Idiopathic Joker
Moderator
I don't know why people think Cena buries everybody. He put over Punk
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Peezy_Jenkins
New member
people just give cena a hard time in general, miz too to a lesser extent, of course i can see why sometimes but it goes too far
VIBE;6941712 said:How will MITB work now?
Only one title to really go for.
Divas need a MITB match.
Money in the bank is in Boston this ,wonder what they going to do with john cena.
Max.;6943530 said:Whatever happen to hardcore matches
PG era and Linda McMahon
BeleeDatPleighboy
New member
iron man1;6945349 said:maaan fuck all that bring back first blood matches, backstage brawls, bra an pantie matches, street fights, and hardcore matches which was said already. The talent is there it's just bogged down by the damn kid angles.
I think they could do it...Raw and Smackdown are two hr shows....make first hour PG. Second hr tv14 or MA
dalyricalbandit
Moderator
Man i know Vince a dicking Linda down nomore son needs to dead that bitch costing him money.
i know WWE has sponsors but shit we want
T&A
Hardcore matches (looking back the Hardcore title wasnt even extreme it was more Comedy than anything which would be ok now days but the head shots i guess wont allow them to)
Linda running for office done fucked up alot of shit, cost Vince bread and if she ever did make it would just screw up WWE more
i know WWE has sponsors but shit we want
T&A
Hardcore matches (looking back the Hardcore title wasnt even extreme it was more Comedy than anything which would be ok now days but the head shots i guess wont allow them to)
Linda running for office done fucked up alot of shit, cost Vince bread and if she ever did make it would just screw up WWE more
Chris Nowitski fucked up the game too though. Doing all that research on concussions and head shots in wrestling/sports, of course Chris Benoit didnt help matters at all either.
Being straight up, I'm glad that the hardcore title is gone. It was a waste of time and talent. Most of those guys wrestling for that title weren't even over and after seeing hardcore matches on every show they got boring as fuck.
They just need to build the midcard and give people a reason to care about those guys, doing stupid gimmick matches won't change anything.
Being straight up, I'm glad that the hardcore title is gone. It was a waste of time and talent. Most of those guys wrestling for that title weren't even over and after seeing hardcore matches on every show they got boring as fuck.
They just need to build the midcard and give people a reason to care about those guys, doing stupid gimmick matches won't change anything.
Peezy_Jenkins
New member
word, seeing raven in hardcore matches wasnt quite like raven in ecw, or even ravens rules in wcw, hardcore division always had a slight feel of corniness and being watered down
Raven is one of my favorite guys in the business. Hes a genius but he was totally wasted in tht crappy hardcore division.
Dude could have done so much more in the way of storylines and work if he was given the chance.
That hardcore title was just somewhere for Vince to stick old ECW guys and WWE guys that were irrelevant.
There were probably 5-10 good hardcore title matches in the history of that belt, if that many. And that's not a lot once you consider they had sometimes two-three of those matches a week.
Dude could have done so much more in the way of storylines and work if he was given the chance.
That hardcore title was just somewhere for Vince to stick old ECW guys and WWE guys that were irrelevant.
There were probably 5-10 good hardcore title matches in the history of that belt, if that many. And that's not a lot once you consider they had sometimes two-three of those matches a week.
eyes low;6947608 said:i rather see the cruiserweight belt comeback before the hardcore
They need this division badly.
DOPEdweebz
New member
PanchoYoSancho;6942013 said:Broddie;6942006 said:iKingGodGivBiz;6941403 said:@Broddie
I disagree bout Dolph tho. I mean Dolph does need to find a catchphrass but after I seen him beat Randy Orton with the superkick at Survivor Series I always believed he could be a superstar, but when the WWE writers book u shitty and have no advanced foresight for you through storylines, than 50% of the damage done to Dolph is clearly out of his hands.
Dolph needs to be Ken and Seth needs to be his Ryu imo.
This is going to be a long post cause it will be my last word on Dolph Ziggler. So bear with me and indulge me a bit.
I'm going to be honest I gave the guy a chance. But I just don't see it. One thing I could say is that he sells exceptionally well; but that's what makes a good jobber and that doesn't help him for that reason. All that does is enable to the officials to use you to make the next man look like a million bucks. It kills me as a fan that he doesn't seem to understand that cause it's a really big handicap.
He's been playing this character for the last 5 years. Given different titles. Given a stable; and pushed up the card last year. Yet the only thing the audience could still really remember about him mostly is his failures. That's not a good character.
The guy should probably get a repackage. Coming out and fiddling with his bleached noodle hair in his pink shirts and turquoise trunks isn't enough to stand out. You need to have character that really breaks out if you want to really get out there like that. Like a CM Punk or Chris Jericho. Charisma could only get you so far. You need to be an eloquent talker and really create a mystique and presence around you when performing in the ring. This is what helped the Rocky Maivias and Ringmaster Steve Austins of the past overcome shitty gimmicks and break fresh new ones successfully.
The fact that he can't talk and still hasn't learned how to find a good voice and cut exceptional promos on the fly like those guys is kinda sad considering he's been in WWE for 9 years. He's had more than enough examples and agents to help him get better. Hell he could go down to the performance center now and record promos for practice. Yet all he does is complain like he's some hot shit on twitter but coming up short on the product. Believing the hype that the neckbeards and fans that see potential in him always bestow upon him but never living up to it with his actual work.
Another big problem I have with him is that again he doesn't know how to get anything that's thrown at him over. Daniel Bryan was stuck doing one of the lamest most childlike things ever with the Kane/Therapist story. Shit was wack and he STILL managed to get it over and help it evolve his character. He made the best of a bad situation. Cesaro managed to overcome a damn yodeling gimmick because true talent will always shine on.
Like Dolph, Cesaro has mic issues but he's figured out ways around that by showing off his dynamic offense not defense like Dolph always does. He's created a mystique around him you don't know what he'll do next in a match. He's a true showman. There is always something fresh because he's always expanding his arsenal. That's something Dolph could actually learn to do. Switch up his offense. Worse yet in 9 years with the company it's something he should already know.
Cesaro has been doing that since the indy days. One minute Cesaro introduces the swing, the next he's doing the flying kick into the ring as well on Raw. I'm familiar enough with Claudio Castagnoli to know that he hasn't even shown his best tricks yet. He still hasn't even introduced the UFO or Ricola Bomb on WWE TV yet. There is room for growth and that creates versatility. Someone like Ziggler who can't really talk and only depends strictly on misplaced charisma should take note and this is why Cesaro has surpassed him on the card.
I really tried to give Dolph Ziggler a chance. In the end nothing about the guy is truly exceptional outside of his selling. His look is lame as fuck. He doesn't back up any of his braggadocios shooting on twitter and interviews. The only people who see something in him besides contrarian neckbeards are guys that have been rooting for him for years out of pity almost it seems.
One thing I realized in the 2 years I've been watching the WWE product again is that some guys are either just too complacent or not well rounded enough to be anything but midcard for life. This applies almost to the entire 2008 - 2011 cast of newcomers like Ziggler, Sheamus, Alberto Del Rio, The Miz, Tyson Kidd, David Otunga, Wade Barrett, Ryback and Kofi Kingston.
I could count the exceptions that went about the right way like Daniel Bryan, Cesaro or Bray Wyatt (remember Husky Harris?) in one hand. Sandow is another exception sadly they're fucking with him right now. Outside of those 3 they're all interchangeable and expendable. None is truly exceptional.
Thankfully you can't say that about the generation that's coming up after them. This is the best the product has been in years and it's mostly due to all of HHH and Steph's pet projects (I.E. The Shield, Rusev, Luke Harper, Paige) panning out because those performers step up to the plate and deliver when asked without fault.
They have that extra "oomph" that creates the IT factor that people like Dolph Ziggler could only dream of having. There is more talent like that down in the farm system right now too. Most notably Sami Zayn (El Generico). What happens when he's finally called up?
All that does is create more problems for people like Dolph in the end because these people will take his place on the card due to that and you know what; it's well deserved. Unlike Dolph they earn it by backing it up with their performance and knowing how to keep their mouths shut.
Well damn
At the end of the day WWE pushes you with a world title reign failure or not if WWe wants too. Cena been garbage for 7 years character wise. He's bland and gets sucked in stupid and forgettable angles also. Hes really not doing anything better than Dolph besides politicking and "selling merchandise".
So if you want to get at him for not being smart enough to create a "chants","selling merchandise", or "kissing ass" fine.
At the end of the day you can do all the right things and skeptics and opinionsts will find something wrong and excuses as revisionist for why someone didnt make it.
Remember the dirtsheets kept saying Shelton Benjamin was "complacent", and "didnt want it?"
Can we prove that either way ? No but to someone who doesnt accepts eveything being told to them it was the truth even tho Shelton never said it himself. Did MVP not want it too? Morrison? Cody Rhodes?
The truth that theory is bullshit.
Sid had no mic skills, 2 time WWf champ. Yokozuna most kids born in the 90s dont even know hes was a champion for two years. Tatanka was undefeated for like two years then out of nowhere made him to sonme Russuan guy n made him turn heel vs Luger in complete shit.
Mohammed Hassan was over as shit. WWE coulda easily repackaged him but got lazy n left himin OVW again til he quit.
Umaga was over as fuck in 2006 and they built him up just to job to Cena.
Lashley also.
At the end its all bullshit and politics, why you think Triple H is a 14 time champ even tho his prime work was basically from 98-2002?
Swagger was world champ on Smackdown but was never as overas heel as Heidenreich was as a heel or face.
Matt Hardy was as over in 2008 on smackdown as anyond but he never got the chance Jeff did the following year? Remember his feud with MVP? He was DDP 98 over.
Miz was world champion. Think about that.
DOPEdweebz
New member
Part 2..
When its illogical, I dont try to make logic out of it. Its out of my hands.
If Cesaro never becones WWE champion how are revisionists gonna claim the reasons for him not winning it?
No mic skills? Didnt move enough merchandise? He was hot duriing so and so but then became bland? No mythical "It" factor.
Why we always try to regurigitate what the dirtsheets try to tell us as rationale, instead of being truthful about it.
"So and so didnt get the promotion, simply cuz the boss doesnt like so and so that much to give them the promotion no matter what they do or how good they are at it. Plain and simple".
Thats how life is
When its illogical, I dont try to make logic out of it. Its out of my hands.
If Cesaro never becones WWE champion how are revisionists gonna claim the reasons for him not winning it?
No mic skills? Didnt move enough merchandise? He was hot duriing so and so but then became bland? No mythical "It" factor.
Why we always try to regurigitate what the dirtsheets try to tell us as rationale, instead of being truthful about it.
"So and so didnt get the promotion, simply cuz the boss doesnt like so and so that much to give them the promotion no matter what they do or how good they are at it. Plain and simple".
Thats how life is
DOPEdweebz
New member
P.S. Dont Scott Hall, Cesaro, WWE. Scott Hall was too over in 95 to just be main eventing with the main eventers, Cesaro is on his way there soon.
I don't regurgitate dirtsheet shit it is just a simple observation from watching Dolph Ziggler for the last 2 and a half years.
You bring up Miz someone who isn't even in the undercard at this point. Know why Miz got a run? cause he stepped to Vince himself and asked for the opportunity on a plane ride. He didn't complain on twitter or in interviews about being buried and not being where he needs to be on the card like Dolph. He took initiative and stepped to the boss himself. So Vince gave him the brass ring. Then Miz proved that he couldn't run with it. So now he's back where he belongs.
Even if it is all about politics as you speculate then Dolph should be smart enough to know that running his mouth all the time any chance he gets isn't politically wise. The guy is just clueless about how to maneuver around in that business when it comes to wanting to climb up the card.
I can't speak for those other guys cause I wasn't watching WWE when any of them were there. But I will say that the difference between Dolph and Cena is night and day. Cena got himself over with anything they threw at him and kept himself over. Dolph hasn't. Cena proved he could cut a promo. Dolph hasn't. Cena has put acclaimed match of the night contenders together throughout any given year. Dolph hasn't. It ain't hard to tell why Cena is where he is and Ziggler is where he's at.
You bring up Miz someone who isn't even in the undercard at this point. Know why Miz got a run? cause he stepped to Vince himself and asked for the opportunity on a plane ride. He didn't complain on twitter or in interviews about being buried and not being where he needs to be on the card like Dolph. He took initiative and stepped to the boss himself. So Vince gave him the brass ring. Then Miz proved that he couldn't run with it. So now he's back where he belongs.
Even if it is all about politics as you speculate then Dolph should be smart enough to know that running his mouth all the time any chance he gets isn't politically wise. The guy is just clueless about how to maneuver around in that business when it comes to wanting to climb up the card.
I can't speak for those other guys cause I wasn't watching WWE when any of them were there. But I will say that the difference between Dolph and Cena is night and day. Cena got himself over with anything they threw at him and kept himself over. Dolph hasn't. Cena proved he could cut a promo. Dolph hasn't. Cena has put acclaimed match of the night contenders together throughout any given year. Dolph hasn't. It ain't hard to tell why Cena is where he is and Ziggler is where he's at.
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VIBE;6947830 said:eyes low;6947608 said:i rather see the cruiserweight belt comeback before the hardcore
They need this division badly.
No they don't. Think about what you're saying here. If they bring back the cruiserweight division then Daniel Bryan has no business being a main eventer anymore because they'll just throw him in that division. Sami Zayn won't even get a chance when he's finally called back up (which will be soon). Things are better off how they are now where everybody gets a fair chance to work their way up regardless of weight class.
Peezy_Jenkins
New member
i would say that miz did his part in terms of getting heat as a heel, i dont think his title reign was that huge of a fail, he did even better work afterwards with truth, imo.
The problem with Dolph is simple: WWE just doesn't care about him. Regardless of what complaints some may have its that simple.
They put zero emphasis or effort into his character or promoting him. He has no merch other than the pink shirt, he doesn't get to wrestle 15-20 minute matches, he doesn't get to cut promos and yet he is STILL over and gets huge pops when he comes out and has been for 3 years.
He comes out, flops around and gets pinned...he's the white Kofi Kingston.
There would be more complaints about Dolph's position if WWE didnt have such a hot group of guys other than him right now. Shield (3 guys), Cesaro and Bryan. Dolph was over before all of them. The difference is that they put some effort into Bryan and Shield which got them over, Cesaro got saddled with a stupid gimmick (The Real Americans) but managed to get over so he deserves this spotlight right now.
Dolph just not that important right now, HHH got some pet projects he bringing up from NXT, you still got Sheamus and Cena to account for as main event guys, the Punk situation is still up in the air, there's just a lot going on.
They put zero emphasis or effort into his character or promoting him. He has no merch other than the pink shirt, he doesn't get to wrestle 15-20 minute matches, he doesn't get to cut promos and yet he is STILL over and gets huge pops when he comes out and has been for 3 years.
He comes out, flops around and gets pinned...he's the white Kofi Kingston.
There would be more complaints about Dolph's position if WWE didnt have such a hot group of guys other than him right now. Shield (3 guys), Cesaro and Bryan. Dolph was over before all of them. The difference is that they put some effort into Bryan and Shield which got them over, Cesaro got saddled with a stupid gimmick (The Real Americans) but managed to get over so he deserves this spotlight right now.
Dolph just not that important right now, HHH got some pet projects he bringing up from NXT, you still got Sheamus and Cena to account for as main event guys, the Punk situation is still up in the air, there's just a lot going on.
