermines an argument.

 

[Plutarch]

Plutarch, you are indeed very naïve when it comes to the evil trashy book known as the Bible.

Well, if it’s any constellation, the feeling’s mutual. I honestly think that YOU are the one that is very comically naïve and ignorant.

I went to Catholic school for 10 years, and while I enjoyed those years, my respect for the Bible went down to the point where I damn near became an atheist. In fact, I would rather someone be an atheist then support a piece of shit religion like Christianity.

Ok, now your whole “I-am-a-raving,-flaming-crazy-person/Christian-hater!” shtick is starting to make sense. You obviously had a bad experience (I don’t want to even know what it was) with religion when you were younger and now you’re bat-shit crazy. You need to let go of your hate man or try some therapy.

In fact, here are some verses I would like you to explain that come directly from the (man made) Bible......

Yes, the Bible is man-made, but the Christian belief in the Holy Spirit (which I don’t expect you to believe or acknowledge) makes quite a difference, but that’s neither her nor there…

When a man strikes his male or female slave with a rod so hard that the slave dies under his hand, he shall be punished. If, however, the slave survives for a day or two, he is not to be punished, since the slave is his own property. (Exodus 21:20-21 NAB)

I’m sorry bruh, but I’d like to think that I already explained this verse. If there’s anything else you want me to add or if you would like to address my explanation, then please feel free to do so. Sorry, I just don’t feel like repeating myself. I think that’s fair right?

Slaves, obey your earthly masters with deep respect and fear. Serve them sincerely as you would serve Christ. (Ephesians 6:5 NLT)

I also already explained this one. Check my response to FuriousOne.

 

[Plutarch]

Christians who are slaves should give their masters full respect so that the name of God and his teaching will not be shamed. If your master is a Christian, that is no excuse for being disrespectful. You should work all the harder because you are helping another believer by your efforts. Teach these truths, Timothy, and encourage everyone to obey them. (1 Timothy 6:1-2 NLT)

This is yet another set of verses that’s very easy to misconstrue, especially if the person reading it is incredibly naïve, ignorant, and hateful (*cou-“kingblaze”-ugh*). But the message is relatively clear (and not pro-slavery per se!) when you consider the perspective of a Christian, and this perspective is NOT conventional or “worldly”. Okay, against my better judgment, I’m going to try to explain these verses even though I already know that you are kind of crazy and that you have your mind already made-up and won’t even change it for the world.

These verses have VERY LITTLE to do with slavery and VERY MUCH to do with spirituality (another Christian perspective that isn’t so easy to understand). I’m assuming that you make such a big deal about slavery in these verses because of your reasonable disgust at the evils of African-American slavery (which once again I would like to say is VERY different from the slavery that existed during the Biblical times) and because you are a WORDLY person. The mentioning of slavery is largely irrelevant and could easily have been replaced with any other kind of worldly evil such as torture or war. And similar verses that deal with other evils are everywhere in the Bible, so slavery is not special. You’re just making it special.

What IS special is the heart of the New Testament’s philosophy, and that is LOVE(/respect). The New Testament doesn’t just tell you to love for your friends. It tells you to love your enemies as well. Like it says – there is “no excuse for being disrespectful.” Whether your enemy is a slave master or sports rival, the New Testament encourages you to love him/her. Now this is obviously unconventional because it’s so easy to hate. That’s human nature. This is one of the reasons why I respect MLK and Gandhi (not as much as MLK though) so much. They essentially conquered a lot of their enemies with love.

Following Christ demands you to make sacrifices. That’s why good Christians are supposed to suffer in many ways. And in this way, I think that makes them incredibly strong and faithful. Like zombie said/implied, your soul, salvation, and faith are much much more important than your worldly values. Death and suffering (whether in slavery, persecution, etc) are things that are far less feared for the good Christian.

Jesus Christ is no Nat Turner or no Frederick Douglass, so no one should expect him to be so. He isn’t limited to specific, worldly evils like slavery. He was more concerned with the heart of all worldly evils (such as hatred, vanity and oppression) and so thus indirectly attacked all evils including slavery. It’s funny how you (in your short-sightedness and bitterness) nitpick the Bible but completely ignore the whole scope and context of things. There are plenty of verses that condemn the evils of slavery.

Also, you ignore the history of the Bible (Timothy, Paul, and others sometimes wrote their letters and work for a specific audience, time, and cultures, and this important fact should not be overlooked) and the world. Once again I have to reiterate that slavery during the Biblical times was VERY different from African-American chattel slavery. First, slavery existed since about the dawn of mankind. And slavery for a much longer time than not, had very little to do with “race” and hatred. It was a fact of life that WE, as human beings, incorporated in OUR culture. So of course, the Bible is going to acknowledge slavery (keep in mind that “acknowledge” is very different from “support”). Second, “slaves” in the Biblical times included a vast majority of different people, including compensated servants, volunteer housekeepers, etc. PLEASE stop equating the slavery of Biblical times with African-American chattel slavery. They are NOT the same thing.

 

[Plutarch]

----yeah Plutarch, please explain why your book would support these passages.

Well…the book doesn’t “support” these passages. Theses passages represent a part of the whole that IS the book.

I guess sex slaves just had to accept what their masters were doing to them? I guess families just had to accept their brothers, sisters, fathers, and mothers being forcefully separated and sold off like cattle?

Heh nice try but no. Once again, the Bible forbids all evils such as oppression, abuse, exploitation, etc. The Bible also has a general respect for law and order. Also, the Bible talks of self-defense as well. Etc, etc, etc. You clearly have no knowledge of the Bible and it’s philosophies (possibly stemming from your lack of respect of said Bible), so I’m not even sure why I’m arguing with you about something that you don’t even care to understand. Meh, I guess it’s still entertaining.

The Bible excuses the beating and subjugation of slaves.

Yeah, you keep on saying the same thing, but I think I already addressed this.

There is a reason Christianity has almost zero respect these days, and good riddance.

For some strange (and possibly egomaniacally) reason, you seem to like equating yourself with the rest of the world. YOU, not the general public, have no respect for Christianity. Christianity is still the largest religion in the world and still has much respect in many parts of the world, even from atheists. Though I could suspect that about half of the world’s Christians are shitty/bad Christians. And apparently, people like you love to latch on and exploit their hypocrisy/evils and then turn around and use them to falsely discredit Christianity. Meh, but it happens.

Plus, you don’t even believe in God, so why should I take anything that you say about Him seriously? You actually hate Him, yet you speak of Him as if he were real which is really weird. You don’t even sound like an atheist. You sound like a bitter Christian who had a bad experience with Christianity when he as a boy. You sound like a fatherless son with daddy issues.

 

[Plutarch]

......damn Plutarch, you really shouldn't have brought Christianity into this discussion, everyone here knows how I feel about Christianity LOL.....

Lol, apparently I didn't get the memo. I knew you were HOC (hard on Christains), but I'm willing to believe that you hate Christians more than you hate Obama (or at least his foreign policy).

Also, that website, although entertaining, is laughable. I should have known that something was up when you cited Hitler as a "famous Christian." LOLOL

 

[kingblaze84]

More like the most misunderstood book of all time. That website is loaded with bullshit .people do not understand the christian god. He has no problem with killing it's murder he does not like. every death ordered by god in the O.T WAS A GOOD THING AND HAD A PURPOSE. humans have a small life and a small time on earth so many do not understand god's long term planning.

God is a genocidal sicko maniac in the Old Testament. What kind of all loving God would kill innocent children? The sick twisted Biblical god makes Adam Lanza look like Mother Teresa. The website is filled with truth and as a matter of fact shows many verses from the evil book known as the Bible which proves what a mean cocksucker the Bible god is. People don't want to understand the christian god because the christian god is a demon and makes Hitler look like a good man. You can't prove me wrong because the Bible itself says god creates and supports evil.

If you worship the biblical god you are worshipping a demon. Enjoy knowing that fact, I'll enjoy pissing on the Bible next time I have a chance.

God is no genocidal maniac, and no one ever really dies. From a human perspective death is really bad but earthly death is only the removal of the soul from the body, nothing more. God allowed a certain tribe of people to destroy their enemies for his glory and the greater good of mankind. He used the relationship he had with them as an example, as a very effective way to show the rest of humanity his power,love and anger. God is not a pussy, push him too far and he will slaughter you. The people god told israel to destroy were followers of cannites religion. They practiced child sacrifice, religious prostitution beastility and various other forms of wickedness. In ancient times what are you supposed to do with the children of the people you just killed ? The website is filled with misunderstood foolishness. God does not do evil he causes no evil. Evil is not a thing to be made it is a moral jugdment. Now god made evil by making good but he did and does not cause evil. You can the people who made that foolish website don't understand what the bible is saying. The translation of evil in the bible is really the word "woe". and not evil in the way you are thinking about it.

LOL whatever helps you sleep at night man. The bottom line is your evil Christian god supports the slaughter of innocnt children and supports the evil practice of slavery. It states it is okay to beat slaves, trade slaves, and buy slaves. That is an extremely evil act and not something I will ever support. I'm not an atheist but the evidence is very clear that the Bible god is one mean evil son of a bitch. Again, to each his own.