Better Overall Wrestler - Cham Edition: John Cena vs. Kane

[Already Home_17]

Kane was unmasked because hus character had been shit for years. I agree 2003 Kane was some of the best work but how many PPVs did he main event? He had some good matches with Shane McMahon, who is a remarkable worker by the way, but he didn't really shine with anyone else...maybe RVD and he had a decent match with HBK around that time.

And Kane no sold Chavo Guerrero's Frog Splash WHICH IS HIS FINISHER into a chokeslam. Rollins doesnt use the frog splash as a finish, in fact he just started using it as a regular damn move. If IIRC he did the same to RVD as well.

But lets get back to these matches though.

Lets look at similar opponents.

Who had better matches with Angle? Cena

Who had better matches with HHH? Cena

Who had better matches with RVD? Cena

Who had better matches with Edge? Cena

Who had better matches with Batista? Cena

Who had better matches with Jericho? Cena

Im not seeing the debate.

kane main evented twice in 2003

vs hhh, which lead to his unmasking

after he was a heel and well, it didn't make sense for a heel hhh to go up against a heel Kane for the title did it?

once a face goldberg won the championship, Kane challenged. yet so did hhh. have you forgotten this was the middle of the reign of terror?

I can't think of any great matches Kane's been in, but he's had a lot of enjoyable ones. especially with the opponents you named.

what gives Kane the edge over cena imo is how he's been able to evolve his character numerous of times. hell his bipolar act last Monday was one of the highlights of the show. and although corporate Kane has been annoying for the past 2 years, cena's character has been insufferable for the past 8 years. Kane's willing to put anybody over. cena? nexus

that's all that needs to be said

and nigga did you just bring up him no selling chavo? chavo? who gives a fuck?

It doesn't matter who it is. Chavo at the time was ECW World Champion. I can go on about him burying Tombstones and other people's finishers too but I stuck with the topic of frog splashes.

I believe he also did it to Rey Mysterio too.

As far as his main event run of 2003 the second match (triple threat w/ Goldberg & HHH) he was only in that match to lose.

I agree my favorite Kane run was 2003, when they reignited the character by unmasking him but then they snuffed it out quick as fuck.

Kane was dull as dishwater until 2010 when they made him WHC for his "last run" where he killed Undertaker in a feud. Then he and Edge bombed and had shit matches.

Then Kane was once again boring and doing nothing until 2012 when he returned masked to feud with....CENA! Lol

I'm impressed you typed that without laughing. I sure laughed when I read it. but fine

chavo and rey are cruiserweights. Kane is a super heavyweight. no selling them is no big deal. the fact he had to sell for them in the first place is insulting

Kane didn't take the losing fall in that match. Goldberg did

edge was Larry Holmes status that whole year. he faced Jericho twice, orton, etc. and didn't have a good one on one match with anyone. I agree that feud was a bomb though

Kane's fued with cena produced shit matches. Kane's matches with orton, bryan, punk afterwards were clearly better

 

[jono]

Kane was unmasked because hus character had been shit for years. I agree 2003 Kane was some of the best work but how many PPVs did he main event? He had some good matches with Shane McMahon, who is a remarkable worker by the way, but he didn't really shine with anyone else...maybe RVD and he had a decent match with HBK around that time.

And Kane no sold Chavo Guerrero's Frog Splash WHICH IS HIS FINISHER into a chokeslam. Rollins doesnt use the frog splash as a finish, in fact he just started using it as a regular damn move. If IIRC he did the same to RVD as well.

But lets get back to these matches though.

Lets look at similar opponents.

Who had better matches with Angle? Cena

Who had better matches with HHH? Cena

Who had better matches with RVD? Cena

Who had better matches with Edge? Cena

Who had better matches with Batista? Cena

Who had better matches with Jericho? Cena

Im not seeing the debate.

kane main evented twice in 2003

vs hhh, which lead to his unmasking

after he was a heel and well, it didn't make sense for a heel hhh to go up against a heel Kane for the title did it?

once a face goldberg won the championship, Kane challenged. yet so did hhh. have you forgotten this was the middle of the reign of terror?

I can't think of any great matches Kane's been in, but he's had a lot of enjoyable ones. especially with the opponents you named.

what gives Kane the edge over cena imo is how he's been able to evolve his character numerous of times. hell his bipolar act last Monday was one of the highlights of the show. and although corporate Kane has been annoying for the past 2 years, cena's character has been insufferable for the past 8 years. Kane's willing to put anybody over. cena? nexus

that's all that needs to be said

and nigga did you just bring up him no selling chavo? chavo? who gives a fuck?

It doesn't matter who it is. Chavo at the time was ECW World Champion. I can go on about him burying Tombstones and other people's finishers too but I stuck with the topic of frog splashes.

I believe he also did it to Rey Mysterio too.

As far as his main event run of 2003 the second match (triple threat w/ Goldberg & HHH) he was only in that match to lose.

I agree my favorite Kane run was 2003, when they reignited the character by unmasking him but then they snuffed it out quick as fuck.

Kane was dull as dishwater until 2010 when they made him WHC for his "last run" where he killed Undertaker in a feud. Then he and Edge bombed and had shit matches.

Then Kane was once again boring and doing nothing until 2012 when he returned masked to feud with....CENA! Lol

I'm impressed you typed that without laughing. I sure laughed when I read it. but fine

chavo and rey are cruiserweights. Kane is a super heavyweight. no selling them is no big deal. the fact he had to sell for them in the first place is insulting

Kane didn't take the losing fall in that match. Goldberg did

edge was Larry Holmes status that whole year. he faced Jericho twice, orton, etc. and didn't have a good one on one match with anyone. I agree that feud was a bomb though

Kane's fued with cena produced shit matches. Kane's matches with orton, bryan, punk afterwards were clearly better

Most of your points are fair.

Kane also no-sold Jericho's Lionsault, but I guess since he's a "cruiserweight" its okay. JBL was just talking about that label.

Everyone sold for Rey so thats no excuse. Undertaker even sold for Rey. So thats bullshit.

Kane vs Cena was a trash feud, true enough but what was Kane doing before Cena gave him life? Jobbing to Bray Wyatt I believe.

Funny thing is, I haven't even talked about Kane's moveset which is just the sloppier version of Undertaker's moveset or that his character even after being unmasked did mostly uppercuts. Buddy didnt use his left arm to throw a punch for like 10 years.

 

[Already Home_17]

Kane put over both Jericho and mysterio. you're crying because he no sold a lionsault and frog splash?

Kane was written off tv before he feuded with cena. due to either injury or just time off

and you're calling Kane's move set sloppy...in defense of john cena

lol

you're better than this

 

[blu197]

Kane was unmasked because hus character had been shit for years. I agree 2003 Kane was some of the best work but how many PPVs did he main event? He had some good matches with Shane McMahon, who is a remarkable worker by the way, but he didn't really shine with anyone else...maybe RVD and he had a decent match with HBK around that time.

And Kane no sold Chavo Guerrero's Frog Splash WHICH IS HIS FINISHER into a chokeslam. Rollins doesnt use the frog splash as a finish, in fact he just started using it as a regular damn move. If IIRC he did the same to RVD as well.

But lets get back to these matches though.

Lets look at similar opponents.

Who had better matches with Angle? Cena

Who had better matches with HHH? Cena

Who had better matches with RVD? Cena

Who had better matches with Edge? Cena

Who had better matches with Batista? Cena

Who had better matches with Jericho? Cena

Im not seeing the debate.

kane main evented twice in 2003

vs hhh, which lead to his unmasking

after he was a heel and well, it didn't make sense for a heel hhh to go up against a heel Kane for the title did it?

once a face goldberg won the championship, Kane challenged. yet so did hhh. have you forgotten this was the middle of the reign of terror?

I can't think of any great matches Kane's been in, but he's had a lot of enjoyable ones. especially with the opponents you named.

what gives Kane the edge over cena imo is how he's been able to evolve his character numerous of times. hell his bipolar act last Monday was one of the highlights of the show. and although corporate Kane has been annoying for the past 2 years, cena's character has been insufferable for the past 8 years. Kane's willing to put anybody over. cena? nexus

that's all that needs to be said

and nigga did you just bring up him no selling chavo? chavo? who gives a fuck?

It doesn't matter who it is. Chavo at the time was ECW World Champion. I can go on about him burying Tombstones and other people's finishers too but I stuck with the topic of frog splashes.

I believe he also did it to Rey Mysterio too.

As far as his main event run of 2003 the second match (triple threat w/ Goldberg & HHH) he was only in that match to lose.

I agree my favorite Kane run was 2003, when they reignited the character by unmasking him but then they snuffed it out quick as fuck.

Kane was dull as dishwater until 2010 when they made him WHC for his "last run" where he killed Undertaker in a feud. Then he and Edge bombed and had shit matches.

Then Kane was once again boring and doing nothing until 2012 when he returned masked to feud with....CENA! Lol

I'm impressed you typed that without laughing. I sure laughed when I read it. but fine

chavo and rey are cruiserweights. Kane is a super heavyweight. no selling them is no big deal. the fact he had to sell for them in the first place is insulting

Kane didn't take the losing fall in that match. Goldberg did

edge was Larry Holmes status that whole year. he faced Jericho twice, orton, etc. and didn't have a good one on one match with anyone. I agree that feud was a bomb though

Kane's fued with cena produced shit matches. Kane's matches with orton, bryan, punk afterwards were clearly better

Most of your points are fair.

Kane also no-sold Jericho's Lionsault, but I guess since he's a "cruiserweight" its okay. JBL was just talking about that label.

Everyone sold for Rey so thats no excuse. Undertaker even sold for Rey. So thats bullshit.

Kane vs Cena was a trash feud, true enough but what was Kane doing before Cena gave him life? Jobbing to Bray Wyatt I believe.

What point are you tryn to make with this? I sure hope it's not some dumb shit like "Kane wouldn't still be around/important if it wasn't for Cena"

 

[Peezy_Jenkins]

cena is unorthodox and at times sloppy but u cant say he doesnt at least add to his arsenal for big matches. cena has been a terribly stale character but when it comes to the big matches he does his part. hence some of the great matches he's been a part of over the last few years. like u said, cant think of any great matches kane's been apart of. sure his character has evolved but for me, after he went from evil big red machine with a talk box to dealing with tori & xpac it was a wrap for me. had some funny/cool moments in between but i never really cared for that character like that again outside that dope finger eleven theme. i can understand him taking more l's/putting more people over as well, its not like he was booked as a main/top guy consistently. props for surviving all these years as the one of the last of vinces off the wall characters and for being an agile and durable big guy but....

 

[Already Home_17]

cena is unorthodox and at times sloppy but u cant say he doesnt at least add to his arsenal for big matches. cena has been a terribly stale character but when it comes to the big matches he does his part. hence some of the great matches he's been a part of over the last few years. like u said, cant think of any great matches kane's been apart of. sure his character has evolved but for me, after he went from evil big red machine with a talk box to dealing with tori & xpac it was a wrap for me. had some funny/cool moments in between but i never really cared for that character like that again outside that dope finger eleven theme. i can understand him taking more l's/putting more people over as well, its not like he was booked as a main/top guy consistently. props for surviving all these years as the one of the last of vinces off the wall characters and for being an agile and durable big guy but....

...but you voted for Kane

 

[Peezy_Jenkins]

upon further review

 

[blu197]

Cena is sloppy all the time, when has he had a crisp match? He cant even throw a crisp punch, Kane throws one of the best right hooks ive seen in the buisness... Cena "tries" to add new moves for big matches but they end up looking more shit than the shitty moves he already has....

 

[blu197]

Cena literally botching punches on Kane ironically


Cena no selling Reigns Spear

 

[jono]

Kane put over both Jericho and mysterio. you're crying because he no sold a lionsault and frog splash?

Kane was written off tv before he feuded with cena. due to either injury or just time off

and you're calling Kane's move set sloppy...in defense of john cena

lol

you're better than this

Cena has better matches than Kane. Thats my point, end of. Kane no-sells like Cena does so whats the complaint when Cena does it?

Yall nigga nitpick Cena to death but dont have the same standards for every one else.

Kane moveset is stale as fuck. He uses at most 4 moves and never added another finish its always the chokeslam or the tombstone but Cena moveset is stale?

Kane move set includes Right punch, right uppercut, flying clothesline (from the top rope) a side slam and a finisher. Thats it.

Occasionally, for shits and giggles he does a dropkick.

Kane is good for a man his size but over the span of his career he hasn't had the same match quality as Cena, period.

Just because niggas love to hate dude lets not get ridiculous.

 

[blu197]

Kane put over both Jericho and mysterio. you're crying because he no sold a lionsault and frog splash?

Kane was written off tv before he feuded with cena. due to either injury or just time off

and you're calling Kane's move set sloppy...in defense of john cena

lol

you're better than this

Cena has better matches than Kane. Thats my point, end of. Kane no-sells like Cena does so whats the complaint when Cena does it?

Yall nigga nitpick Cena to death but dont have the same standards for every one else.

Kane moveset is stale as fuck. He uses at most 4 moves and never added another finish its always the chokeslam or the tombstone but Cena moveset is stale?

Kane move set includes Right punch, right uppercut, flying clothesline (from the top rope) a side slam and a finisher. Thats it.

Occasionally, for shits and giggles he does a dropkick.

Kane is good for a man his size but over the span of his career he hasn't had the same match quality as Cena, period.

Just because niggas love to hate dude lets not get ridiculous.

Bruh if you seriously don't know the difference between no selling bc of booking (Kane) and no selling bc of breaking kayfabe (Cena) then with all due respect you're slow af... Plus you sound retarded saying "his fisher has always been a Chockeslam and tombstone" And? That like somebody complaining that Rocks finisher has always been Ppl Elbow and Rock Bottom or Brocks the F5...

And you tryn to play my nigga Kane on his moveset when it's easily better than Cenas, this video is pure ETHER and shows Kane is the better wrestler, Cena can't do half the moves Kane displays, y'all niggas are just exposing your selves showing that you don't know shit about wrestling or didn't watch wrestling back then like i suspect...

 

[Peezy_Jenkins]

i woulda never guessed there's a top 15 moves of kane lmao

first move

UPPERCUT

second

DROPKICK

 

[blu197]

i woulda never guessed there's a top 15 moves of kane lmao

first move

UPPERCUT

second

DROPKICK

Yea, pretty sad that that alone makes him a better wrestler than Cena, Cena can't do a crisp uppercut or a dropkick...

 

[blu197]

Nah but seriously this is the real ETHER that proves Kane is a better wrestler than Cena....

Top 50 moves of Kane


/Thread

 

[jono]

Kane been a thing since 98, he probably did some cool shit at one point but that wasnt a regular thing. I saw Kane do a droptoe hold once but i wouldnt count that as a move. That would be like counting headlocks as a move

 

[Peezy_Jenkins]

great, add knee lift and corner choke to the list, "this is awesome"

 

[Already Home_17]

Kane put over both Jericho and mysterio. you're crying because he no sold a lionsault and frog splash?

Kane was written off tv before he feuded with cena. due to either injury or just time off

and you're calling Kane's move set sloppy...in defense of john cena

lol

you're better than this

Cena has better matches than Kane. Thats my point, end of. Kane no-sells like Cena does so whats the complaint when Cena does it?

Yall nigga nitpick Cena to death but dont have the same standards for every one else.

Kane moveset is stale as fuck. He uses at most 4 moves and never added another finish its always the chokeslam or the tombstone but Cena moveset is stale?

Kane move set includes Right punch, right uppercut, flying clothesline (from the top rope) a side slam and a finisher. Thats it.

Occasionally, for shits and giggles he does a dropkick.

Kane is good for a man his size but over the span of his career he hasn't had the same match quality as Cena, period.

Just because niggas love to hate dude lets not get ridiculous.

I don't hate cena. and my argument isn't based on hate. it's based on my respect for Kane

I already mentioned Kane doesn't have a great match. but you started bringing up dumb shit like him no selling cruiserweights. your argument was flabby and sick from the jump

 

[jono]

Kane put over both Jericho and mysterio. you're crying because he no sold a lionsault and frog splash?

Kane was written off tv before he feuded with cena. due to either injury or just time off

and you're calling Kane's move set sloppy...in defense of john cena

lol

you're better than this

Cena has better matches than Kane. Thats my point, end of. Kane no-sells like Cena does so whats the complaint when Cena does it?

Yall nigga nitpick Cena to death but dont have the same standards for every one else.

Kane moveset is stale as fuck. He uses at most 4 moves and never added another finish its always the chokeslam or the tombstone but Cena moveset is stale?

Kane move set includes Right punch, right uppercut, flying clothesline (from the top rope) a side slam and a finisher. Thats it.

Occasionally, for shits and giggles he does a dropkick.

Kane is good for a man his size but over the span of his career he hasn't had the same match quality as Cena, period.

Just because niggas love to hate dude lets not get ridiculous.

I don't hate cena. and my argument isn't based on hate. it's based on my respect for Kane

I already mentioned Kane doesn't have a great match. but you started bringing up dumb shit like him no selling cruiserweights. your argument was flabby and sick from the jump

Dude is talking about him no-selling Rollins who aint that much bigger than the people I mentioned which furthers my point that they are just "cruiserweights" when someone else does it but for some reason its an original sin when Cena does it.

 

[Peezy_Jenkins]

seriously tho, in ring wise is a wash in favor of john cena and i cant respect ur opinion if u think other wise based on what we seen this year alone.

i can understand the opinion of kane having a better character although i disagree(corporate kane, non dominant big man kane, emotional kane, lacefront kane)

yall seriously think kane a better talker too tho? with a talk box from a smoking commercial for the first few years of his career? Really?

 

[Already Home_17]

seriously tho, in ring wise is a wash in favor of john cena and i cant respect ur opinion if u think other wise based on what we seen this year alone.

i can understand the opinion of kane having a better character although i disagree(corporate kane, non dominant big man kane, emotional kane, lacefront kane)

yall seriously think kane a better talker too tho? with a talk box from a smoking commercial for the first few years of his career? Really?

word

that springboard stunner, firemans carry and lazy ass stf is a thing of beauty...

keep it real. you were more impressed with neville, owens, rollins etc. performances in those matches than anything cena did

both are good promos, although kane has less cringe worthy promos than cena