Fans of older Ye over new.. Hate growth in an artist or have a legit argument?

[ocelot]

i agree with this...

Kanye is talented enough to make it in the biz with out the gimmicks.
His music doesnt reflect what we all know.
We've seen this nigga flame out on Punkd
We've seen "mr can't tell me nothing riiiii" have a conniption fit several times live.
but look at his words.

these niggas getting mad cause we don't see genius in everything this nigga do, he gets his props from folk, but these niggas wanna get all like, "how dare you not like everything he's ever done?!?!"

this why niggas be looking down on 90's babies, they don't know good shit when they hear and have become tainted by the likes of Will-I-Am

basically... Niggas today is throwing around the word genius when dude is not even living to his potential...
the problem is the kids of today want to have " their guy" for their era and out of desperation they are willing to put anybody at the top to go against Biggie, Pac,Nas, etc...
Kanye is up there but ever since Wayne became #1 in rap Kanye have been putting out music that are just ok... Remember he was supposed to be our U2 mixed with Marvin Gaye

 

[ocelot]

WTF ..... lol so 808's is the same music as CD?? Bruh .....so when he was rocking pink polos he wasn't getting the same flak for not being masculine enough?? Bruh....... you act like kanye wasn't doing that attention grabbing shit on his first album ... "george bush doesnt like black people"?? ...shooting 16 videos for jesus walks?? Alwasys being overly outspoken?? .... Bruh ...this is the same ass nigga ....maybe your just finally growning tired ...but lets not act like he has made some major personality 180 ...thats fiction

I'm talking as far as growth... George Bush thing was him being the voice of black people... It was bigger than music... Pink polo was edgy... But a skirt my nigga?
That's trying to hard... Now if Ye was wearing skirts his whole life then ill give him a pass... Nigga was even wearing that pac outfit on New Years Day... Dude is getting older and is becoming a gimmick...

I'm not saying him being outspoken is a gimmick... That's kanye being kanye... But that nigga wasn't growing with his music until Taylor and Amber came into the picture

 

[JDSTAYWITIT]

I'm talking as far as growth... George Bush thing was him being the voice of black people... It was bigger than music... Pink polo was edgy... But a skirt my nigga?
That's trying to hard... Now if Ye was wearing skirts his whole life then ill give him a pass... Nigga was even wearing that pac outfit on New Years Day... Dude is getting older and is becoming a gimmick...

I'm not saying him being outspoken is a gimmick... That's kanye being kanye... But that nigga wasn't growing with his music until Taylor and Amber came into the picture

So because u know longer admire his fashion sense he's now full blown gimmicky? ................Ok ...

My point about the polos.. was to say kanye has always been on that fashion foward edgy for major hiphop artist hype ... So while you may think the wearing a skirt at a fashion show or wherever was a jump the shark moment I see it as more or less what he has allways been about ...pushing forward things that arn't always accepted in hiphop... U see all these cats rocking nerd glasses after he sported those shits around the time 808's came out....

Secondly his growth musically IMO is unquestioned .... The production style has most definately shifted as early as LR by including Jon brion as a co producer giving his tracks a more lush sound then to Graduation with a more synth infused sound then the complete departure from his producing style on 808's by using no samples which all came together on MBDTF... To me that's the definition of progression you may not like the changes and maybe that's why you don't call it progression but there has no doubt been a shift ....nmusically

Lyrically he is much sharper as a rhymer ... He's honed his introspective off the cuff style and definately progressed as a rhymer from a technical point ... Including different flows ... Wordplay and other for of lyrical competency ...

Content wise ... You can argue he hasn't progressed ... But IMO he started by attacking a wide variation of topics so it's not like he had to transform into a content conscious rapper out of nowhere because he only talked about selling dope or something like that before sonic not mad at the content ... Its him...One thing I will say is he has done a better job at focusig his album on particular topics and not just having them be a bunch of random tracks his last two albums have been themed and that's helped with the cohesion of those efforts which to ms is also a form of progression ..

To add ..the themes of materialism,gratification,vulnerability,honesty,sex,love,mixed with a hint of social/political consciousness are well rounded enough to hold me over as long as you package them different ways every effort.. Which I think he's done

So like I said indot believe these claims of stagnation are valid at all..

 

[usmarin3]

I like everything Ye's put out other than 808s. He's a artist so he could make almost anything sound good or like its got depth to it. But the idea that his current subject matter is growth is a misunderstanding of what it means to grow. Unless yall are talking about growing more shallow?

What are these shallow songs ya'll are talking about? Plus how is it more shallow than say a song like Slow Jams, Gold digger,Addiction,Work Out Plan, Breathe In/Breathe Out.

He has always manage to springle a balance of shallow type songs and deeper records.

 

[makaveli4ever]

Different strokes for diff folks

 

[Focal Point]

as your experiences increase so to does your subject matter, can't rap about the same thngs forever

 

[twentyfivelighters]

He was mad humble back in the day. I remember someone posted a video of him with the Roc pre College Dropout. That's what made his music great to me. I like his newer stuff, but it's just not on par with his past work.

 

[ocelot]

So because u know longer admire his fashion sense he's now full blown gimmicky? ................Ok ...

My point about the polos.. was to say kanye has always been on that fashion foward edgy for major hiphop artist hype ... So while you may think the wearing a skirt at a fashion show or wherever was a jump the shark moment I see it as more or less what he has allways been about ...pushing forward things that arn't always accepted in hiphop... U see all these cats rocking nerd glasses after he sported those shits around the time 808's came out....

Secondly his growth musically IMO is unquestioned .... The production style has most definately shifted as early as LR by including Jon brion as a co producer giving his tracks a more lush sound then to Graduation with a more synth infused sound then the complete departure from his producing style on 808's by using no samples which all came together on MBDTF... To me that's the definition of progression you may not like the changes and maybe that's why you don't call it progression but there has no doubt been a shift ....nmusically

Lyrically he is much sharper as a rhymer ... He's honed his introspective off the cuff style and definately progressed as a rhymer from a technical point ... Including different flows ... Wordplay and other for of lyrical competency ...

Content wise ... You can argue he hasn't progressed ... But IMO he started by attacking a wide variation of topics so it's not like he had to transform into a content conscious rapper out of nowhere because he only talked about selling dope or something like that before sonic not mad at the content ... Its him...One thing I will say is he has done a better job at focusig his album on particular topics and not just having them be a bunch of random tracks his last two albums have been themed and that's helped with the cohesion of those efforts which to ms is also a form of progression ..

To add ..the themes of materialism,gratification,vulnerability,honesty,sex,love,mixed with a hint of social/political consciousness are well rounded enough to hold me over as long as you package them different ways every effort.. Which I think he's done

So like I said indot believe these claims of stagnation are valid at all..

Great points...I'm on my phone so I can't give a proper rebuttal... But ill have one later...

 

[Kame]

Different strokes for diff folks

........................
basically..

but still I kinda think yall just miss the newness of kanye being a rookie
mbdtf is clearly better than cd to me.. even though cd definitely a classic

 

[usmarin3]

He was mad humble back in the day. I remember someone posted a video of him with the Roc pre College Dropout. That's what made his music great to me. I like his newer stuff, but it's just not on par with his past work.

Everyone who fucks with Kanye (Talib,Jay, Mos, Common,etc), says he is the same person now that he was back then. The mainstream just didn't know him like that then to make character judgments.

 

[Kame]

and great post dizzel

 

[twentyfivelighters]

Everyone who fucks with Kanye (Talib,Jay, Mos, Common,etc), says he is the same person now that he was back then. The mainstream just didn't know him like that then to make character judgments.

That makes sense. College Dropout did have some of those club "I got money" songs like WTT. But we need more soul nowadays. It's just not the same to me.

 

[ocelot]

........................

basically..

but still I kinda think yall just miss the newness of kanye being a rookie

mbdtf is clearly better than cd to me.. even though cd definitely a classic

I respect your opinion... But not one of those songs from MBDTF is fucking with All Falls Down... Never Let You Down...or Two Words

Kanye was the voice of the people in the CD days... Now he is talking about himself to much... I guess when you get rich your lifestyle changes and you can't relate anymore

 

[makaveli4ever]

........................

basically..

but still I kinda think yall just miss the newness of kanye being a rookie

mbdtf is clearly better than cd to me.. even though cd definitely a classic

I think you make a good point about rookie kanye and the freshness he brought. I don't really think MBDTF is a classic though. It is good don't get me wrong. Just falls short of classic status. Which I feel like LR is.

 

[Kame]

I respect your opinion... But not one of those songs from MBDTF is fucking with All Falls Down... Never Let You Down...or Two Words
Kanye was the voice of the people in the CD days... Now he is talking about himself to much... I guess when you get rich your lifestyle changes and you can't relate anymore

He supposed to be the voice of himself, what he does is supposed to reflect him
Artists are supposed to be insular and selfish like that, you get the best music that way
I saw CD as opinions he spoke for himself and his experiences, not as imma do this shit for my people music
Why I like MBDTF is that its a lot more insular and reflective, plus the beats and sound are a lot better, musically wise its the culmination of the soul, symphony, polish, and electro of CD,LR, Graduation, and 808's
you can still hear the soul in MBDTF, its just sowed in with a lot more shit

lol and don't front on power, blame game, gorgeous had some of his hardest bars ever rapping wise
Closest he ever made to a moving song like blame game was roses.. and maybe the story on last call, but thats a classic outro right there

 

[ocelot]

Everyone who fucks with Kanye (Talib,Jay, Mos, Common,etc), says he is the same person now that he was back then. The mainstream just didn't know him like that then to make character judgments.

Im sure he is the same person... But musically he's not the same... And for people to throw around genius is insulting to the other musicians
that are geniuses... The john Lennons... The Bob Marleys... Nasirs Jones.... They showed growth in their music threw out their career...

 

[Kame]

Although CD is a classic cause it ushered in a new age...
Musically MBTDF and LR are way better to me

 

[makaveli4ever]

Nice to see most can agree he is a legend.

 

[Kame]

lol at musically the same
you can say as a personality, which id disagree with too, but I could get that
but he's used 4 major different influences on each of his albums, and added them all up with MBDTF

I swear you all just miss bumping CD as freshmen in college or something lol, its so obvious to me mbdtf is better than cd

 

[makaveli4ever]

I would of loved to have seen a Nas and Kanye collab album with the entire album produced by Kanye. No offense to Jay but yeah. I can dream.