Cultural Vultures Are Taking Rap Over

[waterproof]

White Man Jus Rulin

 

[konceptjones]

That's not the beginnings tho... hip-hop is older than all those guys careers

How is it cultural appropriation when whites (and latinos for that matter) were a part of it from day one?

Nigga WHITES WERE NOT IN IT FROM DAY ONE they jumped on it to get money and fame. Well after all the arts of hip hop were established

Latinos however that another matter

The core elements of hip hop are B-boying, Grafitti, Turntablism, and Rapping.

NYC's B-boying borrowed heavily from LA's locking. The Campbell Lockers, later named just The Lockers, was a dance crew from LA that originated pop-locking that had among it's original members in 1971(and throughout the 70's) Toni Basil, the white chick that went on to 1-hit wonder fame with the song "Hey Mickey" in '81. Plenty of those old NYC B-Boy crews had whites in their rosters with a lot of them being chicks.

White Graf artists were around in NYC back in the early 70's doing work right alongside Black and Latino artists. Cats like Bil Rock, Min, and a whole slew of other white dudes were very active bombing back in the day and very much integrated into the Graf scene.

DJ's? From the late 70's throughout the 80's there's always been a few white cats though they were always overshadowed by Black and Latino DJ's.

Rappers: This is the sole place where Black men had exclusivity with the formation of hip hop. Granted, white cats were a part of the early hip hop sound of they late 70's and early 80's as the creators of some of hip hop's most memorable joints from the early 80's (like the aforementioned Man Parrish, Gordon Bahary, and Arthur Baker), but as far as MC's go this was the Black man's stronghold until 1983 when the Beastie Boys dropped "Cooky Puss".

In the early 80's there was almost no money in hip hop and the only fame there was to be had was likely local to your immediate area or region. They didn't do it for fame or money, but to say "I did that".

 

[Like Water]

That's not the beginnings tho... hip-hop is older than all those guys careers

How is it cultural appropriation when whites (and latinos for that matter) were a part of it from day one?

Nigga WHITES WERE NOT IN IT FROM DAY ONE they jumped on it to get money and fame. Well after all the arts of hip hop were established

Latinos however that another matter

The core elements of hip hop are B-boying, Grafitti, Turntablism, and Rapping.

NYC's B-boying borrowed heavily from LA's locking. The Campbell Lockers, later named just The Lockers, was a dance crew from LA that originated pop-locking that had among it's original members in 1971(and throughout the 70's) Toni Basil, the white chick that went on to 1-hit wonder fame with the song "Hey Mickey" in '81. Plenty of those old NYC B-Boy crews had whites in their rosters with a lot of them being chicks.

White Graf artists were around in NYC back in the early 70's doing work right alongside Black and Latino artists. Cats like Bil Rock, Min, and a whole slew of other white dudes were very active bombing back in the day and very much integrated into the Graf scene.

DJ's? From the late 70's throughout the 80's there's always been a few white cats though they were always overshadowed by Black and Latino DJ's.

Rappers: This is the sole place where Black men had exclusivity with the formation of hip hop. Granted, white cats were a part of the early hip hop sound of they late 70's and early 80's as the creators of some of hip hop's most memorable joints from the early 80's (like the aforementioned Man Parrish, Gordon Bahary, and Arthur Baker), but as far as MC's go this was the Black man's stronghold until 1983 when the Beastie Boys dropped "Cooky Puss".

In the early 80's there was almost no money in hip hop and the only fame there was to be had was likely local to your immediate area or region. They didn't do it for fame or money, but to say "I did that".

C'mon, bruh. You know damn well muthafuckas like Post Malone and Lil Peep are nothing like the white boys that helped formulate the sound of hip-hop. That shouldn't even need to be stated. Smh.

You're making unnecessary points. No one is talking about proven acts like The Beastie Boys here.

 

[genocidecutter]

Scusted that you know so much about a cat named lil pump.

All I bump is Bruse Wane and KB Da Kidnappa because that's what the IC taught me.

You ain't trying to bump that Shenco boy meets world soundtrack fiya?????

Shenco got tuff bars for days, but he can't hold a candle to Bruse Wane's godly flow.

"Im shooting for the stars and, I ain't settling for nothing less"

"Fishing for caviar, but gettin turkey bacon

Hip-hop is bad politics like Sarah Palin"

 

[MeekMonizzLLLLLLe14]

There is a huge difference between which rappers are topping the singles chart and which rappers have the top album sales/concert attendance.The rap singles chart is a rotating wheel that allows a few rappers at a time have single sales. Remember Fetty Wap was on that shit a few years back now he is milk carton status.

On the flip side when it comes to solid album sales Kendrick and Cole and Jay are the niggas who are selling the most year in and year out. And yes after then the rest of the lyrical niggas ain't going plat sure. But underground lyrical rappers can still make a living and continue giving their fans quality music via being indy.

 

[grumpy_new_yorker]

"Im shooting the stars and, I ain't settling for nothing less"

"Fishing for caviar, but gettin turkey bacon

Hip-hop is bad politics like Sarah Palin"

5 mics. Legendary.

 

[Rozetta5tone]

All by design.

 

[konceptjones]

That's not the beginnings tho... hip-hop is older than all those guys careers

How is it cultural appropriation when whites (and latinos for that matter) were a part of it from day one?

Nigga WHITES WERE NOT IN IT FROM DAY ONE they jumped on it to get money and fame. Well after all the arts of hip hop were established

Latinos however that another matter

The core elements of hip hop are B-boying, Grafitti, Turntablism, and Rapping.

NYC's B-boying borrowed heavily from LA's locking. The Campbell Lockers, later named just The Lockers, was a dance crew from LA that originated pop-locking that had among it's original members in 1971(and throughout the 70's) Toni Basil, the white chick that went on to 1-hit wonder fame with the song "Hey Mickey" in '81. Plenty of those old NYC B-Boy crews had whites in their rosters with a lot of them being chicks.

White Graf artists were around in NYC back in the early 70's doing work right alongside Black and Latino artists. Cats like Bil Rock, Min, and a whole slew of other white dudes were very active bombing back in the day and very much integrated into the Graf scene.

DJ's? From the late 70's throughout the 80's there's always been a few white cats though they were always overshadowed by Black and Latino DJ's.

Rappers: This is the sole place where Black men had exclusivity with the formation of hip hop. Granted, white cats were a part of the early hip hop sound of they late 70's and early 80's as the creators of some of hip hop's most memorable joints from the early 80's (like the aforementioned Man Parrish, Gordon Bahary, and Arthur Baker), but as far as MC's go this was the Black man's stronghold until 1983 when the Beastie Boys dropped "Cooky Puss".

In the early 80's there was almost no money in hip hop and the only fame there was to be had was likely local to your immediate area or region. They didn't do it for fame or money, but to say "I did that".

C'mon, bruh. You know damn well muthafuckas like Post Malone and Lil Peep are nothing like the white boys that helped formulate the sound of hip-hop. That shouldn't even need to be stated. Smh.

You're making unnecessary points. No one is talking about proven acts like The Beastie Boys here.

The point I was making was how do you call white rappers "cultural appropriators" when white dudes have been around since the very beginning of hip hop? They were a part of the formation of hip hop as a whole, so there's nothing about their presence that says, to me, they're appropriating the culture. They were b-boys, they were graf aritst, they were dj's they were producers, they were MC's (though admittedly few at first), so how does that work? Are they not entitled to have a claim to hip hop like we do?

 

[Like Water]

That's not the beginnings tho... hip-hop is older than all those guys careers

How is it cultural appropriation when whites (and latinos for that matter) were a part of it from day one?

Nigga WHITES WERE NOT IN IT FROM DAY ONE they jumped on it to get money and fame. Well after all the arts of hip hop were established

Latinos however that another matter

The core elements of hip hop are B-boying, Grafitti, Turntablism, and Rapping.

NYC's B-boying borrowed heavily from LA's locking. The Campbell Lockers, later named just The Lockers, was a dance crew from LA that originated pop-locking that had among it's original members in 1971(and throughout the 70's) Toni Basil, the white chick that went on to 1-hit wonder fame with the song "Hey Mickey" in '81. Plenty of those old NYC B-Boy crews had whites in their rosters with a lot of them being chicks.

White Graf artists were around in NYC back in the early 70's doing work right alongside Black and Latino artists. Cats like Bil Rock, Min, and a whole slew of other white dudes were very active bombing back in the day and very much integrated into the Graf scene.

DJ's? From the late 70's throughout the 80's there's always been a few white cats though they were always overshadowed by Black and Latino DJ's.

Rappers: This is the sole place where Black men had exclusivity with the formation of hip hop. Granted, white cats were a part of the early hip hop sound of they late 70's and early 80's as the creators of some of hip hop's most memorable joints from the early 80's (like the aforementioned Man Parrish, Gordon Bahary, and Arthur Baker), but as far as MC's go this was the Black man's stronghold until 1983 when the Beastie Boys dropped "Cooky Puss".

In the early 80's there was almost no money in hip hop and the only fame there was to be had was likely local to your immediate area or region. They didn't do it for fame or money, but to say "I did that".

C'mon, bruh. You know damn well muthafuckas like Post Malone and Lil Peep are nothing like the white boys that helped formulate the sound of hip-hop. That shouldn't even need to be stated. Smh.

You're making unnecessary points. No one is talking about proven acts like The Beastie Boys here.

The point I was making was how do you call white rappers "cultural appropriators" when white dudes have been around since the very beginning of hip hop? They were a part of the formation of hip hop as a whole, so there's nothing about their presence that says, to me, they're appropriating the culture. They were b-boys, they were graf aritst, they were dj's they were producers, they were MC's (though admittedly few at first), so how does that work? Are they not entitled to have a claim to hip hop like we do?

Because the people that you're talking about are not like the ones everyone is referring to. They are not one and the same.

People like Alchemist, Harry Fraud, Action Bronson, Em... Yeah, they're entitled to have a claim to hip-hop because they put in the work and are proven. They're not caricatures.

If you wanna tell me that Action Bronson and Post Malone should be categorized the same and should have an equal claim, shit, then I don't know what to tell you.

 

[5 Grand]

Somebody posted this on my Facebook

You would think a Hip Hop DJ like Grandmaster Flash, DJ Premier, Kid Capri, Bambaattaa, Jazzy Jeff, etc. would be #1.

I'm pretty sure that DJing culture began with Hip Hop, There were DJs before Herc Flash and Bam but I think Hip Hop DJs raised the bar.

 

[Go figure]

^^^^ to my knowledge, which may be limited on this subject, most those djs tour regularly and release full albums if not radio singles in the last couple yrs.

Calvin harris has songs with rihanna, skrillex did a song with asap rocky, aoki (asian?) toured with waka flocka, diplo does songs with everyyyyyyone including hip hop.

Theyre also part of the current wave of modern house music. Where a real house music fan will tell u, its not even house. House music started in chicago but of course anything that gains popularity to extreme degrees never stays put or goes without evolving (or devolving depending how u look at it).

Some of the hip hop djs i know of dont release much new material they get their money touring with artists like dj green lantern and Nas.

 

[5 Grand]

^^^^ to my knowledge, which may be limited on this subject, most those djs tour regularly and release full albums if not radio singles in the last couple yrs.

Calvin harris has songs with rihanna, skrillex did a song with asap rocky, aoki (asian?) toured with waka flocka, diplo does songs with everyyyyyyone including hip hop.

Theyre also part of the current wave of modern house music. Where a real house music fan will tell u, its not even house. House music started in chicago but of course anything that gains popularity to extreme degrees never stays put or goes without evolving (or devolving depending how u look at it).

Some of the hip hop djs i know of dont release much new material they get their money touring with artists like dj green lantern and Nas.

OK but I know cats like Grandmaster Flash and Jazzy Jeff perform at stadium festivals. I'm no trying to sound like a bitter old man, but I'd expect to see Grandmaster Flash and Jazzy Jeff on that list.

Also, they don't just blend EDM, they actually scratch and do turntablism tricks.

 

[Go figure]

^^^^ to my knowledge, which may be limited on this subject, most those djs tour regularly and release full albums if not radio singles in the last couple yrs.

Calvin harris has songs with rihanna, skrillex did a song with asap rocky, aoki (asian?) toured with waka flocka, diplo does songs with everyyyyyyone including hip hop.

Theyre also part of the current wave of modern house music. Where a real house music fan will tell u, its not even house. House music started in chicago but of course anything that gains popularity to extreme degrees never stays put or goes without evolving (or devolving depending how u look at it).

Some of the hip hop djs i know of dont release much new material they get their money touring with artists like dj green lantern and Nas.

OK but I know cats like Grandmaster Flash and Jazzy Jeff perform at stadium festivals. I'm no trying to sound like a bitter old man, but I'd expect to see Grandmaster Flash and Jazzy Jeff on that list.

Also, they don't just blend EDM, they actually scratch and do turntablism tricks.

Yea i agree most DJs these days just stand up there n pump their fist. But believe me that there are still younger guys that make a point to respect todays DJs that still work the turn tables at their shows.

My point was that the hiphop DJs u mention are touring off their old catalogues. Theyre not gonna keep making millions when their last album came out 15+ yrs ago.

The millionaire edm DJs are still dropping damn near every yr.

 

[5 Grand]

Maybe its just me but Grandmaster Flash, Jazzy Jeff (and a few other people like Kid Capri, etc.) should be on everybody's bucket list.

Everybody, White, Black, Asian, Latino, old, young, man, women, etc. should see those guys at least once in a lifetime.

 

[genocidecutter]

All I know is Insane Clown Posse ain't culture vultures.

 

[MeekMonizzLLLLLLe14]

Somebody posted this on my Facebook

You would think a Hip Hop DJ like Grandmaster Flash, DJ Premier, Kid Capri, Bambaattaa, Jazzy Jeff, etc. would be #1.

I'm pretty sure that DJing culture began with Hip Hop, There were DJs before Herc Flash and Bam but I think Hip Hop DJs raised the bar.

That's like saying Jim Brown, Hank Aaron and Jerry rice should still be the richest athletes in 2017. The originators always pave the way for future generations to make much bigger checks for the artform than they did.

The only true way to continue to make more than the current school is to start your own company or become an exec. Michael Jordan, Dre, Diddy, and Derek Jeter are examples of this. These Dj's took the model where they have less overhead and a larger demographic (pop/edm) with less people (list is full of a single DJ or a tandem). As Omar says in the wire "it's all in the game".

 

[blackgod813]

Man we dont want them to rap to steal wat little we have

 

[sully]

I think part of the difference between those earlier acts listed, plus groups like Beastie Boys, Miilkbone, and even guys like Ill Bill up to Eminem, was that they didn't want to take the culture of hip hop out of the music, they wanted to contribute to the existing infrastructure of the musical sound.

This current wave of "white rappers" are something completely different. They seem to be more about taking the culture of hip hop out of the music and moving the music away from what it was to something unrecognizable.

It's the autotune and the increased element of singing beyond the constraints of the chorus that have led to this new wave of music, where rap has blended into other genres to the point where actually rapping and respecting the infrastructure of the hip hop culture has become an outlier moreso than than the norm when discussing it in the mainstream.

IMO, the artists that sorta moved it in this direction snuck right under a lot of noses. Guys like T-Pain, Akon, Kanye, Drake, Future, Kid Cudi, Chief Keef, etc, all moved the music in a direction where there's now little turning back. It's paved the way for these new artists and this new sound to come in and completely replace the incumbent sound.

Shit...go on reddit (a terrible place for hip hop discussion, by all means), but you'll see in a discussion where someone mentions "Wu-tang", and like 20 other people will leave "ain't nuthin' to fuck wit", and "i invest in Wu-tang Financial", etc. Quippy remarks by about a 100 white boys making a joke regarding the music, which superficially might seem harmless, but underneath it's a continued mockery of everything the Wu stand for, and by extension people who respect hip hop. Especially when you get to the heart of these people's life philosophy of taking nothing serious and mocking everything to remove its power. This is where the power of black culture being able to exert itself in mainstream America starts to lose power, and where this ties in to the larger social issue of racism in America and bigotry. It cuts to the heart of the matter of Blacks being killed by police and presumed guilty by race. It cuts to the bigotry against Muslims by white America and the continued mockery of indigenous peoples through professional sports team names & logos.

White culture is nihilist at heart and has no respect for anything, therefore they will mock to remove power from something they don't like. They shroud that in arguments of "free speech" and "Western values". But ultimately, they stand for nothing, so they seek to take power away from anything that has meaning to others. And the more you resist, the more they insist upon encroaching. Now, obviously not all are like that, nor is this a specific trait necessarily of individuals, but when you take a step back and look at how they operate, this is a philosophical essence.

This is the same nihilistic tendencies that have taken on a whole new meaning with Trumpism and personal realities taking over the communal shared reality. It all stems from nihilistic ideas about society and the world.

This is why I agree with the argument that there is appropriation of hip hop music going on. I can see that and i'm not even black. not even white either (thank God), but it seems pretty clear that these new waves of artists that are attempting to completely change the sound and move rap music out the hip hop cultural sphere and do to it what

they did to rock music. Though I think they are doing so by taking advantage of an opening already created by some prior hip hop artists.

 

[aladdin1978]

Never saw that white boy in Comptons most wanted after that album cover. Always wondered who the fuck that was.

 

[Go figure]

IMO, the artists that sorta moved it in this direction snuck right under a lot of noses. Guys like T-Pain, Akon, Kanye, Drake, Future, Kid Cudi, Chief Keef, etc, all moved the music in a direction where there's now little turning back. It's paved the way for these new artists and this new sound to come in and completely replace the incumbent sound.

Huh so youre sayin all black artists did that? Ironic

Im not saying theres no appropriation whatsoever bc that'd be a lie. What i do think tho is regardless white artists are not the ones creating the waves nor pushing the music in any direction. Aside from Em what white rappers dominate the culture? I'd be more worried about the suit & tie label guys before post malone. Hes not doing anything that hasnt already been done

Even the ones listed in this thread arent moving nobody. Its still your Future, 21 savage, migos and nem. Even guys who dont listen to them heard of them before, whereas the white rappers in the op most ppl never heard of.