Cultural Vultures Are Taking Rap Over

[ghostdog56]

Somebody posted this on my Facebook

You would think a Hip Hop DJ like Grandmaster Flash, DJ Premier, Kid Capri, Bambaattaa, Jazzy Jeff, etc. would be #1.

I'm pretty sure that DJing culture began with Hip Hop, There were DJs before Herc Flash and Bam but I think Hip Hop DJs raised the bar.

Did DJs even use two turntables before hip hop?

 

[D. Morgan]

Lets all hope hip hop will not end up like Rock n Roll did

People been saying that since the 90's when rappers like Vanilla Ice, Krazee White Boy, Tarrie B, MC 900ft Jesus, and Blood of Abraham came out. Still hasn't happened.

Bruh nobody was saying this about the bolded majority of folks didnt know they even existed then or now.

It was a big enough of a concern that The Source had a full write up on it back in the early 90's. I wanna say... 92 or 93.

MC 900ft Jesus was popular as hell on college campuses across the country, especially after this single on his 3rd album


Tairrie B's "Murder She Wrote" charted in Billboard's Hot Rap Singles.


Blood of Abraham's first album "Future Profits" went gold.


And Krazee White Boy's joint "Hey Pussy Eater" could be heard pretty much anywhere that played shit with a Miami Bass-type of sound.


Basically, you're wrong.

Never heard of these people or songs until today 11/27/2017 @ 10:13a.m. est.

 

[The Lonious Monk]

That's not the beginnings tho... hip-hop is older than all those guys careers

How is it cultural appropriation when whites (and latinos for that matter) were a part of it from day one?

Nigga WHITES WERE NOT IN IT FROM DAY ONE they jumped on it to get money and fame. Well after all the arts of hip hop were established

Latinos however that another matter

The core elements of hip hop are B-boying, Grafitti, Turntablism, and Rapping.

NYC's B-boying borrowed heavily from LA's locking. The Campbell Lockers, later named just The Lockers, was a dance crew from LA that originated pop-locking that had among it's original members in 1971(and throughout the 70's) Toni Basil, the white chick that went on to 1-hit wonder fame with the song "Hey Mickey" in '81. Plenty of those old NYC B-Boy crews had whites in their rosters with a lot of them being chicks.

White Graf artists were around in NYC back in the early 70's doing work right alongside Black and Latino artists. Cats like Bil Rock, Min, and a whole slew of other white dudes were very active bombing back in the day and very much integrated into the Graf scene.

DJ's? From the late 70's throughout the 80's there's always been a few white cats though they were always overshadowed by Black and Latino DJ's.

Rappers: This is the sole place where Black men had exclusivity with the formation of hip hop. Granted, white cats were a part of the early hip hop sound of they late 70's and early 80's as the creators of some of hip hop's most memorable joints from the early 80's (like the aforementioned Man Parrish, Gordon Bahary, and Arthur Baker), but as far as MC's go this was the Black man's stronghold until 1983 when the Beastie Boys dropped "Cooky Puss".

In the early 80's there was almost no money in hip hop and the only fame there was to be had was likely local to your immediate area or region. They didn't do it for fame or money, but to say "I did that".

C'mon, bruh. You know damn well muthafuckas like Post Malone and Lil Peep are nothing like the white boys that helped formulate the sound of hip-hop. That shouldn't even need to be stated. Smh.

You're making unnecessary points. No one is talking about proven acts like The Beastie Boys here.

The point I was making was how do you call white rappers "cultural appropriators" when white dudes have been around since the very beginning of hip hop? They were a part of the formation of hip hop as a whole, so there's nothing about their presence that says, to me, they're appropriating the culture. They were b-boys, they were graf aritst, they were dj's they were producers, they were MC's (though admittedly few at first), so how does that work? Are they not entitled to have a claim to hip hop like we do?

C'mon bruh. I think this "culture appropriation" shit is bogus too, but you can't be suggesting that whites have a claim to hip hop in the same way that blacks do just because a couple whites here and there grew up around blacks and took part in what was around them. It's one thing to make that argument about hispanics who lived side by side with blacks and were there at every step. It's another thing completely to say whites have a claim to Hip Hop because this one early B-Boy group had a white chick in it. lol

 

[5 Grand]

Somebody posted this on my Facebook

You would think a Hip Hop DJ like Grandmaster Flash, DJ Premier, Kid Capri, Bambaattaa, Jazzy Jeff, etc. would be #1.

I'm pretty sure that DJing culture began with Hip Hop, There were DJs before Herc Flash and Bam but I think Hip Hop DJs raised the bar.

Did DJs even use two turntables before hip hop?

Yeah there were guys like Pete DJ Jones who used to mix disco/soul records. He'd blend them together so you couldn't tell where one song ended and the next song started.

Another well known DJ was Disco King Mario. He's known for loaning Afrika Bambaattaa his sound system, which puts him before Bambaattaa.

Then there was Infinity Machine. They were a DJ team out of Queens and they had a huge sound system and used to play outdoors in the mid 70s. They're known for mixing disco records.

But out of all the DJs I just named, they played popular dance records whereas the DJs in The Bronx played a different style of music. They mixed the part of the song where the beat breaks down to the drums and they'd juggle the record on two turntables so the drumbeat repeats over and over again. This allowed the MC to talk rhythmically over the beat, which led to rapping as we know it.

So yeah, there were DJs in the 5 boroughs but they weren't doing it like Bronx DJs.

 

[marc123]

Had to google that calvis harris person. Damn! White boy be gettin his paper! WTF

 

[Like Water]

I think part of the difference between those earlier acts listed, plus groups like Beastie Boys, Miilkbone, and even guys like Ill Bill up to Eminem, was that they didn't want to take the culture of hip hop out of the music, they wanted to contribute to the existing infrastructure of the musical sound.

This current wave of "white rappers" are something completely different. They seem to be more about taking the culture of hip hop out of the music and moving the music away from what it was to something unrecognizable.

It's the autotune and the increased element of singing beyond the constraints of the chorus that have led to this new wave of music, where rap has blended into other genres to the point where actually rapping and respecting the infrastructure of the hip hop culture has become an outlier moreso than than the norm when discussing it in the mainstream.

IMO, the artists that sorta moved it in this direction snuck right under a lot of noses. Guys like T-Pain, Akon, Kanye, Drake, Future, Kid Cudi, Chief Keef, etc, all moved the music in a direction where there's now little turning back. It's paved the way for these new artists and this new sound to come in and completely replace the incumbent sound.

Shit...go on reddit (a terrible place for hip hop discussion, by all means), but you'll see in a discussion where someone mentions "Wu-tang", and like 20 other people will leave "ain't nuthin' to fuck wit", and "i invest in Wu-tang Financial", etc. Quippy remarks by about a 100 white boys making a joke regarding the music, which superficially might seem harmless, but underneath it's a continued mockery of everything the Wu stand for, and by extension people who respect hip hop. Especially when you get to the heart of these people's life philosophy of taking nothing serious and mocking everything to remove its power. This is where the power of black culture being able to exert itself in mainstream America starts to lose power, and where this ties in to the larger social issue of racism in America and bigotry. It cuts to the heart of the matter of Blacks being killed by police and presumed guilty by race. It cuts to the bigotry against Muslims by white America and the continued mockery of indigenous peoples through professional sports team names & logos.

White culture is nihilist at heart and has no respect for anything, therefore they will mock to remove power from something they don't like. They shroud that in arguments of "free speech" and "Western values". But ultimately, they stand for nothing, so they seek to take power away from anything that has meaning to others. And the more you resist, the more they insist upon encroaching. Now, obviously not all are like that, nor is this a specific trait necessarily of individuals, but when you take a step back and look at how they operate, this is a philosophical essence.

This is the same nihilistic tendencies that have taken on a whole new meaning with Trumpism and personal realities taking over the communal shared reality. It all stems from nihilistic ideas about society and the world.

This is why I agree with the argument that there is appropriation of hip hop music going on. I can see that and i'm not even black. not even white either (thank God), but it seems pretty clear that these new waves of artists that are attempting to completely change the sound and move rap music out the hip hop cultural sphere and do to it what

they did to rock music. Though I think they are doing so by taking advantage of an opening already created by some prior hip hop artists.

/thread.

 

[twizza 77]

Grandmaster Flash is only black DJ that I know of, DJ all over the world, I would think he would be able to crack that Highest paid DJ list. But then again, There's difference of Club DJ (One Night only), Concert DJ, and DJ with club residency.

Aoki and Tiesto are making half of that money by just having a Vegas Residency at a club.

 

[Revolver Ocelot]

Are they really taking over tho?

No. Just niggas bitching to bitch.

 

[miami cane]

Darrin Kenneth O'Brien (born October 30, 1969), better known by his stage name Snow, is a Canadian reggae artist. He is best known for his 1992 single "Informer", which spent seven weeks at No. 1 on the US Billboard Hot 100.[1]

Shit I have heard worst. Lmao. 7 weeks #1. They cant take Hip Hop.

 

[konceptjones]

That's not the beginnings tho... hip-hop is older than all those guys careers

How is it cultural appropriation when whites (and latinos for that matter) were a part of it from day one?

Nigga WHITES WERE NOT IN IT FROM DAY ONE they jumped on it to get money and fame. Well after all the arts of hip hop were established

Latinos however that another matter

The core elements of hip hop are B-boying, Grafitti, Turntablism, and Rapping.

NYC's B-boying borrowed heavily from LA's locking. The Campbell Lockers, later named just The Lockers, was a dance crew from LA that originated pop-locking that had among it's original members in 1971(and throughout the 70's) Toni Basil, the white chick that went on to 1-hit wonder fame with the song "Hey Mickey" in '81. Plenty of those old NYC B-Boy crews had whites in their rosters with a lot of them being chicks.

White Graf artists were around in NYC back in the early 70's doing work right alongside Black and Latino artists. Cats like Bil Rock, Min, and a whole slew of other white dudes were very active bombing back in the day and very much integrated into the Graf scene.

DJ's? From the late 70's throughout the 80's there's always been a few white cats though they were always overshadowed by Black and Latino DJ's.

Rappers: This is the sole place where Black men had exclusivity with the formation of hip hop. Granted, white cats were a part of the early hip hop sound of they late 70's and early 80's as the creators of some of hip hop's most memorable joints from the early 80's (like the aforementioned Man Parrish, Gordon Bahary, and Arthur Baker), but as far as MC's go this was the Black man's stronghold until 1983 when the Beastie Boys dropped "Cooky Puss".

In the early 80's there was almost no money in hip hop and the only fame there was to be had was likely local to your immediate area or region. They didn't do it for fame or money, but to say "I did that".

C'mon, bruh. You know damn well muthafuckas like Post Malone and Lil Peep are nothing like the white boys that helped formulate the sound of hip-hop. That shouldn't even need to be stated. Smh.

You're making unnecessary points. No one is talking about proven acts like The Beastie Boys here.

The point I was making was how do you call white rappers "cultural appropriators" when white dudes have been around since the very beginning of hip hop? They were a part of the formation of hip hop as a whole, so there's nothing about their presence that says, to me, they're appropriating the culture. They were b-boys, they were graf aritst, they were dj's they were producers, they were MC's (though admittedly few at first), so how does that work? Are they not entitled to have a claim to hip hop like we do?

Because the people that you're talking about are not like the ones everyone is referring to. They are not one and the same.

People like Alchemist, Harry Fraud, Action Bronson, Em... Yeah, they're entitled to have a claim to hip-hop because they put in the work and are proven. They're not caricatures.

If you wanna tell me that Action Bronson and Post Malone should be categorized the same and should have an equal claim, shit, then I don't know what to tell you.

Should Future, Migos, Fetty Wap and not one of these other mumble mush mouf ass "rappers"? 'Cause I can't understand yet how the bullshit "music" they're pushing is being accepted with open arms as a part of "rap".

 

[THE_R_]

I KNEW IT WAS OVER THE DAY I SAW NSYNC ON B.E.T.

 

[D.D.S.]

I KNEW IT WAS OVER THE DAY I SAW NSYNC ON B.E.T.

Lmfao. I remember that. They was on 106 & Park. I was a youngin but I remember thinking why the fuck are they here?

 

[konceptjones]

I KNEW IT WAS OVER THE DAY I SAW NSYNC ON B.E.T.

Lmfao. I remember that. They was on 106 & Park. I was a youngin but I remember thinking why the fuck are they here?

Because "Gone" was playing all over the hood.


Lotta white artists unintentionally crossed over and grabbed Black listeners like that. Think Soundgarden with "Black Hole Sun"; that shit is damned near cookout status.

 

[konceptjones]

^^^^ to my knowledge, which may be limited on this subject, most those djs tour regularly and release full albums if not radio singles in the last couple yrs.

Calvin harris has songs with rihanna, skrillex did a song with asap rocky, aoki (asian?) toured with waka flocka, diplo does songs with everyyyyyyone including hip hop.

Theyre also part of the current wave of modern house music. Where a real house music fan will tell u, its not even house. House music started in chicago but of course anything that gains popularity to extreme degrees never stays put or goes without evolving (or devolving depending how u look at it).

Some of the hip hop djs i know of dont release much new material they get their money touring with artists like dj green lantern and Nas.

Calvin Harris sold the fuck out, that's what he did.

This is Calvin Harris' early work:



I could have easily worked these tracks into one of my DJ sets alongside certain Jeff Mills tracks and especially as I transition from Detroit Techno to House with joints like DJ Deeon's "2-B-Free"

This is Calvin's more recent work:


Garbage... But it sells and it gets him gigs. Dude left his artistic integrity behind and is now making bland, lifeless EDM trash music.

I'm one of those House purists. This shit ain't House. I came up with Chicago House (and Techno, which his music ain't either). House is Jesse Saunders, Phuture, Ralphi Rosario, Lil Louis, Adonis, Fingers, Jack Trax and Trak Records shit. Calvin's early shit as Stouffer was closer to House, kinda like the shit coming out of Italy in the late 90's without all the overboard filter nonsense, it was decent and could get some spins. Not great but not bad and definitely playable. This new shit? Strictly for a paycheck.

 

[Like Water]

That's not the beginnings tho... hip-hop is older than all those guys careers

How is it cultural appropriation when whites (and latinos for that matter) were a part of it from day one?

Nigga WHITES WERE NOT IN IT FROM DAY ONE they jumped on it to get money and fame. Well after all the arts of hip hop were established

Latinos however that another matter

The core elements of hip hop are B-boying, Grafitti, Turntablism, and Rapping.

NYC's B-boying borrowed heavily from LA's locking. The Campbell Lockers, later named just The Lockers, was a dance crew from LA that originated pop-locking that had among it's original members in 1971(and throughout the 70's) Toni Basil, the white chick that went on to 1-hit wonder fame with the song "Hey Mickey" in '81. Plenty of those old NYC B-Boy crews had whites in their rosters with a lot of them being chicks.

White Graf artists were around in NYC back in the early 70's doing work right alongside Black and Latino artists. Cats like Bil Rock, Min, and a whole slew of other white dudes were very active bombing back in the day and very much integrated into the Graf scene.

DJ's? From the late 70's throughout the 80's there's always been a few white cats though they were always overshadowed by Black and Latino DJ's.

Rappers: This is the sole place where Black men had exclusivity with the formation of hip hop. Granted, white cats were a part of the early hip hop sound of they late 70's and early 80's as the creators of some of hip hop's most memorable joints from the early 80's (like the aforementioned Man Parrish, Gordon Bahary, and Arthur Baker), but as far as MC's go this was the Black man's stronghold until 1983 when the Beastie Boys dropped "Cooky Puss".

In the early 80's there was almost no money in hip hop and the only fame there was to be had was likely local to your immediate area or region. They didn't do it for fame or money, but to say "I did that".

C'mon, bruh. You know damn well muthafuckas like Post Malone and Lil Peep are nothing like the white boys that helped formulate the sound of hip-hop. That shouldn't even need to be stated. Smh.

You're making unnecessary points. No one is talking about proven acts like The Beastie Boys here.

The point I was making was how do you call white rappers "cultural appropriators" when white dudes have been around since the very beginning of hip hop? They were a part of the formation of hip hop as a whole, so there's nothing about their presence that says, to me, they're appropriating the culture. They were b-boys, they were graf aritst, they were dj's they were producers, they were MC's (though admittedly few at first), so how does that work? Are they not entitled to have a claim to hip hop like we do?

Because the people that you're talking about are not like the ones everyone is referring to. They are not one and the same.

People like Alchemist, Harry Fraud, Action Bronson, Em... Yeah, they're entitled to have a claim to hip-hop because they put in the work and are proven. They're not caricatures.

If you wanna tell me that Action Bronson and Post Malone should be categorized the same and should have an equal claim, shit, then I don't know what to tell you.

Should Future, Migos, Fetty Wap and not one of these other mumble mush mouf ass "rappers"? 'Cause I can't understand yet how the bullshit "music" they're pushing is being accepted with open arms as a part of "rap".

Migos and Future have their place. And how you gon try and straw man the convo? I'm not talking about Future and nem right now.

Although, it could be argued that the bar has been lowered, in terms of rap being a craft that rappers take serious, since the rise of a few artists. That much is plausible.

But Post Malone is not the only vulture here either. I think Yachty and Uzi are examples of vultures as well. Anybody lookin to make a quick buck, while neglecting the genre, its history, and the skill required to be halfway decent, is a vulture in my eyes.

I just don't say they're stealing culture because they're black. We may not have much, but hip-hop is a part of black culture, for better or worse.

 

[konceptjones]

That's not the beginnings tho... hip-hop is older than all those guys careers

How is it cultural appropriation when whites (and latinos for that matter) were a part of it from day one?

Nigga WHITES WERE NOT IN IT FROM DAY ONE they jumped on it to get money and fame. Well after all the arts of hip hop were established

Latinos however that another matter

The core elements of hip hop are B-boying, Grafitti, Turntablism, and Rapping.

NYC's B-boying borrowed heavily from LA's locking. The Campbell Lockers, later named just The Lockers, was a dance crew from LA that originated pop-locking that had among it's original members in 1971(and throughout the 70's) Toni Basil, the white chick that went on to 1-hit wonder fame with the song "Hey Mickey" in '81. Plenty of those old NYC B-Boy crews had whites in their rosters with a lot of them being chicks.

White Graf artists were around in NYC back in the early 70's doing work right alongside Black and Latino artists. Cats like Bil Rock, Min, and a whole slew of other white dudes were very active bombing back in the day and very much integrated into the Graf scene.

DJ's? From the late 70's throughout the 80's there's always been a few white cats though they were always overshadowed by Black and Latino DJ's.

Rappers: This is the sole place where Black men had exclusivity with the formation of hip hop. Granted, white cats were a part of the early hip hop sound of they late 70's and early 80's as the creators of some of hip hop's most memorable joints from the early 80's (like the aforementioned Man Parrish, Gordon Bahary, and Arthur Baker), but as far as MC's go this was the Black man's stronghold until 1983 when the Beastie Boys dropped "Cooky Puss".

In the early 80's there was almost no money in hip hop and the only fame there was to be had was likely local to your immediate area or region. They didn't do it for fame or money, but to say "I did that".

C'mon, bruh. You know damn well muthafuckas like Post Malone and Lil Peep are nothing like the white boys that helped formulate the sound of hip-hop. That shouldn't even need to be stated. Smh.

You're making unnecessary points. No one is talking about proven acts like The Beastie Boys here.

The point I was making was how do you call white rappers "cultural appropriators" when white dudes have been around since the very beginning of hip hop? They were a part of the formation of hip hop as a whole, so there's nothing about their presence that says, to me, they're appropriating the culture. They were b-boys, they were graf aritst, they were dj's they were producers, they were MC's (though admittedly few at first), so how does that work? Are they not entitled to have a claim to hip hop like we do?

Because the people that you're talking about are not like the ones everyone is referring to. They are not one and the same.

People like Alchemist, Harry Fraud, Action Bronson, Em... Yeah, they're entitled to have a claim to hip-hop because they put in the work and are proven. They're not caricatures.

If you wanna tell me that Action Bronson and Post Malone should be categorized the same and should have an equal claim, shit, then I don't know what to tell you.

Should Future, Migos, Fetty Wap and not one of these other mumble mush mouf ass "rappers"? 'Cause I can't understand yet how the bullshit "music" they're pushing is being accepted with open arms as a part of "rap".

Migos and Future have their place. And how you gon try and straw man the convo? I'm not talking about Future and nem right now.

Although, it could be argued that the bar has been lowered, in terms of rap being a craft that rappers take serious, since the rise of a few artists. That much is plausible.

But Post Malone is not the only vulture here either. I think Yachty and Uzi are examples of vultures as well. Anybody lookin to make a quick buck, while neglecting the genre, its history, and the skill required to be halfway decent, is a vulture in my eyes.

I just don't say they're stealing culture because they're black. We may not have much, but hip-hop is a part of black culture, for better or worse.

This entire reply is where I wanted to get to in this whole convo.

While you wouldn't include Future and Migos, I do. The way I see it, they're in if for a paycheck and nothing more. Just like all those cats that came through callin themselves "producers" with cracked FL Studio or Reason runnin' Blue Light Specials "5 exclusives for $10" during the height of the "super producer" craze. They had no real love for hip hop, no connection to what was here before as a way to move it forward.

What you said right here is what I want everyone to think about:

Anybody lookin to make a quick buck, while neglecting the genre, its history, and the skill required to be halfway decent, is a vulture in my eyes.

This is the conclusion I wanted to come out. These dudes the OP brought up ain't culture vultures because they're white because we've had white boys down with hip hop since the beginning. Nah, they're culture vultures because they're in it for the money and nothing more just like Yachty, Uzi, and 'nem; they just happen to be white.

 

[Madame_CJSkywalker]

That's not the beginnings tho... hip-hop is older than all those guys careers

How is it cultural appropriation when whites (and latinos for that matter) were a part of it from day one?

Nigga WHITES WERE NOT IN IT FROM DAY ONE they jumped on it to get money and fame. Well after all the arts of hip hop were established

Latinos however that another matter

The core elements of hip hop are B-boying, Grafitti, Turntablism, and Rapping.

NYC's B-boying borrowed heavily from LA's locking. The Campbell Lockers, later named just The Lockers, was a dance crew from LA that originated pop-locking that had among it's original members in 1971(and throughout the 70's) Toni Basil, the white chick that went on to 1-hit wonder fame with the song "Hey Mickey" in '81. Plenty of those old NYC B-Boy crews had whites in their rosters with a lot of them being chicks.

White Graf artists were around in NYC back in the early 70's doing work right alongside Black and Latino artists. Cats like Bil Rock, Min, and a whole slew of other white dudes were very active bombing back in the day and very much integrated into the Graf scene.

DJ's? From the late 70's throughout the 80's there's always been a few white cats though they were always overshadowed by Black and Latino DJ's.

Rappers: This is the sole place where Black men had exclusivity with the formation of hip hop. Granted, white cats were a part of the early hip hop sound of they late 70's and early 80's as the creators of some of hip hop's most memorable joints from the early 80's (like the aforementioned Man Parrish, Gordon Bahary, and Arthur Baker), but as far as MC's go this was the Black man's stronghold until 1983 when the Beastie Boys dropped "Cooky Puss".

In the early 80's there was almost no money in hip hop and the only fame there was to be had was likely local to your immediate area or region. They didn't do it for fame or money, but to say "I did that".

C'mon, bruh. You know damn well muthafuckas like Post Malone and Lil Peep are nothing like the white boys that helped formulate the sound of hip-hop. That shouldn't even need to be stated. Smh.

You're making unnecessary points. No one is talking about proven acts like The Beastie Boys here.

The point I was making was how do you call white rappers "cultural appropriators" when white dudes have been around since the very beginning of hip hop? They were a part of the formation of hip hop as a whole, so there's nothing about their presence that says, to me, they're appropriating the culture. They were b-boys, they were graf aritst, they were dj's they were producers, they were MC's (though admittedly few at first), so how does that work? Are they not entitled to have a claim to hip hop like we do?

Because the people that you're talking about are not like the ones everyone is referring to. They are not one and the same.

People like Alchemist, Harry Fraud, Action Bronson, Em... Yeah, they're entitled to have a claim to hip-hop because they put in the work and are proven. They're not caricatures.

If you wanna tell me that Action Bronson and Post Malone should be categorized the same and should have an equal claim, shit, then I don't know what to tell you.

Should Future, Migos, Fetty Wap and not one of these other mumble mush mouf ass "rappers"? 'Cause I can't understand yet how the bullshit "music" they're pushing is being accepted with open arms as a part of "rap".

Migos and Future have their place. And how you gon try and straw man the convo? I'm not talking about Future and nem right now.

Although, it could be argued that the bar has been lowered, in terms of rap being a craft that rappers take serious, since the rise of a few artists. That much is plausible.

But Post Malone is not the only vulture here either. I think Yachty and Uzi are examples of vultures as well. Anybody lookin to make a quick buck, while neglecting the genre, its history, and the skill required to be halfway decent, is a vulture in my eyes.

I just don't say they're stealing culture because they're black. We may not have much, but hip-hop is a part of black culture, for better or worse.

This entire reply is where I wanted to get to in this whole convo.

While you wouldn't include Future and Migos, I do. The way I see it, they're in if for a paycheck and nothing more. Just like all those cats that came through callin themselves "producers" with cracked FL Studio or Reason runnin' Blue Light Specials "5 exclusives for $10" during the height of the "super producer" craze. They had no real love for hip hop, no connection to what was here before as a way to move it forward.

What you said right here is what I want everyone to think about:

Anybody lookin to make a quick buck, while neglecting the genre, its history, and the skill required to be halfway decent, is a vulture in my eyes.

This is the conclusion I wanted to come out. These dudes the OP brought up ain't culture vultures because they're white because we've had white boys down with hip hop since the beginning. Nah, they're culture vultures because they're in it for the money and nothing more just like Yachty, Uzi, and 'nem; they just happen to be white.

not the biggest hip hop head

but i was reading this article and it made me want to comment
https://www.vibe.com/2017/11/post-malone-tells-people-dont-listen-to-hip-hop/

maybe i'm just stating the obvious

and i don't think you are necessarily wrong, but its just so much more frustrating how a post malone can pick and choice when to embrace and distance himself from hip hop and blk culture at no real costs (i.e. still sell millions, more airtime, critical acclaim, etc)

whereas blk artist are pigeonholed and held to a different/higher standard by white and blk ppl

sticking with post malone

he can say "if you’re looking to cry, if you’re looking to think about life, don’t listen to hip hop" at no real cost

he can release a "white iverson" ...enjoy airplay from both blk and white radio...then afford to turn down opportunities like a slot on the XXL Freshmen list because he was “going in more of a rock/pop/country direction”

yes its america, but frustrating nonetheless

 

[TheGOAT]

Skimmed thru the thread

So whats the verdict?

Anyone not black is a vulture unless they named Action Bronson or Alchemist?

 

[TheGOAT]

That's not the beginnings tho... hip-hop is older than all those guys careers

How is it cultural appropriation when whites (and latinos for that matter) were a part of it from day one?

Nigga WHITES WERE NOT IN IT FROM DAY ONE they jumped on it to get money and fame. Well after all the arts of hip hop were established

Latinos however that another matter

The core elements of hip hop are B-boying, Grafitti, Turntablism, and Rapping.

NYC's B-boying borrowed heavily from LA's locking. The Campbell Lockers, later named just The Lockers, was a dance crew from LA that originated pop-locking that had among it's original members in 1971(and throughout the 70's) Toni Basil, the white chick that went on to 1-hit wonder fame with the song "Hey Mickey" in '81. Plenty of those old NYC B-Boy crews had whites in their rosters with a lot of them being chicks.

White Graf artists were around in NYC back in the early 70's doing work right alongside Black and Latino artists. Cats like Bil Rock, Min, and a whole slew of other white dudes were very active bombing back in the day and very much integrated into the Graf scene.

DJ's? From the late 70's throughout the 80's there's always been a few white cats though they were always overshadowed by Black and Latino DJ's.

Rappers: This is the sole place where Black men had exclusivity with the formation of hip hop. Granted, white cats were a part of the early hip hop sound of they late 70's and early 80's as the creators of some of hip hop's most memorable joints from the early 80's (like the aforementioned Man Parrish, Gordon Bahary, and Arthur Baker), but as far as MC's go this was the Black man's stronghold until 1983 when the Beastie Boys dropped "Cooky Puss".

In the early 80's there was almost no money in hip hop and the only fame there was to be had was likely local to your immediate area or region. They didn't do it for fame or money, but to say "I did that".

C'mon, bruh. You know damn well muthafuckas like Post Malone and Lil Peep are nothing like the white boys that helped formulate the sound of hip-hop. That shouldn't even need to be stated. Smh.

You're making unnecessary points. No one is talking about proven acts like The Beastie Boys here.

The point I was making was how do you call white rappers "cultural appropriators" when white dudes have been around since the very beginning of hip hop? They were a part of the formation of hip hop as a whole, so there's nothing about their presence that says, to me, they're appropriating the culture. They were b-boys, they were graf aritst, they were dj's they were producers, they were MC's (though admittedly few at first), so how does that work? Are they not entitled to have a claim to hip hop like we do?

Because the people that you're talking about are not like the ones everyone is referring to. They are not one and the same.

People like Alchemist, Harry Fraud, Action Bronson, Em... Yeah, they're entitled to have a claim to hip-hop because they put in the work and are proven. They're not caricatures.

If you wanna tell me that Action Bronson and Post Malone should be categorized the same and should have an equal claim, shit, then I don't know what to tell you.

Should Future, Migos, Fetty Wap and not one of these other mumble mush mouf ass "rappers"? 'Cause I can't understand yet how the bullshit "music" they're pushing is being accepted with open arms as a part of "rap".

Migos and Future have their place. And how you gon try and straw man the convo? I'm not talking about Future and nem right now.

Although, it could be argued that the bar has been lowered, in terms of rap being a craft that rappers take serious, since the rise of a few artists. That much is plausible.

But Post Malone is not the only vulture here either. I think Yachty and Uzi are examples of vultures as well. Anybody lookin to make a quick buck, while neglecting the genre, its history, and the skill required to be halfway decent, is a vulture in my eyes.

I just don't say they're stealing culture because they're black. We may not have much, but hip-hop is a part of black culture, for better or worse.

This entire reply is where I wanted to get to in this whole convo.

While you wouldn't include Future and Migos, I do. The way I see it, they're in if for a paycheck and nothing more. Just like all those cats that came through callin themselves "producers" with cracked FL Studio or Reason runnin' Blue Light Specials "5 exclusives for $10" during the height of the "super producer" craze. They had no real love for hip hop, no connection to what was here before as a way to move it forward.

What you said right here is what I want everyone to think about:

Anybody lookin to make a quick buck, while neglecting the genre, its history, and the skill required to be halfway decent, is a vulture in my eyes.

This is the conclusion I wanted to come out. These dudes the OP brought up ain't culture vultures because they're white because we've had white boys down with hip hop since the beginning. Nah, they're culture vultures because they're in it for the money and nothing more just like Yachty, Uzi, and 'nem; they just happen to be white.

not the biggest hip hop head

but i was reading this article and it made me want to comment
https://www.vibe.com/2017/11/post-malone-tells-people-dont-listen-to-hip-hop/

maybe i'm just stating the obvious

and i don't think you are necessarily wrong, but its just so much more frustrating how a post malone can pick and choice when to embrace and distance himself from hip hop and blk culture at no real costs (i.e. still sell millions, more airtime, critical acclaim, etc)

whereas blk artist are pigeonholed and held to a different/higher standard by white and blk ppl

sticking with post malone

he can say "if you’re looking to cry, if you’re looking to think about life, don’t listen to hip hop" at no real cost

he can release a "white iverson" ...enjoy airplay from both blk and white radio...then afford to turn down opportunities like a slot on the XXL Freshmen list because he was “going in more of a rock/pop/country direction”

yes its america, but frustrating nonetheless

The IC fav Joe Budden cosigned Post on that comment above

 

[Like Water]

Skimmed thru the thread

So whats the verdict?

Anyone not black is a vulture unless they named Action Bronson or Alchemist?

If that's the conclusion you reached, then maybe you should read the thread instead of skimming it.

And Joe Budden be talkin out his ass. No one takes him serious unless he's behind a mic in the booth.