Anti-Creationists......time to speak your clout

[Bodhi]

Thats understood, but then you start saying things like evolution is proven and a fact... and that we are all the same biologically.....

I agree that none of this has been proven......

But the problem is that your side is quick to say evolution is a fact or proven and when that happens scientific racism is allowed to grow even larger......

Evolution has been proven, but racial superiority has not been proven. Evolution shouldn't have to be attacked to prevent racism. These things do not come hand in hand. They are seperable. As previously stated, if it were proven that whites and asians are superior to africans, it wouldn't matter whether evolution were true or creationism were true.

Let's say, for argument's sake, that evolution has been disproven and intelligent design was scientifically proven. The idea of and argument for racial superiority could still be made; the basis for such could easily be switched from evolving to reach that point or created to reach that point.

 

[bambu]

If evolution has been proven......

The European racial hierarchy has also been proven.....

Ignorance more frequently begets confidence than does knowledge ~ Charles Darwin

 

[bambu]

Again...

I dont cosign his work, but he made some interesting/revealing points....

Particularly... the small boy electric story....

and his conclusion... "Evolution can tell you everything you need to know about yourself, except for the interesting stuff"...

Ignorance more frequently begets confidence than does knowledge ~ Charles Darwin

 

[DoUwant2go2Heaven]

LOL @ this Utter foolishness. It's 2012 and folks is still believing this non-sense? My goodness how sad.

 

[Jabu_Rule]

LOL @ this Utter foolishness. It's 2012 and folks is still Christians? Faux goodness how sad.

Word

 

[Bodhi]

If evolution has been proven......

The European racial hierarchy has also been proven.....

Not necessarily. Racial hierarchy has not been proven. My opinion is that it never will, even though evolution has been proven. Why give up on the best explanation for the origin of species just because some racists and supremacists abuse it? If you have a better explanation for the universe we've come to know, then I would be more than happy to "hear" it. Until a better explanation is given, we have to take the best available and expand on what we have. If not, we're not making any progress.

You've never answered my question about your beliefs, btw.

 

[whar]

Bambu you are selecting works from racist organizations (Pioneer Fund) and trying to paint the field of Biology with their hatred. (I say the field since evolution is the foundational theory of the field) Most everything in Dr Rushton book has been shown to be false or he misapplied the data. His interpretation of r/K reproductive strategy was flawed before he even wrote it in 1995.

Mainstream science does not support the racist concept you are ascribing to it but does support evolution. Any idea can be co-opted by less than reputable people for their own ends. You disregard those people, not the idea.

 

[Gold_Certificate]

I suppose the fact that people are continuously trying to steer the discussion from whether the phenomena of biological evolution occurs at all, to theories (some obscure) about how biological evolution occurs, shows that they have no refutation for the actual phenomena; so they can only attempt to refute theories that explain the phenomenon.

 

[bambu]

If evolution has been proven......

The European racial hierarchy has also been proven.....

Not necessarily. Racial hierarchy has not been proven. My opinion is that it never will, even though evolution has been proven. Why give up on the best explanation for the origin of species just because some racists and supremacists abuse it? If you have a better explanation for the universe we've come to know, then I would be more than happy to "hear" it. Until a better explanation is given, we have to take the best available and expand on what we have. If not, we're not making any progress.

You've never answered my question about your beliefs, btw.

Thats kind of what I have been trying to tell you.......

My opinion is that the racial hierarchy has been proven through evolution.....

Contrary to popular belief, it is not just racists and junk science that support this......

This is why I posted the video of Steve Jones..... The small boy electric story alluded to the evolution of the races and illustrated a racial hierarchy with Europeans as the Apex.....

I gave up on the "best explanation that we have" because I think it is flawed.....

I think that a better explanation is provided through some of the theories associated with intelligent design....

I try not to get into my personal beliefs, as they will more likely be disregarded as the rantings of a cannabis-head........

You never revealed any information on your article and please let me know what you thought about the small boy electric story....

Bambu you are selecting works from racist organizations (Pioneer Fund) and trying to paint the field of Biology with their hatred. (I say the field since evolution is the foundational theory of the field) Most everything in Dr Rushton book has been shown to be false or he misapplied the data. His interpretation of r/K reproductive strategy was flawed before he even wrote it in 1995.

Mainstream science does not support the racist concept you are ascribing to it but does support evolution. Any idea can be co-opted by less than reputable people for their own ends. You disregard those people, not the idea.

@Whar....

I disagree with you....

Mainstream science does support this racist concept....

Dr. Rushton and the Pioneer group are but one of the organizations that are visibly publishing this kind of research......

And I doubt that all of that work has been proven wrong...As a matter of fact most of their research is accepted apart from the racist ideas.....

I also challenge you to re-watch the small boy electric story without also cosigning Dr. Rushton....

 

[whar]

What does the story about small boy electric have to do with cosigning Rushton. I have heard that story and still think Rushton is full of shit. Further I remain convinced the theory of evolution is the best explanation for available evidence.

 

[Bodhi]

I think that a better explanation is provided through some of the theories associated with intelligent design....

I try not to get into my personal beliefs, as they will more likely be disregarded as the rantings of a cannabis-head........

Go ahead

 

[Bodhi]

please let me know what you thought about the small boy electric story....

When I was a theist, I would have probably given him the same answer. What do you think about it?

 

[bambu]

I think that a better explanation is provided through some of the theories associated with intelligent design....

I try not to get into my personal beliefs, as they will more likely be disregarded as the rantings of a cannabis-head........

Go ahead

Well I could "prove" to you that the Aten is the supreme ruler or "God" of this world.....but that is on some other shit....

please let me know what you thought about the small boy electric story....

When I was a theist, I would have probably given him the same answer. What do you think about it?

I think it provides "evidence" for Dr. Rushton's theories......

You will have to excuse me.... I am a scholar, so I tend to revolve around the academic evidence associated with this argument.... and Dr. Jones is one of your best and brightest......

He detailed the "evolution" of the races concerning AIDS, and "proved" that the European was more evolved, while the African was more closely related to the chimpanzee......

Most people would have missed that bit, but we can see how that pretty much establishes the research of individuals like the Pioneer Fund......

And I nosign shit like that....

With "mainstream" science and academia providing this foundation......

The work of the pioneer fund should not be viewed as junk science..........

 

[Bodhi]

I think that a better explanation is provided through some of the theories associated with intelligent design....

I try not to get into my personal beliefs, as they will more likely be disregarded as the rantings of a cannabis-head........

Go ahead

Well I could "prove" to you that the Aten is the supreme ruler or "God" of this world.....but that is on some other shit....

I'd like to hear it

 

[bambu]

^^^ Another thread my friend.....

I would like to focus on the evolution sciences here....

Told you this topic puts me in the religion camp...

I actually cosign DoUwant2go2Heaven? on this one.....

please let me know what you thought about the small boy electric story....

When I was a theist, I would have probably given him the same answer. What do you think about it?

I think it provides "evidence" for Dr. Rushton's theories......

You will have to excuse me.... I am a scholar, so I tend to revolve around the academic evidence associated with this argument.... and Dr. Jones is one of your best and brightest......

He detailed the "evolution" of the races concerning the AIDS virus, and "proved" that the European was more evolved, while the African was more closely related to the chimpanzee......

Most people would have missed that bit, but we can see how that pretty much establishes the research of individuals like the Pioneer Fund......

And I nosign shit like that....

With "mainstream" science and academia providing this foundation......

The work of the pioneer fund should not be viewed as junk science..........

 

[bambu]

@Gold_Certificate & @Vibe.....

You're not in a position to be calling niggas out round these parts.......

Onus probandi – from Latin "onus probandi incumbit ei qui dicit, non ei qui negat" the burden of proof is on the person who makes the claim, not on the person who denies (or questions the claim). It is a particular case of the "argumentum ad ignorantiam" fallacy, here the burden is shifted on the person defending against the assertion.

What claim did I make that requires support?

They have.

Diane Dodd's fruit fly experiment observed that isolation of fruit flies and the changing their food resulted in reproductive isolation after 35 generations; which demonstrates a form of allopatric speciation.

The ongoing "E. coli long-term evolution" experiment has tracked genetic changes in over 50,000 generations of 12 initially-identical populations of E. Coli; some of which were larger cells in all groups, defects in 4 groups' DNA repair, the ability to metabolize citrate in one group, and an average of 10-20 fixated beneficial mutations per population.

So, plenty have observed bacteria and fruit flies macroevolve; not to mention the easily-observable microevolution.

This is the sort of result we'd expect, if allopatric speciation were a typical mode of speciation.

Diane Dodd’s fruit fly experiment suggests that isolating populations in different environments (e.g., with different food sources) can lead to the beginning of reproductive isolation. These results are consistent with the idea that geographic isolation is an important step of some speciation events.

I did not claim this. It is a quote you posted, and it refers to the expectations of whoever wrote it.

The experiments only showed that these creatures have practical limits to the amount of genetic change they can tolerate. When those limits are breached, the creatures don't evolve—they just die.

LOL...Really???

These claims are false....As I have already shown, no new species has been observed in any research....

Your evolutionary terminology describes change over time/biological mutation, which is universally accepted and not in question here....

Today's topic is the origins of species.....

So for your experiments to observe macro-evolution, the scientists would have begun with Drosophila melanogaster (common fruit fly) and ended with a new or evolved species......

Shits not gonna happen B.....

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[whar]

He detailed the "evolution" of the races concerning AIDS, and "proved" that the European was more evolved, while the African was more closely related to the chimpanzee......

They only thing he mentioned is the presence of genes that help resist the HIV. He mentioned that chimps have a similar virus and similar genes. He then observed that Europeans have 3 resistant genes on average, Africans 6, and chimps 9. Finally he brought up the point that human can circumvent evolution (perhaps not the best phrase) by awareness. In the case of HIV they can learn about the causes and avoid getting the disease in the first place. He pointed out that Botswana had reduce the transmission rate by 50% through an education program.

Differences do exists amongst population of humans. Asians populations tend to be lactose intolerant. African population tend to have heart conditions earlier than other populations. However intelligence, aggression, and human behavior has been shown to be distributed across human populations evenly. Anyone stating Africans are more aggressive or Asian are smarter simply does not have the data on their side. These are the primary issues Rushton brings up and he has been shown to have been wrong.

 

[whar]

"The experiments only showed that these creatures have practical limits to the amount of genetic change they can tolerate. When those limits are breached, the creatures don't evolve—they just die."

Any individual creature has a limit to change however from generation to generation this limit refreshes. An offspring can vary slightly from its parents. In turn this offspring becomes a parent and its offspring can vary slightly from him. Each generation producing offspring with slight variation. Macro evolution is the accumulation of these small steps for 100,000s of generations. Even though each step an individual generation may have taken is quite small the accumulation of millions of years worth of these steps produce large changes.

 

[Gold_Certificate]

@Gold_Certificate & @Vibe.....

You're not in a position to be calling niggas out round these parts.......

Onus probandi – from Latin "onus probandi incumbit ei qui dicit, non ei qui negat" the burden of proof is on the person who makes the claim, not on the person who denies (or questions the claim). It is a particular case of the "argumentum ad ignorantiam" fallacy, here the burden is shifted on the person defending against the assertion.

What claim did I make that requires support?

They have.

Diane Dodd's fruit fly experiment observed that isolation of fruit flies and the changing their food resulted in reproductive isolation after 35 generations; which demonstrates a form of allopatric speciation.

The ongoing "E. coli long-term evolution" experiment has tracked genetic changes in over 50,000 generations of 12 initially-identical populations of E. Coli; some of which were larger cells in all groups, defects in 4 groups' DNA repair, the ability to metabolize citrate in one group, and an average of 10-20 fixated beneficial mutations per population.

So, plenty have observed bacteria and fruit flies macroevolve; not to mention the easily-observable microevolution.

This is the sort of result we'd expect, if allopatric speciation were a typical mode of speciation.

Diane Dodd’s fruit fly experiment suggests that isolating populations in different environments (e.g., with different food sources) can lead to the beginning of reproductive isolation. These results are consistent with the idea that geographic isolation is an important step of some speciation events.

I did not claim this. It is a quote you posted, and it refers to the expectations of whoever wrote it.

The experiments only showed that these creatures have practical limits to the amount of genetic change they can tolerate. When those limits are breached, the creatures don't evolve—they just die.

LOL...Really???

These claims are false....As I have already shown, no new species has been observed in any research....

Your evolutionary terminology describes change over time/biological mutation, which is universally accepted and not in question here....

Today's topic is the origins of species.....

So for your experiments to observe macro-evolution, the scientists would have begun with Drosophila melanogaster (common fruit fly) and ended with a new or evolved species......

Allopatric speciation is speciation that occurs due to a physical barrier that arises between populations of the same species. There was a physical barrier in the fruit fly experiment. Allopatric speciation has occurred if, as a result of generations of separation, the populations are reproductively-isolated and no longer reproduce together. The maltose and starch fruit fly populations no longer reproduced together at the end of the experiment.

I said this "demonstrates a form of allopatric speciation"; which it does.

If you are able to refute it, go ahead.

If not, there is no need for you to respond, since you already acknowledge that biological evolution occurs.

 

[bambu]

@Whar.....

He detailed the "evolution" of the races concerning AIDS, and "proved" that the European was more evolved, while the African was more closely related to the chimpanzee......

They only thing he mentioned is the presence of genes that help resist the HIV. He mentioned that chimps have a similar virus and similar genes. He then observed that Europeans have 3 resistant genes on average, Africans 6, and chimps 9.

Exactly.....

"The experiments only showed that these creatures have practical limits to the amount of genetic change they can tolerate. When those limits are breached, the creatures don't evolve—they just die."

Any individual creature has a limit to change however from generation to generation this limit refreshes. An offspring can vary slightly from its parents. In turn this offspring becomes a parent and its offspring can vary slightly from him. Each generation producing offspring with slight variation. Macro evolution is the accumulation of these small steps for 100,000s of generations. Even though each step an individual generation may have taken is quite small the accumulation of millions of years worth of these steps produce large changes.

Again Sir..... No new or different species.......